Fighters you cant stand

[MMA_scientist]

Re: Fighters you cant stand

I disagree. Even if you are doing no damage, you don't get stood up from a dominant position. You can work for the sub without punching. If a guy has your back, he does not have to keep punching you. He can work for the choke without fear of the standup. I do not think I have ever seen a side control standup (or mount or back control) at a major show, aside from this one.

As to whether he would have been subbed, I guess we will never know. Even if he didn't, he could have regrouped between rounds and come out and got the takedown again. But, we'll never know, because the ref screwed him.

A couple of things. . .

1. There are plenty of complaints about standups. I don't know if I have ever seen a side-control stand up or not. I haven't paid enough attention to remember what position everyone was in. But I do know that you can get stood up from a "dominant position" because if you're on top you're in a dominant position . . and guys get stood up while they're on top all the time if they're not actively doing damage or going for a sub. Which brings me to. . .

2. All of Nelson's sub attempts were in the first round, while he got KOd in the second. Also, if you look, he's not stood up while he actually has a sub-attempt locked in. When he was actively going for subs, the ref let him work. It wasn't until he let go that the ref intervened. Was it a bad stand-up? Maybe. But not bad enough to be like, "I will not consider that a legitimate win," because if you're going to discount fighters' wins every time there's a bad stand up, or things don't go exactly how you think they should, then you'll have to throw out a LOT of wins. If there had been a bad stoppage, then I may be inclined to say the win is "illegitimate." But the fact of the matter is that AA legitimately knocked him the fucked out.

With that said, AA needs to improve his boxing defense. He gets hit too much.

I guess we just define a dominant position differently. Being in someone's guard or even half guard is considered a neutral position. You don't have any advantage just by being on top... so a standup from there is not the same as a standup from side control, which is a true dominant spot. You can sub a guy or sweep him from guard, you can't do a thing from under side control, or mount. You have to first get to a neutral position, by either re-guarding or standing up.

Personally, I think ALL standups are BS. But I don't even think there is an argument about standing a guy up from side control. If the guy on bottom wants out, he has to escape.

As for the KO, yes. BUt at that point, we were already in a BS parallel universe where Roy wasn't controlling AA. So to borrow some legal parlance, anything after the standup is "fruit of the poisonous tree" and should be suppressed.

[SPX]

Re: Fighters you cant stand

As for the KO, yes. BUt at that point, we were already in a BS parallel universe where Roy wasn't controlling AA. So to borrow some legal parlance, anything after the standup is "fruit of the poisonous tree" and should be suppressed.

Well again, most of Roy's ground dominance was in round 1, not round 2. So I don't see how it really mattered. Roy may very well have won the first round on points as it is. But really, is this to say that you discount EVERY win in which there was a bad standup?

As for all standups being BS, well, that's the sport. Maybe it's me being selfish as a fan, but I honestly want some safeguard against LnP. It's fucking boring to see a dude just lay on top of someone without doing any damage. If there were no standups, would it change the outcome of a lot of fights? Sure it would. But the fighters know that that's part of the game, so once you get your opponent down you better do something with it. As long as they understand that, then it's all good.

[zY|]

Re: Fighters you cant stand

If the guy on the bottom can't offer any offense or get up, then tough shit. I'm against standups almost entirely. Getting rid of shit judges who score for the guy on top who isn't doing anything would fix the problem. Look at Diego/Guida Round 2. Sure Guida was on top of Diego most of the round, but Diego outstruck him like 5-1 with power shots from the bottom. Clearly offense and winning the round, yet one judge gave him the round for just being on top and doing nothing. I believe it's getting better but still.

I'm not going to go so far as to say it was not a legitimate loss for Roy, but it was definitely the worst standup I've ever seen. I'll just blame EliteXC.

