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Thread: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

  1. #561
    Senior Member Svino's Avatar
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    Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

    Quote Originally Posted by MMA_scientist
    Some guys don't have money to even enter a bjj tourney, much less train full time.
    Then I doubt they would be able to be the best.

    I just have a different idea than you do about the gap that exists between top level professional and olympic athletes and other guys. You said:

    TO think that MMA has found the one true champ, I just don't think it is likely.
    I'd say that champions in highly competitive sports are "made", not "found". If you don't have the time and the inclination to train your ass off day in and day out, you aren't going to be the best. And the only people who can do that, do it for competition. To take examples even more fundamental than fighting: People in every little corner of the world are running and swimming, far more than the "millions" of fighters. But is there any chance that Usain Bolt is not the fastest sprinter in the world? Or that Michael Phelps is not the best swimmer in his events? No way. Only a completely insane person would train at the level required to match them and then not compete. People just don't do that.


    Exception: I don't yet think women's MMA is yet at the level where this applies.

  2. #562
    Senior Member zY|'s Avatar
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    Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

    Quote Originally Posted by Svino
    Quote Originally Posted by MMA_scientist
    Then I doubt they would be able to be the best.
    Yep.
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  3. #563
    Senior Member SPX's Avatar
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    Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

    Quote Originally Posted by Svino
    If you don't have the time and the inclination to train your ass off day in and day out, you aren't going to be the best.
    What is "day in and day out?"

    For many fighters, this means, maybe, 3 hours a day. Plenty of people who don't fight professionally could train to this extent.

    Look where Shane Carwin's at and he has a day job.
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  4. #564
    Senior Member MMA_scientist's Avatar
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    Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

    Quote Originally Posted by Svino
    Quote Originally Posted by MMA_scientist
    Some guys don't have money to even enter a bjj tourney, much less train full time.
    Then I doubt they would be able to be the best.

    I just have a different idea than you do about the gap that exists between top level professional and olympic athletes and other guys. You said:

    TO think that MMA has found the one true champ, I just don't think it is likely.
    I'd say that champions in highly competitive sports are "made", not "found". If you don't have the time and the inclination to train your ass off day in and day out, you aren't going to be the best. And the only people who can do that, do it for competition. To take examples even more fundamental than fighting: People in every little corner of the world are running and swimming, far more than the "millions" of fighters. But is there any chance that Usain Bolt is not the fastest sprinter in the world? Or that Michael Phelps is not the best swimmer in his events? No way. Only a completely insane person would train at the level required to match them and then not compete. People just don't do that.


    Exception: I don't yet think women's MMA is yet at the level where this applies.

    Well, you see guys comeo out of the woodwork all the time. Take a guy like Patricio Pitbull. None of us had ever heard of this guy, just because he never fought in the U.S. He is probably a top 5 talent @ BW. My point is that there are guys like this everywhere, not just Brazil. Pitbull is probably 1 of about 10 guys in his gym that can fight like that- none of which any of us have ever heard of. "Making it" to the UFC is more about connections than ability. Then there are guys who train with Pitbull, but just can't take a week off of work to come to the U.S. to fight. It's all marketing. There are guys that can kick a lot of ass that we have never heard of. Of course I can't prove it... except to say that guys you have never heard of show up every month and dazzle us. No one knew who Jon Jones was a year ago. Or JDS. Or Cain... and these are the guys that come from famous camps. To think there is not some WW Kamal Shalorus out there.. well I don't believe it.

    I could give you list of all the world class wrestlers from Kazakstan. It would be longer than the list of the UFC roster. Then there are 195 other nations pretty much all of which have some kind of fighting tradition.
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  5. #565
    Senior Member zY|'s Avatar
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    Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

    ^^is Borat in your list? Who gives a shit about Kazakhstan? GSP would beat the shit out of a WW Shalorus. Shalorus got his ass kicked by Jamie Varner. What are we talking about again?

