Karo V Hazelett cancelled; Karo permanently out of the UFC

[Natural Born Thriller]

Touchy subject for Zak, his brother and cousin. His cousin OD a few years back. His brother had a struggle for a long time.

[Natural Born Thriller]

Maybe easy to stop for some maybe, but not for most.

[SPX]

Maybe easy to stop for some maybe, but not for most.

Exactly. Everyone's different. Just because YOU can do something doesn't mean someone else can. Humans aren't made from cookie cutters and everyone's psychological makeup is different, imbuing us with a wide range of strengths, weaknesses and abilities.

[Luke]

LOL I'm not going to argue this anymore, but just know that you are completely and utterly wrong.

I'm utterly and completely wrong because you said so lol

I guess I'm wrong .Even if he wanted to quit pills he couldnt because the pills would make him take them

[Luke]

Maybe easy to stop for some maybe, but not for most.

Exactly. Everyone's different. Just because YOU can do something doesn't mean someone else can. Humans aren't made from cookie cutters and everyone's psychological makeup is different, imbuing us with a wide range of strengths, weaknesses and abilities.

If some people can quit easily how do you know I'm 100% wrong? How do you know that he really wants to quit these pills? How do you know that he doesnt like the high he gets everyday and doesnt want to lose that the rest of his life?

You are 100% I'm wrong but cant answer these questions

Oh and we can discuss this all night because I'm not going to get mad just because you guys dont agree with me .We cant agree on everything but that doesnt mean we can't dicuss things

From my experience 90% of addicts dont want to quit because they like the high and dont want to lose it

[Luke]

But 10% do want to quit

[Luke]

Touchy subject for Zak, his brother and cousin. His cousin OD a few years back. His brother had a struggle for a long time.

My brother takes a bunch of oxy and vicodin and all his friends do that I hang around so I also have first hand experience .He flat out told me once he doesnt want to quit because he likes the way they make him feel .I'm 100% sure though if they didnt make him high he'd quit them in a second even though he's addicted because they would no longer do anything for him

[zY|]

Cmon man, seriously?

After awhile, you don't even take them to get high, you do it to feel normal. If anyone can "just quit", they aren't addicted in the first place. Opiate addiction is no mental thing. Opiate withdrawal is horrifying, with extreme physical symptoms that can last weeks or months.

Most opiates only stay in your system to show up on a drug test for a week or less, so it's retarded to say that he can't help himself "from getting high" a week before the fight. No, it's because he doesn't want to get his ass beat in the middle of withdrawals.

[Luke]

Cmon man, seriously?

After awhile, you don't even take them to get high, you do it to feel normal. If anyone can "just quit", they aren't addicted in the first place. Opiate addiction is no mental thing. Opiate withdrawal is horrifying, with extreme physical symptoms that can last weeks or months.

Most opiates only stay in your system to show up on a drug test for a week or less, so it's retarded to say that he can't help himself "from getting high" a week before the fight. No, it's because he doesn't want to get his ass beat in the middle of withdrawals.

Those were my brothers exact words "because I like the way they make me feel" .Now maybe you're right he doesnt do them to get high he does them to feel right or normal but I took it as he liked getting high off them.I cant tell you for sure because its not me and I have never taken pills .

Well once I took like 4 muscle relaxers while I was drinking and couldnt even stay upright but thats another story

[SPX]

I cant tell you for sure because its not me and I have never taken pills .

I honestly think this has a lot to do with it. Those who don't have a lot of experience doing drugs are always full of judgement of those who are under their spell.

Shit happens. People get roped in. There is such a thing as recreational use and sometimes that turns into something else before you even know it. I left all this judgmentalism behind when I left Christianity behind. Not to say that I can't still be a dickhead, but I'm a lot more aware of the way in which people can differ everyone's challenges in life are unique.

[Mr. IWS]

OK, here’s my 2 cents on it:

Before, I felt exactly how Luke did. It didn’t make any sense to me, that you can’t just stop. I mean, if you were on a deserted island by yourself, with no pills, you could stop, you would have to right? But I can’t relate, because I’ve never been in that situation, I never drank, smoked, got high, anything. I just never did it.

Let me tell you about my cousin. I grew up with him, I spent every summer at my aunts because the neighborhood I lived in was so bad. We were the same people, like twin brothers. We got older, grew apart a little bit, and he started fucking around with heroin. I watched this kid become a different person. He wanted to stop, he would try, but he just couldn’t do it. A couple years later, he got a bad batch and died in front of his daughter.

On to my brother. We got a long as good as two brothers could. I watched him start smoking week, and on to pills. He is a strong willed a person as you will find. He was burnt by a big pot of boiling water when he was 3 years old, because my pilled out Mom wasn’t paying attention to him. He has giant scars all over his upper body from the skin graphs/burns but he got through it, and he just pressed on, no big deal, he got through it after they told my mom he was going to die. Yet, the will he had, he couldn’t get off these fuckin pills. He would tell me, he could see how disappointed I was in him, he would tell me that he is trying. he went to rehab, got clean, got his own place, job, only to fall right back in the cycle. He couldn’t get off them for years.

