View Full Version : Evans-Rampage UFC 114
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::handshake::
I got 1.5u on QJ at -120.
I don't think Evans is going to be able to hurt Rampage with his boxing, while Rampage may very well knock Evans straight the fuck out. Also, Evans won't be able to run a train on Rampage like he did to Silva for 2 rounds. Rampage's wrestling is too good. He doesn't use it much, but he'll be able to defend the takedown.
My only concern on Rampage's side is ring rust.
after seeing what Lyoto Machida did to Evans, barring total lack of conditioning and Rampage being unable to make the weight cut(since he had to put a bunch on to play BA Baraccus) I don't see much of a problem for him. Evans has totally abandoned his sloppy boxing and gone back to his bread and butter. Problem is that was Rampage's bread and butter before he got into MMA. Not even Hendo gave Rampage much of a problem with wrestling, I don't see Evans having a chance at it. I'll be putting My money on Rampage.
NOG opens about where we figured guys. A little higher than I thought but not too much
Not gonna touch Nog at that price.
When's everyone think Forrest starts holding value?
What's everyone think about Leben VS Simpson?
Aaron proved in the Lawlor fight that he has a lot of holes in his striking . . . but he also proved that he has a pretty excellent chin. Leben might be able to put him out if they get into a stand up war.
Simpson's wrestling will obviously be much better and he may be able to control Leben and get a decision, but I think that at +285 Leben may be worth a small play.
I wouldn't have thought about picking Leben before his last fight, but he showed he's willing to do what it takes to win and not just go out and brawl.
He's a much more experienced fighter than Simpson, and seems like quite a bet at +285. I mean there's a good chance he gets taken down and either controlled or has his guard passed and choked out again, but the line seems off.
Not gonna touch Nog at that price.
When's everyone think Forrest starts holding value?
I thought this line would be -150 so theres already value there imo .I dont think Forrest wins though
I agree. Leben seemed like a rejuvenated fighter in his fight with Jay Silva. I went ahead and dropped .5u on him.
I like Nog at that a lot. I think he slaughters Forrest.
What's everyone think about Leben VS Simpson?
Aaron proved in the Lawlor fight that he has a lot of holes in his striking . . . but he also proved that he has a pretty excellent chin. Leben might be able to put him out if they get into a stand up war.
Simpson's wrestling will obviously be much better and he may be able to control Leben and get a decision, but I think that at +285 Leben may be worth a small play.
I think Simpson should win but -340 is just nuts imo. Theres no way this line should be that high
Mr. IWS
02-17-2010, 11:58 AM
Im on Nog like flys on shit.
Im on Nog like flys on shit.
I at first put a little something on Cain.
Then I dropped, I think, 1.25u on Nog once his line hit -140. Now that he's actually the underdog at a couple of books, I'm thinking of putting a little more on him so that I'll at least make a full unit if he wins.
Mr. IWS
02-17-2010, 12:11 PM
Im talking about lil nog.
Im talking about lil nog.
Oh, my bad, I wasn't thinking.
Lil Nog. . .
I hope Forrest wrecks his shit.
Mr. IWS
02-17-2010, 12:21 PM
I hope Forrest wrecks his shit.
Do you think that will happen?
Do you think that will happen?
No, not really. But if the same Forrest who fought Rampage shows up, I think he could win a decision.
I'm pretty sure there's only one incarnation of Forrest, just as there is no old or new Vitor. He's just Vitor.
Mr. IWS
02-17-2010, 12:34 PM
Forrest gets his shit pushed in at 114.
I'm pretty sure there's only one incarnation of Forrest, just as there is no old or new Vitor. He's just Vitor.
Yeah, but you know fighters have their good days and their bad days. Also, some fighters do change over time, either getting better or getting worse as they go, and often significantly transforming their skill sets, like wrestlers becoming strikers and strikers getting good on the ground.
Forrest gets his shit pushed in at 114.
Just like he was supposed to at 86 and 76, presumably. . .
Mr. IWS
02-17-2010, 12:40 PM
Ill admit, I didnt think Griffin would win either of those fights.
Ill admit, I didnt think Griffin would win either of those fights.
I see Griffin a lot like I see Serra. He's a dog to a lot of guys and rightfully so, but he has a special something where he can beat just about anyone on any given night. In that sense, he's a wildcard and hard to bet against.
I'm pretty sure there's only one incarnation of Forrest, just as there is no old or new Vitor. He's just Vitor.
Yeah, but you know fighters have their good days and their bad days. Also, some fighters do change over time, either getting better or getting worse as they go, and often significantly transforming their skill sets, like wrestlers becoming strikers and strikers getting good on the ground.
Yeah but he hasn't really gotten any better. His last fight with Tito, same old Forrest.
He beat Rampage because it was a good matchup for him, considering Rampage was just trying to land the home run the whole fight. He fought a smart strategy and beat Rampage's legs down and kept him at bay. Good day, bad day...it is what it is.
I get that you want to believe he can win and that's fine, but how is he gonna win? Outwork Nog? Doesn't seem likely to me. Just because Forrest won two fights he was supposed to lose doesn't mean he will win this one. He was supposed to lose to Anderson too and lose he did, in a more dominant fashion than anyone could have possibly imagined.
I get that you want to believe he can win and that's fine, but how is he gonna win? Outwork Nog? Doesn't seem likely to me. Just because Forrest won two fights he was supposed to lose doesn't mean he will win this one. He was supposed to lose to Anderson too and lose he did, in a more dominant fashion than anyone could have possibly imagined.
I never said he WOULD win . . . I said he COULD win. And it's not that far out there.
Who has Lil Nog even really beat since getting knocked out by Sokoudjou? Matyushenko and Cane?
If you want to bet on Nog then you can feel free to do so--in fact, since you're so confident I'll have some questions for you if you have not done so by fight night--but at -200 or worse, I won't touch it.
I'm very relaxed.
I'm just saying that if you are all like "how can Forrest win this fight? doesn't seem likely to me" then -215 sounds like pretty good odds.
They are
How much you got on this one?
Lil Nog pushing -260 at some places,this is ust nuts imo.NOG might be good but not this good .If this keeps climbing I'm going to end up on Forrest
Dan Miller-Bisping is going to be on this card now also I just read
poopoo333
04-21-2010, 05:06 PM
Bets I am considering: Rampage, Griffin, Bisping, Escudero, Guillard, and Cane.
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t233/luke1899/reverse-door-smash.gif
<a href="http://www.angryduck.com/">
http://www.angryduck.com/pictures/original/2010_01/reverse-door-smash.gif</p>
Nope.
I wonder if the producers were like, "Go Rampage! FUCK THAT SHIT UP!"
It seems like at least once every season a door gets broken, although I could be wrong, I missed like the last 4 seasons before the heavyweights.
It seems like at least once every season a door gets broken, although I could be wrong, I missed like the last 4 seasons before the heavyweights.
I wouldn't say you "missed them".
I wonder if the producers were like, "Go Rampage! FUCK THAT SHIT UP!"
wouldnt be surprised .these shows are so staged and edited
It seems like at least once every season a door gets broken, although I could be wrong, I missed like the last 4 seasons before the heavyweights.
I wouldn't say you "missed them".
I've "missed" every season
I've watched the episode with Kimbo-Nelson and the first episode of this year ,thats it
I'm watching right now. There's a shitty fight on.
poopoo333
05-01-2010, 03:19 PM
Griffin is at +230 right now. Definitely has value.
1.5u on Griffin @+230
Thewiseman
05-01-2010, 07:22 PM
Griffin is at +230 right now. Definitely has value.
1.5u on Griffin @+230
I have 1u on Griffin @ +210
poopoo333
05-02-2010, 01:09 PM
Glad I took Griffin yesterday, he dropped right down to +200.
