View Full Version : UFC 119 Sept 25th
http://www.bestfightodds.com/events/296.png
This is also the card that could be the Lesnar -Cain fight . NOG-Rampage is already on this card
Fuck the Mexicutioner. He'll probably be the next HW champion.
Mr. IWS
07-05-2010, 05:03 PM
Fuck the Mexicutioner. He'll probably be the next HW champion.
Only if we keep betting against him.
This is also the card that could be the Lesnar -Cain fight . NOG-Rampage is already on this card
Kevin Iole:
:
Lesnar will not be fighting Velasquez on Sept 25 in Indianapolis
Mr. IWS
07-06-2010, 04:03 PM
I think that Lesnar/Cain fight goes down around New Years.
MMA_scientist
07-06-2010, 04:34 PM
I didn't know they were coming to Indy. I will definitely be attending live.
Sean Sherk vs. Evan Dunham announced for this card now
Mr. IWS
07-08-2010, 08:43 AM
Sean Sherk vs. Evan Dunham announced for this card now
I think we can get betting odds on if Sherk will pull out of the fight, before the actual betting odds for his fight with Dunham.
Not gonna be Cain/Lesnar on this card. Sounds like Brock only wants to fight 1.5 times a year.
Antonio Rogerio Nogueira vs. Ryan Bader
&
Mark Hunt vs. Sean McCorkle
Mr. IWS
07-08-2010, 01:32 PM
Mark Hunt? WTF?
Mark Hunt? WTF?
LOL thats what I thought when I first read it ::lmao::
FiveOuncesofPain.com has recently learned of two additional heavyweights with the potential to make an impact in the UFC, as a bout between K-1 and PRIDE veteran Mark Hunt and the undefeated Sean McCorkle looks to be brewing for UFC 119.
5 Oz was recently informed of the UFC’s discussions with both athletes along with the likely match-up of Hunt vs. McCorkle through sources close to the promotion.
One of the most decorated kickboxers of our time, Hunt captured multiple K-1 titles before making the transition to MMA in 2004 where he suffered a first round armbar submission at the hands of Hidehiko Yoshida before stringing together five consecutive victories that included names like Mirko “Cro Cop” Filipovic and Wanderlei Silva. Surprisingly, Hunt is currently on a five-fight losing streak, suffering defeats at the hands of highly regarded fighters such as Josh Barnett, Fedor Emelianenko, Alistair Overeem, Melvin Manhoef and Gegard Mousasi.
Sporting an unblemished record of 7-0, McCorkle has finished 6 of the 7 victims that have fallen before him during the five years he has spent as a professional. The heavy handed knockout artist took a three year break from the sport in 2007 but returned with a vengeance in 2010, racking up consecutive TKO’s in the span of just two months.
UFC 119 is looking likely to take place on September 25 from the Conseco Fieldhouse in Indianapolis, Indiana.
::handshake::
Mr. IWS
07-08-2010, 02:05 PM
I actually googled to see if there was another Mark Hunt..LOL
Nogueira vs. Mir II will be the main event of UFC 119
Both NOG's on the same card ,co-main event and main event
Mr. IWS
07-08-2010, 02:32 PM
Nogueira vs. Mir II will be the main event of UFC 119
MURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
Mark fucking Hunt?
"We don't sign guys coming off of losses" (referring to Fedor)
Nice hypocrisy Dana. Hunt has lost 5 straight in the first round.
I won't complain as long as I get an atomic butt drop in the octagon. Can Hunto actually make 265?
Mr. IWS
07-08-2010, 03:10 PM
Mark fucking Hunt?
"We don't sign guys coming off of losses" (referring to Fedor)
Nice hypocrisy Dana. Hunt has lost 5 straight in the first round.
I won't complain as long as I get an atomic butt drop in the octagon. Can Hunto actually make 265?
In fairness though, Hunt doesnt come with the co-promotion/co-branding BS.
That said, they couldnt find a guy better than Hunt?
Nice hypocrisy Dana. Hunt has lost 5 straight in the first round.
you mean just like the "we dont do freak shows"(Couture-Toney)
or making fun of strikeforce having Kimbo then signing him
edman5555
07-08-2010, 05:31 PM
Anyone else think Frank destroys Nog again?
Anyone else think Frank destroys Nog again?
I think it's definitely a strong possibility. Although I hope Nog has a different strategy than just stand there and get blasted.
Moreso though I'm intrigued to see what happens in a ground battle.
Svino
07-08-2010, 06:53 PM
Anyone else think Frank destroys Nog again?
I think it's definitely a strong possibility. Although I hope Nog has a different strategy than just stand there and get blasted.
Moreso though I'm intrigued to see what happens in a ground battle.
Yeah, I'm afraid Nog's hands and chin are shot. Their first fight made me sad.
Also, what do you guys think about the other Nog fight?
edman5555
07-08-2010, 08:29 PM
I dont know. Nog looked pretty decent against Brilz on the ground. I thought Brilz won the fight but I have no idea if Bader is better than him on the ground. I bet he has better takedowns though and Brilz was using his takedown/striking combo to land a lot of strikes standing and get a lot of TD's.
Also, what do you guys think about the other Nog fight?
I'd have to watch videos of the two to make a legit decision
Honestly it's hard to judge Minotoro on that fight. He got an opponent in Brilz with 3 weeks notice and the guy ended up performing alot better than anyone expected of him. Brilz looked really good more than Minotoro looked bad in that fight. He almost subbed Brilz like 3 times in that fight if I remember right, and he got his own takedowns/sweeps in there as well. That said He's going to have his hands full with Bader. Bader could definitely win this fight if he can avoid the sub.
Dana's reasoning for the Mark Hunt signing:
part of the pride deal we contractually owe him fights from our purchase of the company
Dana's reasoning for the Mark Hunt signing:
part of the pride deal we contractually owe him fights from our purchase of the company
Yeah I saw that. That's possible but it sounds like a real BS reason. Hunt has fought 4 times since then in DREAM and K1. Then again maybe they didn't want him in 2007 and now he needs money and is doing whatever he can.
Either way it looks like they're using him to put over a prospect. They'll cut him after one loss, most likely. Two at the most.
I'm calling Bader over Nog big. I just hope he comes in with better striking technique this fight.
Svino
07-09-2010, 02:07 AM
In hindsight, it's clear that much of Little Nog's vaunted striking display against Cane was due to Cane's glaring weakness against southpaws. It's also tempting to think "Bader is like a better version of Brilz" so he should be able to win. I'd have to watch more video to get a better idea, but I bet Nog will still open at least -170 or so.
Mr. IWS
07-09-2010, 08:56 AM
I like Lil Nog, and Murr.
I see Mir taking this one again.
Pat Audinwood makes his UFC debut in September against Aaron Riley
::handshake::
Chris Lytle vs. Matt Serra added to this card
Chris Lytle vs. Matt Serra added to this card
No shit.
That's an interesting fight, especially considering their history.
I like Lytle, but everyone knows who I'll be cheering for.
Should be a great scrap this time, unlike that tentative borefest they had he first time. Both guys will let loose more as there isn't a title shot on the line.
Waylon Lowe vs Steve Lopez
Lightweights Waylon Lowe (8-3 MMA, 0-1 UFC) and Steve Lopez (12-2 MMA, 0-1 UFC) are looking for redemption when they meet at UFC 119.
The matchup was first reported by MMAFighting.com and subsequently confirmed to MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com (http://www.mmajunkie.com)) with a source close to the event.
UFC 119 takes place Sept. 25 at the 18,000-seat Conseco Fieldhouse in Indianapolis. A heavyweight rematch between Frank Mir and Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira is expected to headline.
Lowe and Lopez both fell short in their respective octagon debuts. Lowe, an elimination-round castoff of "The Ultimate Fighter 9," filled in for an injured Thiago Tavares and met Melvin Guillard on short notice at UFC 114.
A wrestler by trade, Lowe did all he could to force the fight to the ground but fell prey to Guillard's striking power and took a knee to the body that ended his night.
Lopez also met a division standout in his UFC debut when he took on Jim Miller at UFC 103 this past September. Lopez had lost the first round and was attempting to turn the second round in his favor when he threw a punch and separated his shoulder. He quickly conceded the bout, and a TKO victory went to Miller.
Lopez later had surgery on the shoulder, and the recovery process was slow going.
MMA_scientist
07-14-2010, 09:18 AM
Sadly, I think Mir will win it again. I think Nog has had it as much as it saddens me. Also, I can't stand Mir, so I would like nothing more than to see Nog beat him up and push him back to the middle of the division where he belongs.
I think Little Nog will beat Bader though. Brilz was an abberation, and I think Nog won that anyway. Little Nog does not have the submission game that big Nog has though... It should be a close fight.
Mr. IWS
07-14-2010, 10:14 AM
^^^^^^^^ WAR MURR!
poopoo333
07-14-2010, 10:36 AM
I want to see Nog/Lesnar.
I want to see Nog/Lesnar.
That would be a waste of time
MMA_scientist
07-14-2010, 01:12 PM
^^ No interest in seeing a battle tested nice guy vet like Nog get his head beat in by one of the biggest a-holes in MMA. It would make me very sad.
^^ No interest in seeing a battle tested nice guy vet like Nog get his head beat in by one of the biggest a-holes in MMA. It would make me very sad.
you must not have watched Nogueira/Sapp
^^ No interest in seeing a battle tested nice guy vet like Nog get his head beat in by one of the biggest a-holes in MMA. It would make me very sad.
