Bellator 24

[SPX]

I'll be able to contribute better to this tomorrow, after I've watched some tape.

[sideloaded]

Guys I know the Fujii line is ridiculous but if she is gonna win, she's gonna win so you may as well take the money.

[sideloaded]

This is from Josh Barnett's twitter. Megu looks ready!

[sideloaded]

Hey spx are u shadow priest x on sherdog?

[Mr. IWS]

Look at those delts. . .

Looks like she is about to do the perfect plex a la Curt Hennig.

[MMA_scientist]

RE: Judo

I think a lot of noise is made about the gi, but I don't really think it makes that big a difference. You see it in bjj all the time. All the best no-gi grapplers are gi trained (Marcelo Garcia, for example, trains 5 days in the gi and 1 day without the gi).

The problem I have with Judo is how they have gone to an extremely limited rule set to distinguish itself from wrestling and bjj. I actually used to do judo and I like it for what it is. But they recently outlawed double legs and the traditional kata garuma (fireman's carry). You are not allowed to attack teh legs on a first attack, you can grab the leg to counter though. You can only grip both hands on the same side of the gi for like 5 seconds. The sport focuses too much on its cannonized techniques and not enough on pure effectiveness.

As SPX mentioned, the ground work is extremely limited, and a lot of it is focused on stalling. For what its worth, I have rolled with about a dozen judo blackbelts and all of them were whitebelt to blue level on the ground, I had zero problem with any of them. That said, it is well known that the judo ground work level varies a lot- probably about as much as the takedown level vaires in bjj. It is just not a big part of judo. Just as takedowns are not a huge part of bjj, although they are part of the sport.

As far as judo v wrestling... wrestling encompasses everything judo has. The reverse is not true. Judo is too concerned about its traditions and the beuaty of the throws. Wrestling is about getting the guys down, period.

[SPX]

Hey spx are u shadow priest x on sherdog?

Ha ha ha.

Yeah, I am. You must've found my post in the Contenders on the Megumi fight.

[SPX]

The problem I have with Judo is how they have gone to an extremely limited rule set to distinguish itself from wrestling and bjj. I actually used to do judo and I like it for what it is. But they recently outlawed double legs and the traditional kata garuma (fireman's carry). You are not allowed to attack teh legs on a first attack, you can grab the leg to counter though. You can only grip both hands on the same side of the gi for like 5 seconds. The sport focuses too much on its cannonized techniques and not enough on pure effectiveness.

As SPX mentioned, the ground work is extremely limited, and a lot of it is focused on stalling. For what its worth, I have rolled with about a dozen judo blackbelts and all of them were whitebelt to blue level on the ground, I had zero problem with any of them. That said, it is well known that the judo ground work level varies a lot- probably about as much as the takedown level vaires in bjj. It is just not a big part of judo. Just as takedowns are not a huge part of bjj, although they are part of the sport.

This is true, but I feel that I should stress that just because this is what's going on in the competitive world, doesn't mean that this is what the rules are going to be in your dojo.

At my dojo, there were both judo and BJJ instructors, so some of the BJJ ended up carrying over into the judo. So in addition to the pure judo groundwork, you'd also see the occasional triangle and shit like that. Also, my instructors came from wrestling backgrounds, too, and that was obvious in some of the throws and reversals that they taught.

During randori, you were given the latitude to do whatever you wanted, provided the technique wasn't particularly unsafe. So you'd see the whole gamut of judo techniques and a lot of stuff that probably wasn't textbook judo. Hell, there was a Hapkido guy in my class, and from time to time we'd even throw punches and kicks at each other. My instructor didn't give a fuck.

I guess my point is this: 95% of your training time is spent in the dojo, under your instructors training methods, so if you have a good instructor all those stupid ass competition rules are only hindrances on competition day.

[MMA_scientist]

I guess my point is this: 95% of your training time is spent in the dojo, under your instructors training methods, so if you have a good instructor all those stupid ass competition rules are only hindrances on competition day.

Agreed. It all depends on where you train. To me Judo offers the takedowns and the groundwork, so in that sense it is the most complete grappling art. But the takedowns are not as good as wrestlers and the mat work is not as good as bjj stylists, IMO. But that's what happens... because the other arts focus almost exclusively on those aspects.

