2012 Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

[SPX]

Random question:

Presuming everyone works equally as hard, what's more important, natural talent or expert training?

For instance, is there a trainer in the world who could make Leonard Garcia a significantly better fighter? Or if GSP trained exclusively at a 2nd rate gym, would he still be champ?

You get the idea. Discuss.

[poopoo333]

I'm sure it goes hand in hand, but natural talent is probably a huge factor. It's kind of difficult for me to elaborate on though.

[zY|]

GSP did train at a 2nd rate gym when he became champ.

Leonard Garcia, no.

Natural talent by a lot, IMO. Granted, he still needs to be getting OK training, at least. 2nd rate, not 3rd or 4th.

[poopoo333]

On this subject...how about physical features for something like wrestling/BJJ? I guess this is more for someone like scientist. I was wondering.. I have the shorter legs/arms..thicker back/shoulders etc etc you know the deal..but I am actually real flexible. I feel like I am never going to ever be a real good guard player..it seems like most of them are a little bit longer/thinner

[SPX]

I'm sure it goes hand in hand, but natural talent is probably a huge factor. It's kind of difficult for me to elaborate on though.

GSP did train at a 2nd rate gym when he became champ.

Leonard Garcia, no.

Natural talent by a lot, IMO. Granted, he still needs to be getting OK training, at least. 2nd rate, not 3rd or 4th.

Yeah, could be. We definitely have seen how fighters hit a ceiling, regardless of what kind of training they receive.

But we also see how much TUF guys progress after they get with a really high-quality camp.

[SPX]

On this subject...how about physical features for something like wrestling/BJJ? I guess this is more for someone like scientist. I was wondering.. I have the shorter legs/arms..thicker back/shoulders etc etc you know the deal..but I am actually real flexible. I feel like I am never going to ever be a real good guard player..it seems like most of them are a little bit longer/thinner

I really don't know, but I have to assume your strength will be such a big advantage that you'll be able to muscle almost everyone, especially once you've gotten some experience under your belt.

[poopoo333]

Yeah, they progress well, but they usually have a ceiling as well I would think. I think a good example of a champ with outstanding athletic ability along with gradually increased technical skills is Ben Henderson. The thing is, I don't think he is really with that great of a camp as far as I know...I may be wrong on that though. I just know it's not a "name camp"

[MMA_scientist]

Yeah, that's what everybody else was wearing..the starter brand. Short sleeve or long sleeve..does it matter? I am pretty sure I am going to start needing to bring a towel to dry off and an extra shirt to wear on the (kind of) long drive home. And yeah, I used to train in gi, so some of this was hard. I was drilling and grappling with a girl at first, and with her shaved sweaty legs......now I know what Joe Rogan means when he freaks out about how "MIKE, THEY ARE VERY SWEATY AND SLIPPERY. IT'S VERY INTERESTING TO SEE IF HE CAN GET THE SUBMISSION!!"

I wear long sleeves. Absorbs sweat, less chance of skin disease

[MMA_scientist]

On this subject...how about physical features for something like wrestling/BJJ? I guess this is more for someone like scientist. I was wondering.. I have the shorter legs/arms..thicker back/shoulders etc etc you know the deal..but I am actually real flexible. I feel like I am never going to ever be a real good guard player..it seems like most of them are a little bit longer/thinner

Short linbs have advantages too. See marcelo garcia. Just play thegame you fell comfortable with. I have a good guard, but almost no subs beacuse my hip flexibility is not good. Butbi can sweep everyone. Your dtrength is going to be really hard to deal with, combined with short linbs, it is probably really hard to sub you with arm bars and key locks. You will eventually develop a game that fits your body... that is the beautybof grappling. One of the things i enjoy is the personal expression through my individual style, it is artistic expression.

[MMA_scientist]

Random question:

Presuming everyone works equally as hard, what's more important, natural talent or expert training?

For instance, is there a trainer in the world who could make Leonard Garcia a significantly better fighter? Or if GSP trained exclusively at a 2nd rate gym, would he still be champ?

You get the idea. Discuss.

It is a sliding scale. The thing is training can be trained, genetics... not so much. If you can have only one- training is better. If you want to be a world champ- ability is better imo

[SPX]

Well let's add hard work into the equation.

Does natural ability usually trump hard work or is it putting in the hours that counts the most? If GSP got lazy and started doing only two week camps would it catch up with him?

[Luke]

Well let's add hard work into the equation.

Does natural ability usually trump hard work or is it putting in the hours that counts the most? If GSP got lazy and started doing only two week camps would it catch up with him?

Mike Tyson

[SPX]

Care to elaborate?

[zY|]

It is a sliding scale. The thing is training can be trained, genetics... not so much. If you can have only one- training is better. If you want to be a world champ- ability is better imo

This is pretty much what I was saying. A completely untrained super athlete is going to get smashed by any moderately trained fighter. But at what point of training is the discrepancy overcome?

We need svino to post a graph.

[Svino]

Well, I don't know about a graph, but I pretty much agree with you guys. I think the curve would be U-shaped:

For low levels of training and competition, athleticism would matter more. But when comparing people with significant training, I think the quality of training would become more important. But at the highest levels of the sport, high athleticism is basically a requirement and may become more important again.

[zY|]

Fuck you. I want my parabola.

[Luke]

Care to elaborate?

Tyson had the most talent in the world but quit training hard and was KTFO by Buster Douglas

[SPX]

Okay, a follow up to my earlier question: How important is coaching between rounds? That is, how often does a coach's advice between rounds actually change the outcome of the fight?

[SPX]

Anyone here seen the movie The Way? Directed by Emilio Estevez?

It's good. It's on Netflix.

[SPX]

If anyone has Netflix and wants to see one of the best documentaries ever made, watch The Weather Underground.