    Obviously guys like that have potential, but that's not what we're talking about. The best fighter in the world is probably some guy who has never even thought about fighting, so in essence, it's irrelevant and we can move on to more tangible things.
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  6. #566
    Senior Member Svino's Avatar
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    Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

    Quote Originally Posted by SPX
    For many fighters, this means, maybe, 3 hours a day. Plenty of people who don't fight professionally could train to this extent.

    Look where Shane Carwin's at and he has a day job.
    Yeah, I admit this is a good point. I am amazed at the fact that Carwin can fight the way he can while keeping his job.

    But yeah, like zY said, even those guys that do come in from unknown camps, like Jones and Pitbull (and Lesnar) are just "good prospects" at first. They don't get anywhere near the top unless they have been truly training for MMA for a while. And I don't believe it's just marketing either, they really need that time to improve. You can tell Cain has gotten a lot better than when he started.

    Anyway, back on the Fedor vs. Werdum topic: here is some discussion of the fight by some Gracies that I found interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1N23qOTqZo

  7. #567
    Senior Member zY|'s Avatar
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    Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

    It ain't like Carwin is holding down a 9 to 5. He pretty much works when he wants/can. He's as much a full time fighter as anyone else. The difference is he doesn't spend the rest of his day playing Call of Duty.
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  8. #568
    10 year vet Luke's Avatar
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    Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

    Cung Le tells MMAWeekly.com he has no interest in fighting in StrikForce’s upcoming middleweight tournament. The former middleweight champion says he intends to sit down with Scott Coker soon to decide his next potential bout


    “You know tournaments, let those young guys do the tour years old, and even though I looked 28 on Saturday, after chips, and cookies in my stomach, I feel like a 38-year-old Strikeforce, and I’m happy that Scott Coker supported me off.

    “I want to sit down with Scott Coker and see what he has i didn’t take that much wear and tear in this fight, and you exactly what I want to do at this point.”
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  9. #569
    Senior Member SPX's Avatar
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    Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

    Quote Originally Posted by Cung Le
    “You know tournaments, let those young guys do the tour years old, and even though I looked 28 on Saturday, after chips, and cookies in my stomach, I feel like a 38-year-old Strikeforce, and I’m happy that Scott Coker supported me off.

    “I want to sit down with Scott Coker and see what he has i didn’t take that much wear and tear in this fight, and you exactly what I want to do at this point.”
    What the fuck? Was this shit translated from English into Vietnamese and then back into English or what?
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  10. #570
    10 year vet Luke's Avatar
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    Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

    Quote Originally Posted by SPX
    Quote Originally Posted by Cung Le
    “You know tournaments, let those young guys do the tour years old, and even though I looked 28 on Saturday, after chips, and cookies in my stomach, I feel like a 38-year-old Strikeforce, and I’m happy that Scott Coker supported me off.

    “I want to sit down with Scott Coker and see what he has i didn’t take that much wear and tear in this fight, and you exactly what I want to do at this point.”
    What the fuck? Was this shit translated from English into Vietnamese and then back into English or what?

    I'd say yes but Cung speaks english so I have no idea
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  11. #571
    Senior Member SPX's Avatar
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    Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

    Quote Originally Posted by Luke
    I'd say yes but Cung speaks english so I have no idea
    I think I can decipher the meaning if I get out my decoder ring, and basically it sounds like Cung's not really interested in being the champ and not really interested in fighting the best. He's at the Randy Couture stage of his career and just wants to take individual fights rather than climbing the ladder.
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  12. #572
    10 year vet Luke's Avatar
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    Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

    Quote Originally Posted by SPX
    Quote Originally Posted by Luke
    I'd say yes but Cung speaks english so I have no idea
    I think I can decipher the meaning if I get out my decoder ring, and basically it sounds like Cung's not really interested in being the champ and not really interested in fighting the best. He's at the Randy Couture stage of his career and just wants to take individual fights rather than climbing the ladder.