Another Lesnar hater ::bulb::
MMA_scientist
07-14-2010, 05:16 PM
^^
Lesnar is an asshat, and he would beat Nog into bloody oblivion. What? Lesnar is not a douche? GTFO.
MMA_scientist
07-14-2010, 05:17 PM
^^ No interest in seeing a battle tested nice guy vet like Nog get his head beat in by one of the biggest a-holes in MMA. It would make me very sad.
you must not have watched Nogueira/Sapp
Yeah, because Lesnar = Sapp.
::swifty::
^^
Lesnar is an asshat, and he would beat Nog into bloody oblivion. What? Lesnar is not a douche? GTFO.
Personally I like Lensar's attitude . Theres nothing wrong with being confident if you can back it up and so far he has.
Now if your like Rampage who talks shit for months how he's going to desttoy Evans and then hits the octagon and does nothing then I consider that a douchebag
poopoo333
07-14-2010, 06:26 PM
I have always wanted to see Lesnar/Nog, that's why I said that. I just think it would be awesome if Nog pulled it off.
MMA_scientist
07-15-2010, 09:22 AM
Personally I like Lensar's attitude . Theres nothing wrong with being confident if you can back it up and so far he has.
Now if your like Rampage who talks shit for months how he's going to desttoy Evans and then hits the octagon and does nothing then I consider that a douchebag
I don't mid confidence or even cockiness... Its all the fake WWE crap he does. Real fighters don't do that crap. A real crazy person like Mike Tyson, just walks off. All teh slobbering and WWE mouthing just annoys me, plus all his other annoying traits
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz51/bpilgrim/brock-lesnar-ufc.gif
Roid rage / fake animal act? check.
Gloating over Herring after a decision? check.
getting a title shot for beating Herring? check.
Talking shit to Mir after fight? check.
Telling crowd he is going to hump his wife/ladyboy? check.
80's bully haircut? check.
getting arrested in Louisville for steroids, but then it turns out to just be HGH? check.
Denies ever using steroids? lmao.
yep. he is a douche.
Not quite in my top five douchbags... I actually rooted for him to beat Mir. But still, not someone I would want to hang out with.
poopoo333
07-15-2010, 11:02 AM
Mir -170
Nog +130
MMA_scientist
07-15-2010, 11:14 AM
Mir is probably worth a bet @ -170.
poopoo333
07-15-2010, 11:15 AM
Mir is probably worth a bet @ -170.
I can't bring myself to do that.
MMA_scientist
07-15-2010, 11:19 AM
^^ I feel the same way... but if you are in business you have to do it. It makes me sick rooting for Mir to beat Nog... but there is a good chance I will do it and then root for Nog anyway. Then when Mir beats him, it won't sting as much.
^^^ fan talk in a betting forum ....... ::shake::
NOG is shot imo. I think Mir takes this easily
MMA_scientist
07-15-2010, 02:32 PM
^^^ fan talk in a betting forum ....... ::shake::
I couldnt follow teh sport as closely as I do without being a fan first.
Fandom is why I am such a badass.
Anyway, I said I would bet against Nog as much as it pains me, but then root for Mir to lose. I can be happy and sad at the same time. Happy as a bettor, sad as a Nog fan and Mir hater.
I couldnt follow teh sport as closely as I do without being a fan first.
Fandom is why I am such a badass.
Anyway, I said I would bet against Nog as much as it pains me, but then root for Mir to lose. I can be happy and sad at the same time. Happy as a bettor, sad as a Nog fan and Mir hater.
Just joking with ya
MMA_scientist
07-15-2010, 02:37 PM
I know. Me too.
Me = / badass. I am actually not going very well lately. But I feel like I got my mojo back now... I am only betting up to -250 now and a lot of underdogs, but still applying my criteria to the fights. And I have been winning again.
Thewiseman
07-15-2010, 07:20 PM
Mir still has value at -270.
Personally I like Lensar's attitude . Theres nothing wrong with being confident if you can back it up and so far he has.
Now if your like Rampage who talks shit for months how he's going to desttoy Evans and then hits the octagon and does nothing then I consider that a douchebag
I don't mid confidence or even cockiness... Its all the fake WWE crap he does. Real fighters don't do that crap. A real crazy person like Mike Tyson, just walks off. All teh slobbering and WWE mouthing just annoys me, plus all his other annoying traits
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz51/bpilgrim/brock-lesnar-ufc.gif
Roid rage / fake animal act? check.
Gloating over Herring after a decision? check.
getting a title shot for beating Herring? check.
Talking shit to Mir after fight? check.
Telling crowd he is going to hump his wife/ladyboy? check.
80's bully haircut? check.
getting arrested in Louisville for steroids, but then it turns out to just be HGH? check.
Denies ever using steroids? lmao.
yep. he is a douche.
Not quite in my top five douchbags... I actually rooted for him to beat Mir. But still, not someone I would want to hang out with.
I think Brock would be cool to hang out with. I think all the stuff he does is an act from his WWE days .LikeI said I dont mind guys talking shit ,its the ones the talk shit and that dont back it up or the ones I dont like
I don't mid confidence or even cockiness... Its all the fake WWE crap he does. Real fighters don't do that crap.
So he's not a "real fighter" because he does shit you don't like?
Nothing Brock has done to date is worse than anything Nick Diaz by himself, Anderson Silva, or the guys involved in the brawl at the end of Strikeforce a few months ago. If Brock had never been a WWE star nobody would be holding it against him so badly. Nick Diaz has flipped off the crowd at LEAST two seperate times that I know of. Anderson Silva just got done dancing in the middle of the octagon and running away from Demian Maia for two rounds. Five or six guys jumped Jason Miller when he never touched anybody. Yet somehow Brock isn't a "real" fighter because he talked shit to an opponent who he shares a hating relationship with, laughed at an opponent who put up no kind of fight for fifteen minutes, and flipped the crowd off when they boo'd him?
. . .laughed at an opponent who put up no kind of fight for fifteen minutes. . .
Herring also insulted Brock before the fight, basically saying that Brock wasn't worthy of fighting him.
Nothing Brock has done to date is worse than anything Nick Diaz by himself, Anderson Silva, or the guys involved in the brawl at the end of Strikeforce a few months ago. If Brock had never been a WWE star nobody would be holding it against him so badly. Nick Diaz has flipped off the crowd at LEAST two seperate times that I know of. Anderson Silva just got done dancing in the middle of the octagon and running away from Demian Maia for two rounds. Five or six guys jumped Jason Miller when he never touched anybody. Yet somehow Brock isn't a "real" fighter because he talked shit to an opponent who he shares a hating relationship with, laughed at an opponent who put up no kind of fight for fifteen minutes, and flipped the crowd off when they boo'd him?
MMAscientist is probably mad at Lesnar for leaving the WWE . It probably broke his heart thats why he still holds a grudge.
poopoo333
07-21-2010, 03:34 PM
http://www.bestfightodds.com/events/296.png (http://www.bestfightodds.com)
odds coming out everywhere today ::haptime::
Wow
Nog's worth a bet at +190, I'd think. I'll also take Stephens as an underdog.
Interesting to see that Sherk is a) scheduled to fight again, and b) the underdog.
The Nog/Bader line is also interestingly close.
And Serra an underdog to Lytle? Former WW champ who beat Lytle (if only arguably) in their first matchup is the dog?
Wow
Nog's worth a bet at +190, I'd think. I'll also take Stephens as an underdog.
Interesting to see that Sherk is a) scheduled to fight again, and b) the underdog.
The Nog/Bader line is also interestingly close.
And Serra an underdog to Lytle? For mer WW champ who beat Lytle (if only arguably) in their first matchup is the dog?
I'd put Serra/Lytle at even.
Mr. IWS
07-21-2010, 04:14 PM
Im all in on Beltran
COME AT ME BRO!
MMA_scientist
07-21-2010, 04:18 PM
I think Nog will win but I think the line will move to make Bader a bigger favorite.
Why is Serra the dog? He should be favored IMO and I think he will win.
I am going to this live, so I am trying to refrain from betting too much.
But Doerkson is worth a bet IMO. CB is not that good, and Doerkson has shown some really solid grappling for years now. He is hot and cold, but he could totally submit CB or outstrike him.
poopoo333
07-21-2010, 04:20 PM
I honestly think every dog is live.
MMA_scientist
07-21-2010, 04:22 PM
Pulled the trigger
1u on lil Nog EV
.5u on Doerkson @ +195
poopoo333
07-21-2010, 04:33 PM
My first reaction was that Bader would win, but I forgot that Bader loses steam after the first round in his fights. I think Lil Nog @+ odds is a gift from the Jason Brilz fight.
Any thoughts on Dunham/Sherk? I was hoping to get Dunham @+ odds, but that's not the case. Sherk might have value now though, but he is always injured, hasn't fought since UFC 98, is getting old, and probably just needs a paycheck right now.
Any thoughts on Dunham/Sherk? I was hoping to get Dunham @+ odds, but that's not the case. Sherk might have value now though, but he is always injured, hasn't fought since UFC 98, is getting old, and probably just needs a paycheck right now.