Anyways, that's just my take on it.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: Fighters you cant stand

^^ I pretty much agree.

the judges are all idiots, so that it is the main problem. I think they should not reward the lay and pray, and there would be no incentive to do it. Problem solved. But this holding on and looking at the ref for help is crap, it will ruin the sport if it continues. The commissions seriously need to get some legitimate judges though.

That and referee stoppages. "Well he has hit him in the shoulder like 20 times, I guess I should tackle him very dramatically."

[zY|]

Re: Fighters you cant stand

That and referee stoppages. "Well he has hit him in the shoulder like 20 times, I guess I should tackle him very dramatically."

Oh lord don't even get me started on this.

[Mr. IWS]

Re: Fighters you cant stand

This actually cracked me up about Barnett:

http://www.cagepotato.com/josh-barnett- ... e-bob-sapp

Josh Barnett's appeal of his denial of licensure in the state of California was postponed for a fourth time yesterday, after Barnett failed to show up to the hearing. The Babyface Assassin had a good excuse, though — he was busy beating down Bob Sapp at an Inoki Genome Federation pro-wrestling event in Tokyo. Though Barnett's attorney appeared at the hearing, it wasn't good enough for the California State Athletic Commission, which rescheduled his case until April 20th. Said Barnett's attorney, Michael J. DiMaggio:
“We’ve been diligently preparing to present Mr. Barnett’s case and his defense, and he was unable to be here today and we are extremely shocked and disappointed that the commission ruled that they would not go forward with the hearing without Mr. Barnett being present. It’s particularly surprising in light of the fact that we’re not aware of any rule or regulation that insists that he be here...This is obviously the commission’s rules, which are very vague and unknown to us...Presenting issues and raising issues relating to the test results, the chain of custody, the protocol, those type of issues are issues that can be addressed without Mr. Barnett being present. His presence and his ability to be cross-examined is irrelevant to those issues.”

But according to new CSAC Executive Director George Dodd, Barnett was informed by letter that he'd have to appear in person: “The letter is very clear that you must appear before the commission. It doesn’t say anything else besides appear. You can bring counsel, but it says the word ‘appear’ in there.”

Josh Barnett hasn't competed in MMA since testing positive for the anabolic steroid Drostanolone last July, which led to a cancellation of his scheduled Affliction: Trilogy match against Fedor Emelianenko, and the eventual scrapping of Affliction's MMA promotion. Barnett vowed to appeal the test results, but his hearings have been pushed back due to additional time needed to gather information from the testing facility and inclement weather. Regarding the 4/20 date of the next hearing, DiMaggio wrung his hands about the futility of it all: “That will be nine months into the ineligibility of Mr. Barnett, which begins to beg the question…at what point does it become worth it to pursue this versus just waiting out the ineligibility period and preparing to move on?”

[MMA_scientist]

Re: Fighters you cant stand

^^

Someone needs to kick Barnett in the nuts for real

[Mr. IWS]

Re: Fighters you cant stand

Rematch with Bob Sapp maybe? No drug testing over there, so Joshey should be good to go.

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/?go=new ... gid=221559

Former UFC, Pride and Affliction fighter, Josh Barnett, has found a new home in Japan as the heavyweight stand-out has signed with Dream and will likely make his promotional debut at their March 22 show later this month.

It appears that for the time being, Barnett will make his living in MMA back in Japan. While no opponent has been named yet, rumors have circled that several fighters have been approached about a possible fight with Barnett, but as of yet no one has accepted.

[Luke]

Re: Fighters you cant stand

Rematch with Bob Sapp maybe? No drug testing over there, so Joshey should be good to go.

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/?go=new ... gid=221559

Former UFC, Pride and Affliction fighter, Josh Barnett, has found a new home in Japan as the heavyweight stand-out has signed with Dream and will likely make his promotional debut at their March 22 show later this month.

It appears that for the time being, Barnett will make his living in MMA back in Japan. While no opponent has been named yet, rumors have circled that several fighters have been approached about a possible fight with Barnett, but as of yet no one has accepted.

Just read he'll be fighting Neil Grove