UFC 117

[poopoo333]

Was that serious, or sarcastic. Was there not anyone on Sonnen (R-Or) at those dog odds?

Well the term "Marquardt'd" is thrown around here when everyone agrees on one fighter and he loses...I am serious.

[sbjj]

Damn. Sorry. Hope it is not done again. No way in hell I touch Silve @ his price. I think Sonnen is a solid play @ his price though.

[sbjj]

Silva

[MMA_scientist]

Come on now. Worse than Dan in every way. Sonnen (R-Or) goes in there and gets takedowns. He does not go in there and just wildly throw right hands. No way in hell Dan is better than Sonnen. Sonnen (R-Or) would put Dan on his back with ease.

You honestly believe Dan would put Okami and Nate on their backs the way Sonnen (R-Or) did.

Dan is a better and more accomplished wrestler than Chael. He doesn't go for the takedown because that is not how he fights, he likes to land the right hand.

If you think there is "no way in hell" Dan is better than Chael, you have an extremely short memory or you watched your first fight 18 months ago. Up until he lost to Rampage, Hendo was in Silva's spot on the PFP list.

Dan is a better wrestler with better striking and better submission defense. Sonnen likes to get subbed. He can't beat anyone that can play guard at all.

The talk was similar around the Nate fight, but that was because we thought Nate's takedown defense would be better.

[SPX]

Silva

You could've just edited it. . .

[MMA_scientist]

Not only did we all like Marquart, we all thought he had a lot of value.

I got him @ -270 or so, and I thought I was a genius.

I wouldn't have laid -400 like some of you guys did.

[sbjj]

Come on now. Worse than Dan in every way. Sonnen (R-Or) (R-Or) goes in there and gets takedowns. He does not go in there and just wildly throw right hands. No way in hell Dan is better than Sonnen. Sonnen (R-Or) (R-Or) would put Dan on his back with ease.

You honestly believe Dan would put Okami and Nate on their backs the way Sonnen (R-Or) (R-Or) did.

Dan is a better and more accomplished wrestler than Chael. He doesn't go for the takedown because that is not how he fights, he likes to land the right hand.

If you think there is "no way in hell" Dan is better than Chael, you have an extremely short memory or you watched your first fight 18 months ago. Up until he lost to Rampage, Hendo was in Silva's spot on the PFP list.

Dan is a better wrestler with better striking and better submission defense. Sonnen (R-Or) likes to get subbed. He can't beat anyone that can play guard at all.

The talk was similar around the Nate fight, but that was because we thought Nate's takedown defense would be better.

The fact that you think Dan is a better wrestler than Sonnen at the moment because of credentials earned years, if not decades ago shows much about your argument. I guess Fitch, Kos, and 80% of the UFC WW are better wrestlers than GSP also.

I guess you are also blind to the fact that Chael is fastly improving as a fighter, especially is seb def. and just his toughness(in order to hang in there and not tap). You might just be wrong 3 times in a row now with Chael, but then you can always go back and bring up Maia. As I am sure you thought Chael would lose all of his previous fights.

And i stand by my post that there is no way in hell that Dan is better than Sonnen at this time. And a fight between the two would be brutal for Dan, as he would get pounded on the entire fight while on his back.

[sbjj]

Not only did we all like Marquart, we all thought he had a lot of value.

I got him @ -270 or so, and I thought I was a genius.

I wouldn't have laid -400 like some of you guys did.

I bet small on Sonnen, and was almost alone on another website also. But it hardly mattered, as the event as a whole was close to break even. I gues the Sonnen bet helped me break even at least.

[zY|]

I'm a bit new here, but I have a feeling these posts are very familier to the ones leading up to the Nate-Chael fight. With many not giving Sonnen (R-Or) a chance at beating Nate.

Fair point, but go watch that fight again. Nate had pretty much the worst strategy known to man. Silva is going to do what he always does. On top of that, the momentum was shifting at the end of the 3rd round imo, and Nate was doing some good work and many thought he stole the round. Had it gone 2 more rounds I'm not sure how it would've gone.

He surprised everyone against Marquardt, so let the man have his shot.

No doubt. I'm definitely looking forward to it. I just don't fancy his chances.

[poopoo333]

As I am sure you thought Chael would lose all of his previous fights.

Pretty sure Scientist had money on Chael over Okami.

[zY|]

I think Chael would whoop Dan as well. For as accomplished a wrestler as Dan is, his defensive wrestling is absolutely putrid. Like getting taken down a million times by guys like Shields and Ninja Rua.

[sbjj]

Zy, Silva might be easier to take down than Nate. Think about your guys arguments here. You give Sonnen no credit. You just say Nate had a bad gameplan and bad TDD. Where is your proof? Maybe Sonnen just has the best damn takedowns in the MW division. After all, he also took down Okami, does he also have bad TDD? MMA Scientists said Sonnen can not play in anyones guard(anyone with a legit guard) But my belief is that Ntae has a wicked guard, but that Chael has improved his top game, and is just a much gritier fighter now than he was years ago.

If you think Silva is going to be harder to takedown than Yushin or Nate, I think many of you are in for one more surprise.

[zY|]

I just hope we get at least one gif-worthy moment where Sonnen catches a kick or something and just manhandles Silva to the mat.

