BJ @ WW

[SPX]

It's obvious that BJ's heart is really in the WW division, not the LW. However, it's also obviously that he'll probably never beat GSP unless he could put on about 20 or 30 quality pounds (and even then it's doubtful).

However, would he be the LW champ if there was no GSP?

I think he would probably have trouble with Fitch, Alves, and Kos, but in an even money match I'd probably have money on a motivated, in shape Penn.

Thoughts?

[Mr. IWS]

I agree with you 100%.

I think a motivated Penn, like we saw against Diego, would beat Kos, Fitch, Alves, etc. It wouldnt be easy, but I think he would pull it out.

As far as GSP, as much as I would love to see BJ win, I dont think he will ever beat him.

I think Penn will go to WW, and fight some of these guys though, so it will be interesting to see how that plays out over the next couple years.

[Luke]

I dont see why people think its so hard to gain 15 pounds.BJ Penn just isnt as good as GSP thats all.

Manny started fighting at 107 ,his last fight was 145 .38 pounds is hard to go up in weight,15 is not imo.

People jump from 185 to 205 and 205 to HW all the time in the UFC.I just dont think Penn is as good as people think and the LW division is just weak like the HW division

[SPX]

I dont see why people think its so hard to gain 15 pounds.BJ Penn just isnt as good as GSP thats all.

First off, I think he would need more than 15 pounds to compete with today's WW monsters who are cutting from 200+ lbs. I think he's walking around right now at 170 or even a little less and guys like Alves are around 200.

The other thing is that he doesn't just need to gain weight . . . he needs to gain quality mass. This is difficult without steroids and can be slow-going. Considering that he would really need to gain AT LEAST 20 lbs of mostly lean mass, I could easily see that taking a year or so. At a MINIMUM, he could maybe put on 1 high quality pound a week with total dedication to his training and nutrition routine and even then he's looking at around 5 or 6 months.

[Mr. IWS]

First off, I think he would need more than 15 pounds to compete with today's WW monsters who are cutting from 200+ lbs. I think he's walking around right now at 170 or even a little less and guys like Alves are around 200.

co-sign

[Luke]

I dont see why people think its so hard to gain 15 pounds.BJ Penn just isnt as good as GSP thats all.

First off, I think he would need more than 15 pounds to compete with today's WW monsters who are cutting from 200+ lbs. I think he's walking around right now at 170 or even a little less and guys like Alves are around 200.

The other thing is that he doesn't just need to gain weight . . . he needs to gain quality mass. This is difficult without steroids and can be slow-going. Considering that he would really need to gain AT LEAST 20 lbs of mostly lean mass, I could easily see that taking a year or so. At a MINIMUM, he could maybe put on 1 high quality pound a week with total dedication to his training and nutrition routine and even then he's looking at around 5 or 6 months.

You guys act like I dont know what I'm talking .I was watching boxing and watching people gain weight and change divisions before MMA was even around to watch
A year or so to gain 15 or 20 pounds ? Thats nuts .You should get into more boxing .I know gaining weight and changing divisions is new to MMA but boxers have been doing it forever.Ive seen a ton on boxers gain muscle for fights

Hopkins gained 15 pounds in 6 months for his Tarver fight and he's the same size as Penn. Roy Jones gained 20 pounds of muscle in 5 months fo his Ruiz fight.Its not the gaining muscle thats hard its cutting back to your original weight thats hard.Both those weights were after they cut weight for the scales so both of these guys could have gained more in that short time

All it takes is a good nutritionist and you shouldnt have any problems



I just dont think it takes as long as you think it does and dont think its as hard because I've seen it done many times but I have never personally done it

[Mr. IWS]

I dont think anyone is saying you dont know what your talking about.

BJ really has to gain a good 25-30 lbs of good weight, then cut down to 170 for weigh ins, and rehydrate back up to the 180's to be competitive at WW. I think for him to do that would take him at least a year, to do it right.

He doesnt have the frame, to gain that kind of weight in a 6 month time frame IMO.

B-hop is also bigger than penn. 6'1" to 5"9". Then you have to take into account the difference in the sport. Boxers are not getting pinned down by guys that outweigh them by 20-30 lbs, as was the case in BJ/GSP 2.

[Luke]

I dont think anyone is saying you dont know what your talking about.

BJ really has to gain a good 25-30 lbs of good weight, then cut down to 170 for weigh ins, and rehydrate back up to the 180's to be competitive at WW. I think for him to do that would take him at least a year, to do it right.

He doesnt have the frame, to gain that kind of weight in a 6 month time frame IMO.

B-hop is also bigger than penn. 6'1" to 5"9". Then you have to take into account the difference in the sport. Boxers are not getting pinned down by guys that outweigh them by 20-30 lbs, as was the case in BJ/GSP 2.

Maybe the difference in sports is why I dont think its that hard to do.Like I said I've seen it done in boxing so much I dont even think of it as a difficult task.

Just for the record I'm not trying it either to see if it works because I dont like men laying on me

[Mr. IWS]

I wish I had the problem of not being heavy enough.

[Luke]

I wish I had the problem of not being heavy enough.

