SPX
03-12-2010, 06:42 PM
Fucking awesome intereview:
Michael Jai White has been working really hard to get to this point in his career. When I interviewed him for Undisputed 2, I hadn’t seen Spawn and thankfully wasn’t armed with the kind of questions he’s grown weary of fielding. The film is a quality action vehicle that got sold into DVD distribution before the studio understood how much audiences liked it, so we’ll never know how it would’ve performed at the box office.
Soon after, I was surprised to see him in The Dark Knight as a powerful local crime figure who gets brutally cut by the Joker. I bemoaned the fact that he didn’t get to strut his stuff before he joined the casualty list. Grrr!
I spotted his name on the list of movie panels at this year’s San Diego Comic Con, where he was promoting a film called Black Dynamite that he produced with his independent film company, Goliath, so I made sure to get in that line. In fact, I found a seat in the front row almost directly opposite him to make sure that I could get his attention and arrange an interview for Black Belt. The panel discussion and hilarious film clips proved to me and the appreciative fans in attendance that his movie would be a hit. And Black Dynamite, from the writing to the acting to the humor and to the all-original period music, is very much White’s movie.
Fortunately, White was just as enthusiastic about talking up his latest project to Black Belt. The conversation that follows includes pretty much everything we discussed, except for some movie promotion details and how he managed to appear on both sides of the frame in several fight scenes. I guess a man’s got to keep a few secrets …
Describe the martial arts on display in Black Dynamite.
I used the most prevalent style of the ’70s, which was shotokan karate. It’s a style that I have a third-degree black belt in. Black Dynamite is an action comedy. The martial arts in it go back to the Bruce Lee days. It’s a wide shot, and everything occurs in that shot. It’s not like The Bourne Identity, which is cut all over the place and you can’t really tell what’s going on. It’s the editing that creates the action.
I get no sense what’s going on with that kind of editing. All I know is that my eyes are tired.
If you look at a Bruce Lee scene, there are very few cuts. He will complete several techniques in the same shot. I always choose to do that. Even if the layman doesn’t quite understand what the difference is, they absolutely appreciate watching someone perform it. It’s like a dance. If you watch Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers, you see them from head to toe and appreciate the beauty that they’re bringing—just like with Bruce Lee; you’re watching him complete the entire kick.
Were there other styles you considered for Black Dynamite?
Back then you’d see some styles of kung fu. Martial arts were pretty basic and more pure back then. American GIs were coming over from Okinawa, where they learned it as a weapon. When you were a black belt, you more than likely had your share of broken bones. There was no padding; you had to use bare fists, bare knuckles and bare feet. It wasn’t a business back then.
At the same time, the public was more mystified and in many cases even frightened by it.
Absolutely—they had cause to be. Martial arts like karate were being used for actual life-and-death combat. The soldiers who learned it were using it as a weapon. It wasn’t watered down back then. If you learned how to strike traditionally, you were learning how to kill someone, and that’s what the GIs came back with.
That was the thing with shotokan. It was a style designed to protect the king. So you got a one-chance strike.
Actually, the precursor of shotokan was goju-ryu, which I also have a third-degree black belt in. Shotokan is goju made easy; that’s really what it was about.
As farmers, Okinawans weren’t allowed to have weapons, so the art had to be effective and work pretty quickly because you didn’t get too many chances if you missed the first shot.
Absolutely. They were fighting against Japanese with swords. It had to be one strike one kill. And that’s what the GIs came back with. Now it’s a business. The average black belt stands for time served at a karate class.
Time served and fees paid …
You have 10-year-old black belts walking around, which is absolutely ridiculous. It’s absolutely a business now. If it were true martial arts, becoming a black belt would be like becoming a Navy SEAL. There were very few who made it to that rank back in the day. It was very difficult. Now, can you imagine a 10-year-old Navy SEAL?
Would you say that black soldiers returning from Vietnam provided the type of independent spirit that the period films reflect?
Historically, when the martial arts were imported to the United States, the schools were in the ghettos. You couldn’t get somebody in Beverly Hills to take that kind of abuse. The teacher would hit you with a stick to discipline you. It was barbaric. Really, the modern martial arts stem out of the ghetto. The people who brought it back trained and taught in the ghetto, where it was really difficult, where life was hard. That’s why there are so many great Brazilian fighters. The ghettos of Brazil and martial arts go hand in hand. It breeds a very tough type of individual. The martial arts in the ’80s, ’90s and now spread out to the suburbs where it could no longer be practiced in the way that it was intended.
