UFC 129 toronto GSP-Shields

[SPX]

I don't think anyone really shit on Judo, but there just wasn't much talk about it. And the Judo stylists who entered in the early UFCs didn't do that hot. But today I hear quite a bit about Judo on forums and shit. One thing I've noticed is that it only takes one or two guys who use a style successfully in MMA for that style to suddenly be respected in the fan community. "He's a 3rd degree Shotokan blackbelt" either would go unmentioned as any sort of legitimate credential for MMA a few years ago, or it would be said derisively. I think there's still a good bit of that, but the situation is certainly different now than it used to be.

[SPX]

They reunited most of the Karate Kid cast for this one:

This was pretty cool. Thanks for posting. The tournament scene at the end was bad ass.

Those guys really don't look much older than they did 25 years ago.

[Svino]

Those guys really don't look much older than they did 25 years ago.

Yeah, Ralph Macchio in particular. Dude is in his mid-late 40s and I could have easily confused him for a guy in his 20s there.

[Ludo]

Yeah, Ralph Macchio in particular. Dude is in his mid-late 40s and I could have easily confused him for a guy in his 20s there.

Emanuelle Lewis looks about the same too.

[Svino]

Emanuelle Lewis looks about the same too.

LOL. Fun fact: Emanuelle Lewis is a 1st degree black-belt in TKD under Billy Blanks.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...0/ai_78790434/

[Ludo]

LOL. Fun fact: Emanuelle Lewis is a 1st degree black-belt in TKD under Billy Blanks.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...0/ai_78790434/

I didn't know they gave out belts in Tae Bo.

[MMA_scientist]

I don't think anyone really shit on Judo, but there just wasn't much talk about it. And the Judo stylists who entered in the early UFCs didn't do that hot. But today I hear quite a bit about Judo on forums and shit. One thing I've noticed is that it only takes one or two guys who use a style successfully in MMA for that style to suddenly be respected in the fan community. "He's a 3rd degree Shotokan blackbelt" either would go unmentioned as any sort of legitimate credential for MMA a few years ago, or it would be said derisively. I think there's still a good bit of that, but the situation is certainly different now than it used to be.

I don't know, I always saw judo as viable. I think the difference is that "judo black belt" or 1st dan or whatever they call it, really doesn't mean much or earn the respect the way a bjj bb does. I think that is fair though, as you can get a judo blackbelt in a couple of years of regular training, whereas a bjj bb would GENERALLY require 8-12 years of regular training. I mean a lot of these bjj guys from brazil are also judo blackbelts (little known fact, Judo is actually more popular in Brazil than BJJ). But when someone comes in with actual judo cred (not just rank) it is talked about.

As for tai chi and aikido... I think they can be successful in the same way capoeira has some practitioners. It gives you balance and coordination. If you also know what you are doing for real and not just Aikido, you can start to add in some crazy techniques like Anderson Silva does. But as for an actual base style that is functional, I really do not see that happening. There are some things that just are not viable, and Aikido is one of those things. It can help in the same way yoga or ballet or gymnastics helps. They don't even train resistance... so I dont' see how it can be effective. It is like saying cardio kickboxing or tae bo is effective, minus the cardio.

I never saw karate as the same type of thing. To me, there are core arts that you know are effective: Wrestling, BJJ, Judo, Sambo, Muy Thai, kickboxing, Boxing. Then there are arts you think could work if trained properly, in that category I put Karate, Savate, Kung Fu, TKD, Japanese Jujitsu, and a few other things. Then there is stuff that is just bullshit, like ninjitsu, Aikido and anything decribed as "too deadly for mma."

I guess I am just jaded from seeing so many of these clowns steal money from thier minions and teach them nothing while lying to them. About 6 times a year someone with a TMA background will wander into the gym any just be shocked that they are totally helpless... I generally think that most TMA people are scam artists. Many of these guys prey upon the type of people who seek that stuff out and then fill their heads with nonsense. It sia cult mentality, and when I see these Aikido guys flying across the room because of the master's touch, it irritates me.