Forrest Griffin Out Of UFC 114 With Shoulder Injury
::handshake::
phwew... I was almost gonna have to bet Griffin following the system I'm trying out. Glad I don't have to do that now.
poopoo333
05-03-2010, 11:08 PM
phwew... I was almost gonna have to bet Griffin following the system I'm trying out. Glad I don't have to do that now.
Explain?
And Luke, I just saw this rumor to on another forum, where is the source?
EdIt: nevermind, just saw it on tmz and mmajunkie
Forrest Griffin Out Of UFC 114 With Shoulder Injury
::handshake::
Gay
Gay
Not really. I didn't like this matchup for Forrest at all.
Gay
Not really. I didn't like this matchup for Forrest at all.
Good point.
I just hate hearing about a fight for 4 months and then it doesn't happen.
Good point.
I just hate hearing about a fight for 4 months and then it doesn't happen.
I hear you.
I'm actually a little shocked by the announcement.
phwew... I was almost gonna have to bet Griffin following the system I'm trying out. Glad I don't have to do that now.
Explain?
And Luke, I just saw this rumor to on another forum, where is the source?
EdIt: nevermind, just saw it on tmz and mmajunkie
I heard about a system where instead of betting all over the place you pick 4 fighters from each division as a sort of "Stable". There's an Anchor, Two Journeymen, and a Wildcard. The Anchor is supposed to be a guy who will win more than he loses, and potential title contender(though they recommend not picking Champions usually since the lines are getting crazy on them). The Journeymen should be experienced fighters who are outside title contendership, but usually given winnable fights on a consistent basis. The Wildcard is supposed to be up and coming fighters who because of their inexperience are given Underdog lines alot of the time. The system calls for consistency in betting the people in your stable because it's more of a "long run" kind of profit kind of thing. Forrest is one of My Journeymen at Light Heavyweight.
ManBoobKilla
05-04-2010, 12:30 AM
phwew... I was almost gonna have to bet Griffin following the system I'm trying out. Glad I don't have to do that now.
Explain?
And Luke, I just saw this rumor to on another forum, where is the source?
EdIt: nevermind, just saw it on tmz and mmajunkie
I heard about a system where instead of betting all over the place you pick 4 fighters from each division as a sort of "Stable". There's an Anchor, Two Journeymen, and a Wildcard. The Anchor is supposed to be a guy who will win more than he loses, and potential title contender(though they recommend not picking Champions usually since the lines are getting crazy on them). The Journeymen should be experienced fighters who are outside title contendership, but usually given winnable fights on a consistent basis. The Wildcard is supposed to be up and coming fighters who because of their inexperience are given Underdog lines alot of the time. The system calls for consistency in betting the people in your stable because it's more of a "long run" kind of profit kind of thing. Forrest is one of My Journeymen at Light Heavyweight.
I have to agree with you then on being glad that forrest is out now. I didnt see anyway for him to win that match
Yeah there's only one type of fighter who poses problems for Minotoro, someone who is fast enough to keep up with him standing and has one punch KO power. Forrest is too slow and doesn't have that kind of striking power, nor is his ground game good enough to compete with Minotoro. I was really hoping to avoid having to bet this fight(which is why I hadn't done so yet, I was waiting until the last minute and hoping something would prevent it from happening).
ManBoobKilla
05-04-2010, 12:52 AM
Honestly it might sound stupid but I wouldnt have bet on forrest if he was a +600 in that fight. He said so himself he couldnt beat lil nog
I heard about a system where instead of betting all over the place you pick 4 fighters from each division as a sort of "Stable". There's an Anchor, Two Journeymen, and a Wildcard. The Anchor is supposed to be a guy who will win more than he loses, and potential title contender(though they recommend not picking Champions usually since the lines are getting crazy on them). The Journeymen should be experienced fighters who are outside title contendership, but usually given winnable fights on a consistent basis. The Wildcard is supposed to be up and coming fighters who because of their inexperience are given Underdog lines alot of the time. The system calls for consistency in betting the people in your stable because it's more of a "long run" kind of profit kind of thing. Forrest is one of My Journeymen at Light Heavyweight.
That's really interesting, Ludo.
For the Anchor, I'm thinking JDS.
Two journeymen: Chris Lytle, (doesn't really count as a journeyman, but sort of does) Tyson Griffin
Wildcard: Rick Story, Brian Foster, or Jake Ellenberger
Yeah there's only one type of fighter who poses problems for Minotoro, someone who is fast enough to keep up with him standing and has one punch KO power.
Sokoudjou!
Forrest is too slow and doesn't have that kind of striking power, nor is his ground game good enough to compete with Minotoro. I was really hoping to avoid having to bet this fight(which is why I hadn't done so yet, I was waiting until the last minute and hoping something would prevent it from happening).
LOL.
I had pretty much decided that I was just going to stay far away from this one, but if I was to bet it would be Forrest.
You never know about Forrest. He's hard to bet against.
Mr. IWS
05-04-2010, 08:27 AM
Forrest Griffin Out Of UFC 114 With Shoulder Injury
::handshake::
http://conjectura.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/fuuuuuck.jpg
Jason Brilz (18-2-1 MMA, 3-1 UFC) has agreed to take the fight on a little less than four-weeks' notice.
Sources close to the promotion indicated that verbal agreements are in place and bout agreements are expected to be finalized shortly.
poopoo333
05-04-2010, 01:00 PM
brb putting my bankroll on Brilz
get ready for a -500 line on Minotoro.
poopoo333
05-04-2010, 01:11 PM
get ready for a -500 line on Minotoro.
More like -1000
More like -1000
Word.
If it's -500 I'm taking it.
poopoo333
05-04-2010, 02:06 PM
More like -1000
Word.
If it's -500 I'm taking it.
REmember Sokoudju?
More like -1000
Word.
If it's -500 I'm taking it.
REmember Sokoudju?
That's about as relevant as saying 'remember Matt Serra?' every time GSP fights or 'remember Ryo Chonan?' every time Silva fights.
REmember Sokoudju?
You'll be taking Brilz then, I presume?
poopoo333
05-04-2010, 03:24 PM
REmember Sokoudju?
You'll be taking Brilz then, I presume?
No, I am staying away unless we get a gift line on Nog.
REmember Sokoudju?
You'll be taking Brilz then, I presume?
I do think Nogueira will be overvalued though, even though he should win.
Aside from destroying Luiz Arthur Cane, he hasn't really looked that amazing in forever.
Is Brilz really that much of a step down from Forrest?
(zips up flame suit)
(zips up flame suit)
::lmao::
REmember Sokoudju?
You'll be taking Brilz then, I presume?
I do think Nogueira will be overvalued though, even though he should win.
Aside from destroying Luiz Arthur Cane, he hasn't really looked that amazing in forever.
Is Brilz really that much of a step down from Forrest?
(zips up flame suit)
I thought Luke was the one who said stupid stuff just to fuck with everyone
I thought Luke was the one who said stupid stuff just to fuck with everyone...
I'm sure zY was being sincere, despite the fact that it sounded like a classic troll comment.
Like it or not, Forrest is an ex-champ with wins over Shogun, Rampage, and Tito.
Then he loses in dramatic fashion to Anderson Fucking Silva and he's suddenly on the level of Jason Brilz.
I thought Luke was the one who said stupid stuff just to fuck with everyone
LOL ::clap::
Yeah I'm not sure where all this "Forrest sucks now" has come from, but the gauntlet he's run in his last few fights is matched by literally nobody else in the division.
Shogun
Rampage
Rashad
Anderson
Tito
I defy you to name one other Light Heavyweight who's fought guys of this calliber in a row like that and held his own for the most part(the Anderson fight being the only one he got his ass handed to him in).
Yeah, Forrest gets the Jardine treatment, i.e. never an easy fight and often fighting against champs or ex-champs.
Forrest is the shit. Maybe not the GOAT, but a very solid fighter who deserves respect.