Still, Judo is legit and I have nothing but respect for most judoka. For self defense, I think judo might be the best honestly. You see guys get ended with a throw and the ground work is more than enough for your average guy.

[SPX]

Still, Judo is legit and I have nothing but respect for most judoka. For self defense, I think judo might be the best honestly. You see guys get ended with a throw and the ground work is more than enough for your average guy.

This is pretty much where it's at.

I see it as kind of like mixed martial artists: MMA fighters will rarely be as good at striking as K-1 guys, or as good at matwork as pure BJJ guys, or as good at wrestling as pure wrestlers, but they're more well-rounded than any of them and are better at going with the fight regardless of what territory the fights goes into.

[MMA_scientist]

This is pretty much where it's at.

I see it as kind of like mixed martial artists: MMA fighters will rarely be as good at striking as K-1 guys, or as good at matwork as pure BJJ guys, or as good at wrestling as pure wrestlers, but they're more well-rounded than any of them and are better at going with the fight regardless of what territory the fights goes into.

True. But the only flaw in that line of thinking is that you see judo guys getting beat even under their own rule set by bjj and wrestling stylists. I was actually heard a judo ref tell a wrestler to "stand up straight, this is judo." Which is wrong anyway, because the russian style of judo is much lower, similar to wrestling. You also see bjj guys get taken down, not for an ippon and then whip out a guard armbar and its over. As for your MMA analogy, I still favor MMA fighters that have a dominant skill (wrestling, bjj, striking).

But we are in agreement, judo is a well rounded grappling style. There are some judoka out there that are really really good on the ground too, and would give even world class bjj guys problems. Your average judo blackbelt is about mid to low blue belt level on the ground though, IME (this jibes with the common wisdom as well. Similarly, your average blackbelt in bjj is probably somewhere between a white and green belt... Some are really good, and some suck badly at takedowns. Most of the older generation bjj blackbelts are also judo blackbelts though

[Havis Jr]

Aguilar is -270


She is a multiple NAGA winner(I don't know exactly how big that tournament is..?), among other grappling credentials. The commentator in this fight goes through a lot of them they seem pretty impressive. She looks about 27-28 years old.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ooZe1RqcjU

[SPX]

Aguilar is -270


She is a multiple NAGA winner(I don't know exactly how big that tournament is..?), among other grappling credentials. The commentator in this fight goes through a lot of them they seem pretty impressive. She looks about 27-28 years old.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ooZe1RqcjU

Hmm, I don't know much about Alvarez, but have gleaned a bit about her looking at her record.

Aguilar is 8-3, with her 3 losses coming from known-good fighters Lisa Ward (13-5) and Carina Damm (15-3). Her other loss is a majority decision to a fighter that she had stopped twice before. She has several wins via submission. Of her 8 wins, most are against either inexperienced fighters or fighters with so-so records (like the 5-5 giant that she triangled in the vid you posted). However, two of her wins are against Angela Magana (8-4), who happens to be the only person to beat Alvarez.

Alvarez is 5-1, with all wins coming by stoppage (4 submissions, and 1 TKO). Most of her wins are against inexperienced fighters, but she does hold a win against Michelle Waterson (a.k.a. The Karate Hottie), who is 8-3 in MMA.

Due to an experience advantage, better credentials, and wins over more impressive fighters, Aguilar will probably win. But I would be hesitant to take her at the current line, considering Alvarez looks like she could be a serious up-and-comer.

Oh, and for illustrative purposes, here are some pics of Michelle Waterson:

[poopoo333]

Kind of going out on the limb with this one... 1.9u on Sanchez @-190

[SPX]

So what time does this shit start tonight?

[zY|]

Haven't looked but normally it's 7CST.

[Luke]

So what time does this shit start tonight?

8pm eastern I think

[SPX]

Okay, thanks you two.

Glad it's not like way the fuck late like Strikeforce sometimes is.

[SPX]

So for those picking Sanchez to win, why?

[Ludo]

So for those picking Sanchez to win, why?

Because your mom picked Sanchez to win.