It became a sport or a pastime. Self-defense is laughable in that context. What is there to defend yourself against, your mom?
People just don’t learn the real art. As soon as you put a pad and gloves on, you’ve watered it all down. Back when I started, you had to condition your knuckles. You had to strike a makiwara board until your knuckles bled. You numbed your shins kicking these wooden objects, so it was really different. Those conditioned shins or your knuckles become weapons.
Chotoku Kyan (1870-1945) was known for having those big knobby knuckles.
They all had giant knuckles then. That was the only way you trained. Hitting somebody with those knuckles was like hitting them with a hammer.
So if you’re doing martial arts, you’re going to be deforming yourself in some way.
Absolutely, and you’re going to be hit by people with those same deformed knuckles.
So you’ve got to get more deformed to beat him.
You’re going to be used to being hit by someone with a hammer for knuckles. It’s going to weed out the weak. With the discipline and strength of will that you develop, there’s nothing a guy from the street is going to be able to do to you that’s going to hurt you. You’ll laugh.
Why were martial arts movies so popular in the black communities in the ’70s and ’80s?
There were similarities between the African-American experience and the Chinese experience. Most of those movies were about the Chinese being oppressed by the Japanese. In The Chinese Connection, they were the underdogs. I think it appealed on a psychological level but also on the visceral level of the martial arts. It was an expression of strength that was much needed in the ghetto. You need an outlet, and those movies provided a cathartic outlet that you could identify with in the city. Anyone who’s going through certain degrees of pain wants to express that. Martial arts lets you rid yourself of that tension. It’s the best therapy that you can find in such surroundings.
There were probably some martial arts studios not too far away from the movie theaters.
It seems like the majority of them evolved and came from the ghettos. A lot of the pioneers’ students came from the ghetto. The martial arts were not for the weak. If you were weak, you’d damn sure get strong in a hurry.
Or you’d be injured all the time.
It takes a certain kind of person to be injured and come back. That really developed character.
The martial arts were a crucible. It burns out the weak in you.
That’s why it was brought over by GIs. It took them even deeper than their military training. Look at Chuck Norris. He learned it in the military. Joe Lewis—military. You had to train your mind and body and have your mind at peace to be able to earn the black belt. People didn’t even realize they were going through something philosophical, but they were. Every time you stand up to train, it’s your mind that gets you there. Without your mind, you can’t push your body forward. Maybe the quest was originally for dominance and strength, but your mind had to become strong or you wouldn’t make it.
There’s now a split between the pragmatic type of martial arts student and the complete martial arts student. I think you see that in some of the reality-based stuff where they strip away everything except what works physically.
That’s why I’m so happy to see traditional martial artists like Lyoto Machida and Fedor Emelianenko who are solo martial artists in every sense of the word. They’re able to dominate people who [operate] on the surface. Fedor is a simple family man who is not about the gladiatorial thing.
I train with a lot of these MMA guys and there’s so much that they’re lacking because they skip over the basics. Sometimes it’s harder to teach someone who hasn’t learned the proper basics. If they don’t have those, it’s very easy to beat them. They’re absolutely confused when a traditionalist comes out who can strike efficiently and break bricks with his bare hands, the balls of his feet and shins.
A lot of these UFC guys have been through this farm system, and they’re fighting against other gung-ho people without the proper skills. They have grappling skills, but it doesn’t take very long to be proficient in that. But to strike—I liken it to Tiger Woods’ swing. I’m a lot bigger and probably a lot stronger than Tiger Woods. If you had to have one of us hit you in the chin with a golf club, you better choose me because Tiger Woods, with his technique, could probably crack your chin in half with a golf club. He’s perfected that swing. He’s done that thousands, maybe millions of times.
It’s like Lyoto Machida in his fights. It’s all about efficiency.
I’ve watched Machida for a long time. We fight very similar. Rampage has contacted me to try to help him out a bit in the event that he has to fight Machida. A lot of the MMA guys have no idea how to block the stuff I throw because they’re just not used to that fighting style.
Would you say it’s a counterstriking style?
It’s taking advantage of the flaws in the other person’s style. The easiest way to fight is counterfighting if you have good technique because there’s going to be incredible opportunities against someone who doesn’t move with balance and correct footwork. That alone will afford you a lot of opportunities. Exploiting the weaknesses of [an opponent] who hasn’t fought someone like you is the easiest way to fight.
How do you fight someone who knows what you know?