I thought Luke was the one who said stupid stuff just to fuck with everyone...
I'm sure zY was being sincere, despite the fact that it sounded like a classic troll comment.
Like it or not, Forrest is an ex-champ with wins over Shogun, Rampage, and Tito.
Then he loses in dramatic fashion to Anderson Fucking Silva and he's suddenly on the level of Jason Brilz.
I was honestly thinking of betting Forrest against NOG till it was cancelled
I thought Luke was the one who said stupid stuff just to fuck with everyone...
I'm sure zY was being sincere, despite the fact that it sounded like a classic troll comment.
Like it or not, Forrest is an ex-champ with wins over Shogun, Rampage, and Tito.
Then he loses in dramatic fashion to Anderson Fucking Silva and he's suddenly on the level of Jason Brilz.
18-2-1 with one loss via robbery decision?
Brilz ain't exactly a can.
Yeah I'm not sure where all this "Forrest sucks now" has come from, but the gauntlet he's run in his last few fights is matched by literally nobody else in the division.
Shogun
Rampage
Rashad
Anderson
Tito
I defy you to name one other Light Heavyweight who's fought guys of this calliber in a row like that and held his own for the most part(the Anderson fight being the only one he got his ass handed to him in).
Shogun (2005)
Rampage (2007-present)
but point taken.
All I'm saying is it was painfully obvious that Nog was a nightmare matchup for Forrest.
18-2-1 with one loss via robbery decision?
Brilz ain't exactly a can.
He's a fine fighter, but he's not on the level of someone who has choked out Rua or taken the belt from Rampage.
Records are important, but this is the UFC.
I was honestly thinking of betting Forrest against NOG till it was cancelled
Me too. Probably would've dropped a little something at +200 or better.
Mr. IWS
05-05-2010, 08:43 AM
All I'm saying is it was painfully obvious that Nog was a nightmare matchup for Forrest.
I agree. It was most likely going to be all standup, and Nog would have pushed his shit in IMO. Kind of pissed they cancelled it.
I still may get on Nog against Brilz though, but I gotta look at a couple of his fights first.
poopoo333
05-06-2010, 10:56 AM
Amir:-140, Kim:+110
Escudero:-390, Dan Lauzon:+300
I think Stun Gun just might stun Amir's ass back into the L category on this one.
I don't know, Amir is very good at keeping the fight at the range he wants it. He uses the leg kicks and teak well to control how close his opponent can get to him, and it's usually him closing the gap for anything. I think Amir outpoints Kim.
You could very well be right. Personally, I think the line is probably pretty well set on this one.
Yeah the line is right about where it should be. Kim COULD nail Amir and take him out, and it wouldn't be much of an upset really. I just think Amir has the tools to control this fight and wear Kim out with the body strikes.
Yeah the line is right about where it should be. Kim COULD nail Amir and take him out. . .
That's why they call him the Stun Gun, after all. . .
True enough, all I know is I'll be on Amir since he's looked good and won Me money in the past. I don't think Kim is a huge step up from Blackburn, but it's still a step up none the less.
poopoo333
05-06-2010, 09:19 PM
What do you guys think about the Bisping-Miller fight? I am going to be all over Bisping if he isn't like -500
ManBoobKilla
05-06-2010, 09:51 PM
What do you guys think about the Bisping-Miller fight? I am going to be all over Bisping if he isn't like -500
I will be on Bispings nuts on this fight!!! I hope the lines are good also. We saw Miller's horrible striking in the maia fight and he didnt really try for a take down that I remember. Even if Miller gets it to the ground I think Bisping can get back up and tko him or at least a UD
Miller just flat out does not have the tools to win this fight. Bisping is very good at avoiding subs, very good about getting off the ground when he gets taken down, and he is hard to damage even when you have him on the ground. His footwork is active as hell, this is just a bad matchup for Miller.
Thewiseman
05-06-2010, 10:27 PM
Im on Stun Gun for 1.3u to win 1.4u, also .33u on Lauzon to win 1u.
MMA_scientist
05-07-2010, 09:24 AM
agree. favorable style matchup for Bisping/
poopoo333
05-09-2010, 01:44 AM
This card kind of sucks for betting. Bisping is really the only bet I want to take.
edman5555
05-09-2010, 10:00 AM
I'm on stun gun and bisping for sure. Maybe Mike Russow, probably something.
poopoo333
05-09-2010, 10:09 AM
For the guys on Kim or Amir, how do you see it playing out?
edman5555
05-09-2010, 10:17 AM
I dont know how it will play out but I see has a lot more experience than Amir and he's an underdog. He's also 14 and 0...I don't see why he is the dog.
poopoo333
05-09-2010, 10:19 AM
Amir's name from the TUF is going to effect the lines. See Kimbo/Mitrione...Kimbo was the favorite and look how that turned out.
I think Amir/Stun Gun could really go either way.
If Amir can keep it on the feet and make it a striking match--and if he's smart, that's what he's going to want to do I think--then Amir will probably win it. Stun Gun's striking is functional, but I haven't seen anything yet that's overly impressive. With that said, he does have a whole slew of KOs from earlier in his career, so if he hits Amir just right that could be all she wrote.
If the Stun Gun turns it into a grappling match I suspect it won't be good for Amir. On the ground, Amir ends up on this back too much, and I don't think he'll be able to get the sub. Stun Gun's judo/top control wrestling is too good.
poopoo333
05-09-2010, 11:46 AM
I think Amir/Stun Gun could really go either way.
If Amir can keep it on the feet and make it a striking match--and if he's smart, that's what he's going to want to do I think--then Amir will probably win it. Stun Gun's striking is functional, but I haven't seen anything yet that's overly impressive. With that said, he does have a whole slew of KOs from earlier in his career, so if he hits Amir just right that could be all she wrote.
If the Stun Gun turns it into a grappling match I suspect it won't be good for Amir. On the ground, Amir ends up on this back too much, and I don't think he'll be able to get the sub. Stun Gun's judo/top control wrestling is too good.
Yeah, I was just watching Kim's fights and he is very aggressive and active in the grappling department. Amir throws a lot of kicks, so I think he might end up on his back quite a bit. I will probably make a small play on Kim. It's a shame, because I am an Amir fan, but I think Kim has a SLIGHT edge.
I'm putting money on Kim for sure.
Amir gets outwrestled all the time. He has good submissions but Kim is a very solid submission specialist himself so I don't see Kim getting subbed. I see Kim taking this by UD and am even happier that he's at underdog odds. TUF hype is gonna win me extra cash!!! ::moneybag::
ManBoobKilla
05-09-2010, 05:09 PM
what do you guys think about the sanchez vs hathaway fight?? I think that UFC is trying to give diego someone to beat but hathaway isnt a give me fight.
poopoo333
05-09-2010, 06:45 PM
Is it safe to say Bisping will hang around better than -400? And what do you guys think about Dan Lauzon and Efrain Escudero? How is Lauzon against wrestlers?
The better question is how gunshy will Escudero be after almost getting his arm ripped off by Etim.
ManBoobKilla
05-09-2010, 07:21 PM
The better question is how gunshy will Escudero be after almost getting his arm ripped off by Etim.
You mean dunham...
Him too, sorry, I always mix up Dunham and Etim.
Got 1.25u to win 1u on Rampage, and 1.3u to win 1u on Sodollah so far.
edman5555
05-09-2010, 08:27 PM
Why Sodollah?
Sodollah is part of that system I talked about last week with anchors, journeymen, and wild cards for every division. Sodollah is My middleweight Wildcard and he hasn't failed Me yet. Not to mention I think he can handle anything Kim can throw at him. He has great success with leg kicks, and he mixes things up so much it's hard to get a time on when he's throwing it or where he's throwing it from. He is good at controlling the pace, and controlling the distance. His ground game is good enough I think to stay out of too much trouble if it ends up there.
