View Full Version : UFC 122 Germany to air for free on Spike on November 13th
Via tape delay:
Ultimate Fighting Championship fans will get two free events in one month's time.
Company officials previously announced that October's UFC 120 event in London will air via same-day delay on Spike TV, and sources close to the organization told MMAjunkie.com (http://www.mmajunkie.com) that November's UFC 122 event also is expected to air on the cable station.
Although not officially announced, UFC 122 takes place Nov. 13 at Konig Pilsener Arena in Oberhausen, Germany.
The event is expected to air via a six-hour delay on Spike TV.
http://bit.ly/cFuady
Mr. IWS
08-03-2010, 04:54 PM
Hmm, I thought the were banned there. Guess not.
Krzysztof Soszynski vs. Goran Reljic targeted for UFC 122 in Germany
http://bit.ly/cYmNS3
Why does Krysztoff hate vowels so much?
Chael Sonnen vs Vitor Belfort are being talked about as a possible headliner for an upcoming event, i.e. UFC 122
If this ends up being the case I guess they get to fight each other for the chance of fighting Silva .
So much for Belfort next or a rematch with Sonnen
poopoo333
08-17-2010, 10:59 PM
I'd rather see Chael fight Bisping (if he beats Sexyama) and Belfort fight Silva.
Yeah. Either Vitor knocks him out in the first 30 seconds or he's going to get destroyed.
poopoo333
08-18-2010, 03:38 PM
A welterweight match-up between Peter Sobotta (8-3 MMA, 0-2 UFC) and Amir Sadollah (3-2 MMA, 3-2 UFC) has been penciled in for October's UFC 122 event.
Sobotta is officially the guy they keep around to feed to losing TUF winners.
MMA_scientist
08-18-2010, 03:46 PM
Krzysztof Soszynski vs. Goran Reljic targeted for UFC 122 in Germany
http://bit.ly/cYmNS3
Is Goran going to 205 or Sosz going to 185? Sosz is already a big LHW...
poopoo333
08-18-2010, 03:50 PM
Krzysztof Soszynski vs. Goran Reljic targeted for UFC 122 in Germany
http://bit.ly/cYmNS3
Is Goran going to 205 or Sosz going to 185? Sosz is already a big LHW...
Goran is going back to 205. Sosz also said before UFC 116 that he is considering dropping to MW in like a year.
That's going to be an interesting fight. Goran's been relatively disappointing. He seems to fight close fights, but can't quite do enough to win. Having lost to both CB and Grove, I'd lean K-Sos, but this is probably a pick 'em.
[quote]Chael Sonnen (R-Or) vs Vitor Belfort are being talked about as a possible headliner for an upcoming event, i.e. UFC 122
vitorbelfort This year I am not going to fight for the title because the champion is hurt but November we will be in action for sure that is what I can[/quote:fvkc97zg]
Looks like it is going to be Sonnen-Belfort on this card .
poopoo333
08-23-2010, 02:54 PM
Vitor vs Okami
Chael vs winner of Bisping/Akiyama
That's what I hope
Chael vs winner of Bisping/Akiyama
That's what I hope
UFC 120 is Oct 16th . Thats too short of notice for the Bisping/Sexy winnner I'd think .But who knows?
Jorge Rivera and Alessio Sakara agree to meet at UFC 122 in Germany
http://bit.ly/al9V38
Jorge Rivera and Alessio Sakara agree to meet at UFC 122 in Germany
http://bit.ly/al9V38
That'll be a good fight and is a much better fight for Sakara than Harris, in my opinion.
Jason Brilz vs. Vladimir Matyushenko targeted for UFC 122 in Germany
Hot on the heels of a new four-fight deal with the UFC, Vladimir Matyushenko (24-4 MMA, 5-3 UFC) is expected to meet Jason Brilz (18-3-1 MMA, 3-2 UFC) at October's UFC 122 event.