It’s a lot more entertaining. It’s more of a chess game. I really would love to spar with Machida. I think we’d have a great time.
http://blackbeltmag.com/archives/816
Michael Jai White has been working really hard to get to this point in his career. When I interviewed him for Undisputed 2, I hadn’t seen Spawn and thankfully wasn’t armed with the kind of questions he’s grown weary of fielding. The film is a quality action vehicle that got sold into DVD distribution before the studio understood how much audiences liked it, so we’ll never know how it would’ve performed at the box office.
Soon after, I was surprised to see him in The Dark Knight as a powerful local crime figure who gets brutally cut by the Joker. I bemoaned the fact that he didn’t get to strut his stuff before he joined the casualty list. Grrr!
I spotted his name on the list of movie panels at this year’s San Diego Comic Con, where he was promoting a film called Black Dynamite that he produced with his independent film company, Goliath, so I made sure to get in that line. In fact, I found a seat in the front row almost directly opposite him to make sure that I could get his attention and arrange an interview for Black Belt. The panel discussion and hilarious film clips proved to me and the appreciative fans in attendance that his movie would be a hit. And Black Dynamite, from the writing to the acting to the humor and to the all-original period music, is very much White’s movie.
Fortunately, White was just as enthusiastic about talking up his latest project to Black Belt. The conversation that follows includes pretty much everything we discussed, except for some movie promotion details and how he managed to appear on both sides of the frame in several fight scenes. I guess a man’s got to keep a few secrets …
Describe the martial arts on display in Black Dynamite.
I used the most prevalent style of the ’70s, which was shotokan karate. It’s a style that I have a third-degree black belt in. Black Dynamite is an action comedy. The martial arts in it go back to the Bruce Lee days. It’s a wide shot, and everything occurs in that shot. It’s not like The Bourne Identity, which is cut all over the place and you can’t really tell what’s going on. It’s the editing that creates the action.
I get no sense what’s going on with that kind of editing. All I know is that my eyes are tired.
If you look at a Bruce Lee scene, there are very few cuts. He will complete several techniques in the same shot. I always choose to do that. Even if the layman doesn’t quite understand what the difference is, they absolutely appreciate watching someone perform it. It’s like a dance. If you watch Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers, you see them from head to toe and appreciate the beauty that they’re bringing—just like with Bruce Lee; you’re watching him complete the entire kick.
Were there other styles you considered for Black Dynamite?
Back then you’d see some styles of kung fu. Martial arts were pretty basic and more pure back then. American GIs were coming over from Okinawa, where they learned it as a weapon. When you were a black belt, you more than likely had your share of broken bones. There was no padding; you had to use bare fists, bare knuckles and bare feet. It wasn’t a business back then.
At the same time, the public was more mystified and in many cases even frightened by it.
Absolutely—they had cause to be. Martial arts like karate were being used for actual life-and-death combat. The soldiers who learned it were using it as a weapon. It wasn’t watered down back then. If you learned how to strike traditionally, you were learning how to kill someone, and that’s what the GIs came back with.
That was the thing with shotokan. It was a style designed to protect the king. So you got a one-chance strike.
Actually, the precursor of shotokan was goju-ryu, which I also have a third-degree black belt in. Shotokan is goju made easy; that’s really what it was about.
As farmers, Okinawans weren’t allowed to have weapons, so the art had to be effective and work pretty quickly because you didn’t get too many chances if you missed the first shot.
Absolutely. They were fighting against Japanese with swords. It had to be one strike one kill. And that’s what the GIs came back with. Now it’s a business. The average black belt stands for time served at a karate class.
Time served and fees paid …
You have 10-year-old black belts walking around, which is absolutely ridiculous. It’s absolutely a business now. If it were true martial arts, becoming a black belt would be like becoming a Navy SEAL. There were very few who made it to that rank back in the day. It was very difficult. Now, can you imagine a 10-year-old Navy SEAL?
Would you say that black soldiers returning from Vietnam provided the type of independent spirit that the period films reflect?
Historically, when the martial arts were imported to the United States, the schools were in the ghettos. You couldn’t get somebody in Beverly Hills to take that kind of abuse. The teacher would hit you with a stick to discipline you. It was barbaric. Really, the modern martial arts stem out of the ghetto. The people who brought it back trained and taught in the ghetto, where it was really difficult, where life was hard. That’s why there are so many great Brazilian fighters. The ghettos of Brazil and martial arts go hand in hand. It breeds a very tough type of individual. The martial arts in the ’80s, ’90s and now spread out to the suburbs where it could no longer be practiced in the way that it was intended.