I like Sherk, but I think he loses this one. He's going to have problems with Dunham's length/size and I'm also losing faith in his wrestling. So if he can't outstrike Dunham . . . and he can't outwrestle him . . . what happens?
Let's see where the line goes. I think it's possible we'll be able to get Dunham at + odds, but the line could possibly go the other way as well.
MMA_scientist
07-21-2010, 04:43 PM
My first reaction was that Bader would win, but I forgot that Bader loses steam after the first round in his fights. I think Lil Nog @+ odds is a gift from the Jason Brilz fight.
Any thoughts on Dunham/Sherk? I was hoping to get Dunham @+ odds, but that's not the case. Sherk might have value now though, but he is always injured, hasn't fought since UFC 98, is getting old, and probably just needs a paycheck right now.
Sherk has been out too long and keeps getting reinjured. Sherk can probably put him on his back and avoid his submissions. I like the matchup for Sherk, and I think a healthy Sherk would win a top control special... but it will be 18 months between fights for him.
As for Nog, I don't think Bader brings anything that Brilz didn't bring except more power in his hands. Nog has more time to prepare this time too... Brilz came in on short notice... but his gameplan is always the same (get on top). I don't recall who Nog was supposed to fight, but I don't think it was a wrestler. I think it hurt Nog more than Brilz.
I don't recall who Nog was supposed to fight, but I don't think it was a wrestler.
Forrest
MMA_scientist
07-21-2010, 04:46 PM
I don't recall who Nog was supposed to fight, but I don't think it was a wrestler.
Forrest
Right. Totally different fight for Nog. Still, he should have been able to beat Brilz more easily.
Mr. IWS
07-21-2010, 04:50 PM
The way he looked against Brilz has me leery. i would be all over Him if he had a better performance.
MMA_scientist
07-21-2010, 04:57 PM
The way he looked against Brilz has me leery. i would be all over Him if he had a better performance.
I am the opposite. Had he loked good against Brilz, he would not be a dog here. He would have probably opened in the -200 range depending on how good he looked. I would not like him as a favorite.
Svino
07-21-2010, 09:00 PM
Oooh boy. I feel like the odds on Little Nog are good, but this is precisely the kind of matchup where I never bet on the striking-and-jits guy. I'd be breaking a personal rule... but I'm tempted.
Mr. IWS
07-22-2010, 08:35 AM
I am the opposite. Had he loked good against Brilz, he would not be a dog here. He would have probably opened in the -200 range depending on how good he looked. I would not like him as a favorite.
I would be ok with laying that had he took care of Brilz.
1u on The Terror at +115.
Wonder where that line's gonna go. . .
Anyone think Sherk's worth a play at +190.
As I said earlier in the thread, I think Dunham probably wins this one, but at the current odds it seems the value may be on Sherk.
MMA_scientist
07-27-2010, 05:45 PM
^^ I think the value is with Sherk for sure. I would bet him but he has just been out too long for my taste. I don't liek betting guys coming off injury layoffs.
Anyone think Sherk's worth a play at +190.
As I said earlier in the thread, I think Dunham probably wins this one, but at the current odds it seems the value may be on Sherk.
I'd wait to see how he looks at weigh ins
Thanks.
I went ahead and took him for .5u. I agree the layoff is troubling, as well as the fact that he just hasn't looked great in his last few matches, but I'm not taking Dunham at those odds.
ManBoobKilla
07-27-2010, 10:59 PM
30U on Dunham @-200! There is no possible way that Dunham loses this fight! I see this fight as free money
MMA_scientist
07-27-2010, 11:01 PM
^ are you serious?
What about Sherk by top control?
ManBoobKilla
07-28-2010, 12:06 AM
^ are you serious?
What about Sherk by top control?
I just dont see it happening. At all. I actually think that Dunham has a wrestling advantage, he is scrappy as hell and has way way better BJJ than sherk. Mix that with he reach, better boxing, and sherks ring rust I see a clear cut win for Dunham
Sounds like Nick Diaz all over again.
ManBoobKilla
07-28-2010, 12:47 AM
Sounds like Nick Diaz all over again.
What do you mean?
Nick Diaz had more reach, better boxing, and better Jiu Jitsu than Sean Sherk. He lost a unanimous decision to Sherk too.
ManBoobKilla
07-28-2010, 01:14 AM
Nick Diaz had more reach, better boxing, and better Jiu Jitsu than Sean Sherk. He lost a unanimous decision to Sherk too.
True but sherk has not evolved since those days he has stayed the same over the years while everyone around him has improved. I actually think that he is worse than he use to be.
He still has cardio for days and wrestling enough to hold almost anyone down if he gets it to the ground.
ManBoobKilla
07-28-2010, 01:50 AM
He still has cardio for days and wrestling enough to hold almost anyone down if he gets it to the ground.
Try as you might guys but none of this scares me. I think Shrek is done for. He is very overrated
No one is trying to scare you, dude. Your going to bet what you want to bet regardless of what any or all of us says I would think. Whats done is done we're just offering some insight after the fact is all. That said good luck on the bet.
MMA_scientist
07-28-2010, 10:00 AM
Yeah, not trying to scare you. I hope Dunham wins. But if not for Sherk's injuries and the fact that he had been out for a while, I would favor him.
Dunham's all around bjj is better for sure. But he is not going to submit Sherk. Sherk has some very solid guard passing skills (see Hermes Franca). I would put Sherk's wrestling ahead of Dunham's though, we disagree there.
He has only lost to champions (Edgar, Penn, Hughes and GSP). There is no shame in any of those losses. I think you are underestimating Sherk. I like Dunham too, but I think a healthy Sherk would beat him.
That said, I hope Dunham wins and I am not trying to scare you out of your bet. Liek Ludo said, this is a forum where we talk about our bets and why we should or should not make them.
I think Dunham is overvalued even for a regular sized bet. But Sherk will have been out a 16 months with injuries... this is too competitive a fight to come back to, and I think Dunham will get it done. But I would put him at like -130.
You do have to agree with ManBoob that even before the long layoff Sherk seemed to be losing steam. You could see it in his matchup with Griffin. Age(and fights) catch up to fighters. Sherk has many fights, and has pushed his body to the limit for a long time, and I think the effects of that were being seen in his fights previous to this long layoff. I am not saying Sherk is done, just saying that IMO he is not the same fighter he was a few years ago.
Definite edge to Dunham with all factors considered, but at the current price I think that edge is basically priced in.
MMA_scientist
07-28-2010, 12:25 PM
^^ I can agree with that, but he still mananged to beat Griffin and give a very competitive fight to Edgar. I think a lot of Sherk's problems stem from his sudden desire to stand and box. I think a lot of what we are seeing with Sherk is injury related though... which is why I say I would favor a healthy Sherk. The Sherk that fought Tyson will probably get beat. I do favor Dunham, but like you, I think the line is set about right all things considered, although I would still give Sherk a little more chance than teh line indicates. It is a no bet for me... and a 30u bet seems crazy (assuming 30u actually means something to Manboob in relation to his bankroll... I have seen a lot of guys just say "my unit is X dollars"--- that means nothing unless you have a defined bankroll). So when I see 30u, I usually assume at max a 100u bankroll... so to bet 30% of a total stake on this fight (or any fight) seems sort of insane.
I think a lot of Sherk's problems stem from his sudden desire to stand and box.
I agree, though some say that Sherk COULDN'T take his most recent opponents down and that's why he didn't try, or he only tried a handful of times. When you consider it's BJ, Griffin, and Edgar we're talking about, that might be true. And if it is, will he be able to take Dunham down? It's definitely questionable.
I usually assume at max a 100u bankroll... so to bet 30% of a total stake on this fight (or any fight) seems sort of insane.
I agree.
MMA_scientist
07-28-2010, 12:57 PM
[quote=MMA_scientist]I think a lot of Sherk's problems stem from his sudden desire to stand and box.
I agree, though some say that Sherk COULDN'T take his most recent opponents down and that's why he didn't try, or he only tried a handful of times. When you consider it's BJ, Griffin, and Edgar we're talking about, that might be true. And if it is, will he be able to take Dunham down? It's definitely questionable.
I usually assume at max a 100u bankroll... so to bet 30% of a total stake on this fight (or any fight) seems sort of insane.
I agree.[/quote:2s6ed1aj]
Against Edgar, Frankie was the one trying to get takedowns but Sherk stuffed him easily. Sherk did get Edgar down in his two takedown attempts, though Edgar got right back up on the first one and gave him teh second one for a guillotine attempt.
Against Griffin, he only attempted one takedown, and he got it.
I do not think Dunham can take Sherk down and I do think Sherk can take Dunham down. But I doubt Sherk will be able to hold him there and I question Sherk's gameplanning lately.
I do not think Dunham can take Sherk down and I do think Sherk can take Dunham down.
Well I hope you're right, and I hope he can hold him there, both for the sake of my half-unit and for Sherk's sake, too. He needs a win after losing to Edgar and he needs to make a statement that he can still hang.
If I was unloading my bank account on Dunham I would have bet it at -130 not -200
ManBoobKilla
07-28-2010, 08:48 PM
If I was unloading my bank account on Dunham I would have bet it at -130 not -200
Believe me I wish I could have but I was on vacation and -200 was the first I saw it.
Believe me I wish I could have but I was on vacation and -200 was the first I saw it.