Sources close to the event today told MMAjunkie.com (http://www.mmajunkie.com) that verbal agreements are in place and that both fighters are expected to finalize bout agreements shortly.
While not yet officially announced, UFC 122 is expected to take place Nov. 13 at Konig Pilsener Arena in Oberhausen, Germany.
No headliner has been announced for the overseas card, which – as MMAjunkie.com first reported – airs via same-day delay on Spike TV in North America.
Both Brilz and Matyushenko look to gain redemption after recent losses.
..
poopoo333
08-24-2010, 09:20 PM
That's an interesting fight. I see a boring stand up fight.
poopoo333
08-28-2010, 04:37 PM
http://www.411mania.com/MMA/news/150868 ... FC-122.htm (http://www.411mania.com/MMA/news/150868/Vitor-Belfort-vs.-Yushin-Okami-To-Headline-UFC-122.htm)
Belfort/Okami to headline UFC 122
Looks like we are going to see an Okami/Sonnen rematch for a title fight.
I thought the Sonnen/Silva rematch was already announced.
I thought the Sonnen (R-Or)/Silva rematch was already announced.
It was and Dana confirmed it on MMA Live this week
Svino
08-28-2010, 06:21 PM
I thought the Sonnen /Silva rematch was already announced.
I think what he meant to say is that we are going to see an Okami/Sonnen rematch as a title fight.
I thought the Sonnen (R-Or) /Silva rematch was already announced.
I think what he meant to say is that we are going to see an Okami/Sonnen (R-Or) rematch as a title fight.
Oh. Hah. That's possible.
poopoo333
08-28-2010, 06:27 PM
I thought the Sonnen (R-Or) /Silva rematch was already announced.
I think what he meant to say is that we are going to see an Okami/Sonnen (R-Or) rematch as a title fight.
Bingo.
^^^ Sonnen isnt going to beat Silva
Kyle Noke vs. Rob Kimmons added to UFC 122 in Germany
http://ht.ly/2yT56
poopoo333
09-03-2010, 12:21 AM
Line guesses on Okami/Belfort?
Line guesses on Okami/Belfort?
Belfort -200
Karlos Vemola drops to 205, meets Seth Petruzelli at UFC 122
http://bit.ly/a5X1Rg
Mr. IWS
09-04-2010, 11:29 AM
I cant believe they even kept Seth around.
I cant believe they even kept Seth around.
The guy is the Kimbo Killer ,how could you cut him?
Mr. IWS
09-04-2010, 11:34 AM
^^^^^^^^^Cause I have a better tank then that dairy queen nigga. ::haptime::
Uh, he owns a Smoothie King thanks!
Uh, he owns a Smoothie King thanks!
WTF is a smoothie king ::lmao::
http://www.peoriarestaurants.com/images/rest_pics/smoothie_king_counter_2.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_fZYPyxtuV4c/S7oJ9lsVNcI/AAAAAAAAAtE/SVlE1N4O0CE/s400/Smoothie+King.jpg
http://www.peoriarestaurants.com/images/rest_pics/smoothie_king_counter_2.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_fZYPyxtuV4c/S7oJ9lsVNcI/AAAAAAAAAtE/SVlE1N4O0CE/s400/Smoothie+King.jpg
.................
poopoo333
09-09-2010, 12:34 PM
Siver/Winner added to this card.
Nick Osipczak vs Duane Ludwig at UFC 122
http://bit.ly/bNAu3w
Kind of surprised to see Reljic as a dog against K-Sos. What has Reljic done? He's 1-2 in the UFC against good-but-not great competition. He beat Gouveia and wasn't even really dominating before the TKO. (And besides, where is Gouveia now?) Then he lost decisions to Dollaway and Grove.
K-Sos is at least in the same league as those guys and if anything the line should be even or K-Sos as a small favorite.
1u on K-Sos @ +120
poopoo333
09-16-2010, 08:14 AM
Kind of surprised to see Reljic as a dog against K-Sos. What has Reljic done? He's 1-2 in the UFC against good-but-not great competition. He beat Gouveia and wasn't even really dominating before the TKO. And besides, where is Gouveia now? Then he lost decisions to Dollaway and Grove.
