Official IWS Traditional Martial Arts Thread

[SPX]

Yes, well the most common question surrounding kenpo has to do with whether or not the techniques could be pulled off against a non-compliant opponent.

Personally, I think the interesting thing is that Ed Parker--who had learned Kenpo earlier in his life in Hawaii--modified the style significantly based upon his own real-world fighting experience. Like Bruce Lee, he was known to get into tussles on the street and he developed his "American Kenpo Karate" to be effective based upon his real-world encounters.

In the beginning it looked a lot more linear and karate-like, but as time went on he added in a lot more kung fu-based circular movements and he built the techs to flow according to the natural movement of the human body.

Recently, Jeff Speakman--the guy who starred in The Perfect Weapon--further modified the Kenpo that he learned from Parker to account for boxing-style punches and he also added in some SD oriented submission grappling.

Personally, Kenpo is fascinating to me. I'm not sure how realistic it is, but I'd like to learn it one day if only because there is such an interesting history behind it and the theory behind the system is compelling.

[Ludo]

Yes, well the most common question surrounding kenpo has to do with whether or not the techniques could be pulled off against a compliant opponent.

Personally, I think the interesting thing is that Ed Parker--who had learned Kenpo earlier in his life in Hawaii--modified the style significantly based upon his own real-world fighting experience. Like Bruce Lee, he was known to get into tussles on the street and he developed his "American Kenpo Karate" to be effective based upon his real-world encounters.

In the beginning it looked a lot more linear and karate-like, but as time went on he added in a lot more kung fu-based circular movements and he built the techs to flow according to the natural movement of the human body.

Recently, Jeff Speakman--the guy who starred in The Perfect Weapon--further modified the Kenpo that he learned from Parker to account for boxing-style punches and he also added in some SD oriented submission grappling.

Personally, Kenpo is fascinating to me. I'm not sure how realistic it is, but I'd like to learn it one day if only because there is such an interesting history behind it and the theory behind the system is compelling.

Yeah, when he started using back foot crossing is when he lost Me in that second video. Like I said I like how it all starts off, the catching of the hand and then going to the groin or ribs but the moment he starts letting go of the arm or not controlling the body with the head/neck is when I see holes in things. Personally I thought almost every single technique he did to a "grounded opponent" was pure horse shit. Half steps and sliding heel stomps with your back turned to the guy is completely ridiculous.

When he strayed from straight arm strikes is when he really started to get into the "high level" type stuff and the more he got into that territory the less viable it became for real world use. As far as fusion styles go it started off in the right direction, but seemed to deteriorate in the spirit of trying to be something more than it needed to be. Alot of wasted motion there.

[Ludo]

I also didn't like his analogy between western boxing and "Oriental boxing". Especially since many traditional martial arts stances don't allow for as much power to be harnessed in the strike itself. Boxing may be a more simplistic style that focuses on two "poisons" or points of contact, but it also produces a sort of specific expertise. Even in various martial arts you get guys who excel in one area. Like how some jiu jitsu guys are choke guys, while others are top control specialists. Or how some guys are great with kicks while others are brilliant counter fighters. I felt his view on western boxing in that regard was particularly disrespectful. He came off as smug to Me in that portion of the interview.

[SPX]

Did you ever see The Perfect Weapon?

[Ludo]

Did you ever see The Perfect Weapon?

I don't remember that one, no. But Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa is pretty much a staple from any martial arts film back then.

[SPX]

I felt his view on western boxing in that regard was particularly disrespectful. He came off as smug to Me in that portion of the interview.

Maybe so. My guess is that he might have been kind of a cocky guy in general.

[SPX]

I don't remember that one, no. But Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa is pretty much a staple from any martial arts film back then.

Oh, well you should check it out. It's the only movie that I know of where the star is a Kenpo guy. So if you want to see more kenpo, or at least movie kenpo, watch that shit.

Like I said, Speakman continues to teach and give seminars even today 21 years later, and has developed his own "Kenpo 5.0" system.

[Ludo]

Maybe so. My guess is that he might have been kind of a cocky guy in general.

He definitely comes off that way.