Got ya ::handshake::
Svino
08-03-2010, 12:12 AM
The line continues to shift: Sherk is up to +180 on BookMaker. I will probably wait to see if it goes any higher and bet on Sherk if it starts to turn.
MMA_scientist
08-03-2010, 09:27 AM
I am close to betting on Sherk. That is ridiculous. I like Dunham too, but we are talking about one of the best lightweights in the world here. Sherk is a stud.
I am close to betting on Sherk. That is ridiculous. I like Dunham too, but we are talking about one of the best lightweights in the world here. Sherk is a stud.
I went ahead and did a little something on Sherk. I do favor Dunham, but I put .5u on Sherk at +190. If I lose it then no big deal.
edman5555
08-15-2010, 09:58 AM
Anyone else think Frank Mir over Noguiera is the lock of the year?
Mr. IWS
08-15-2010, 10:06 AM
Anyone else think Frank Mir over Noguiera is the lock of the year?
I wouldnt say lock, but I think the fight will go about the same way as last time, with the same result.
edman5555
08-15-2010, 11:14 AM
Anyone else think Frank Mir over Noguiera is the lock of the year?
I wouldnt say lock, but I think the fight will go about the same way as last time, with the same result.
Yeah nothing can be an "absolute lock" but this is pretty close and it has a good line thanks to Shane Carwin KO'ing Frank. I dont see how Nog can be any better, in fact I would think he would be slightly worse. He's just older and more beat up after Cain KO'd him. Frank is now bigger and stronger. He dropped Kongo with a punch before Subbing him. I think his standup is getting better and better, and is superior to Nog's.
I doubt Nog can take him down..and on the ground Nog is probably better at submissions but Mir will also have a strength advantage.
It comes down to Nog not being able to wrestle Mir down to the ground. Nog only has 2 ko's in 40 fights. He subs people and relies on his chin. That won't work out against Frank.
edman5555
08-15-2010, 11:16 AM
I'm also thinking about Joey Beltran. Mitrione only has 2 fights?? I have to look that up again.
Mr. IWS
08-15-2010, 11:23 AM
I think Mir will come in smaller in this fight than his previous 2.
edman5555
08-15-2010, 11:45 AM
But probably bigger than old mir and smaller than new mir.
sideloaded
08-15-2010, 11:48 AM
Seriously who at this point bets on Noriega?
NOG has been shot for years imo
Just read NOG is out of the Mir fight
Rodrigo Nogueira is out of his UFC 119 fight with Frank Mir after suffering an injury in training, a Brazilian source tells Fighters Only.
The nature of the injury was not disclosed but the source says it will require surgery. Nogueira is said to be “incredibly frustrated” by it and expects to be out until the New Year.
The fight with Mir was to headline UFC 119 and was a rematch of their meeting, which saw Nogueira stopped for the first time in his professional career.
Fighters Only has also been told the UFC has already secured a replacement and it will be “a really big name opponent”, although the source we spoke to did not provide a name.
..
Mr. IWS
08-15-2010, 02:17 PM
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC CCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKK! that was gonna be an win for Murr.
Tell Dana to sign Timmeh Sylvia.
Maybe Ben rothwell steps in?
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC CCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKK! that was gonna be an win for Murr.
Tell Dana to sign Timmeh Sylvia.
Maybe Ben rothwell steps in?
Ben Rothwell ?
The article said "a really big name opponent" I'm not sure Rothwell is considered a big name lol
Mr. IWS
08-15-2010, 02:24 PM
Yeah, I read that after I posted. This could be a LOL moment when they reveal this "big name" Who is really out there to fight? Cro Cop? Barnett? Fedor? I doubt any of those guys get signed.
Maybe it's Antoni Hardonk out of retirement.
Mr. IWS
08-15-2010, 02:33 PM
Did Cro Cop even resign yet? I thought he was taking time out before if he decided if he was gonna fight again.
Cro Cop makes the most sense here. He's the only big name not currently tied up with something else in the UFC. Nelson has knee surgery, Brock is champ and won't fight a non contender, Carwin is awaiting Nelson, and Junior is waiting for Cain/Lesnar to be over so he can get his shot.
poopoo333
08-15-2010, 02:43 PM
It will be Cro Cop.
Or Jon Jones.
edman5555
08-15-2010, 02:45 PM
I just wrote a message about how I thought that was the lock of the year. Now its gone.What the fuck. I literally just lost income.
poopoo333
08-15-2010, 02:49 PM
I didn't really want to see this fight anyways. If Mir stopped Nog again with ease I think a part of me would die.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I really think Nog at least had more chance than ya'll were giving him.
In any case, it's disappointing.
Nog would have lost again anyway. Mir is still faster, still better with his hands at this point(six years ago it's not even close and Nog would destroy Mir anywhere), and still has the better chin(again, only right now is this true)
poopoo333
08-15-2010, 03:08 PM
Ok let's say it is Cro Cop...
who wins?
Mr. IWS
08-15-2010, 03:10 PM
Ok let's say it is Cro Cop...
who wins?
Murr
Mr. IWS
08-15-2010, 03:14 PM
Concur
ConcURR?
It IS Cro Cop.
Mirko ‘CroCop’ Filipovic will be stepping in for an injured Rodrigo Nogueira at UFC 119, Fighters Only can confirm.
We broke the news of Nogueira’s withdrawal earlier and can now confirm that Filipovic is the replacement.
Nogueira’s injury is undisclosed at this point but a Brazilian source tells us it is one that requires surgery and is not an recurrence of the staph infection he suffered around the time of the first fight with Mir.
Filipovic’s inclusion in the UFC 1109 headlining fight was notified to Fighters Only by sources close to the event. It will be the first time that the Croatian legend and former PRIDE FC title challenger has fought Mir, a former UFC heavyweight champion.
He has fought two former UFC heavyweight champions in the past, going 1-1 with Kevin Randleman and 3-0 over Josh Barnett while fighting in PRIDE, the Japanese promotion which once rivalled the UFC in stature.
UFC 119 is an upcoming mixed martial arts event to be held by the Ultimate Fighting Championship on September 25, 2010 at Conseco Fieldhouse in Indianapolis, Indiana. The event will be the first that the UFC has hosted in Indiana.
http://www.fightersonlymagazine.co.uk/n ... hp?id=5077 (http://www.fightersonlymagazine.co.uk/news/viewarticle.php?id=5077)
And you guys are crazy, Cro Cop is going to kick Mir's head off his shoulders.
Well shit. Fucking prophets in the house.
edman5555
08-15-2010, 04:51 PM
I'm almost tempted to say Cro cop can possibly take this. It's probably going to be closer than the line will indicate though.
I'm almost tempted to say Cro cop can possibly take this. It's probably going to be closer than the line will indicate though.
I dont see why he cant take this. I'd make it a rather close line but if its big (-200 or more) Cro Cop for me
poopoo333
08-15-2010, 06:24 PM
I think Mir's way to win is to pull guard, because I don't think he will be able to drag Cro Cop to the mat. Maybe he can do the whole fake the takedown throw the hook thing like he did against Kongo.
edman5555
08-15-2010, 06:41 PM
I think Mir's way to win is to pull guard, because I don't think he will be able to drag Cro Cop to the mat. Maybe he can do the whole fake the takedown throw the hook thing like he did against Kongo.
Mir can muscle him against the cage and go for the takedown but that won't be a sure thing. I don't think he has much of a shot(takedown). Cro cop wins the striking battle I would think, depending on what he has left.
brooks85
08-16-2010, 05:25 PM
just my two cents
I was heavy on mir over nog and ill be heavy on mir over CC, if the line is similar. However, I expect to get Mir a better number in this matchup.
CC doesnt have anything left. Barry was destroying mir until he broke his foot and hand in the first round(hand was his main weapon.)
Mir's new hands will be able to light CC up I believe. It will be one of those bets I would not mind chalking up a loss. Id love to see cc KO mir.
edman5555
08-16-2010, 05:27 PM
just my two cents
I was heavy on mir over nog and ill be heavy on mir over CC, if the line is similar. However, I expect to get Mir a better number in this matchup.
CC doesnt have anything left. Barry was destroying mir until he broke his foot and hand in the first round(hand was his main weapon.)
Mir's new hands will be able to light CC up I believe.
I'm sure mir will be a fav for this and I think he will probably win though there is a chance cro cop can outstrike him. Mir's striking isn't really that great.
Barry was destroying mir until he broke his foot and hand in the first round(hand was his main weapon.)
I thought Barry/Mir was pretty close, until Mir used that inside leg trip that lead to the outstanding flying armbar finish.
That was a good card overall. I especially liked Yeti vs the Magical Unicorn.
MMA_scientist
08-16-2010, 05:38 PM
Did not see this announcement. I think CroCop wins this... tough matchup for Mir. Mir doesn't have to goods to get it down.
The only issue is if Mir is a good striker or not. I am not convinced. I will be on CC as a dog.
Barry was destroying mir until he broke his foot and hand in the first round(hand was his main weapon.)
I thought Barry/Mir was pretty close, until Mir used that inside leg trip that lead to the outstanding flying armbar finish.
That was a good card overall. I especially liked Yeti vs the Magical Unicorn.
LOL what a dick. You're infringing on my turf again.
I agree with the BJJ lawyer. Mir isn't going to take Cro Cop down easily, and for all the bluster about Mir's striking, he ain't the type to put the hurtin on Cro Cop. There's a big difference between Pat Barry and Frank Mir when it comes to striking. Mir could win, but I like Cro Cop as a dog.