Is it safe to say Bisping will hang around better than -400? And what do you guys think about Dan Lauzon and Efrain Escudero? How is Lauzon against wrestlers?
I don't think Bisping will be that high. I'm guessing more in the -233 range, but it's hard to say. Both guys are coming off of losses to high level fighters.
poopoo333
05-09-2010, 08:42 PM
Amir is a ww
poopoo333
05-09-2010, 10:19 PM
Diego is -290 right now..... this won't last long. Do you guys think he is a good bet? I don't know enough about Hathaway.
I don't know a whole lot about Hathaway, but I did see his win against Rick Story. It was impressive enough. Story is no slouch.
My guess is Diego will be too experienced for him, but I'm not sure I'd bet him at -290. That's about a 74% chance to win, and who knows, Diego probably wins this one 3 out of 4 but Hathaway is undefeated and could surprise us.
poopoo333
05-09-2010, 10:49 PM
I don't know a whole lot about Hathaway, but I did see his win against Rick Story. It was impressive enough. Story is no slouch.
My guess is Diego will be too experienced for him, but I'm not sure I'd bet him at -290. That's about a 74% chance to win, and who knows, Diego probably wins this one 3 out of 4 but Hathaway is undefeated and could surprise us.
My gut is telling me it is a 5u play, but for Diego, a former LW #1 contender, and a former WW contender before the weight class drop....to be only -290 against a guy with only 2 notable wins against people who aren't even top 20...something has to be up. Maybe the oddsmakers know something we don't...OR it is just a horrible opening line. Diego opened at -588 at one book awhile back.
My gut is telling me it is a 5u play, but for Diego, a former LW #1 contender, and a former WW contender before the weight class drop....to be only -290 against a guy with only 2 notable wins against people who aren't even top 20...something has to be up. Maybe the oddsmakers know something we don't...OR it is just a horrible opening line. Diego opened at -588 at one book awhile back.
You could be right.
The thing about plays like this is that there's a lot of guess work. You're right that Hathaway only has two notable wins, but it could be that he only holds wins over fighters at that level because that's all that's been given him. It's kind of like how going into the Stevenson fight, Sotiropolous's best win was over George Roop or Jason Dent, take your pick. But then he comes in and dominates Stevenson who, as you say about Diego, is a former LW #1 contender.
So while Diego will more than likely win, and perhaps even handily, you gotta be willing to take the gamble.
poopoo333
05-09-2010, 11:01 PM
I know exactly what you mean. Just like JDS...huge underdog in his UFC debut, he beat a bunch of "nobodies" before the UFC...ended up winning by R1 KO. Then beats Struve. Then Cro Cop. Then Yvel. Then Gonzaga. I am sure people were counting JDS out before the Cro Cop fight because of "he fought nobodies in Brazil, got a fluke KO over an out of shape Werdum, and he beat a 21 year old". Turns out he is great. Hathaway can be the next "great" thing. I guess we'll see.
Yep, that's pretty much it, PP.
You can definitely make some money if you can get good at figuring those guys out early in their careers.
I see that Rampage is now a very slight underdog on Pinnacle. That's surprising.
I already have 1.25u on him, but if he hits even or better on any of my books then I think I'll take him for another .5u. I think Rampage is going to win this one with his power and experience.
ManBoobKilla
05-10-2010, 11:53 AM
What about Brammer??? He is for sure going to be an underdog but I think he might take this. Any bets on where Luiz cane's line is going to be?
MMA_scientist
05-10-2010, 12:01 PM
I originally thought Rampage would win. But now I am leaning Rashad.
Rampage has better hands, IMO, but Rashad gets in trouble when he is pressed. Rampage does not have a forward pressing style. He likes to counter lately. Whenever there is built up hate, both guys tend to fight scared. It usually makes for a boring fight, because no one wants to lose (see Hughes/Serra and Kos/Daley).
I think Rashad can take him down and just out hustle him.
I thought the fight could probably go either way before Rashad's fight with Thiago Silva, but now I'm not so sure.
With Rampage's wrestling skills, I really don't see Rashad running the wrestling train on Rampage like he did on Silva, and I don't think that Rashad has the power to really hurt Rampage. If Rampage lands though, he can knock Rashad straight the fuck out, just like Machida did and like Silva almost did in the third.
I'll probably bet Rashad too .I think Rampage is on the downside of his career
No bet from me. If motivated, in shape Rampage comes in, Rashad shouldn't have much for him. If fat, out of shape Rampage shows up Rashad could beat him.
MMA_scientist
05-10-2010, 12:26 PM
I thought the fight could probably go either way before Rashad's fight with Thiago Silva, but now I'm not so sure.
With Rampage's wrestling skills, I really don't see Rashad running the wrestling train on Rampage like he did on Silva, and I don't think that Rashad has the power to really hurt Rampage. If Rampage lands though, he can knock Rashad straight the fuck out, just like Machida did and like Silva almost did in the third.
Rashad has power too. He has a couple of highlight reel KO's himself. I will agree that Rampage wins the battle of the chins though.
Still Rampage doesn't really change his gameplan up too much. Rashad seems like an intelligent fighter, he is going to do whatever he has to do to win the fight. Whereas Rampage is going to be looking for a knock out. Rashad also has kicks and wrestling to fall back on. Rampage used to have his slams, but it has been years since we have seen that. And even then, Rashad would outwrestle him.
Rashad has power too. He has a couple of highlight reel KO's himself. I will agree that Rampage wins the battle of the chins though.
I think Rashad can KO regular guys or guys with questionable chins, but Rampage has always had a very good chin, so I just don't see Rashad's power coming into play here. If Rashad wins via strikes, then it will be because he somehow outpointed page, which is possible if he uses his speeds and avoids Rampage's power shots.
poopoo333
05-10-2010, 01:05 PM
Diego is -230 right now...
Diego is -230 right now...
Now that just might be worth a bet. . .
poopoo333
05-10-2010, 01:10 PM
Diego is -230 right now...
Now that just might be worth a bet. . .
I don't understand why all this money is coming in on Hathaway though.. hmm
Honestly, even if fat out of shape Rampage comes in, I don't know if Rashad has the tools to beat him. Rampage has NEVER been outwrestled that I have ever seen, not even by Dan Henderson. He has the better striking, the much better chin, and I honestly believe he has the better counter wrestling here. How he uses his wrestling is the difference maker, if he stuffs takedowns all night He's going to put Rashad in a bad place, if he allows himself to get taken down and then tries to rely on his sweeps and scrambles he could end up in trouble. Though it'd be very hard for Rampage not to get motivated for this fight seeing as he hates Rashad so much.
As far as the build up fights being boring, I think the Koscheck/Daley was a bit out of context. I thought the reason Koscheck took it to the ground and played it safe was because he was fully aware of what was on the line. The title shot loomed over the octagon when they fought and I think he kept that in mind every single step of the way. I don't blame him for fighting to his strengths with a shot at GSP riding on him winning or losing that night. Serra/Hughes sucked though.
Side note, I'm not touching the Diego fight because there is something strange going on with the line on Hathaway, and I don't trust it one bit.
southbaysurf
05-10-2010, 01:17 PM
I wished I had grabbed more of Hathaway @ +330, makes for a nice arbitrage. ::thumbsup::
I don't understand why all this money is coming in on Hathaway though.. hmm
Same reasons we talked about, I suppose. Combine that with the fact that in Diego's last fight he took a brutal beating by the same man who just lost against Frankie Edgar and the puzzle comes together. . .
poopoo333
05-10-2010, 01:22 PM
Diego is down to -190. I am VERY close to pulling the trigger
Diego is down to -190. I am VERY close to pulling the trigger
Interesting situation we have on our hands here.