I've gained 20 pounds since vegas .Im pushing 190 now .I need to start workingout again. I just cant seem to get motivation whenits cold

[SPX]

I think I'm coming at it from a bodybuilding perspective. I'm a small person. I'm about 5'6" and until I was in my mid-20s, I averaged somewhere around 118-120 lbs. Now that I've gotten a little older and my metabolism has slowed a bit, I stay in the 135-140 lb range. But ever since I was 14 years old I've been trying to gain weight I wouldn't call if anything but difficult. Usually I can gain 5-7 lbs pretty easily, but after that things slow down drastically and require high calorie consumption to maintain.

I've never been a super-clean eater, with the mindset that I'll just bulk up and allow a little extra fat on the way up and then cut down to a lean 7-10% bodyfat. Unfortunately, even when eating fairly dirty with a lot of fast food and beer I still have a hard time putting weight on. In fact, I can never keep up the eating ritual long enough to get to where I want to be. I just hit a wall and am sick of eating that I can't keep going and often end up going in the opposite direction where I eat very little for a while.

So I definitely think it would be hard for someone trying to eat clean. That would take even more food to get the necessary calories. Granted, everyone's different and different body types react differently. But you can't just say, "Oh, it's easy to put on 20 lbs. of muscle, it shouldn't be a problem."

[Luke]

I think I'm coming at it from a bodybuilding perspective. I'm a small person. I'm about 5'6" and until I was in my mid-20s, I averaged somewhere around 118-120 lbs. Now that I've gotten a little older and my metabolism has slowed a bit, I stay in the 135-140 lb range. But ever since I was 14 years old I've been trying to gain weight I wouldn't call if anything but difficult. Usually I can gain 5-7 lbs pretty easily, but after that things slow down drastically and require high calorie consumption to maintain.

I've never been a super-clean eater, with the mindset that I'll just bulk up and allow a little extra fat on the way up and then cut down to a lean 7-10% bodyfat. Unfortunately, even when eating fairly dirty with a lot of fast food and beer I still have a hard time putting weight on. In fact, I can never keep up the eating ritual long enough to get to where I want to be. I just hit a wall and am sick of eating that I can't keep going and often end up going in the opposite direction where I eat very little for a while.

So I definitely think it would be hard for someone trying to eat clean. That would take even more food to get the necessary calories. Granted, everyone's different and different body types react differently. But you can't just say, "Oh, it's easy to put on 20 lbs. of muscle, it shouldn't be a problem."

I'm usually somewhere between 170 and 190 and even when I'm 170 I could start lifting and get to 210 with no problem

I weighed 220 in high school for football and I wasnt fat .So in reality it was easy for me but everyones not alike

[SPX]

If GSP loses the title in the next couple of years, do you think we'll see BJ try to move up again and take it?

I think that would be a very exciting situation, actually. GSP gets beat by Fighter X-->BJ beats Fighter X for the title-->we get Penn/GSP III for the belt.

[zY|]

^^Who would ever want to see GSP fight Penn again?

[SPX]

^^Who would ever want to see GSP fight Penn again?

The first fight was very close. If Penn can fix his mistakes (such as coming in underweight) and if GSP can come in dry so as not to neutralize Penn's BJJ (not to get into a greasing debate here, but if in fact GSP was unnaturally slippery, then I can see how that would really be a big factor in the outcome of the fight) then I'd like to see a third fight.

[zY|]

The first fight was three and a half years ago. Clearly we saw from when Penn was demolished this SAME CALENDAR YEAR that GSP has moved beyond Penn. Yet somehow beating up 2 lightweights from a reality show puts Penn back on GSP's level.

Unreal.

[SPX]

The first fight was three and a half years ago. Clearly we saw from when Penn was demolished this SAME CALENDAR YEAR that GSP has moved beyond Penn. Yet somehow beating up 2 lightweights from a reality show puts Penn back on GSP's level.

Unreal.

Surely an educated MMA fan like yourself wouldn't actually use the "reality show" argument. . .

[zY|]

I'm sorry.

I just really have no patience for this subject anymore. To me it's so plain to see that GSP is well beyond Penn at this point. When he was younger with less developed skills it was a close fight, but now that he's reached the level he's currently at it will never be close again. It's reported that he has even GAINED 10 pounds of muscle recently. How is this even fair? Imagine, if you will, just how badly GSP would bulldoze Diego and Florini. He'd be charged with hate crimes.

[Mr. IWS]

To me it's so plain to see that GSP is well beyond Penn at this point.

As much as I hate to agree here (im a Penn nuthugger), I think GSP is just too big/good now. I think Penn can be competitive with pretty much any WW except GSP.

[zY|]

[quote=IWS Zak]

To me it's so plain to see that GSP is well beyond Penn at this point.

As much as I hate to agree here (im a Penn nuthugger), I think GSP is just too big/good now. I think Penn can be competitive with pretty much any WW except GSP.[/quote:3iwerjgj]

I could probably be classified as a GSP nuthugger, even though I hate that label. I think I view Penn pretty objectively though. After seeing him live at 107 and screaming his name I'm a much bigger fan of his LOL.

I'm still kicking myself for not betting on him on that fight. I missed the opening line and waited to see if would drop and it was, and I was planning on going all in on him on the day of, but ended up dicking off and didn't think about it again till I arrived at the event. Lock of the year down the drain.