UFC 117

[Luke]

My bad, brother. Didn't mean to come off that way. Let me fix it:

sbjj, you fucking punk ass piece of shit! Luke is NOTHING like what you described! You fucking pull that shit around here again and you're gonna get drilled in the ass harder than an 18-year-old white kid in San Quentin!

Got it? Good.

Fucking bitch.

thats what I was looking for lol

[MMA_scientist]

But, if you use your subjective argument. a guy could say every time he loses that the other fighter got lucky. I actually believe Hughes win over Ricardo was luckier than Silvas over Sonnens. i firmly believe that was pretty much a lucky shot that he hit Ricardo with, and that he looked like complete shit before that shot.

That is true... you could say everything was luck. You would probably be a terrible capper. Then at the other end of the spectrum, there is a guy who thinks nothing was luck, or low percentage (ie the smart play is always the guy that won)...

Then in between you have a whole array of opinions. But the bottom line, is that what is a "correct" play depends entirely on how you "see" a fight. Some opinions are more popular than others... but just like setting a line, it is not an exact science and you never really know if you valued a fight correctly.

As far as Hughes goes, I think the shot was a little flukey, but Almeida should have known he was getting choked. I picked Hughes to win, it definitely did not play out how I thought, but I still think Hughes was the play. I don't think Silva got lucky at all.

[SPX]

I don't think Silva got lucky at all.

I just don't think he had some grand plan to wait until the last minute to win. If Chael could go 23 minutes avoiding the subs then you know he had the skill to go two more. So if nothing else, the fact that Chael got too comfortable, thinking he had the thing won, and left the opening was a lucky break for Silva.

[MMA_scientist]

I don't think Silva got lucky at all.

I just don't think he had some grand plan to wait until the last minute to win. If Chael could go 23 minutes avoiding the subs then you know he had the skill to go two more. So if nothing else, the fact that Chael got too comfortable, thinking he had the thing won, and left the opening was a lucky break for Silva.

I agree, he just made a mental mistake and took his foot off the gas. That said, you could just as easily argue that Chael got lucky to avoid the subs for the first 23 minutes... and that if Silva had the skill to sub him in the 5th, he has the skill to sub him in the 1st. Submissions are frustrating like that, they often come from the guy that is "losing"... and you always wonder, could he do that again? He just caught him...

[SPX]

I agree, he just made a mental mistake and took his foot off the gas. That said, you could just as easily argue that Chael got lucky to avoid the subs for the first 23 minutes... and that if Silva had the skill to sub him in the 5th, he has the skill to sub him in the 1st. Submissions are frustrating like that, they often come from the guy that is "losing"... and you always wonder, could he do that again? He just caught him...

I see what you're saying. As I kind of alluded to earlier, though, I think I'd have an easier time with it if Silva had subbed him within the first three rounds. The conditions of a three round fight and a five round fight are, in sense, despite the fact that one is specifically for championship fights, somewhat arbitrary. I mean, WHY are championship fights 5 rounds? Just cuz, is the reason.

So it's weird, because we know Sonnen beat him for 3 rounds . . . the length of most MMA fights . . . so if this had been a 3 round fight, Sonnen would've won. And the thing is that 5 round victories aren't put in any special category. It's a win, either way. So it was just a twist of fate that Sonnen did not get a standard win.

Really, I wonder how many fights in the history of MMA would've had different endings in every fight was the same length, regardless of whether it's 3 rounds or 5.

[zY|]

I wish all fights were 5 rounds. Championship fights 7.

[sbjj]

[quote=MMA_scientist]

I don't think Silva got lucky at all.

I just don't think he had some grand plan to wait until the last minute to win. If Chael could go 23 minutes avoiding the subs then you know he had the skill to go two more. So if nothing else, the fact that Chael got too comfortable, thinking he had the thing won, and left the opening was a lucky break for Silva.

I agree, he just made a mental mistake and took his foot off the gas. That said, you could just as easily argue that Chael got lucky to avoid the subs for the first 23 minutes... and that if Silva had the skill to sub him in the 5th, he has the skill to sub him in the 1st. Submissions are frustrating like that, they often come from the guy that is "losing"... and you always wonder, could he do that again? He just caught him...[/quote:2zwlkq6j]

Alright, this is kinda silly. To equate both on the same scale of possible luck is borderline insane. It is not lucky to dominate a fight for 95% of it. but it can be lucky to catch a break at a split second. MMA, you are taking this argument to an extreme. Using your logic, one could say that Fedor has been lucky up till now to not lose. At some point, rational thinking should win out...unless you are just looking to argue. the rational viewpoint seems to be that Chael was caught while getting complacent at the end of the fight. But that he dominated up till that point.

If 90% of people agree on a viewpoint, the 10% that do not are either irrational or just genious. I still believe the Hughes punch was quite lucky, and in a combat sport it happens. He has never done that before, and more than likely never will again. that to me equals luck...Just like Serras punch was lucky...just my opinion.

[sbjj]

I agree, he just made a mental mistake and took his foot off the gas. That said, you could just as easily argue that Chael got lucky to avoid the subs for the first 23 minutes... and that if Silva had the skill to sub him in the 5th, he has the skill to sub him in the 1st. Submissions are frustrating like that, they often come from the guy that is "losing"... and you always wonder, could he do that again? He just caught him...

