Go watch Best of the Best if you want that.
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It was a troll job, but half rooted in truth. How many times have we seen an above average kickboxer(or in this case a karateka) make the move to MMA and never hold a meaningful title? It's great that everyone is getting their nut by running away on another hype train, but let's take a moment to look at who's footsteps he's following in:
Michael Page
Cyrille Diabate
Allistair Overeem
Mirko Cro Cop
Pat Barry
Mark Hunt
Antoni Hardonk
Dennis Siver
Cung Le
Melvin Manhoef
Semmy Schilt
Bob Sapp
Stephen Thomson
Donald Cerrone
Now granted, some of those may pan out(Cerrone), but by and large they've mostly flopped in mma. There's just too much more to the game.
You're killing me, man. "Mostly flopped in MMA?" Why, because they didn't become champ? Nearly everyone you have mentioned has carved out a very respectable career in MMA. The fuck are you even saying here? I literally can't believe this list you put together. Did someone hack your account?
I love how it starts with Michael Page who is 8-0 with three Bellator wins. And Overeem, Cropcop, Hunt, Siver, Cung Le, Menhoef, Thompson? Is THIS also a troll job?
You consider Manhoef, Siver, and Hunt to be largely successful in mma? Are you having a stroke? Should we call the amber lamps? Manhoef's single greatest achievement in the sport is the time he knocked out Sakuraba about 6 years past Saku's prime. Hunt's career wasn't even a fucking footnote until he was able to go 5-3-1 and bring his career to 10-10-1 all time. Dennis Siver popped for banned substances enroute to a 10-5-1 ufc career in which his best win was over a hype train from australia.
The context of the conversation was that he'd never be champion. And thus, in that context, yes to not win gold in a solid organization would qualify as "flopping". He looked great against a 33 year old with 13 fights prior to that, who coincidentally showed up 4lbs over weight, but we should really reign in the fellatio until he beats someone who doesn't qualify as a wikipedia red name. What do you say?
Jesus Christ, the guy beats a dented can and X is saying he'll be champ someday. Lets see him fight someone with a heart beat first.
My point is this, almost no fighters will ever be champ. You can't say "mostly flopped in MMA" just because they didn't get a belt, even within the context of the conversation. That wording is just all wrong.
You're right that Manhoef's chin sucks, but he has still managed to carve out a really nice career for himself. And yes, I consider Siver a really solid fighter. No, he doesn't win 'em all, but he's still been in the UFC for 8 (!!!) years! That is a successful mixed martial artist. Crocop? Fucking legend. Cerrone? Always mere feet away from a belt. Cung Le actually was SF champ for a little while. So on and so forth.
If you're point is that a lot of hotshot kickboxers have come into MMA and failed to win titles, fine, but don't act like most of those guys you listed haven't done really well for themselves in the sport.
Trevino was 12-1. Did he need to be undefeated for you to give him some respect?
And I'm not saying he WILL be champ. I'm saying he VERY WELL COULD BE champ. He has all the tools. He's a karate champion. He wrestled in college. He's fast as fuck. He's only 19 and has a TON of time to improve. And he's really good looking.
I don't see any reason to not at least consider him a prospective title holder one day.
Please read the whole thread for context.
Lyoto Machida and Georges st Pierre. Both karate fighters.
Also, Stephen Thompson is really good. Sage Northcutt has a better chance than most of becoming champion.
Sure, but that's all part of speculating about prospects. Obviously no one knows what's going to happen. But you identify those young bucks who seem to have the raw tools to become something special. I think Sage is among the leaders of that pack.
In fact, you have talked a lot about championship hopes are misplaced with him. My question for you then is who do you have in front of him? What other prospects do you have your eye on?
On the JRE he said it was his karate that allowed him to get in on opponents:
Quote:
That's what I use for my takedown, the shoot, that people see, it's zero wrestling. It has nothing to do with my wrestling. My wrestling is once I get that leg, I'll finish the takedown. But how I get in and out is because of karate.
People are like, ‘no way, Karate, no.' And I'm like, 'yes.' Karate allows me to cut the distance and take the people down. I have a very good single, a very good double and very good penetration. It's because of my leg, the way I do it, and the timing is because of my karate. I wrestle, too, but my karate is primary. Before I started wrestling, I was a karate guy pure.
In that case:
Will Brooks
Michael Chandler
David Rickels
Dave Jansen
Lowen Tynanes
Koji Ando
Also, Poirier is only 26. I don't know that I would rule him out just because he's been busy. Kind of like Stefan Struve. He may be a veteran by definition of cage time in the UFC, but the kid is still learning shit every day, and still improving every fight.
I agree Northcutt is a legit prospect, but to Ludo's point you can't count out guys making incremental improvements.
Look at RDA, a low-key middling almost-journeyman fighter who quietly improves fight-to-fight until one day he kicks Ben Henderson's head off and you say oh shit this dude is a badass all of a sudden. Then he bends Nate Diaz over, pulls his pants down, and literally fucks him in the ass in the middle of the cage. He follows this up by inserting his big, brown, Brazilian monkey wrench all up into Pretty Tony Pettis' Wheaties box and crushes his perceived long championship reign.
I'm not counting them out. I'm just saying if we're having a conversation about "prospects" then guys like that don't qualify. Northcutt is a prospect. Michael Page is still a prospect. I'm talking about guys who are still relatively new to the sport, not guys who have been fighting for years.
Ludo put Michael fucking Chandler on his revised list. Michael Chandler is 29, has 16 pro fights and is a former champion in a major organization. That is not a prospect. He's a guy who may very well have already passed the mid-point of his career.
And obviously it's not that those can't can do some serious shit over the next handful of years, it's just not the conversation that we're having.
Sage with Hughes. Hughes looks old.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CS1hNSOU8AAzNFa.jpg
You specified lightweight prospect, then changed the rules to guys who had <5 fights in the UFC, or had never fought in the UFC. Chandler is still very much a prospect, because while he has 16 fights who the fuck has he fought other than a washed up Ghono, Alvarez, and other exciting young fighters?
Can we put this nonsense to bed now?
2-0!!!!!!!!!!
But for real, he's 19 and new to the sport and still pretty raw. He got taken down almost immediately, which was kind of surprising, but I think that was just lack of experience. What concerns me more is the way he barely looked like he knew what he was doing off his back. He was trying to shrimp out and shit, but he wasn't doing a very good job of it and who knows how long he'd have been down there if the ref hadn't stood them up. Would he have been down there all round?
In any case, once he got back to his feet he went into beast mode and finished the fight soon after. So don't act like he lost or even like it ended up being some close decision.