LOL at Sports Interaction opening Diego at -588.
poopoo333
05-10-2010, 01:25 PM
Diego is down to -190. I am VERY close to pulling the trigger
Interesting situation we have on our hands here.
LOL at Sports Interaction opening Diego at -588.
The conspiracy theorist in my head is going on about how something might be wrong with Diego. Decisions, decisions.
Honestly, even if fat out of shape Rampage comes in, I don't know if Rashad has the tools to beat him. Rampage has NEVER been outwrestled that I have ever seen, not even by Dan Henderson. He has the better striking, the much better chin, and I honestly believe he has the better counter wrestling here. How he uses his wrestling is the difference maker, if he stuffs takedowns all night He's going to put Rashad in a bad place, if he allows himself to get taken down and then tries to rely on his sweeps and scrambles he could end up in trouble. Though it'd be very hard for Rampage not to get motivated for this fight seeing as he hates Rashad so much.
As far as the build up fights being boring, I think the Koscheck/Daley was a bit out of context. I thought the reason Koscheck took it to the ground and played it safe was because he was fully aware of what was on the line. The title shot loomed over the octagon when they fought and I think he kept that in mind every single step of the way. I don't blame him for fighting to his strengths with a shot at GSP riding on him winning or losing that night. Serra/Hughes sucked though.
Side note, I'm not touching the Diego fight because there is something strange going on with the line on Hathaway, and I don't trust it one bit.
Well I agree with you on the wrestling front. Rampage is perennially underrated there. However, I think Rashad would've beat the Rampage that fought Jardine. I think this fight depends entirely on Rampage. If he just comes out headhunting and doesn't connect, then what? If he mixes it up like he's capable of he should win pretty handily.
Diego is down to -190. I am VERY close to pulling the trigger
I'd see if it goes even lower if it's dropped that fast.
ManBoobKilla
05-10-2010, 01:29 PM
You guys see any value in Brammer?? Im sure he will be an underdog
MMA_scientist
05-10-2010, 01:32 PM
Went out and researched Hathaway. He is a jack of all trades type fighter. He doesn't have anything for Diego. Got taken down a lot by Story. Woudn't stand with Taylor.
Pull the trigger.
MMA_scientist
05-10-2010, 01:35 PM
He is still -357 at some books. That's a good bet. Its probably competive standing, but Diego has every other advantage. Even standing, Diego probably has the advantage.
I will be on Diego for sure up to -250
If it is still there when BM opens it, I will be on it.
Mr. IWS
05-10-2010, 01:37 PM
I think this fight depends entirely on Rampage. If he just comes out headhunting and doesn't connect, then what? If he mixes it up like he's capable of he should win pretty handily.
Pretty much my thoughts. He keeps saying how great a camp his having. Im either on Ramage, or nothing at all. I wanna see how he looks at the weigh ins.
You guys see any value in Brammer?? Im sure he will be an underdog
I've seen you ask about that guy before, but I really have no idea who he is.
MMA_scientist
05-10-2010, 01:44 PM
You guys see any value in Brammer?? Im sure he will be an underdog
I wouldn't take him as a slight dog, but maybe at +170 or so.
He has only fought one decent opponent, Bocek, and he lost. Riley is pretty tough
ManBoobKilla
05-10-2010, 01:46 PM
You guys see any value in Brammer?? Im sure he will be an underdog
I've seen you ask about that guy before, but I really have no idea who he is.
Ya I asked earlier but everyone just ignored me lol. His last fight was a submission loss to Bocek But, he is fighting aaron riley is no Bocek. I heard Brammer is suppose to have good submission skills though. I was thinking he would be the dog based on him being so new
I agree with Scientist that Aaron Riley is tough and a game opponent. Don't know shit about Brammer, but Riley is a solid mid-level guy.
MMA_scientist
05-10-2010, 02:00 PM
You guys see any value in Brammer?? Im sure he will be an underdog
I've seen you ask about that guy before, but I really have no idea who he is.
Ya I asked earlier but everyone just ignored me lol. His last fight was a submission loss to Bocek But, he is fighting aaron riley is no Bocek. I heard Brammer is suppose to have good submission skills though. I was thinking he would be the dog based on him being so new
Riley has good submission defense. He has only been submitted twice in 41 fights. One of those was his second fight against Mario Roberto, a bjj bb. That Sam Morgan one is kind of inexcusable though.
Brammer may beat him, because I think Riley is worn out. But I doubt he will submit him.
ManBoobKilla
05-10-2010, 02:09 PM
Riley has good submission defense. He has only been submitted twice in 41 fights. One of those was his second fight against Mario Roberto, a bjj bb. That Sam Morgan one is kind of inexcusable though.
Brammer may beat him, because I think Riley is worn out. But I doubt he will submit him.[/quote]
Ya its kinda hard to call cause Brammer is so green and Riley like you said is "worn out" or at the end of his career. At least in the UFC I mean
poopoo333
05-10-2010, 03:00 PM
5u on Diego @-190
Good luck. I might follow for 2u if I really feel like risking that much from my 5dimes account.
MMA_scientist
05-10-2010, 03:07 PM
I will be on diego as well if he ever opens @ BM
southbaysurf
05-10-2010, 03:37 PM
Went out and researched Hathaway. He is a jack of all trades type fighter. He doesn't have anything for Diego. Got taken down a lot by Story. Woudn't stand with Taylor.
Pull the trigger.
I think you're selling Hathaway a bit short. I'm probably just arbing off the +250 avg that I have on Hath for 3U but I give him a real chance to win.
Diego was nothing special and got chased out of the division once already. He was even 'in tough' against Clay Guida.
poopoo333
05-10-2010, 03:40 PM
If Bisping's odds aren't ridiculous, I will be on him for a medium-big play. I am also looking at:
Luiz Cane: His stock may go down due to getting quickly KO'd at UFC 106, and people will be looking at this as a striker vs striker match. Cane is a BJJ black belt and can win on the ground.
Melvin Guillard: Close to even or a dog, I will take him. The line may be skewed due to Guillard doing things such as putting his head into Diaz's guillotine.
Don Hyung Kim: He is an aggressive grappler, and seems to be good and active from top control. Amir seems to be a good striker, but it was hard to tell against the New York Punching Bag how he would do against somebody that would press the action like Kim would. I think money will come in on Amir and give better odds on Kim.
I am also considering Rampage and Escudero. Anybody have thoughts on the Escudero/Dan Lauzon fight? I refuse to bet on Todd Duffee even though he will most likely win. It's hard to bet on a guy with an 8 second fight in the UFC.
MMA_scientist
05-10-2010, 03:58 PM
Went out and researched Hathaway. He is a jack of all trades type fighter. He doesn't have anything for Diego. Got taken down a lot by Story. Woudn't stand with Taylor.
Pull the trigger.
I think you're selling Hathaway a bit short. I'm probably just arbing off the +250 avg that I have on Hath for 3U but I give him a real chance to win.
Diego was nothing special and got chased out of the division once already. He was even 'in tough' against Clay Guida.
I am gonna have to disagree that he wan't special @ ww. He was right there in the title picture. He got beat by Fitch, the #2 guy in the world, and Koscheck, the #4 or 5 guy in the world. Fitch beats everyone except GSP. Wins over Karo and Diaz are impressive, even today.
He came really close to finishing Guida in the first and was not in trouble in that fight at any point. Plus, Guida is good, there is no shame in a close fight with him. A win over Guida would be far and away Hathaway's best win. I personally think Diego is better suited to WW though.
Hathaway just doesn't have a base style, which is what i meant by the jack of all trades comment. He doesn't strike fear anywhere, he is just pretty good everywhere.
Diego can probably stand with him, but if not, he can take him down. I dare Hathaway to take Diego down. The only realistic out is to catch Diego standing. But only BJ has event hurt him standing. Even BJ didn't really finish him, he just got cut.