    Maybe it was just the writer for the site .This from a different site:

    "You know tournaments, let those young guys do the tournaments. I'm 38 years old, and even though I looked 28 on Saturday, after I put that pizza, chocolate chips, and cookies in my stomach, I feel like a 38-year-old. I'm just happy that I'm with Strikeforce, and I'm happy that Scott Coker supported me in the 21 months that I had off.

    I want to sit down with Scott Coker and see what he has in store for me, but I definitely didn't take that much wear and tear in this fight, and you go through that tournament and you're fighting a lot. There's going to be a lot of wear and tear, and I'm not sure exactly what I want to do at this point"
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  13. #573
    Senior Member SPX's Avatar
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    Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

    Well that's certainly better. But my point stands: He's not really interested in being champ again and he doesn't want to fight the top guys.
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  14. #574
    10 year vet Luke's Avatar
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    Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

    Werdum breaking down the Fedor fight on film. I thought it was neat



    http://www.sherdog.com/videos/recent...ted-Fedor-2530
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  15. #575
    10 year vet Luke's Avatar
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    Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

    Fabricio Werdum's Surgery Is No Guarantee; Neither is Fedor Rematch

    Two things that seemed like definites in Fabricio Werdum's future just a week ago are no longer the locks they once seemed to be.

    First, while Werdum does have an elbow problem that is soon to be addressed, surgery has not yet been recommended by any doctors.

    And second, the rematch with Fedor Emelianenko that Werdum spoke of in the moments right after his stunning upset is no longer first and foremost on the Brazilian's mind.

    News of Werdum's possible year-ending surgery broke about a week ago, but his manager Richard Wilner said his client may have spoken too soon. Surgery is certainly possible, but no guarantee.

    "Dr. Fabricio Werdum is the one who said he needs surgery," he said. "But he hasn't yet been evaluated by a doctor. We have an appointment scheduled for next week, so we are still waiting to hear what the doctors have to say. If sugery is in fact necessary, it would be a very minor thing. It's not a traumatic injury."

    Though Wilner said they're unaware of what exactly the injury is, its effect is more dysfunctional than painful. it doesn't allow Werdum to straighten his left arm, so it always appears in a bent angle.

    "It happens to boxers a lot from repetitive motion," he said. "He's had it for a long time. He's just put off dealing with it for a while because he was training for fights."

    If doctors determine surgery is in fact necessary, Wilner believes it will indeed be minor and only knock him out of action briefly. The next question, then, would be who Werdum might face in his Fedor follow-up.

    In the moments right after the 69-second victory, Werdum said he'd graciously grant Emelianenko a rematch, and even do so on Russian soil. But once he had a chance to sit back and take in the entire situation, other thoughts came into play.

    "That was with the emotions of the fight running high," Wilner said. "Once emotions subside and rationale thought prevails, Fabricio understands there's no upside to a rematch with Fedor unless M-1 puts a significant amount of money on the table. We have no rematch clause in our contract with Strikeforce."

    Told that Strikeforce heavyweight champion Alistair Overeem recently voiced a desire to fight Werdum with the belief that he's "100 percent sure I'm going to beat him," Wilner laughed.

    "He guarantees he'll win, just like the last time Fabricio kicked his ass," he said. (Werdum defeated Overeem by kimura in the 2006 PRIDE Open Weight Grand Prix.)

    "While we're open to the possibility of fighting Fedor again, whatever opportunity that Strikeforce puts in front of us, as long as it makes sense, we'll consider it," Wilner said.
    ..
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  16. #576
    215 Hustler Mr. IWS's Avatar
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    Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

    Wasnt everyone saying Overeem was ducking guys last year? Now he is the only one that wants to fight.
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  17. #577
    Senior Member Ludo's Avatar
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    Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

    Honestly I think this is a little dose of turnabout being fair play in a sense. How many guys got to fight Fedor more than once, especially after getting embarrassed? Neither Coleman nor Minotauro got to rematch Fedor immediately except for the No Contest freak cut that ended the Grand Prix finals that they had to decide a real winner in. In All Fairness the way Fedor was beaten by Werdum should be enough that Fedor should have to fight at least one time between now and the time he rematches Werdum.
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