LOL what a dick. You're infringing on my turf again.
You ain't got a monopoly on wit and sarcasm, bro.
brooks85
08-16-2010, 06:44 PM
well the first round of Barry/CC was no where near to a competitive fight. And all that barry needed was speed, that was it, it wasn't technique that was beating CC. Then, barry broke his hand and foot, then it became a competitive fight. Mir is not a top striker but he is very technical and does have speed. Mir might not be faster than barry but fast enough for the obviously aging CC.
Svino
08-16-2010, 07:44 PM
I'm picking Cro-Cop in this fight, also. If he comes in as a big dog, I'll be betting on him heavily.
poopoo333
08-16-2010, 07:49 PM
Devils advocate question:
Would you guys like Cro Cop in this fight if he never fought Pat Barry?
Svino
08-16-2010, 07:57 PM
Devils advocate question:
Would you guys like Cro Cop in this fight if he never fought Pat Barry?
Yeah. I wouldn't say we learned that much from the Barry fight, actually. Mir is a great matchup for Cro Cop though. I think Cro Cop still has the ability to sprawl-and-brawl well. Does the fact that Cro Cop was outstruck by Kongo, Overeem and JDS mean he will be outstruck by Mir? I doubt it.
edman5555
08-16-2010, 08:25 PM
He won't be outstruck by mir. No way. He might get bullied around the cage or taken down though. Mir can submit him also. That is a problem.
Mir's takedowns suck ass, his only methods of getting this fight to the ground would be if he pulled guard or knocked Mirko down with strikes.
poopoo333
08-16-2010, 10:48 PM
Gotta copy someone from SD.
Break down Mirko. Mir KO.
MMA_scientist
08-16-2010, 11:05 PM
Mir doesn't have the chops to takedown CC. The only question is if CC can still strike. He hasn't really outstruck anyone lately... and apparently Mir can strike now. Style-wise, CC could not hope for a better fight. The only issue is if Mir can actually beat him standing.
I will be on CC @ +180
Svino
08-16-2010, 11:24 PM
^^^^^ I completely agree. I'd say that this is Cro Cop's chance to beat a relevant HW again. If he doesn't get this one, he either needs to retire completely or stick to the senior-league fights.
^^^ I agree with the last two posts .I said if Mir is -200 or more I'm all over Cro Cop .
The Barry fight has no bearing on my decision. Barry is a fast striker,Mir is not . Even if C.C had been beat by Barry that doesnt mean he still wouldnt beat Mir
Mr. IWS
08-17-2010, 08:55 AM
When was the last time Mirko actually looked good and wrecked someone good on the feet? Barnett back in 2006?
Barry - Getting lit the fuck up until Barry fell apart
Peroush - Nigga please
JDS - He hung in there, ill give him that.
Al-Turk - Nigga please
Hong man - LOLSRSLY
Ubereem - who can blame him
Mizuno - what?
Kongo - he got beat down
Gonzaga - nuff said
Sanchez - nigga please
Barnett - He fuckin wrecked Barnett
I know im the resident Mir nuthugger, and Im probably not gonna bet the fight anyway, but I dont see Cro Cop having the chops to KO anyone above can status anymore. He hasnt proved that he can do it in over 4 years.
Cro cop didnt look bad against JDS,in fact he fought the best fight against him so far of anyone in the UFC. JDS would wreck Mir in under a round imo
I know he didnt beat him
Mr. IWS
08-17-2010, 01:34 PM
Cro cop didnt look bad against JDS,in fact he fought the best fight against him so far of anyone in the UFC. JDS would wreck Mir in under a round imo
I know he didnt beat him
I feel you on that. Im just saying, it seems like everyone, not just at IWS, seem to think Cro Cop, and automatically assume he will LHK Mir's wig off. He hasnt done that shit in years. I mean, the best he looked the last couple years, was getting the shit beat out of him by JDS, but hanging in there. To me, thats not saying much.
poopoo333
08-17-2010, 01:44 PM
Cro cop didnt look bad against JDS,in fact he fought the best fight against him so far of anyone in the UFC. JDS would wreck Mir in under a round imo
I know he didnt beat him
I feel you on that. Im just saying, it seems like everyone, not just at IWS, seem to think Cro Cop, and automatically assume he will LHK Mir's wig off. He hasnt done that shit in years. I mean, the best he looked the last couple years, was getting the shit beat out of him by JDS, but hanging in there. To me, thats not saying much.
I don't think he will LHK Mir's wig off. I just think he will win the striking and be able to avoid getting put on his back and held there.
Mr. IWS
08-17-2010, 01:50 PM
I think this is one of those fights where, after Mir wins, it will be like; "Cro Cop is an old man, best days are long behind him, he is washed up." Kind of like Mir/Nog 1
Nog can cry all he wants about staff. He looked like shit against Herring and Sylvia, got exterminated by Mir, and continued to look like shit after.
I am baffled as to why everyone thinks CC is just going to kick Mirs ass. Maybe you all see something I do not.
BTW, CC is already talking about how he will not be 100% for this fight, usually not a good sign when one fighter starts with the excuses before the fight happens.
Because it just seems like a style thing.
MMA_scientist
08-17-2010, 02:18 PM
I think this is one of those fights where, after Mir wins, it will be like; "Cro Cop is an old man, best days are long behind him, he is washed up." Kind of like Mir/Nog 1
Nog can cry all he wants about staff. He looked like shit against Herring and Sylvia, got exterminated by Mir, and continued to look like shit after.
But Nog beat Randy right after.
MMA_scientist
08-17-2010, 02:20 PM
sbjj, I am not saying CC will kill Mir. I am saying it is stylistically favorable to CC. He should be able to force a striking match with Mir, who has never shown great takedown skills. Maybe Mir beats him standing though.
I just think CC can keep it upright unless he gets dropped with strikes.
Mr. IWS
08-17-2010, 02:21 PM
[quote="IWS Zak":3oymww7t]I think this is one of those fights where, after Mir wins, it will be like; "Cro Cop is an old man, best days are long behind him, he is washed up." Kind of like Mir/Nog 1
Nog can cry all he wants about staff. He looked like shit against Herring and Sylvia, got exterminated by Mir, and continued to look like shit after.
But Nog beat Randy right after.[/quote:3oymww7t]
I was gonna put that in there, but beating a 46 year old glorified 205er doesnt score many points for him IMO.
MMA_scientist
08-17-2010, 02:34 PM
I was gonna put that in there, but beating a 46 year old glorified 205er doesnt score many points for him IMO.
But Randy beat GG, Timmeh, and got a gift win against Vera.
So I am guessing you are on Toney?
Mr. IWS
08-17-2010, 02:36 PM
So I am guessing you are on Toney?
Yup, I got 20 units on him.
[quote="IWS Zak":yisnwgap]I was gonna put that in there, but beating a 46 year old glorified 205er doesnt score many points for him IMO.
But Randy beat GG, Timmeh, and got a gift win against Vera.
So I am guessing you are on Toney?[/quote:yisnwgap]
Toney +600 100 units ::handshake::
Cro cop didnt look bad against JDS,in fact he fought the best fight against him so far of anyone in the UFC. JDS would wreck Mir in under a round imo
I know he didnt beat him
I feel you on that. Im just saying, it seems like everyone, not just at IWS, seem to think Cro Cop, and automatically assume he will LHK Mir's wig off. He hasnt done that shit in years. I mean, the best he looked the last couple years, was getting the shit beat out of him by JDS, but hanging in there. To me, thats not saying much.
I'm only going to be on CC if the line is close to the NOG line(+280). If its a really low line I might bet Mir
I guess I'm a fence sitter for now, but I'm leaning more toward Zak's side. Cro Cop hasn't beat anyone of Mir's caliber in a long time. I don't think that Mir is at the very top of the HW ladder, but he's not more than a step below, either.
poopoo333
08-17-2010, 03:01 PM
Cro cop didnt look bad against JDS,in fact he fought the best fight against him so far of anyone in the UFC. JDS would wreck Mir in under a round imo
I know he didnt beat him
I feel you on that. Im just saying, it seems like everyone, not just at IWS, seem to think Cro Cop, and automatically assume he will LHK Mir's wig off. He hasnt done that shit in years. I mean, the best he looked the last couple years, was getting the shit beat out of him by JDS, but hanging in there. To me, thats not saying much.
I'm only going to be on CC if the line is close to the NOG line(+280). If its a really low line I might bet Mir
Nog was like +190.
I am guessing the line will be similar though. Mir -260/ Cro Cop +200
I guess I'm a fence sitter for now, but I'm leaning more toward Zak's side. Cro Cop hasn't beat anyone of Mir's caliber in a long time. I don't think that Mir is at the very top of the HW ladder, but he's not more than a step below, either.
Agreed, but the thought of him outstriking Cro Cop just seems comical to me.
I guess I'm a fence sitter for now, but I'm leaning more toward Zak's side. Cro Cop hasn't beat anyone of Mir's caliber in a long time. I don't think that Mir is at the very top of the HW ladder, but he's not more than a step below, either.
Agreed, but the thought of him outstriking Cro Cop just seems comical to me.
