UFC 116 discussion/matchups

[SPX]

Also, those 3 fight losing streak guys are fan favorite, TUF, marketable guys: Bonnar, Jardine, Ortiz (hasn't won since 2006), and who else?

Well as zY mentioned, Grove is a TUF winner.

Also, not sure how marketable Bonnar is.

[zY|]

I think the only TUF winner to be cut so far is Travis Lutter. And not only was that TUF different consisting of only veteran fighters, but he fucked up BIG TIME in both his fights after the show.

[Ludo]

How could Reljic be on the chopping block after being a HUGE prospect before almost having his career ended after the Gouveia fight(which he won)? The only reason he lost to CB Dolloway was the near 2 year layoff. Grove won't get cut, he's still a great measuring stick for the division(if you can't beat Grove your nowhere near title contention). He's still young but doesn't seem to be improving, yet his skillset is that which can give anyone problems on the right night. Neither of these guys is getting cut any time soon.

[Ludo]

And while it's a blanket statement, British fighters(as long as they've been fighting in MMA) have NEVER had uniformly good wrestling. Brits are brawlers by definition, they love to strike, they love to scrap, they love to stand and bang and win by being the tougher fighter in an exchange. Are there exceptions to the rule? Sure, Michael Bispings wrestling is better than your average brit's, but it's still sub par compared to basically ANY american wrestler with a Division 2 pedigree or better.

Wrestling is just not ingrained into the British culture like it is here in America. We form wrestling teams in highschool, they form boxing and kickboxing teams in highschool. Wrestling is simply not important in the UK. Thus they don't learn much of it if they don't venture out.

SPX was right though, it wasn't nearly as off the mark as some of the stupid shit you say zY. Why just tonight you said Forrest Griffin and Jason Brilz were near the same level... His biggest win is over Tim Boetsch for christs sakes. I'll take a close 5 round decision win over Rampage above a 3 round unanimous decision over Boetsch any day of the week and twice on sunday.

[Mr. IWS]

Welcome edman! Always good to see a BJ fan in the mix.

Im coming around a bit on Carwin myself, but in the end, I dont think my balls are big enough to put money on him.

[zY|]

And while it's a blanket statement, British fighters(as long as they've been fighting in MMA) have NEVER had uniformly good wrestling. Brits are brawlers by definition, they love to strike, they love to scrap, they love to stand and bang and win by being the tougher fighter in an exchange. Are there exceptions to the rule? Sure, Michael Bispings wrestling is better than your average brit's, but it's still sub par compared to basically ANY american wrestler with a Division 2 pedigree or better.

Wrestling is just not ingrained into the British culture like it is here in America. We form wrestling teams in highschool, they form boxing and kickboxing teams in highschool. Wrestling is simply not important in the UK. Thus they don't learn much of it if they don't venture out.

SPX was right though, it wasn't nearly as off the mark as some of the stupid shit you say zY. Why just tonight you said Forrest Griffin and Jason Brilz were near the same level... His biggest win is over Tim Boetsch for christs sakes. I'll take a close 5 round decision win over Rampage above a 3 round unanimous decision over Boetsch any day of the week and twice on sunday.

Nobody asked you anything. I could say the sky was blue and you'd say it was red. Go back in your hole.

Besides, all I meant is that saying this guy is a wrestler and his opponent is British, therefore he's going to lose even though I don't know who he is seems pretty suspect.

[MMA_scientist]

Scientists,

For the Tusch fight I think you may be wrong because you don't have to finish a fight to win a fight. Finishing is far from everything..If Tusch can get him on the ground he can hold him there for a while(15 min goes by). I don't know what Tusches chin is like but i remember the nut shots he took from Gonzaga. They were baaad, and he kept going. If his chin is as good as his nuts he might be able to take what shots he has to standing before he gets the fight to the ground and holds Schaub there. Also I read your post about Steroids, off topic here but why do you think Randy Couture has taken them? Because of his ability to compete at his age?

I agree he does not have to finish... but I think as the fight wears on, the likelyhood that Schaub drops his increases. And since I don't think Tuch can finish, the fight will be wearing on. Cardio makes cowards of us all. I don't know what his chin is like either, but I don't trust anyone's chin when we are talking about HWs. They all have KO power.

As for Randy, I was really just trying to annoy everyone. I mean, I do think Randy is on something...

My opinion is just based on logic. What is more likely? That Randy has somehow figured out how to defy biology, and get stronger, faster and better at 47.... or that he is getting some chemical help? It is a lot like Roger Clemens to me. You just don't get better after 40. He was on this fight science show a couple of years ago, and the conclusion of the show was that Randy's body was somehow superhuman, able to pump more oxygen for longer than a human body should. What is more likely? That Randy is super-human, or that the test was flawed? Ockham's Razor.

[SPX]

My opinion is just based on logic. What is more likely? That Randy has somehow figured out how to defy biology, and get stronger, faster and better at 47.... or that he is getting some chemical help?