MMA_scientist
05-10-2010, 04:00 PM
I am also considering Rampage and Escudero. Anybody have thoughts on the Escudero/Dan Lauzon fight? I refuse to bet on Todd Duffee even though he will most likely win. It's hard to bet on a guy with an 8 second fight in the UFC.
I like Escudero a lot in that, but he is -400 or so. I would take him @ -300 though.
I'm thinking some money might eventually come in on D-Lo.
I think Escudero wins, but after being stopped by Dunham in his last fight, he really shouldn't be this much of a favorite. With that said, Lauzon loses to everyone anyone's ever heard of, except for Bobby Green.
MMA_scientist
05-10-2010, 04:34 PM
I'm thinking some money might eventually come in on D-Lo.
I think Escudero wins, but after being stopped by Dunham in his last fight, he really shouldn't be this much of a favorite. With that said, Lauzon loses to everyone anyone's ever heard of, except for Bobby Green.
DLau definately doesn't have Dunham's skills on the mat.
He was also getting beat up pretty badly by Green in the first, IIRC
He was also getting beat up pretty badly by Green in the first, IIRC
He was. He also won an Oscar. Best Actor for Nutshots.
Dana White Says The Winner of Rampage Jackson vs. Rashad Evans Will Get The First Shot at Mauricio Shogun Rua
::handshake::
^^^ That's sort of fucked since Rashad has only won one fight since getting KOd, but sure, I'll roll with it.
I wonder who Lyoto is going to fight next. They better not cock block him on the way back to the title and make him fight like 4 or 5 times.
Svino
05-10-2010, 06:18 PM
^^^ That's sort of fucked since Rashad has only won one fight since getting KOd, but sure, I'll roll with it.
I wonder who Lyoto is going to fight next. They better not cock block him on the way back to the title and make him fight like 4 or 5 times.
Doesn't seem too weird to me. A lot of times guys who lose the title get a shot at retaking it after just one other win. Evans would have two.
I suppose they could give Machida the loser of the Rashad/Page fight. He did say he would be willing to fight Little Nog. Maybe Jon Jones if Jones demolishes Matyushenko.
^^^ That's sort of fucked since Rashad has only won one fight since getting KOd, but sure, I'll roll with it.
I wonder who Lyoto is going to fight next. They better not cock block him on the way back to the title and make him fight like 4 or 5 times.
My guess is Forrest Griffin or the loser of Evans/Rampage
Doesn't seem too weird to me. A lot of times guys who lose the title get a shot at retaking it after just one other win. Evans would have two.
I didn't say weird, but I do think that unless the fight where they lost the belt was real close (Machida/Shogun, BJ/Edgar) then the ex-champ should have to do some ladder climbing to get back to the belt. I'm not sure that two wins should be enough, but fuck it. I guess you gotta give the ex-champ some respect.
I suppose they could give Machida the loser of the Rashad/Page fight. He did say he would be willing to fight Little Nog. Maybe Jon Jones if Jones demolishes Matyushenko.
I hope Machida gets back out there in double-time. All of those sound like good matches, so let's make it happen. I also hope we get some good lines on Machida now that he just lost. I would definitely take Machida over Rashad or Rampage. But I honestly think I would take Jon Jones if I could get good enough odds.
I might just pass on Evans-Rampage and fade both these guys in their next fights.
No way does Evans or Rampage beat ShoGun and no way either one of them beat Machida
Svino
05-10-2010, 06:57 PM
Yeah, I'm actually not all that interested in seeing Machida fight Griffin, Evans, or Rampage (who he beats) or Shogun (who I think he loses to again). Jones might potentially make a more interesting matchup; I know Machida has good takedown defense but it would be interesting to see it really put to the test.
You know what? Fuck it - give Machida the loser of Carwin / Lesnar. Don't tell me you wouldn't watch the hell out of that fight. And it gets him out of the LHW way so Anderson can step up and fight Shogun.
No way does Evans or Rampage beat ShoGun and no way either one of them beat Machida
Did someone say. . . ShoGun?
http://jasongoldberger.com/dragon-25sho1.jpg
No way does Evans or Rampage beat ShoGun and no way either one of them beat Machida
Did someone say. . . ShoGun?
http://jasongoldberger.com/dragon-25sho1.jpg
You're weird
but what the hell:
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t233/luke1899/untitled.jpg
Shogun of Harlem, homey.
But hey, good playing back at me. I love the Shogun mini-series!
2.25u on Diego at -210. C'mon Diego! Help me save my 5dimes account!
poopoo333
05-10-2010, 08:51 PM
Good luck SPX. We will win money on Diego. You should have grabbed him at -190!! I think I may have gotten him at the best possible time.
Good luck SPX. We will win money on Diego. You should have grabbed him at -190!! I think I may have gotten him at the best possible time.
Yeah, I was at work and can't bet from there. The line had jumped a little by the time I got home, but I was thinking I'll take him up to -233/70% so I still jumped on it.
Looks like we ride together on this one.
ManBoobKilla
05-10-2010, 09:10 PM
diego -285 now lol
poopoo333
05-10-2010, 09:14 PM
diego -285 now lol
I am stupid. Is there an arb opportunity already?
I am stupid. Is there an arb opportunity already?
Why are you stupid? You got him at -190. . .
poopoo333
05-10-2010, 09:23 PM
I am stupid. Is there an arb opportunity already?
Why are you stupid? You got him at -190. . .
I meant I was stupid as in I don't know when an arb opportunity is available.
I meant I was stupid as in I don't know when an arb opportunity is available.
Here's some good info on arbing:
http://forums.mmajunkie.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19655
poopoo333
05-10-2010, 09:55 PM
I will be on diego as well if he ever opens @ BM
Nows your time! -215
MMA_scientist
05-10-2010, 10:20 PM
5u on Diego @ -215
5u on Efrain @ -360
poopoo333
05-10-2010, 11:19 PM
Anything else you like on this card Scientist?
MMA_scientist
05-11-2010, 09:24 AM
Anything else you like on this card Scientist?
Yeah Bisping if the line is right
ManBoobKilla
05-11-2010, 12:08 PM
Tavares out of 114 due to shoulder injury
poopoo333
05-11-2010, 12:18 PM
Tavares out of 114 due to shoulder injury
He was going to lose anyways.
ManBoobKilla
05-11-2010, 12:51 PM
Tavares out of 114 due to shoulder injury
He was going to lose anyways.
probably so.......Guillard is getting good at takedown defense and very good at getting back to his feet when he does get taken down
poopoo333
05-11-2010, 12:56 PM
Wow I never knew how impressive Dan Lauzon's record is. All of his wins are basically against guys with losing records. Even records like 2-11. And he was getting beat pretty handily by Bobby Greene who isn't exactly an awesome guy either. Lauzon's acting skills helped him in that fight. I will be on Escudero for sure, just going to wait and see if his line gets better.
Thewiseman
05-11-2010, 06:13 PM
Lauzon .33u to win 1u. Efrain will probably win, but this line seems off to me
Thewiseman
05-11-2010, 06:15 PM
Stun Gun 1.3u to win 1.43u. I think he will dominate the clinch and the ground. Amir only has the edge at range. Amir may have the cardio edge as well, Kim has been out for awhile.
poopoo333
05-12-2010, 07:58 AM
0.25u on Kim @+110
Thewiseman
05-12-2010, 08:24 AM
Rampage 1.25u to win 1u. If Rampage come fully prepared I think he has a big advantage. But unless he is totally unprepared, I see him having an advantage regardless. Better hands, better chin, and good enough wrestling to match Evans.
Thewiseman
05-12-2010, 08:25 AM
Also on Hathaway, .25u to win .5u.
poopoo333
05-12-2010, 03:11 PM
Escudero down to -365. I think I am going to take him.
poopoo333
05-13-2010, 02:03 PM
grr, when are the rest of the odds coming out for the main card?
grr, when are the rest of the odds coming out for the main card?
