View Full Version : Rate the UFC's top 5 HW
Mr. IWS
02-22-2010, 01:13 PM
Im in a bit of a debate with a friend about Cain, coming off his win over Nog. He ran right through him, but looking at Nog in his UFC career, Nog looks like he has been finished as a championship contender for a few years.
Anyway...............
1.Lesnar
2.Mir
3.Dos Santos
4.Carwin
5.Cain
Thoughts?
Lesnar
Dos Santos
. . . then Carwin, Mir, and Cain in an order that I cannot determine.
It's really tough to say. 4 of those guys are younger(relatively) fighters who improve greatly from fight to fight. Ultimately the two best will be JDS and Cain in my opinion.
I'm also going on record as saying that if given the chance, Cain will beat Lesnar's big pasty white ass.
Mr. IWS
02-22-2010, 01:44 PM
I'm also going on record as saying that if given the chance, Cain will beat Lesnar's big pasty white ass.
I read what you said about him before, and I am starting to agree a bit. The pace he sets is pure hell.
I will say, I think Lesnar will win, but.......
the later that fight goes, I think Cain's chances of winning go up substantially.
MMA_scientist
02-22-2010, 02:10 PM
I think the UFC has a lot of guys that can beat Mir. I still don't buy Mir, and I don't think I ever will.
I think the UFC has a lot of guys that can beat Mir. I still don't buy Mir, and I don't think I ever will.
I hear what you're saying. His 1 minute destruction of Kongo was pretty impressive, though.
I think the UFC has a lot of guys that can beat Mir. I still don't buy Mir, and I don't think I ever will.
He's definitely top 5 in the UFC.
Mir's problem is when he gets hit hard he folds. Always has been. All 4 of his losses are GNP TKOs. He'll beat a lot of guys and look impressive, but he'll also get knocked out.
Mr. IWS
02-22-2010, 03:16 PM
Mir's problem is when he gets hit hard he folds. Always has been. All 4 of his losses are GNP TKOs. He'll beat a lot of guys and look impressive, but he'll also get knocked out.
As a card carrying member of the Mir Nuthugger club, It pains me to agree with this. Save for Mazzagatti doing a fuckin WWF style run in on Lesnar, he folds up after he takes a couple good shots.
1.Lesnar
2.Cain
3.Carwain
4.Dos Santos
5.Mir
Mr. IWS
02-22-2010, 03:54 PM
1.Lesnar
2.Cain
3.Carwain
4.Dos Santos
5.Mir
Pretty much the way my buddy has it. I cant put Cain that high......Yet
MMA_scientist
02-22-2010, 05:05 PM
Based on actual objective criteria:
1. Lesnar: has wins over Mir and Couture (both top 10 at the time, I think Mir was top 5).
2. Mir: a win over #2 Nogueira (although this is his only top 10 win to date, just sayin. I guess his win over Syvia way back was top 10).
3. Cain: win over #4 Nogueira, top 20 Kongo
4. Dos Santos: has a win over top 10 HW Werdum, top 20 Cro Cop
5. Carwin: win over top 10 Gonzaga
My subjective ranking, who I actually think would win:
1. Lesnar
2. Dos Santos
3. Cain
4. Carwin
5. Gonzaga
Goddamn, everyone has Cain's dick up their ass now.
Where did you put Cain before this weekend, Luke?
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think I'm kind of like Scientist with Mir: I'm not ready to accept him as one of the best. He is good. In fact, he's very good. But he'll never be champ, I don't think. His KO over Nog tells me more about Nog than it does about Cain. I didn't want to believe it and I thought the staph excuse was a good one, but it looks like Nog really has lost his chin.
Between Cain and Carwin, gun to my head I'm still going Carwin. I don't think Cain would be able to outwrestle him like he's done everyone else and I definitely don't see Cain knocking him out. In three rounds, Carwin will touch Cain though and we know Carwin has the ability to shut off his light switch.
^^Mir has been champ twice. BTW I've been on the Cain hype train for awhile now, especially after the Rothwell beatdown. I thought he would beat Nogueira except for the fact that the man he was fighting was Antonio Rodrigo Minotauro Nogueira. Fence sitting.
Scientist, whose rankings are you using?
MMA_scientist
02-22-2010, 05:34 PM
Just from memory, not scientific. I really only look at sherdog rankings anymore.
Goddamn, everyone has Cain's dick up their ass now.
Where did you put Cain before this weekend, Luke?
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think I'm kind of like Scientist with Mir: I'm not ready to accept him as one of the best. He is good. In fact, he's very good. But he'll never be champ, I don't think. His KO over Nog tells me more about Nog than it does about Cain. I didn't want to believe it and I thought the staph excuse was a good one, but it looks like Nog really has lost his chin.