As did the thought of GG outstriking him before they fought. i just do not think CC has the goods anymore. he has a hard time pulling the trigger, and the snap is all but gone on his punches. He is pretty much an old worn out fighter IMO. CC was supposed to run right through both GG and Kongo, both of whom are probably a step below Mir.
I guess I'm a fence sitter for now, but I'm leaning more toward Zak's side. Cro Cop hasn't beat anyone of Mir's caliber in a long time. I don't think that Mir is at the very top of the HW ladder, but he's not more than a step below, either.
Agreed, but the thought of him outstriking Cro Cop just seems comical to me.
As did the thought of GG outstriking him before they fought. i just do not think CC has the goods anymore. he has a hard time pulling the trigger, and the snap is all but gone on his punches. He is pretty much an old worn out fighter IMO. CC was supposed to run right through both GG and Kongo, both of whom are probably a step below Mir.
I'd put GG basically on par with Mir. I see your point though.
I'd put GG basically on par with Mir. I see your point though.
Gonzaga never beats anyone good. Look at his record. Since the Mirko win,
he's beat: Justin McCully, Josh Hendrix, Chris Tuchsherer
he's lost to: Couture, Werdum, Carwin, JDS
The motherfucker is straight up one of the most overrated fighters ever.
Mir's last three wins are Kongo, Nog, and Lesnar.
I'd put GG basically on par with Mir. I see your point though.
Gonzaga never beats anyone good. Look at his record. Since the Mirko win,
he's beat: Justin McCully, Josh Hendrix, Chris Tuchsherer
he's lost to: Couture, Werdum, Carwin, JDS
The motherfucker is straight up one of the most overrated fighters ever.
Mir's last three wins are Kongo, Nog, and Lesnar.
Mir would lose to Couture, Werdum, Carwin, JDS. Mir fluked out on Lesnar and will never beat him again, and I'd favor Gonzaga against zombie Nog as well. I put him on par with Mir because they are big HWs with similar skillsets and both wilt when they get punched.
BillyPilgrim
08-17-2010, 05:28 PM
GG would beat Mir IMO. GG is like Mir with better takedowns and better striking.
Mir would lose to Couture, Werdum, Carwin, JDS. Mir fluked out on Lesnar and will never beat him again, and I'd favor Gonzaga against zombie Nog as well. I put him on par with Mir because they are big HWs with similar skillsets and both wilt when they get punched.
Mir would lose to Couture . . . who lost to Zombie Nog . . . who would lose to Gonzaga?
I mean, this is some MMAthematics that legitimately doesn't make sense.
GG would beat Mir IMO. GG is like Mir with better takedowns and better striking.
I think Mir would make GG toss his salad.
Mir would lose to Couture, Werdum, Carwin, JDS. Mir fluked out on Lesnar and will never beat him again, and I'd favor Gonzaga against zombie Nog as well. I put him on par with Mir because they are big HWs with similar skillsets and both wilt when they get punched.
Mir would lose to Couture . . . who lost to Zombie Nog . . . who would lose to Gonzaga?
I mean, this is some MMAthematics that legitimately doesn't make sense.
Whatever, you get my point.
Whatever, you get my point.
I really don't.
GG fights a good fighter and loses . . . and then the UFC gives him some mid-tier guy who he beats . . . then he loses again to a good fighter.
It's the story of his career. Even his ONE really good win is tainted by the fact that we now know CC was at the beginning of his downward spiral.
Well then, you're dumb. BillyPilgrim gets my point, and he's way gayer than you.
BillyPilgrim
08-17-2010, 05:37 PM
Whatever, you get my point.
I really don't.
GG fights a good fighter and loses . . . and then the UFC gives him some mid-tier guy who he beats . . . then he loses again to a good fighter.
It's the story of his career. Even his ONE really good win is tainted by the fact that we now know CC was at the beginning of his downward spiral.
you also have to look at the fights themselves. GG has looked good in most of his losses. He was beating Werdum standing. He rocked Carwin and just made a mental mistake before getting steroid punched. Only Randy really put it to him.
Zombie Nog> Randy > Vera > Mir... MMAth doesn't work... just stop it.
I thin GG is better at everything than Mir and would therefore beat him.
I think SPX has a very valid point. Mir has proven he CAN beat good fighters, while GG has not proven that.
I also think Mir could hang with both Randy and Werdum both. Maybe beat both of them.
Whatever, you get my point.
I really don't.
GG fights a good fighter and loses . . . and then the UFC gives him some mid-tier guy who he beats . . . then he loses again to a good fighter.
It's the story of his career. Even his ONE really good win is tainted by the fact that we now know CC was at the beginning of his downward spiral.
you also have to look at the fights themselves. GG has looked good in most of his losses. He was beating Werdum standing. He rocked Carwin and just made a mental mistake before getting steroid punched. Only Randy really put it to him.
Zombie Nog> Randy > Vera > Mir... MMAth doesn't work... just stop it.
I thin GG is better at everything than Mir and would therefore beat him.
LOL! Fat Mir after his accident. The guy is not even the same fighter. The fact is, like him or not, Mir has beat some good fighters asses. GG has not...NEVER!
LOL! Fat Mir after his accident. The guy is not even the same fighter. The fact is, like him or not, Mir has beat some good fighters asses. GG has not...NEVER!
So Nog is good, but Cro Cop isn't? Is that what we're getting at? Kongo isn't very good either. And of course Mir wasn't considered to be "back" until he won a fight. He wasn't fat at all in that fight. I think Brandon Vera would still whoop his ass.
BillyPilgrim
08-17-2010, 05:46 PM
I think SPX has a very valid point. Mir has proven he CAN beat good fighters, while GG has not proven that.
I also think Mir could hang with both Randy and Werdum both. Maybe beat both of them.
I think Randy would give Mir the Gonzaga treatment. Werdum would wreck Mir IMO.
Mir has not beaten anyone very good aside from Nog.
He beat Brock once, but that is over now. Kongo is not a top level fighter, and he never was. Mir has also taken some flat out ass whuppings.
Pe De Pano would beat Mir again IMO. Everyone like to blame the wreck, but Pe De Pano is a WAY WAY better grappler than Mir. And he would beat him if they fought tomorrow.
Mir has proven he CAN beat good fighters, while GG has not proven that.
This is how I see it. GG, for years now, has been riding on this hypetrain of potential. Supposedly there are all these good fighters out there that he can beat, but when he gets the chance he just never delivers. There was a lot of chatter on the forums before the JDS fight about how he was going to "expose" JDS. Now the best his fans can do is talk about how he didn't look bad before getting TKOd 4 minutes into the fight.
LOL! Fat Mir after his accident. The guy is not even the same fighter. The fact is, like him or not, Mir has beat some good fighters asses. GG has not...NEVER!
So Nog is good, but Cro Cop isn't? Is that what we're getting at? Kongo isn't very good either. And of course Mir wasn't considered to be "back" until he won a fight. He wasn't fat at all in that fight. I think Brandon Vera would still whoop his ass.
What? Go watch the fight again. That was the pinnacle of his fatness. No, Crocop has not proved to be ANY GOOD in the cage, Nog has. Why is that so hard to see? Dude, I HATE Mir, I can not stand him...but to deny that he does not have an edge over GG in the strength of his wins is borderline insane.
That Kongo guy that you say is not very good beat CC up. But was dropped and tapped in a minute by Mir.
BillyPilgrim
08-17-2010, 05:50 PM
LOL! Fat Mir after his accident. The guy is not even the same fighter. The fact is, like him or not, Mir has beat some good fighters asses. GG has not...NEVER!
I forgot that Mir gets a pass until he wins again...
CroCop was awesome until GG ruined him. He was ranked in the top 5 at the time, I think he might have even been number 2.
So in your world, fighter change from good to bad based on who beat them when.
There is no fat mir. Mir got his shit pushed in by a guy with 2 fights, and barely got by Dan Christionson. Those are the facts, anything else is your spin.
.
There is no fat mir. Mir got his shit pushed in by a guy with 2 fights, and barely got by Dan Christionson. Those are the facts, anything else is your spin.
Dude, GTFO.
Only a retard can't see that Mir was in terrible shape in his first fights after his accident. That same retard would fail to see that Mir has gotten leaner, stronger, and has better hands today.
I think SPX has a very valid point. Mir has proven he CAN beat good fighters, while GG has not proven that.
I also think Mir could hang with both Randy and Werdum both. Maybe beat both of them.
I think Randy would give Mir the Gonzaga treatment. Werdum would wreck Mir IMO.
Mir has not beaten anyone very good aside from Nog.
He beat Brock once, but that is over now. Kongo is not a top level fighter, and he never was. Mir has also taken some flat out ass whuppings.
Pe De Pano would beat Mir again IMO. Everyone like to blame the wreck, but Pe De Pano is a WAY WAY better grappler than Mir. And he would beat him if they fought tomorrow.
You are simply discrediting all of his wins and magifying his losses, even ones that happened when he looked like James Toney. Randy has not given someone the GG treatment since...well, he fought GG.
Every recent win Mir has you just simply discredit, even going so far as to say that one of his wins is "over now"...yea, I guess you are right, that past win is indeed over. and Kongo of course sucks. Never mind the fact that GG has not even beat anyone good enough to make it to a fight with the same guys that Mir has beat.
BillyPilgrim
08-17-2010, 05:58 PM
.
There is no fat mir. Mir got his shit pushed in by a guy with 2 fights, and barely got by Dan Christionson. Those are the facts, anything else is your spin.