Be patient, my son. One day all of this will be yours.
Thewiseman
05-13-2010, 02:32 PM
Kim/Sodallah goes the distance 1.8u to win 1u
Hathaway/Sanchez goes the distance 1u to win 1.1u
Fuck it, just followed you guys who have bets on Escudero.
3.5u to win 1u
poopoo333
05-13-2010, 03:11 PM
Fuck it, just followed you guys who have bets on Escudero.
3.5u to win 1u
I am taking that fight for sure...just waiting to see how the line moves.
BillyPilgrim
05-13-2010, 03:17 PM
Fuck it, just followed you guys who have bets on Escudero.
3.5u to win 1u
Good man. I think it is a favorable matchup for Efrain. Dlau has ok hands, he was sure as hell beating Cole's ass standing. But Efrain has shown decent hands himself. In fact, he KO'd Miller cold. But Efrain has the takedown and grappling advantage too IMO. I don't think DLau has anywhere near the guard he would need to submit Efrain.
There just aren't any outs for Lauzon here.
Thewiseman
05-13-2010, 04:57 PM
Efrain will probably win, but I hate the odds, no way I would bet that. Im on Lauzon for a small bet.
I am taking that fight for sure...just waiting to see how the line moves.
It's hard to say how much more money, if any, is really going to come in on D-Lo at the current line. If the line moves much in either direction I think it'll be in the last few days leading up to the fight.
Good man. I think it is a favorable matchup for Efrain. Dlau has ok hands, he was sure as hell beating Cole's ass standing. But Efrain has shown decent hands himself. In fact, he KO'd Miller cold. But Efrain has the takedown and grappling advantage too IMO. I don't think DLau has anywhere near the guard he would need to submit Efrain.
There just aren't any outs for Lauzon here.
I see it more or less the same way, so I hope you're right. My primary concern is that there's still not a lot of data on either guy fighting UFC level comp. Both guys fought Miller and both fights were very short. Against Efrain, Miller got caught with a punch. If he had not, how would the fight have gone? Hard to say. And against Lauzon, Miller got a pretty quick sub. If not, again, how would the fight have gone?
2 of 3 of Lauzon's losses have come via sub and Efrain has a whole slew of wins by submission so I'm hoping Efrain catches a sub ASAP and just ends this thing.
edman5555
05-16-2010, 02:51 PM
Well I just lost a lot of dough, so to the future...UFC 114
Light Heavyweight bout: Quinton Jackson vs. Rashad Evans[1]
Middleweight bout: Michael Bisping vs. Dan Miller[1]
Heavyweight bout: Todd Duffee vs. Mike Russow[1]
Light Heavyweight bout: Antônio Rogério Nogueira vs. Jason Brilz[1]
Welterweight bout: Diego Sanchez vs. John Hathaway[1]
[edit] Preliminary card (Spike TV)
Welterweight bout: Amir Sadollah vs. Dong Hyun Kim[1]
Lightweight bout: Efrain Escudero vs. Dan Lauzon[1]
[edit] Preliminary card
Lightweight bout: Melvin Guillard vs. Waylon Lowe[1]
Light Heavyweight bout: Luiz Arthur Cane vs. Cyrille Diabaté[1]
Lightweight bout: Aaron Riley vs. Joe Brammer [1]
Middleweight bout: Jesse Forbes vs. Ryan Jensen[1]
edman5555
05-16-2010, 02:55 PM
I watched some footage on Jason Brilz. Vs Eliott marshall. His striking really really stinks. Nog is a pan am medalist. I think Brilz is going to get KO'd or submitted.
Todd Duffee is hyped up to hell due to his 7 sec KO. I'm not saying he isn't good but he is very new and Mike Russow is pretty experienced and will likely be a big dog. Russow is a wrestler asd well, he might be able to get duffee down and avoid the missles Duffee is packing.
Thats all for now.
poopoo333
05-16-2010, 09:42 PM
Dan Lauzon tells the Boston Herald that his brother Joe and his usual coaches have given up on him just two weeks before his UFC 114 fight with Efrain Escudero:
"This is going to be the first fight I don’t have them in my corner," Dan Lauzon said last week. "They’re not going to be there to support me. It (stinks). I don’t really know what I did to deserve this. I wouldn’t do that to anybody. I wouldn’t do that to my brother, I wouldn’t do that to anyone in my gym. It’s not right."
"He trained better than he did before (the ultimatum), but he still didn’t fulfill everything we wanted him to do," Joe Lauzon said. "We said you need to train 10 or 11 times a week, and he didn’t do that. I don’t think he’s done that one time."
Dan Lauzon disputed that account, saying that no specific guidelines were ever presented to him.
"In my eyes, I was doing everything right," he said. "I was making it to the gym; I was training hard two times a day. I was doing everything right. I was completely blown away."
"I was completely hurt by it, especially my brother Joe. I don’t think anybody would ever do that to their brother. I can’t think of anyone else that would ever do that to their brother and just tell them, ’Hey, you’re on your own.’"
"I think I’m going to be pretty much looking for a new gym and new coaches to train with," he said. "People I can actually count on and rely on and not somebody that’s going to halfway through a camp say, ’Hey sorry, you’re going out there alone, good luck.’ "
Lauzon scrambled to find new cornermen and will have WEC fighter Josh Grispi, "Ultimate Fighter" alum John Clarke and training partner Brandon Chase with him in Las Vegas.
poopoo333
05-16-2010, 10:03 PM
To follow up:
http://joelauzon.com/blog/2010/05/so-frustrating/
First off, that's some crazy shit. That's definitely going to fuck with Dan's head and makes me more confident in my Escudero bet.
Second, training 10 or 11 times a week seems like OVERTRAINING.
poopoo333
05-16-2010, 10:59 PM
First off, that's some crazy shit. That's definitely going to fuck with Dan's head and makes me more confident in my Escudero bet.
Second, training 10 or 11 times a week seems like OVERTRAINING.
Yeah, it is making me want to place a bet on Escuderdo. And naw, 10-11 times a week is basically just a few 2 a days. Say conditioning/weights in the AM, sparring/whatever in the PM or something along the lines of that.
Yeah, it is making me want to place a bet on Escuderdo. And naw, 10-11 times a week is basically just a few 2 a days. Say conditioning/weights in the AM, sparring/whatever in the PM or something along the lines of that.
Coming from something of a weightlifting background (not really, but sort of), I come from the school that one should keep their training brief and explosive. Rest essential.
Also, if it takes all that bullshit to be a pro fighter then I guess I just never will be.
poopoo333
05-16-2010, 11:10 PM
Yeah, it is making me want to place a bet on Escuderdo. And naw, 10-11 times a week is basically just a few 2 a days. Say conditioning/weights in the AM, sparring/whatever in the PM or something along the lines of that.
Coming from something of a weightlifting background (not really, but sort of), I come from the school that one should keep their training brief and explosive. Rest essential.
Also, if it takes all that bullshit to be a pro fighter then I guess I just never will be.
Yeah well if you are training for a strength sport, it's totally different. It's not like fighters train to improve the big 3 for PLing, their body parts for BBing, and the clean and jerk/snatch for OLing.
Yeah well if you are training for a strength sport, it's totally different. It's not like fighters train to improve the big 3 for PLing, their body parts for BBing, and the clean and jerk/snatch for OLing.
Most of my knowledge comes from the bodybuilding arena. (Not that I look anything like a bodybuilder.)
It seems to me that muscle recovery would be the same across all sports, though. The body needs time to heal.
I've heard using Creatine helps to aid in the process of muscle healing to allow someone to train two or three days in a row, but I don't know if it's true.
Mr. IWS
05-17-2010, 08:44 AM
Thats some fuckin BS. I dont care what the fuck my brother was doing, I would never do him like that. I dont care if he didnt train one day. I would have at least cornered him, and then parted ways AFTER the fight.