I see what you're saying. As I kind of alluded to earlier, though, I think I'd have an easier time with it if Silva had subbed him within the first three rounds. The conditions of a three round fight and a five round fight are, in sense, despite the fact that one is specifically for championship fights, somewhat arbitrary. I mean, WHY are championship fights 5 rounds? Just cuz, is the reason.

So it's weird, because we know Sonnen (R-Or) beat him for 3 rounds . . . the length of most MMA fights . . . so if this had been a 3 round fight, Sonnen (R-Or) would've won. And the thing is that 5 round victories aren't put in any special category. It's a win, either way. So it was just a twist of fate that Sonnen (R-Or) did not get a standard win.

Really, I wonder how many fights in the history of MMA would've had different endings in every fight was the same length, regardless of whether it's 3 rounds or 5.

I think Nick diaz would have a better record if all fights were 5 rounds.

[SPX]

...Just like Serras punch was lucky...

Blasphemy.

Don't come up in my house with that shit.

[SPX]

I wish all fights were 5 rounds. Championship fights 7.

This brings us back to the same situation, though. I think I could make a logical argument for all fights being the same length, whether it's 3 or 5 rounds.

[MMA_scientist]

Alright, this is kinda silly. To equate both on the same scale of possible luck is borderline insane. It is not lucky to dominate a fight for 95% of it. but it can be lucky to catch a break at a split second. MMA, you are taking this argument to an extreme. Using your logic, one could say that Fedor has been lucky up till now to not lose. At some point, rational thinking should win out...unless you are just looking to argue. the rational viewpoint seems to be that Chael was caught while getting complacent at the end of the fight. But that he dominated up till that point.

If 90% of people agree on a viewpoint, the 10% that do not are either irrational or just genious. I still believe the Hughes punch was quite lucky, and in a combat sport it happens. He has never done that before, and more than likely never will again. that to me equals luck...Just like Serras punch was lucky...just my opinion.

I said I agree that Chael made a mistake and got caught... it is not my viewpoint that he was lucky to avoid the sub until then. But I don't think Silva got lucky either. He trained to submit from his back when a certain thing happened, that thing happened, and Silva triangled him. That is not luck to me. If it happened in a more bizarre way, would be more inclined to call it luck.

Hughes' punch, while not "luck" I don't think he could do it again. Serra's punch was lucky though, IMO. Not because he landed a shot, but just that it landed in a really weird way in a really weird spot. He basically forearm hooked him in the back of the head. So I am more inclined to call that a lucky shot. (Here comes SPX to call me a hater again).

[zY|]

I wish all fights were 5 rounds. Championship fights 7.

This brings us back to the same situation, though. I think I could make a logical argument for all fights being the same length, whether it's 3 or 5 rounds.

Why? Lower level guys don't need to fight that long. And really, I just mean all championship level fighters fight at least 5 rounds. It's ridiculous that these guys only fight for 15 minutes. Maybe Pacquiao and Floyd should just come out and fight for 5 rounds only.

[SPX]

Maybe Pacquiao and Floyd should just come out and fight for 5 rounds only.

Yeah, but boxing DOES have fights with less rounds, all depending on the situation.

[SPX]

Why? Lower level guys don't need to fight that long.

I'd call it uniformity of results. What is an "MMA fight?" Is it 3 rounds or 5?

[zY|]

Why? Lower level guys don't need to fight that long.

I'd call it uniformity of results. What is an "MMA fight?" Is it 3 rounds or 5?

It's at least 3 rounds under the unified rules. What are you asking? And yeah boxing has different number of rounds, generally dependent on the level of the fighters. Which is exactly what I'm saying.

[SPX]

It's at least 3 rounds under the unified rules. What are you asking? And yeah boxing has different number of rounds, generally dependent on the level of the fighters. Which is exactly what I'm saying.

My point is that I think there are good reasons that all fights should be the same length. A belt shouldn't matter.

I'm not saying that's the best plan, because from an entertainment standpoint it would suck to have a card full of 5 round fights, but I from a logical standpoint the shit should be standardized.

[zY|]

It's at least 3 rounds under the unified rules. What are you asking? And yeah boxing has different number of rounds, generally dependent on the level of the fighters. Which is exactly what I'm saying.

My point is that I think there are good reasons that all fights should be the same length. A belt shouldn't matter.

I'm not saying that's the best plan, because from an entertainment standpoint it would suck to have a card full of 5 round fights, but I from a logical standpoint the shit should be standardized.

So you think debuting fighters should fight just as long as the top guys in the world? That's one of the most illogical things I've ever heard.

[SPX]

So you think debuting fighters should fight just as long as the top guys in the world? That's one of the most illogical things I've ever heard.

Why not? Because they haven't "earned" the right or something?

If anything, then maybe amateur bouts should be shorter. But once you go pro . . . you go pro.

It's not like AAA baseball teams play shorter games or anything. Everyone knows a baseball game is 9 innings.

[Luke]

. Maybe Pacquiao and Floyd should just come out and fight for 5 rounds only.

That would be really exciting

[Luke]

So you think debuting fighters should fight just as long as the top guys in the world? That's one of the most illogical things I've ever heard.

I agree with Zy on this one . Someone making their debut in MMA shouldnt be fighting the samee length as a championship fight.

In boxing your first 1-4 fights are 6 rounds then you next 1-4 fights are 8,then all the rest are 10 rounds until you fight in championship bouts which are 12

So with that to go off of in MMA your first 1-8 fights should be 3 rounds and everything after should be 5 until you get to a championship bout which should be 7 rounds