[poopoo333]

Zy, Silva might be easier to take down than Nate. Think about your guys arguments here. You give Sonnen (R-Or) no credit. You just say Nate had a bad gameplan and bad TDD. Where is your proof? Maybe Sonnen (R-Or) just has the best damn takedowns in the MW division. After all, he also took down Okami, does he also have bad TDD? MMA Scientists said Sonnen (R-Or) can not play in anyones guard(anyone with a legit guard) But my belief is that Ntae has a wicked guard, but that Chael has improved his top game, and is just a much gritier fighter now than he was years ago.

If you think Silva is going to be harder to takedown than Yushin or Nate, I think many of you are in for one more surprise.

I agree. Nate actually said he didn't stick to his gameplan, so he didn't really have a bad gameplan. BUT, the reason why he didn't stick to his gameplan is because Chael was able to quickly get inside and get the TD, and remain stuck to Marquardt wherever he went. I am being literal when I say "stuck", Marquardt got 2 inches of space and Chael would go right back on him. However...Chael also played in Dan' Miller's guard, but he was almost subbed three times; he also played in Filho's guard and was finally caught in an armbar. I think Chael is aware that his sub defense sucks, and I am sure he is working on it.

[zY|]

Zy, Silva might be easier to take down than Nate. Think about your guys arguments here. You give Sonnen (R-Or) no credit. You just say Nate had a bad gameplan and bad TDD. Where is your proof? Maybe Sonnen (R-Or) just has the best damn takedowns in the MW division. After all, he also took down Okami, does he also have bad TDD? MMA Scientists said Sonnen (R-Or) can not play in anyones guard(anyone with a legit guard) But my belief is that Ntae has a wicked guard, but that Chael has improved his top game, and is just a much gritier fighter now than he was years ago.

If you think Silva is going to be harder to takedown than Yushin or Nate, I think many of you are in for one more surprise.

I explained why I think he'll be harder to take down, and it's not traditional wrestling takedown defense.

There's no denying Sonnen has great takedowns. He probably does have the best takedowns at MW.

My proof of Nate having a shit gameplan is him standing up straight trying to throw flying knees and shit at Sonnen over and over when he knows Chael is just going to change levels and take him down. It's like he wasn't even trying to defend takedowns. He was going for a homerun every time he stood up. Whether that's a bad gameplan or just piss poor execution is in the eye of the beholder, but Silva will be far more composed.

Still, even if Sonnen manages to take Silva down easily, doing it for 5 rounds without getting knocked out or submitted is a tall fucking order.

[MMA_scientist]

Zy, Silva might be easier to take down than Nate. Think about your guys arguments here. You give Sonnen (R-Or) no credit. You just say Nate had a bad gameplan and bad TDD. Where is your proof? Maybe Sonnen (R-Or) just has the best damn takedowns in the MW division. After all, he also took down Okami, does he also have bad TDD? MMA Scientists said Sonnen (R-Or) can not play in anyones guard(anyone with a legit guard) But my belief is that Ntae has a wicked guard, but that Chael has improved his top game, and is just a much gritier fighter now than he was years ago.

If you think Silva is going to be harder to takedown than Yushin or Nate, I think many of you are in for one more surprise.

I had a bet on Chael as a dog to beat Okami- because he was fighting a slightly worse wrestler. When 2 guys are good at the same thing, but one guy is a little better, its an easy pick.

I thought Chael would have a tought fight with Miller, I didn't bet it, but I thought it would be close.

I did bet on Maia to beat Sonnen, per my bjj > wrestling criteria. I won't say I expected Maia to ragdoll him though. I thougt he would jump guard.


I thought Nate would beat him, but I overestimated Nate's TD defense and ability to stand up. Sonnen has been subbed by the last 2 guys who were guard players (Maia and Filho). He did get by Creduer in 2006 but was then subbed by the next 2 guard players he fought- Horn amd Babalu (how many times does Horn have to sub him from his back- apparently 3) He is older now and is on a (gasp) three fight win streak. So do I think he suddenly just got magically better after 32 fights while training with the same camp with the same sparring partners and working part time? No, no I don't.

He is the same old Sonnen. He had a 5 fight win streak a few years back. He has been facing guys that match up well with him, just as he did the last time he went on a streak.

That said, I wouldn't be shocked if he beat Silva. But he sure as hell won't be finishing him... so Silva will have 25 minutes to figure out how to land one punch or knee or triangle. I do not think Sonnen will be able to be mistake free against someone with offense as dynamic as Anderson's.

As for Nate having a good guard... no. He hasn't subbed someone from guard in 10 years. I don't recall him sweeping anyone in the modern era. I thought he would stand up.

[Svino]

I haven't bet anything on Sonnen vs. Silva yet, but I will probably bet on Sonnen, especially if the line improves. Sonnen has been given good matchups lately; I think if he fought Maia, Maia would beat him again. However, for the reasons several people have pointed out, Silva is also a pretty good matchup. The odds that Sonnen can LnP Silva are probably worth what Vegas is offering. Just to point something out: Sonnen doesn't need to control Silva for 25 min, he only needs to control him for 15 (maybe even as low as 9, 3 min in each of three rounds, if he doesn't get too blasted on the feet.) However, Silva does have a potent weapon in takedown defense that should not be overlooked: timidity. He may be able to stay far outside and pick his shots against a guy who is desperate to rush in on him.

[Luke]

Yeah that was us. We lost money. All of us.

Speak for yourself I didnt have a dime on Nate lol

[Luke]

Sonnen backers=wasting there money imo .

Ever since Edgar-Penn people are trying to find the next huge upset. This isnt it move on

[SPX]

Sonnen (R-Or) backers=wasting there money imo .

Ever since Edgar-Penn people are trying to find the next huge upset. This isnt it move on

I'll take him at +400.