Finally, he got a good job, a new religion (he is a Muslim now, white kid from Philly is a Muslim…LOL) and a new girlfriend, and he FINALLY seems like he has his shit together. He tells me that what he needed was a rigorous structure to keep him busy so he wouldn’t get high. He works his ass off all day, does his Muslim thing, and spends some time with his girl, and right back to it the next day. It’s a grind, but he tells me it saved his life.

Sorry for the rant, but what I’m saying is, I’ve watched it happen. Its fuckin hard to get off this shit. I don’t know firsthand, because I’ve never done it, but I watched two of the guys I loved more than anyone else in my family go through it. They tried over and over to stop. One is dead, one is doing pretty good. It’s hard for people to just quit cold turkey, it takes years to finally beat it, they have to keep fighting. If Karo wants to beat it, he just has to keep trying, even after he relapses, he has to get back on the horse, so to speak, and keep trying.

Carry on.

[Mr. IWS]

I left all this judgmentalism behind when I left Christianity behind.

You comfortable discussing that? Im no "holy roller" by any means, but Im starting to explore religion a bit more, and Im curious.

[SPX]

Sounds like you got a pretty good grip on how things can be, Zak. Also, addictions can be both physical and psychological, sometimes both. I've known plenty of addicts and have dealt with some of my own shit. My stepdad's an alcoholic. I grew up with him that way, and thankfully he never was a mean drunk, but clearly that shit had a hold of him. He quit for about 10 years and then just a couple of years ago out of the blue started drinking again. My mom's a pill junkie who would always get fucked up on Xanax and shit. Not only that, she's just a little off psychologically since she's a manic depressive. She's doing a lot better these days, but I'm sure she's not 100% straight. And I also have a good friend who was into all kinds of shit--alcohol, cocaine, crack, meth. . . He would just do whatever. To support his addiction he started breaking into houses and doing all sorts of shady shit. Finally he got out of that life and is now in AA and trying to do the best he can.

I've heard so many times about how having a routine is really the key to staying clean. You have to get into a groove of getting up, going to work, going to the gym, maybe taking up some classes at the community college, coming home to spend time with the gf/wife and kids if you got 'em.

A lot of time's it's so easy to think that everyone should be just like you . . . that if you're strong in an area then everyone else should be too, or if you are able to do something then everyone else should be too, or whatever. That's just not always the case.

[SPX]

You comfortable discussing that? Im no "holy roller" by any means, but Im starting to explore religion a bit more, and Im curious.

Oh, yeah. I'm always up for a good religion discussion.

I was raised in a conservative Baptist home down South. In church three times a week. That sort of thing. Around 14 or 15 I began to really take the initiative to study my faith and personally devote myself to it. I really started to pick up the Bible and read it for the first time and not just take the word of others that it said what they said it did. I got pretty hardcore and eventually delved into the study of apologetics, which is basically a field of study which evaluates the evidence in support of the Christian faith. For a while, I was very convinced in the arguments for Christianity and thought the evidence was pretty overwhelming. However, after continuing to read the Bible, and study science, and really just observe the world around me, I began to have doubts. In time, I began to collect too many intellectual and philosophical arguments against the Bible, against Christianity, against God to continue to believe. In fact, I now have a lot of problems with the God of all the monotheistic religions, whether it's Christianity, Islam, or Judaism. He's really not a very nice character at all.

With that said, I still think there could be some truth to it somewhere and I'm open to the possibility of the supernatural in the world. Science can tell us a lot of things but it can't tell us how we got here. Even if the big bang really occurred, even if we are what we are today because of the process of evolution, we still don't know where the very first elemental molucules of the universe came from. Also, I've done a good bit of reading on the subject of things like near-death experiences and the like and I think there's enough evidence to leave the door open for some kind of creator and some kind of afterlife as well.

[Mr. IWS]

good stuff SPX.

My buddy has a Christian Radio show I listen to every monday on the internet. He brings up some good points. Then I have my brother, who is a Muslim, bring up some good points that make the debate very interested.

[SPX]

good stuff SPX.

My buddy has a Christian Radio show I listen to every monday on the internet. He brings up some good points. Then I have my brother, who is a Muslim, bring up some good points that make the debate very interested.

I eventually decided that I just couldn't follow a God who create millions of people, allow them live in suffering, and then sentence the majority of them to eternal hell when it was all said and done.

I have looked into "universalist" Christianity, which basically uses the Bible to make the case that in the end everyone will be saved and reconciled to God, but many of the same issues still remain unresolved.

[Luke]

.

I eventually decided that I just couldn't follow a God who create millions of people, allow them live in suffering, and then sentence the majority of them to eternal hell when it was all said and done.
.

Thats kind of how I feel .I went to church twice a week with my parents until I was 16 and then I made sure work scheduled me on Sunday just so I didnt have to go.I was 16 and church wasnt "cool" .I had every intention of going back to chucrh when I got older and then something happened, I got the worst luck in the world. Not in sportsbetting just in life . It seem like whenever one thing resolves itself another bad thing is waiting to happen.