Between Cain and Carwin, gun to my head I'm still going Carwin. I don't think Cain would be able to outwrestle him like he's done everyone else and I definitely don't see Cain knocking him out. In three rounds, Carwin will touch Cain though and we know Carwin has the ability to shut off his light switch.
Before this weekend
1.Lesnar
2.Carwin
3.Mir
4.Cain
5.NOG
6.Dos Santos
The way Cain destroyed NOG makes Mir's win look like so much less than it really was now to me.I personally think Cains wrestling is better than Carwins. Also if we want to be tech. Lesnar hasnt beaten anyone to deserve a number one ranking
I want to see Cain vs dos Santos. Talk about a sick ass fucking fight.
Mr. IWS
02-22-2010, 05:58 PM
I want to see Cain vs dos Santos. Talk about a sick ass fucking fight.
Probably the number 1 fight I would like to see right now.
I personally think Cains wrestling is better than Carwins. Also if we want to be tech.
Carwin's wrestling is a question mark. Most of the wrestling I've seen him do is in a non-UFC highlight video floating around on YouTube where he basically goes around manhandling people. (He also looks like he's roided to the gills in that shit.) I do know he has credentials though and, at least on paper, he should have the ability when he needs it.
So I guess it's really a leap of faith for me to say that I think he'll be able to nullify Cain's wrestling, but with his wrestling background and his size/strength, I think it's likely that he should at least be able to keep it on the feet. I'm not saying he'll outwrestle Cain, only that their wrestling will cancel out. On the feet, Cain is probably more technically proficient and will hit Carwin more, but Carwin has three rounds to land one of his death punches.
Probably the number 1 fight I would like to see right now.
It would certainly answer the question about Dos Santos' grappling ability.
Carwin vs Cain would be semi interesting. On the one hand Carwin got rocked by three consecutive Gonzaga haymakers. On the other hand Cain got rocked several times by Kongo. Carwin has shown a weakness to being taken down but also the ability to pop right back up. Cain has relentless takedowns and a merciless ground attack. Honestly I think Carwin takes it in the first round or not at all. Cain looked fast against Nogueira but Carwin isn't a blundering oaf either.
Svino
03-10-2010, 02:08 AM
My own list:
1.Lesnar
2.Carwin
3.Cain
4.Mir
5.Dos Santos
Dos Santos still needs to prove his ground game / takedown defense. I could be persuaded to switch Carwin and Cain, but I think that while Carwin's wrestling may be weaker, it's "good enough" for almost all opponents, and he has more power in his hands. So far, I'm liking the odds for Carwin against Mir, but I'm concerned that "UberMir" may be different enough from his earlier self that prediction is tough. Any other opinions on that fight?
I think Mir should win pretty handily via being far more skilled, experienced, versatile, and strategic.
That said, if Carwin hits him he might melt into the canvas.
I think Mir should win pretty handily via being far more skilled, experienced, versatile, and strategic.
That said, if Carwin hits him he might melt into the canvas.
Yeah I thought NOG would win for those exact reasons too
Nog fought Carwin?
I guess I missed it. Weird.
Nog fought Carwin?
I guess I missed it. Weird.
no bonehead lol I thought NOG would beat Cain for the exact same reasons
Nog fought Carwin?
I guess I missed it. Weird.
no bonehead lol I thought NOG would beat Cain for the exact same reasons
Well I picked Cain to beat Nog so where does that leave us?
What are you saying exactly?
Just forget it ,go play scrabble
LOL
Dont' take that oaken twang with me, cholo.
Svino
03-10-2010, 07:11 PM
I think Carwin has a chance of winning that fight in the standup with a meaty punch (like his victory over Gonzaga, or Bader v. Jardine). Also, I could see him beating Mir on the ground (like Lesnar v. Mir 2 or Vera v. Mir). And I could see him getting the decision by losing the standup only slightly, then stealing rounds with a couple takedowns (Evans v. Sylva).
I guess for me it centers on the fact that that Carwin is a proven wrestler and Mir has weak takedown D, so if even one of these possibilities can work, Carwin potentially has the tools to get it there.
There are definitely some similarities with Cain vs. Nog. I backed Nog, largely because I thought his positional jiu-jitsu was being underrated. Nog has great sweeps and I couldn't see Cain controlling him on the ground for very long. Of course, we didn't really get to find out and I felt like an idiot for misevaluating the striking balance.
MMA_scientist
03-11-2010, 09:36 AM
There are definitely some similarities with Cain vs. Nog. I backed Nog, largely because I thought his positional jiu-jitsu was being underrated. Nog has great sweeps and I couldn't see Cain controlling him on the ground for very long. Of course, we didn't really get to find out and I felt like an idiot for misevaluating the striking balance.
I actually had Cain winning the fight, but I don't think anyone could have guessed that Cain would have such a striking advantage. His striking looked improved... there is no way to account for that. Sometimes guys just come out with a new skill and it throws your whole breakdown off.
I would still like to see what would happen on the ground between Nog and Cain.
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