It became a sport or a pastime. Self-defense is laughable in that context. What is there to defend yourself against, your mom?
People just don’t learn the real art. As soon as you put a pad and gloves on, you’ve watered it all down. Back when I started, you had to condition your knuckles. You had to strike a makiwara board until your knuckles bled. You numbed your shins kicking these wooden objects, so it was really different. Those conditioned shins or your knuckles become weapons.
Chotoku Kyan (1870-1945) was known for having those big knobby knuckles.
They all had giant knuckles then. That was the only way you trained. Hitting somebody with those knuckles was like hitting them with a hammer.
So if you’re doing martial arts, you’re going to be deforming yourself in some way.
Absolutely, and you’re going to be hit by people with those same deformed knuckles.
So you’ve got to get more deformed to beat him.
You’re going to be used to being hit by someone with a hammer for knuckles. It’s going to weed out the weak. With the discipline and strength of will that you develop, there’s nothing a guy from the street is going to be able to do to you that’s going to hurt you. You’ll laugh.
Why were martial arts movies so popular in the black communities in the ’70s and ’80s?
There were similarities between the African-American experience and the Chinese experience. Most of those movies were about the Chinese being oppressed by the Japanese. In The Chinese Connection, they were the underdogs. I think it appealed on a psychological level but also on the visceral level of the martial arts. It was an expression of strength that was much needed in the ghetto. You need an outlet, and those movies provided a cathartic outlet that you could identify with in the city. Anyone who’s going through certain degrees of pain wants to express that. Martial arts lets you rid yourself of that tension. It’s the best therapy that you can find in such surroundings.
There were probably some martial arts studios not too far away from the movie theaters.
It seems like the majority of them evolved and came from the ghettos. A lot of the pioneers’ students came from the ghetto. The martial arts were not for the weak. If you were weak, you’d damn sure get strong in a hurry.
Or you’d be injured all the time.
It takes a certain kind of person to be injured and come back. That really developed character.
The martial arts were a crucible. It burns out the weak in you.
That’s why it was brought over by GIs. It took them even deeper than their military training. Look at Chuck Norris. He learned it in the military. Joe Lewis—military. You had to train your mind and body and have your mind at peace to be able to earn the black belt. People didn’t even realize they were going through something philosophical, but they were. Every time you stand up to train, it’s your mind that gets you there. Without your mind, you can’t push your body forward. Maybe the quest was originally for dominance and strength, but your mind had to become strong or you wouldn’t make it.
There’s now a split between the pragmatic type of martial arts student and the complete martial arts student. I think you see that in some of the reality-based stuff where they strip away everything except what works physically.
That’s why I’m so happy to see traditional martial artists like Lyoto Machida and Fedor Emelianenko who are solo martial artists in every sense of the word. They’re able to dominate people who [operate] on the surface. Fedor is a simple family man who is not about the gladiatorial thing.
I train with a lot of these MMA guys and there’s so much that they’re lacking because they skip over the basics. Sometimes it’s harder to teach someone who hasn’t learned the proper basics. If they don’t have those, it’s very easy to beat them. They’re absolutely confused when a traditionalist comes out who can strike efficiently and break bricks with his bare hands, the balls of his feet and shins.
A lot of these UFC guys have been through this farm system, and they’re fighting against other gung-ho people without the proper skills. They have grappling skills, but it doesn’t take very long to be proficient in that. But to strike—I liken it to Tiger Woods’ swing. I’m a lot bigger and probably a lot stronger than Tiger Woods. If you had to have one of us hit you in the chin with a golf club, you better choose me because Tiger Woods, with his technique, could probably crack your chin in half with a golf club. He’s perfected that swing. He’s done that thousands, maybe millions of times.
It’s like Lyoto Machida in his fights. It’s all about efficiency.
I’ve watched Machida for a long time. We fight very similar. Rampage has contacted me to try to help him out a bit in the event that he has to fight Machida. A lot of the MMA guys have no idea how to block the stuff I throw because they’re just not used to that fighting style.
Would you say it’s a counterstriking style?
It’s taking advantage of the flaws in the other person’s style. The easiest way to fight is counterfighting if you have good technique because there’s going to be incredible opportunities against someone who doesn’t move with balance and correct footwork. That alone will afford you a lot of opportunities. Exploiting the weaknesses of [an opponent] who hasn’t fought someone like you is the easiest way to fight.
How do you fight someone who knows what you know?
It’s a lot more entertaining. It’s more of a chess game. I really would love to spar with Machida. I think we’d have a great time.
http://blackbeltmag.com/archives/816