Dude, GTFO.
Only a retard can't see that Mir was in terrible shape in his first fights after his accident. That same retard would fail to see that Mir has gotten leaner, stronger, and has better hands today.
So if I use your logic... I can just decide when a fighter's losses count or dont. And clearly, it must be right...
Only a retard woudl failt o see that Randy peaked at the GG fight, and that he clearly slowed down after that fight and is no longer the same fighter.
Only retard would fail to see that CC peaked at the GG fight, got ruined and was never the same after that.
See, I can make totally assinine and arbitrary statements to support my position too.
LOL! Fat Mir after his accident. The guy is not even the same fighter. The fact is, like him or not, Mir has beat some good fighters asses. GG has not...NEVER!
I forgot that Mir gets a pass until he wins again...
CroCop was awesome until GG ruined him. He was ranked in the top 5 at the time, I think he might have even been number 2.
So in your world, fighter change from good to bad based on who beat them when.
There is no fat mir. Mir got his shit pushed in by a guy with 2 fights, and barely got by Dan Christionson. Those are the facts, anything else is your spin.[/quote]
That line nearly made me fall down with laughter. i doubt you even believe that.
Mr. IWS
08-17-2010, 06:02 PM
I'd put GG basically on par with Mir. I see your point though.
Gonzaga never beats anyone good. Look at his record. Since the Mirko win,
he's beat: Justin McCully, Josh Hendrix, Chris Tuchsherer
he's lost to: Couture, Werdum, Carwin, JDS
The motherfucker is straight up one of the most overrated fighters ever.
Mir's last three wins are Kongo, Nog, and Lesnar.
Preach Nigga!
.
There is no fat mir. Mir got his shit pushed in by a guy with 2 fights, and barely got by Dan Christionson. Those are the facts, anything else is your spin.
Dude, GTFO.
Only a retard can't see that Mir was in terrible shape in his first fights after his accident. That same retard would fail to see that Mir has gotten leaner, stronger, and has better hands today.
So if I use your logic... I can just decide when a fighter's losses count or dont. And clearly, it must be right...
Only a retard woudl failt o see that Randy peaked at the GG fight, and that he clearly slowed down after that fight and is no longer the same fighter.
Only retard would fail to see that CC peaked at the GG fight, got ruined and was never the same after that.
See, I can make totally assinine and arbitrary statements to support my position too.
I think you are right in about Randy peaking, although in that fight you could tell that GG's stand up was overrated, and it still is today.
I think you meant that CC peaked before the GG fight, because he sure as hell did not peak at the fight.
So if I use your logic... I can just decide when a fighter's losses count or dont. And clearly, it must be right...
Don't get emotional when capping.
You know as well as I do that fighters change over time--whether good or bad--and obviously more recent fights are a lot more important than some shit in 2006. Also, it's absolutely important to understand the personal circumstances surrounding a fight. If you're going to buy into the "bruised ribs" excuse for Silva, then why not buy into the fact that Mir was in terrible shape immediately following his accident?
Bottom line is that Mir's resume--not only as a whole, but also in terms of recent performance--is vastly superior to Gonzaga's.
BillyPilgrim
08-17-2010, 06:06 PM
You are simply discrediting all of his wins and magifying his losses, even ones that happened when he looked like James Toney. Randy has not given someone the GG treatment since...well, he fought GG.
Every recent win Mir has you just simply discredit, even going so far as to say that one of his wins is "over now"...yea, I guess you are right, that past win is indeed over. and Kongo of course sucks. Never mind the fact that GG has not even beat anyone good enough to make it to a fight with the same guys that Mir has beat.
And you are doing the opposite. His losses don't count because "he was a different fighter then." His wins are all awesome.
I meant that Frank fluked out against Brock in Brock's 3rd fight. If they fought again, Brock would be -300 or more.
Kongo is awesome... you are are right. That is why he has beaten so many good guys.
Please dont' try to use the UFC's promotion system as a measure of skill, it is ridiculous.
I never said Gonzaga's wins were better than Mir's. I said his losses aren't as bad. From what I see with my own eyes, I think Gonzaga has the edge in every single area of the fight. Better striking, better takedowns, better jiu jitsu.
I disagree with the fat Mir theory. I don't think could beat Vera today. I don't think he would beat Pe de Pano. They are both terrible style matchups for him... they were then, and they are now.
Preach Nigga!
I was wondering when you were gonna show up.
BillyPilgrim
08-17-2010, 06:08 PM
Mir has a stupid haircut.
That's all I have to add.
Mr. IWS
08-17-2010, 06:09 PM
I don't think could beat Vera today. I don't think he would beat Pe de Pano.
YOU FUCKIN LYIN NOW BILLY. STOP DAT SHIT!
You are simply discrediting all of his wins and magifying his losses, even ones that happened when he looked like James Toney. Randy has not given someone the GG treatment since...well, he fought GG.
Every recent win Mir has you just simply discredit, even going so far as to say that one of his wins is "over now"...yea, I guess you are right, that past win is indeed over. and Kongo of course sucks. Never mind the fact that GG has not even beat anyone good enough to make it to a fight with the same guys that Mir has beat.
And you are doing the opposite. His losses don't count because "he was a different fighter then." His wins are all awesome.
I meant that Frank fluked out against Brock in Brock's 3rd fight. If they fought again, Brock would be -300 or more.
Kongo is awesome... you are are right. That is why he has beaten so many good guys.
Please dont' try to use the UFC's promotion system as a measure of skill, it is ridiculous.
I never said Gonzaga's wins were better than Mir's. I said his losses aren't as bad. From what I see with my own eyes, I think Gonzaga has the edge in every single area of the fight. Better striking, better takedowns, better jiu jitsu.
I disagree with the fat Mir theory. I don't think could beat Vera today. I don't think he would beat Pe de Pano. They are both terrible style matchups for him... they were then, and they are now.
I have a feeling in your mind, that everyone is a bad style match up for Mir. I am sure Nog was the worst possible match up. Kongo probably was to, because Frank has shitty takedowns, and there is NO WAY he could put it to a good striker like Kongo.
I think you are the one that is using the UFC promotion system, as you are the one that is backing the fighter(GG) who has had more cans fed to him than any fighter in the UFC. And after he beats up those cans, all the GG fanatics talk about his bitchin striking.
I also strongly disagree with your statemnet that PDP would beat Mir again, Mir would have a huge edge standing in that fight if it were to happen today.
I have a feeling in your mind, that everyone is a bad style match up for Mir.
Scientist/BP is an avowed Mir hater. He's said before that any time Mir wins is seems like Mir is "fluking out" to him. I guess I have fighters who I feel that way about too, so I don't hold it against him, but you have to understand that that bias is there when you have discussions where Mir is involved.
Mr. IWS
08-17-2010, 06:20 PM
I think SPX has a very valid point. Mir has proven he CAN beat good fighters, while GG has not proven that.
.
/discussion
I dont care who they both lost too, GG has flat out failed against anyone that resembles a good fighter.
dudes can say what they want about Mir, that he is lucky at the time he fought guys, what about the guys that were lucky to fight him when he was fucked up from the accident? That dont count?
He ripped Sylvias arm off, when that guy was undefeated KO'ing everyone
He beat the shit out of Nog when everyone thought Nog was better at everything than Mir
He beat Lesnar. I dont give a shit how you say the guy wilts under pressure, he was getting the shit beat out of him, and still had enough to [insert generic bjj blackbelt vs whitebelt comment]
If they fought today, he would fuckin wreck Pano, Christianson, and Vera. The dude is a top 10 HW, those other guys aint even ranked.
His Lesnar win was kinda fluky.
I think SPX has a very valid point. Mir has proven he CAN beat good fighters, while GG has not proven that.
.
/discussion
I dont care who they both lost too, GG has flat out failed against anyone that resembles a good fighter.
dudes can say what they want about Mir, that he is lucky at the time he fought guys, what about the guys that were lucky to fight him when he was fucked up from the accident? That dont count?
He ripped Sylvias arm off, when that guy was undefeated KO'ing everyone
He beat the shit out of Nog when everyone thought Nog was better at everything than Mir
He beat Lesnar. I dont give a shit how you say the guy wilts under pressure, he was getting the shit beat out of him, and still had enough to [insert generic bjj blackbelt vs whitebelt comment]
If they fought today, he would fuckin wreck Pano, Christianson, and Vera. The dude is a top 10 HW, those other guys aint even ranked.
There it is.
edman5555
08-17-2010, 07:43 PM
I think SPX has a very valid point. Mir has proven he CAN beat good fighters, while GG has not proven that.
.
/discussion
I dont care who they both lost too, GG has flat out failed against anyone that resembles a good fighter.
dudes can say what they want about Mir, that he is lucky at the time he fought guys, what about the guys that were lucky to fight him when he was fucked up from the accident? That dont count?
He ripped Sylvias arm off, when that guy was undefeated KO'ing everyone
He beat the shit out of Nog when everyone thought Nog was better at everything than Mir
He beat Lesnar. I dont give a shit how you say the guy wilts under pressure, he was getting the shit beat out of him, and still had enough to [insert generic bjj blackbelt vs whitebelt comment]
If they fought today, he would fuckin wreck Pano, Christianson, and Vera. The dude is a top 10 HW, those other guys aint even ranked.