[MMA_scientist]

Just read the comments in this video... that pretty much sums up everything you need to know about Aikido

:

[Svino]

Just read the comments in this video... that pretty much sums up everything you need to know about Aikido

Reading comments like that always makes me long for the old-school days of style vs. style UFC events. It also makes me frustrated that we can't get more of these people involved in MMA betting.

I have a friend who has been into Aikido for a decade or so. I have to suppress my eye-rolls around him, although they do some actual sparring. He clearly does have some skill in what I would call "Judo", but I'm sure he's picked it up at a far far slower rate than if he were training it properly.

[zY|]

I looked up Emmanuel Lewis and I still have no idea who he is.

[SPX]

I don't know, I always saw judo as viable. I think the difference is that "judo black belt" or 1st dan or whatever they call it, really doesn't mean much or earn the respect the way a bjj bb does. I think that is fair though, as you can get a judo blackbelt in a couple of years of regular training, whereas a bjj bb would GENERALLY require 8-12 years of regular training. I mean a lot of these bjj guys from brazil are also judo blackbelts (little known fact, Judo is actually more popular in Brazil than BJJ). But when someone comes in with actual judo cred (not just rank) it is talked about.

Not sure where you came up with that figure about 2 years for a Judo blackbelt. When I used to train, there was a guy there who trained 5 days a week. If the doors were open and a class was going in, he was in it, and I remember the instructor telling me that this guy would probably make it to black belt in 3 years. For the average 2 or 3 nights a week kind of person, it would be more like 5 or 6 years. Coming from a ATA TKD background where you really can get a black belt in like two years, that seems like a shitload of time to me to get to a point where "the basics have been learned and now deeper knowledge can begin."

Regarding you seeing judo as viable, I don't doubt that's the case, but you've trained in it and have a lot of grappling experience. I think that most people just didn't know much about it, and just knew that it was some older Asian martial art, so it can't possibly be worth anything.

As for tai chi and aikido... I think they can be successful in the same way capoeira has some practitioners. It gives you balance and coordination. If you also know what you are doing for real and not just Aikido, you can start to add in some crazy techniques like Anderson Silva does. But as for an actual base style that is functional, I really do not see that happening. There are some things that just are not viable, and Aikido is one of those things. It can help in the same way yoga or ballet or gymnastics helps. They don't even train resistance... so I dont' see how it can be effective. It is like saying cardio kickboxing or tae bo is effective, minus the cardio.

I don't know. I think one thing that may be true about a lot of the more traditional styles is that only a handful of people really possess the necessary physical and mental attributes to make them successful. I watched that Aikido vid and it wasn't like a lot of what I've seen where a guy will punch and leave his arm out there and then the other guy will react against a compliant opponent. It was at least fluid. Where he strikes to the throat and then immediately goes for a throw looked realistic to me. I could see someone who has very good reaction time and who has drilled this sort of thing to the point to where it's second nature actually be able to make it work, especially against some untrained average street person.

I never saw karate as the same type of thing. To me, there are core arts that you know are effective: Wrestling, BJJ, Judo, Sambo, Muy Thai, kickboxing, Boxing. Then there are arts you think could work if trained properly, in that category I put Karate, Savate, Kung Fu, TKD, Japanese Jujitsu, and a few other things. Then there is stuff that is just bullshit, like ninjitsu, Aikido and anything decribed as "too deadly for mma."

I agree that the way an art is trained has a lot to do with it. That's why I got out of that bullshit TKD class that I started last summer. It was terrible and I quickly butted heads with the instructor. It was bad enough to where they told other instructors not to teach me because I wouldn't respect them or respect taekwondo. But that's not true at all, as everyone here knows. I respect TKD and I think that TKD can be an effective martial art, both for the ring and the street. But I don't respect the way that most schools that teach traditional martial arts don't teach those styles in a way that's realistic or that leads to effective fighting skills.