[SPX]

He was a big name in American martial arts back in the day. You remember that scene in Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story where Bruce is at the karate tournament getting heckled for his theories and then has to kick that dude's ass in 60 seconds? That tournament was Ed Parker's Long Beach International.

[Ludo]

He was a big name in American martial arts back in the day. You remember that scene in Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story where Bruce is at the karate tournament getting heckled for his theories and then has to kick that dude's ass in 60 seconds? That tournament was Ed Parker's Long Beach International.

Yeah, and it turned out to be the same guy who broke his back with the liu kang dragon kick. I didn't know that, though, that's pretty interesting all things considered. I wouldn't have thought he'd give so much thought to things given his heritage in hawaii. Usually hawaiians don't give a fuck about anything not on the islands.

[SPX]

That's the impression I get about Hawaiians from watching Dog: The Bounty Hunter. It's like it's own country or some shit.

Ed Parker was a fascinating figure. I'd like to make a documentary about him and his influence on the American martial arts scene. It was significant.

[Ludo]

Any thoughts on Bartitsu, X?

[SPX]

I can't remember where or when I first heard of Bartitsu, but I remember hearing about it and reading the Wikipedia article. Pretty interesting stuff and one of the first (or THE first) fusions of European and Asian martial arts. Seems unfortunate that it had a period of popularity and then just kind of faded away.

Your thoughts?

[Ludo]

I can't remember where or when I first heard of Bartitsu, but I remember hearing about it and reading the Wikipedia article. Pretty interesting stuff and one of the first (or THE first) fusions of European and Asian martial arts. Seems unfortunate that it had a period of popularity and then just kind of faded away.

Your thoughts?

It strikes Me as one of the first complete systems in the modern age of the western world(and by that I mean the time in which man was technologically advanced past the use of the sword and shield). Incorporating four point striking, some kind of grappling and the use of an every day object really is the quintessential aim for all self defense systems the world over. It allowed the average man to be potentially be a grade A badass and look like john everyman at the same time, also an aim for most self defense systems.

Instead of just being a catch wrestler, or just a boxer, or just a brawling thug this system allowed someone to be capable of at least defending themselves as any or all of the above should the situation require it.

But the fact that it just kind of came and went as fast as it did makes it somewhat fascinating.

[SPX]

I agree. It's quite interesting. I would really like to see it in action.

According to Wikipedia, there has been a revival of interest in the system over the last decade. However, from what I can tell, they are essentially trying to recreate the system by studying existing material produced by the founder, rather than the system actually having survived intact over the years. This makes me wonder how accurate their reproduction is.

The use of the walking stick is particularly interesting. Use of weapons is something that many otherwise complete systems still lack even today.

[SPX]

Ludo, let's try to find a download for this. . .

[Ludo]

I agree. It's quite interesting. I would really like to see it in action.

According to Wikipedia, there has been a revival of interest in the system over the last decade. However, from what I can tell, they are essentially trying to recreate the system by studying existing material produced by the founder, rather than the system actually having survived intact over the years. This makes me wonder how accurate their reproduction is.

The use of the walking stick is particularly interesting. Use of weapons is something that many otherwise complete systems still lack even today.

Yeah, the problem with weapons on the whole is that people, sane and moral people anyway, have a fear of inflicting permanent harm on one another. Plus it's odd anymore to see anyone who isn't blind or geriatric to have a cane.

[Ludo]

Ludo, let's try to find a download for this. . .

Negative. I can't even find hints or traces of that shit anywhere. I don't think anyone has it.

[SPX]

Yeah, the problem with weapons on the whole is that people, sane and moral people anyway, have a fear of inflicting permanent harm on one another.

Yeah, that's true. I have that fear even without weapons. People have died or ended up permanently injured even from just taking a punch, or from a secondary impact like getting punched, falling and then hitting their head on something.

Plus it's odd anymore to see anyone who isn't blind or geriatric to have a cane.

That's true, but this kind of makes me want to start carrying one. Especially if it's a cane sword.

[SPX]

Negative. I can't even find hints or traces of that shit anywhere. I don't think anyone has it.

I couldn't find it either.

I'll probably actually buy it at some point. . .

http://www.freelanceacademypress.com/bartitsu.aspx