It seems like its always something .I tore the ligments in my ankle and before they were even healed I had a probelm with my intestine that before that even healed I tore the ligamnets in my ankle again.6 weeks later my ankle almost heals and I got a herniated disk in my back .Now I have been dealing with a bad back for almost the past year and I just went to the dermatologist this week and he thinks I have skin cancer .It just seems like it never ends .Now if I do have skin cancer I'm going to have to worry the rest of my life everytime I get a zit if its cancer or just a pimple. Why would a god that loves us so much put us through this shit?
Why if someone loved us so much would he put me ,zak and you spx through all this shit in our lives and let people like Paris Hilton be born into riches and never have to do anything for it?

I think there is a god but it might be just because I went to church every week until I was 16 but I really dont care to know him until my life changes for the better.It also seems like the more things I do good to help others the worse my luck becomes. I'm not kidding about bad luck everyone I know says i have the worst luck they ever seen

[Luke]

OK, here’s my 2 cents on it:

Before, I felt exactly how Luke did. It didn’t make any sense to me, that you can’t just stop. I mean, if you were on a deserted island by yourself, with no pills, you could stop, you would have to right? But I can’t relate, because I’ve never been in that situation, I never drank, smoked, got high, anything. I just never did it.

Let me tell you about my cousin. I grew up with him, I spent every summer at my aunts because the neighborhood I lived in was so bad. We were the same people, like twin brothers. We got older, grew apart a little bit, and he started fucking around with heroin. I watched this kid become a different person. He wanted to stop, he would try, but he just couldn’t do it. A couple years later, he got a bad batch and died in front of his daughter.

On to my brother. We got a long as good as two brothers could. I watched him start smoking week, and on to pills. He is a strong willed a person as you will find. He was burnt by a big pot of boiling water when he was 3 years old, because my pilled out Mom wasn’t paying attention to him. He has giant scars all over his upper body from the skin graphs/burns but he got through it, and he just pressed on, no big deal, he got through it after they told my mom he was going to die. Yet, the will he had, he couldn’t get off these fuckin pills. He would tell me, he could see how disappointed I was in him, he would tell me that he is trying. he went to rehab, got clean, got his own place, job, only to fall right back in the cycle. He couldn’t get off them for years.

Finally, he got a good job, a new religion (he is a Muslim now, white kid from Philly is a Muslim…LOL) and a new girlfriend, and he FINALLY seems like he has his shit together. He tells me that what he needed was a rigorous structure to keep him busy so he wouldn’t get high. He works his ass off all day, does his Muslim thing, and spends some time with his girl, and right back to it the next day. It’s a grind, but he tells me it saved his life.

Sorry for the rant, but what I’m saying is, I’ve watched it happen. Its fuckin hard to get off this shit. I don’t know firsthand, because I’ve never done it, but I watched two of the guys I loved more than anyone else in my family go through it. They tried over and over to stop. One is dead, one is doing pretty good. It’s hard for people to just quit cold turkey, it takes years to finally beat it, they have to keep fighting. If Karo wants to beat it, he just has to keep trying, even after he relapses, he has to get back on the horse, so to speak, and keep trying.

Carry on.

Glad to hear you brother is better,wish I could say the samthing about mine. I lost one of my best friends to an OD when we were 22 .He overdosed on some morphine he got from someone. I worry all the time its going to happen to my brother I just honestly dont have the time to deal with him because I'm always dealing with my own problems

[Luke]

Sounds like you got a pretty good grip on how things can be, Zak. Also, addictions can be both physical and psychological, sometimes both. I've known plenty of addicts and have dealt with some of my own shit. My stepdad's an alcoholic. I grew up with him that way, and thankfully he never was a mean drunk, but clearly that shit had a hold of him. He quit for about 10 years and then just a couple of years ago out of the blue started drinking again. My mom's a pill junkie who would always get fucked up on Xanax and shit. Not only that, she's just a little off psychologically since she's a manic depressive. She's doing a lot better these days, but I'm sure she's not 100% straight. And I also have a good friend who was into all kinds of shit--alcohol, cocaine, crack, meth. . . He would just do whatever. To support his addiction he started breaking into houses and doing all sorts of shady shit. Finally he got out of that life and is now in AA and trying to do the best he can.

I've heard so many times about how having a routine is really the key to staying clean. You have to get into a groove of getting up, going to work, going to the gym, maybe taking up some classes at the community college, coming home to spend time with the gf/wife and kids if you got 'em.

A lot of time's it's so easy to think that everyone should be just like you . . . that if you're strong in an area then everyone else should be too, or if you are able to do something then everyone else should be too, or whatever. That's just not always the case.

Never meant to offend you or you mom.I am very opinionated but I never, ever ,ever do I mean to offend anyone or hurt their feelings

[Luke]

I just remembered how my brother got hooked on pills.When he was 18(he's 24 now) he was having panic attacks alot .He had to go to the emergency room twice because he thought he was having a heartache and couldnt breathe.They gave him something to calm him down and he's been hooked on pills ever since. I'm not sure if he keeps taking them because they kept the panic attacks away (because they scared him to death) or because he liked getting high.Funny but I just remembered how he got started on them