But Randy's NOT getting better. He's still a good fighter and still kicking ass, but there has been a noticeable decline just in the past few years since the Sylvia and Gonzaga fights.

[MMA_scientist]

My opinion is just based on logic. What is more likely? That Randy has somehow figured out how to defy biology, and get stronger, faster and better at 47.... or that he is getting some chemical help?

But Randy's NOT getting better. He's still a good fighter and still kicking ass, but there has been a noticeable decline just in the past few years since the Sylvia and Gonzaga fights.

Still, he was what... 44 when he fought Syvia?

Also, I disagree... the evolution of the sport and the level of training and athlete is like inflation. You have to get better (a lot better) just to stay competitive. Staying at ground zero means you are losing ground. To me, the fact that he is still competitive with top guys is enough to say he is getting better. Randy is a cheat, clearly. Look at his gay scarf, it's obvious.

[zY|]

Haters gonna hate.

[SPX]

Also, I disagree... the evolution of the sport and the level of training and athlete is like inflation. You have to get better (a lot better) just to stay competitive. Staying at ground zero means you are losing ground. To me, the fact that he is still competitive with top guys is enough to say he is getting better. Randy is a cheat, clearly. Look at his gay scarf, it's obvious.

That's an interesting point, but let me ask you this:

1. Do you think the Randy of today could beat the Randy of 3 years ago? Is what you're saying? Because I don't.

2. Is Nog also getting better? Seems to everyone else that Nog is declining, but he beat Randy decisively. I think the Randy that fought Sylvia though may very well have won that fight. I don't want to break out the MMAth up in this bitch, but who looked better against Sylvia, Randy or Nog?

[MMA_scientist]

Styles make fights. Sylvia was a stylistic nightmare for Nog. Nog finished Sylvia, so I am more impressed by that.

I would agree that Randy 2006 would beat Randy 2010 though. At some point, even roids can't save you. He is damn near 50. Its not a magic youth potion... but it does allow his decripit old body to train a lot more than he would otherwise be able to.

Its obviously all conjecture. I just don't believe in magic. Usually when something seems amiss, it is. I am using my detective skills to opine that Randy has problems. I don't trust this dude at all.

[SPX]

Fair enough.

But I have a lot more posts than you. So I'm obviously right.

[zY|]

^^can't argue with that, white belt

[MMA_scientist]

Yeah but you are part of the establishment now. I am a customer. The customer is always right.

Plus, You have admit that if Randy was not a great fighter, you would be like what the hell is up with this guy? The tan. The new tattoo and teeth. The 4 wives. The scarves. Its the midlife crisis to end all midlife crises. Now that I think about it, I am so sick of this guy. Add him to my hate list.

[zY|]

Yeah but you are part of the establishment now. I am a customer. The customer is always right.

Plus, You have admit that if Randy was not a great fighter, you would be like what the hell is up with this guy? The tan. The new tattoo and teeth. The 4 wives. The scarves. Its the midlife crisis to end all midlife crises. Now that I think about it, I am so sick of this guy. Add him to my hate list.

I can fox with that.

Add to it his blaze-of-glory retirement tour favorable matchups and gift decisions, and we're really on to something here!

[MMA_scientist]

I can fox with that.

Add to it his blaze-of-glory retirement tour favorable matchups and gift decisions, and we're really on to something here!

Officially on the James Toney-please humiliate Randy Couture and send him to the annals of mma shame forever and then let Toney fight someone else and get dominated to redeem MMA- war wagon.

[SPX]

Yeah but you are part of the establishment now. I am a customer. The customer is always right.

Only if you add "Serra is Lord" as your sig.

Plus, You have admit that if Randy was not a great fighter, you would be like what the hell is up with this guy? The tan. The new tattoo and teeth. The 4 wives. The scarves. Its the midlife crisis to end all midlife crises. Now that I think about it, I am so sick of this guy. Add him to my hate list.

Sure, but he IS a great fighter. And like I say, it's not like his slow decline has not been obvious. He can still keep up with a lot of younger guys right now but I think that won't be true much longer. I won't completely rule out the possibility that he's doing some shit and it wouldn't just shock me if I found it he was, but I also think he could just be proof of what can happen if someone keeps themself in shape their life. 47 isn't THAT fucking old, after all.

As for the rest of that shit, well hell, he's just living the life. When most other 47 year olds are busy living the domesticated life, he's fucking young blondes, winning fights, and acting in movies with Stallone! Who could blame him?

[zY|]

[quote=MMA_scientist]

I can fox with that.

Add to it his blaze-of-glory retirement tour favorable matchups and gift decisions, and we're really on to something here!

Officially on the James Toney-please humiliate Randy Couture and send him to the annals of mma shame forever and then let Toney fight someone else and get dominated to redeem MMA- war wagon.[/quote:6dlxyga9]

Shotgun!

WAR 18-11!!!

[SPX]

Fuck ya'll.

Couture's the shit.