MMA_scientist
05-17-2010, 09:29 AM
Dan has some personal problems too. I remember reading several years ago that he dropped out of HS, and had some drug proboem or something. I am sure that he just keep shitting on everyone and Joe probably put it to him. Either get serious and do this right, or gtfo.
In any event... its pretty brutal. You still have to be in the guy's corner. Its his life, if he doesnt want to train, just let him get his ass kicked again.
Mr. IWS
05-17-2010, 11:32 AM
just let him get his ass kicked again.
Agree. I would give my brother the: "See mutherfucker, you trained like shit, you got your fuckin ass whipped" speech.
Then I wouldnt train with him. I just cant abandon my blood like that, no matter what.
And speaking from experience, me and my brother been through a lot of shit, but we would follow each other into hell if we had too.
MMA_scientist
05-17-2010, 11:51 AM
^^
Yeah, I have brother issues too. I just don't really see how Dan's slacking has much effect on the team. I mean, its one thing if they need him as a training partner and he is messing up Joe's camp. But its his fight, if he wants to go in half assed, just let him reap the consequences and give him the big brother is disappointed look. On the other hand, Dan only got into the UFC because of Joe. So I can see why Joe is pissed, its like you vouch for a guy and then he screws you.
Actually, this is great news. I would love to see it become a massive feud. Then we could have Joe versus Dan.
I hope Efrain is training his ass off.
poopoo333
05-17-2010, 12:34 PM
Damn, money just came in on Efrain. I won't take him at -400.
poopoo333
05-18-2010, 09:27 AM
Rampage's line keeps getting better. I have a feeling we will see him at even money or better within the next week. I will definitely be on him at that price.
Rampage's line keeps getting better. I have a feeling we will see him at even money or better within the next week. I will definitely be on him at that price.
I've already got 1.25u on him but if he gets to even then I will drop another half-unit.
Thewiseman
05-18-2010, 04:56 PM
If Rampage wasnt coming off a year + layoff, I would be putting a big bet in. But, I just have 1.25u on him and another $20 bucks with a friend.
Added:
.4u to win 1u prop that Jackson wins inside the distance
.5u parlay to win 2u on Jackson and Escudero both winning inside the distance.
poopoo333
05-20-2010, 09:18 AM
9 days until the fight, and the lines for the whole main card aren't even up!
poopoo333
05-20-2010, 10:55 PM
4u on Efrain @-400
Mr. IWS
05-21-2010, 08:33 AM
4u on Efrain @-400
With all the shit going on with Lauzon, this actually looks pretty solid.
poopoo333
05-21-2010, 10:48 AM
4u on Efrain @-400
With all the shit going on with Lauzon, this actually looks pretty solid.
I think it would be solid even without the stuff going on with Lauzon tbh.
Todd Duffee doesn't take shit from anyone, not even the UFC.
http://cdn0.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/120429/1goyg5.png
Mr. IWS
05-21-2010, 09:56 PM
WTF is that all about?
WTF is that all about?
Exactly what it says.
The UFC being glib about how he worked at Dairy Queen, and he responded in public basically 'fuck you I don't think that shit is funny'. Pretty hilarious imo.
Mr. IWS
05-21-2010, 10:05 PM
I had no idea he worked at Dairy queen..LOL thats why I was asking.
Was that on the countdown show or something?
I had no idea he worked at Dairy queen..LOL thats why I was asking.
Was that on the countdown show or something?
Nah, the link goes to his UFC profile where it mentions it. I didn't know about it either.
Exactly what it says.
The UFC being glib about how he worked at Dairy Queen, and he responded in public basically 'fuck you I don't think that shit is funny'. Pretty hilarious imo.
Do you get the impression that they were playfully fucking with each other or being serious?
Exactly what it says.
The UFC being glib about how he worked at Dairy Queen, and he responded in public basically 'fuck you I don't think that shit is funny'. Pretty hilarious imo.
Do you get the impression that they were playfully fucking with each other or being serious?
I get the impression he really doesn't like it. But you're right, it's fucking text. So who knows.
Mr. IWS
05-21-2010, 10:11 PM
There will be some Todd Duffee "Dairy Queen Blizzard" War Wagon thread over at sherdog in the next day or two fo sho.
I get the impression he really doesn't like it. But you're right, it's fucking text. So who knows.
I would just think that the Duff wouldn't be so quick to alienate himself from his employer, especially considering he's not exactly an established fighter within the organization.
There will be some Todd Duffee "Dairy Queen Blizzard" War Wagon thread over at sherdog in the next day or two fo sho.
LOL
For sure.
poopoo333
05-22-2010, 04:48 PM
Wow, Bisping is -140 on the greek. I hope he opens in that range on 5dimes!!
Wow, Bisping is -140 on the greek. I hope he opens in that range on 5dimes!!
Bisping at -140, I definitely like that.
I certainly don't think this fight is a lock though. Miller is pretty damn good.
poopoo333
05-22-2010, 05:09 PM
Wow, Bisping is -140 on the greek. I hope he opens in that range on 5dimes!!
Bisping at -140, I definitely like that.
I certainly don't think this fight is a lock though. Miller is pretty damn good.
I just think Bisping is good enough to avoid any trouble on the ground, and he will definitely win the striking. Miller lost the striking match to Maia.
Wow, Bisping is -140 on the greek. I hope he opens in that range on 5dimes!!
Bisping at -140, I definitely like that.
I certainly don't think this fight is a lock though. Miller is pretty damn good.
I just think Bisping is good enough to avoid any trouble on the ground, and he will definitely win the striking. Miller lost the striking match to Maia.
Yeah you're probably right. Maybe I just hate his British face.
Thewiseman
05-22-2010, 05:32 PM
I dont see Bisping up anywhere.
poopoo333
05-22-2010, 06:00 PM
I dont see Bisping up anywhere.
Yeah it got taken down.
Yeah it got taken down.
That was quick.
poopoo333
05-22-2010, 06:12 PM
Yeah it got taken down.
That was quick.
Yeah, honestly, if he opened at -140 on my book, I would have laid down like 10u.
Bisping -190, Miller +160
Lil' Nog -550, Brilz +375
Duffee -240, Russow +190
I liked Bisping at -190 when I first saw it so anything lower and I'll be on it for sure. Just want to look at some video first
Bisping -190, Miller +160
Lil' Nog -550, Brilz +375
Duffee -240, Russow +190
Yeah, you better edit that shit, motherfucker.
And just a FYI the lagrasse stadium sportsbook at the Palazzo is the secret MMA sportsbook no one wants to talk about on forums .I know this now and if someone says it isnt they are lying
Bisping -190, Miller +160
Lil' Nog -550, Brilz +375
Duffee -240, Russow +190
Yeah, you better edit that shit, motherfucker.
I was just wondering why you didnt put them in here but it wasnt a big deal so I just deleted it
bitch
I was just wondering why you didnt put them in here but it wasnt a big deal so I just deleted it
Once I noticed the shit was split between multiple events I just put it all into one thread.
Besides, the correct response is, "Hey, thanks for doing me that favor and posting those lines."
I was just wondering why you didnt put them in here but it wasnt a big deal so I just deleted it
Once I noticed the shit was split between multiple events I just put it all into one thread.
Besides, the correct response is, "Hey, thanks for doing me that favor and posting those lines."
Listen here you little monkey I was doing you the favor by going into the secret MMA sportbook and getting these lines. I could have been killed during my covert mission
But thanks for posting shit for me why I was gone and in the football forum too ,it was probably hard for you to find the football section ::handshake::
But thanks for posting shit for me why I was gone and in the football forum too ,it was probably hard for you to find the football section ::handshake::
LOL
Hey, I just want my efforts recognized, that's all.
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