Many traditional styles really have become martial arts for women and children, but not because they're not useful fighting forms. It's because these schools have been overrun by hobbyists who just want to get in shape and teachers who either a) have given in and realized that these are the sorts of classes they have to teach in order to stay in business, or b) have lost touch with reality and don't realize that their systems have to be pressure tested.

By the way, regarding ninjutsu, I actually have trained with a guy who has rank in To Shin Do, which is basically traditional togakure-ryu ninjutsu repackaged for modern audiences. I actually think there is some useful stuff there. He was showing it me some stuff a few months ago and I have to admit I was more impressed than I expected to be. And it really is pure self-defense kind of stuff. It wouldn't translate well into MMA, but I could see a person defending themself with it in situation where there are no rules.

I guess I am just jaded from seeing so many of these clowns steal money from thier minions and teach them nothing while lying to them. About 6 times a year someone with a TMA background will wander into the gym any just be shocked that they are totally helpless... I generally think that most TMA people are scam artists. Many of these guys prey upon the type of people who seek that stuff out and then fill their heads with nonsense. It sia cult mentality, and when I see these Aikido guys flying across the room because of the master's touch, it irritates me.

I agree. That goes back to a lot of what I was saying earlier. And you're right, there really is a cultish mentality in a lot of situations. I've encountered this several times. Luckily there are still some good and open-minded teachers out there who are keeping it real, so to speak.

[poopoo333]

[poopoo333]

I become a bigger fan of him every time he does an interview.

[MMA_scientist]

Not sure where you came up with that figure about 2 years for a Judo blackbelt.

Just from reading online. A lot of judo guys in the grappling forum say that in Japan, it is about 1 year of regular training for a bb. Also there are a lot of paths to bb... I know a guy who basically got his bb by taking his daughter to a lot of tournaments (at least that is how he described it). He trains also, but you get "points" for doing certain things like competing and coaching... Anyway, I have first hand knowledge but from sources I trust I have heard that in Japan it can be done in 1 year.

[MMA_scientist]

Reading comments like that always makes me long for the old-school days of style vs. style UFC events. It also makes me frustrated that we can't get more of these people involved in MMA betting.

I have a friend who has been into Aikido for a decade or so. I have to suppress my eye-rolls around him, although they do some actual sparring. He clearly does have some skill in what I would call "Judo", but I'm sure he's picked it up at a far far slower rate than if he were training it properly.

When I run into a TMA guy, I usually just play along... it is not worth getting into an argument about for me, and besides that, most of them can never admit that they spent 10 years basically learning to dance.

If it slips out that I practice jj, someone almost always says.... "Oh I did X". I usually just go, "oh cool, that stuff looks pretty cool. What I do looks pretty stupid, it has no grace comparitively." Or something like that. It is my backhanded way of insulting them without them knowing it.

Some of these places "spar" but it is within the confines of that game. You can't throw someone by their fingers... it is flat out impossible. People don't stand there or bum rush with their arms out like a mummy. Honestly, it is really damn difficult to wrist lock someone period unless you control their whole body (like from an omoplata- or you get it from mount). You basically have to isolate that joint where they can't get it away or turn their body out of it. Aside from that, a broken wrist or finger is not going to stop anyone. Hell, a broken arm probably wouldn't stop most guys. That is why I believe in chokes and punching people.

[MMA_scientist]

I don't know if you guys have ever heard of Tai Chi Push Hands or Joshua Waitzkin. Waitzkin is the kid the movie "Searching for Bobby Fischer" is about. Since I am a chess nerd, that is one of my favorite movies and I have followed Waitzkin somewhat. He grew up to become a Tai Chi Push Hands champion. He is now a 4 stripe brown belt in BJJ under Marcelo Garcia. He wrote a book called "The Art of Learning" which I recommend highly. It is sort of an autobiography/theory on how to learn to be awesome at everything.