There it is.
His win against Sylvia is good. His win against nog is ok, Nog isn't really that great anymore. I don't think he will beat many people at this point. Also that was Brocks first fight in the UFC, his only other fight was against a can(min soo kim). Submitting a top control guy with no BJJ exp from the bottom is not really a true showing of skill.
Mir is good but his takedowns are fairly weak. He might be able to get cro cop down but it wont be with great frequency. The standup I would think should go to cro cop but who knows at this point.
I'm sure cro cop will be the dog. Whether or not its worth betting on depends on the line because Cro cop definetly has a chance though I don't like this talk from him about not having enough time. Only 5 weeks? He must have been sitting around eating donuts if that is not enough time to get in shape.
He fought recently though so he should be in decent shape with his striking game fine tuned a bit.
This one is a hard call. Honestly, I think its fairly close to 50/50. I can see either guy winning.
edman5555
08-17-2010, 07:45 PM
Cro cop by Decision prop bet on 5dimes will probably be worth while.
Mir looked exactly the same in the Vera fight as he did in the Hardonk fight, you know, the fight where he was supposedly "back". The difference is one fight he won, the other he got his shit ruined.
Mir looked exactly the same in the Vera fight as he did in the Hardonk fight, you know, the fight where he was supposedly "back". The difference is one fight he won, the other he got his shit ruined.
Personally, I think Mir came "back" in the Lesnar fight.
Mir looked exactly the same in the Vera fight as he did in the Hardonk fight, you know, the fight where he was supposedly "back". The difference is one fight he won, the other he got his shit ruined.
Personally, I think Mir came "back" in the Lesnar fight.
Another fight in which he looked exactly the same.
Another fight in which he looked exactly the same.
Are you saying physically or in terms of ability?
And do you think Mir has not shown better striking in the last couple of years than before?
edman5555
08-17-2010, 08:48 PM
Mir did beat Cheick Kongo by dropping him with a punch and then submitting him. CC wasn't able to beat Kongo, however that was his first fight back after than horrible knee injury so that could have affected him.
This is a tough one. Toss up
Personally, I think Mir came "back" in the Lesnar fight.
Mir was about 5 seconds from being stopped until the big dumb animal Lesnar hit him in the back of the head
::lolzorz:: came back
Mir was about 5 seconds from being stopped until the big dumb animal Lesnar hit him in the back of the head
::lolzorz:: came back
Let me try to explain to your trogladyte ass. . .
Even if Mir had lost that fight, he was still "back." Bottom line is that Mir has been IN SHAPE and ready to go for a while now. And is now more well-rounded that he's ever been, with not only grappling skills but also striking.
wtf is that shit under my name? get it off
wtf is that shit under my name? get it off
It's news to me, too. Apparently you're now a "contributor."
Let me try to explain to your trogladyte ass. . .
Even if Mir had lost that fight, he was still "back." Bottom line is that Mir has been IN SHAPE and ready to go for a while now. And is now more well-rounded that he's ever been, with not only grappling skills but also striking.
lol you take everything to seriously
So if he's in super Mir shape whens he going to beat a top 10 fighter again?
wtf is that shit under my name? get it off
It's news to me, too. Apparently you're now a "contributor."
maybe it's a 3500 posts thing
lol you take everything to seriously
What?
So if he's in super Mir shape whens he going to beat a top 10 fighter again?
The argument isn't about him beating a top 10 fighter; it's about him being better than Gonzaga.
wtf is that shit under my name? get it off
::lmao:: I dont know what that is ,never seen it before
ZY is a contributor now ::dance:: ::dance:: ::dance::
maybe it's a 3500 posts thing
Congratulations.
The argument isn't about him beating a top 10 fighter; it's about him being better than Gonzaga.
Gonzaga =overrated
Mir =Overrated
settled ::handshake::
Gonzaga =overrated
Yes.
Mir =Overrated
I think most people know where Mir stands. He DOES have some good wins. You can't argue against that. But no one thinks he's going to be champ, either.
maybe it's a 3500 posts thing
Maybe it is .Like I said I never seen it before .Weird too because I had like 6000 posts before I became a mod. Maybe its something new
The argument isn't about him beating a top 10 fighter; it's about him being better than Gonzaga.
Gonzaga =overrated
Mir =Overrated
settled ::handshake::
I'm going to settle this once and for all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TMxX9n6 ... youtu.be&a (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TMxX9n6zJk&feature=youtu.be&a)
The car don't have key
Napao > Mir
I think Mir-Gonzaga would be a good fight but thats not whos fighting on this card .
CC-Mir is
MMA_scientist
08-17-2010, 09:15 PM
I do hate Mir... but it doesn't cloud my judgment of him. All his wins seem fluky because they are just too dominant. Is Mir really a better striker than Kongo? If so, since when? His win over Lesnar was flukey to some... but not as much to me. He caught Lesnar in a sub which was sort of expected, and he was close on a couple arm bars before that. But in his wins, he just dominates. In his losses, he gets killed violently. He has never been in a close fight that I can recall.
I don't know, I just think GG is better. Mir has done a lot... but I just don't think he is a great fighter. I still think Nog would rule him on the ground.
poopoo333
08-17-2010, 09:45 PM
I think Gonzaga would beat Mir as well. So many people can beat so many people...It's all about the style matchups.
edman5555
08-17-2010, 09:57 PM
I do hate Mir... but it doesn't cloud my judgment of him. All his wins seem fluky because they are just too dominant. Is Mir really a better striker than Kongo? If so, since when? His win over Lesnar was flukey to some... but not as much to me. He caught Lesnar in a sub which was sort of expected, and he was close on a couple arm bars before that. But in his wins, he just dominates. In his losses, he gets killed violently. He has never been in a close fight that I can recall.
I don't know, I just think GG is better. Mir has done a lot... but I just don't think he is a great fighter. I still think Nog would rule him on the ground.
Mir has beaten guys with no ground skill on the ground and guys with bad standup with his striking. His ground is pretty good and his striking is pretty good. -The only win he has that does not fit into this realm is Cheick Kongo because he dropped him with a punch and I consider Cheick to be very good but I feel like that is sorta flukish..like Cheick really is a much better striker than him.
Cro cop has mediocre ground game but solid take down D.
His striking is also above average. It used to be very good, I still think it MAY be better than Mirs.
Aaron Riley out, Thiago Tavares in against Pat Audinwood at UFC 119
Aaron Riley out, Thiago Tavares in against Pat Audinwood at UFC 119
How awesomely awesome.
poopoo333
08-18-2010, 03:11 PM
1u on Cro Cop @+195
MMA_scientist
08-18-2010, 03:43 PM
Mir opened at -280... already down to -210. CroCop is down to +160
The boat. I missed it.
poopoo333
08-18-2010, 03:51 PM
Mir opened at -280... already down to -210. CroCop is down to +160
The boat. I missed it.
You need twitter alerts from BFO to your phone.
MMA_scientist
08-18-2010, 04:01 PM
Mir opened at -280... already down to -210. CroCop is down to +160
The boat. I missed it.
You need twitter alerts from BFO to your phone.
I honestly don't even know WTF Twitter is. I think it is basically a text message for anyone that wants to see it... Is that right?
[quote="MMA_scientist":f2hl4yv2]Mir opened at -280... already down to -210. CroCop is down to +160
The boat. I missed it.
You need twitter alerts from BFO to your phone.
I honestly don't even know WTF Twitter is. I think it is basically a text message for anyone that wants to see it... Is that right?[/quote:f2hl4yv2]
For someone who doesn't know what it is, that's a surprisingly apt description. It's not just applicable to phones. You can get an extension in your browser that lets you know when there's a new tweet. Depending on who you follow, it's a very adept tool to keep updated with just about anything.
Thats about what I thought Mir would open at . The line is what I expected it to be now I'm going to have to research the fight ,sigh.....
I was kind of hoping I'd see -150/+130 so I could just say pass
Thats about what I thought Mir would open at . The line is what I expected it to be now I'm going to have to research the fight ,sigh.....
I was kind of hoping I'd see -150/+130 so I could just say pass
Ha ha.
You lazy motherfucker. . .
Ha ha.
You lazy motherfucker. . .
lol
I have been lazy lately when it comes to research fights . I've hardly bet anything lately because I've been too lazy to look at anything
lol
I have been lazy lately when it comes to research fights . I've hardly bet anything lately because I've been too lazy to look at anything
I've kind of been in the same boat. I've actually gotten a little better about it the last few events, but yeah, it's a drag to sit there and trudge through old shit.
poopoo333
08-18-2010, 06:45 PM
^^Especially when all the vids you try to watch are removed due to infringement.
^^Especially when all the vids you try to watch are removed due to infringement.
For sure. Shit takes like twice as long just because of that.
I have a lot of stuff downloaded just so I can get good quality and don't have to worry about finding the vid on the Internet. That doesn't work for a lot of the guys who have spent most of their time on the undercards, though.
WEC vids are the worst when it comes to availability.
^^^ I think I'm just burn out lately. I look at boxing and MMA so thats twice the events to look at. Lately I've just been saying " who cares I'll just watch it"
^^^ I think I'm just burn out lately. I look at boxing and MMA so thats twice the events to look at. Lately I've just been saying " who cares I'll just watch it"
Speaking of boxing, you haven't posted anything in a while.
Where's all this money we're supposed to make?
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