ANYWAY- Tai Chi push hands is what Aikido would look like against a resisting opponent, but only if he was not allowed to grab you at all. It basically becomes and armdragging drill (something you do to warm up in wrestling).

See it here:

[Ludo]

Hell, a broken arm probably wouldn't stop most guys. That is why I believe in chokes and punching people.

There's an old addage in Sambo that translates something like "one broken leg equals three men lost". It's about warfare and how if one man's leg is broken it takes two more to carry him away.

[SPX]

Just from reading online. A lot of judo guys in the grappling forum say that in Japan, it is about 1 year of regular training for a bb. Also there are a lot of paths to bb... I know a guy who basically got his bb by taking his daughter to a lot of tournaments (at least that is how he described it). He trains also, but you get "points" for doing certain things like competing and coaching... Anyway, I have first hand knowledge but from sources I trust I have heard that in Japan it can be done in 1 year.

I only have experience at the one school I trained at, but there at least, you weren't getting a black belt in a year regardless of what you did. Like I said, that one guy I mentioned (whom I hated) was ALWAYS fucking there and he was on track to get his in about 3 years. It was basically like Penn getting his BJJ BB on an accelerated track.

[SPX]

When I run into a TMA guy, I usually just play along... it is not worth getting into an argument about for me, and besides that, most of them can never admit that they spent 10 years basically learning to dance.

If it slips out that I practice jj, someone almost always says.... "Oh I did X". I usually just go, "oh cool, that stuff looks pretty cool. What I do looks pretty stupid, it has no grace comparitively." Or something like that. It is my backhanded way of insulting them without them knowing it.

Some of these places "spar" but it is within the confines of that game. You can't throw someone by their fingers... it is flat out impossible. People don't stand there or bum rush with their arms out like a mummy. Honestly, it is really damn difficult to wrist lock someone period unless you control their whole body (like from an omoplata- or you get it from mount). You basically have to isolate that joint where they can't get it away or turn their body out of it. Aside from that, a broken wrist or finger is not going to stop anyone. Hell, a broken arm probably wouldn't stop most guys. That is why I believe in chokes and punching people.

I have two things to say:

1. I try to talk to them a bit and see what their training is actually like. But I agree that usually I'm just like, "Okay, whatever" or worse, I actually start to argue with them.

2. EVERYONE spars within "the confines of that game." Doesn't matter if it's TKD or MT or BJJ.

[SPX]

I don't know if you guys have ever heard of Tai Chi Push Hands or Joshua Waitzkin. Waitzkin is the kid the movie "Searching for Bobby Fischer" is about. Since I am a chess nerd, that is one of my favorite movies and I have followed Waitzkin somewhat. He grew up to become a Tai Chi Push Hands champion. He is now a 4 stripe brown belt in BJJ under Marcelo Garcia. He wrote a book called "The Art of Learning" which I recommend highly. It is sort of an autobiography/theory on how to learn to be awesome at everything.

I know who Josh is and I have seen Searching for Bobby Fischer many, many times. I actually used to kind of be into chess when I was a teenager. Not to the point of entering tournaments or anything (I was never good enough to win), but I bought a few books and even had a little portable chess computer thing that I would carry around with me and play whenever I was just sitting somewhere waiting on something.

I didn't know Josh was into martial arts that's interesting.

ANYWAY- Tai Chi push hands is what Aikido would look like against a resisting opponent, but only if he was not allowed to grab you at all. It basically becomes and armdragging drill (something you do to warm up in wrestling).

You know, I've heard that there was a competitive facet to Tai Chi and I never understood how that was possible. It seemed like a misnomer. Now that I have seen it in action, I still don't get it. I don't even understand what was happening there, what the competition was, or how that guy actually won.

When I think martial arts I think that there's something about it that can be damaging, whether it's strikes, or throws, or locks, or chokes, or whatever.