K-Sos is at least in league with those guys and if anything the line should be even or K-Sos as a small favorite.
1u on K-Sos @ +120
I think that is a good play, I actually think the line should be the other way
What are you guys thinking on Okami/Vitor?
poopoo333
09-17-2010, 10:21 PM
What are you guys thinking on Okami/Vitor?
I'll be on Okami.
I'd like Vitor as an underdog. If the line is close, Okami.
Kind of surprised to see Reljic as a dog against K-Sos. What has Reljic done? He's 1-2 in the UFC against good-but-not great competition. He beat Gouveia and wasn't even really dominating before the TKO. (And besides, where is Gouveia now?) Then he lost decisions to Dollaway and Grove.
K-Sos is at least in the same league as those guys and if anything the line should be even or K-Sos as a small favorite.
1u on K-Sos @ +120
It's probably because Krystof just lost to Stephan fucking Bonnar.
It's probably because Krystof just lost to Stephan fucking Bonnar.
Stephan's fine. He's not great, but he's not bad, either. I was more impressed with Stephan in that fight than I was disappointed in Sos.
Kind of surprised to see Reljic as a dog against K-Sos. What has Reljic done? He's 1-2 in the UFC against good-but-not great competition. He beat Gouveia and wasn't even really dominating before the TKO. (And besides, where is Gouveia now?) Then he lost decisions to Dollaway and Grove.
K-Sos is at least in the same league as those guys and if anything the line should be even or K-Sos as a small favorite.
1u on K-Sos @ +120
It's probably because Krystof just lost to Stephan fucking Bonnar.
Who lost to Mark fucking Coleman.
What are you guys thinking on Okami/Vitor?
I'll be on Okami.
You dont even know the line yet . Besides Belfort is going to kill him
I'd like Vitor as an underdog. If the line is close, Okami.
Vitor as a dog ? Thats funny
I'd like Vitor as an underdog. If the line is close, Okami.
Vitor as a dog ? Thats funny
Why?
Okami is exactly the kind of fighter that makes Vitor look silly.
If Vitor doesn't blast him out early it's probably going to get ugly.
Well if Belfort's a dog that would be great for me but I dont see it
Well I think the line's going to be pretty close anyways.
Well I think the line's going to be pretty close anyways.
Really? I was expecting to see -175 to -200 on Belfort . Hopefully I'm way off
Really? I was expecting to see -175 to -200 on Belfort . Hopefully I'm way off
If that's the case, I'll definitely be on Okami.
Really? I was expecting to see -175 to -200 on Belfort . Hopefully I'm way off
If that's the case, I'll definitely be on Okami.
Yeah. I think if either guy is a sizable underdog that's the right play.
Yeah. I think if either guy is a sizable underdog that's the right play.
Agreed.
Well I'm sure not betting Belfort at -175 to -200 ,it was just my guess on the odds
Who lost to Mark fucking Coleman.
And Goran Reljic has done . . . what?
poopoo333
09-18-2010, 05:24 PM
Who lost to Mark fucking Coleman.
And Goran Reljic has done . . . what?
He beat up Wilson Gouveia who gasses all the time!!!!!!!
oh yeah, and he lost to C.B. Dollaway and Kendall Grove.
Who lost to Mark fucking Coleman.
And Goran Reljic has done . . . what?
He beat up Wilson Gouveia who gasses all the time!!!!!!!
oh yeah, and he lost to C.B. Dollaway and Kendall Grove.
To be fair, Goran had been gone almost 2 years from training/fighting before he fought CB. Kendall presented the same problems for Goran as he would anyone who isn't above average in the striking department with his length.
To be fair, Goran had been gone almost 2 years from training/fighting before he fought CB. Kendall presented the same problems for Goran as he would anyone who isn't above average in the striking department with his length.
I'm not seeing these as arguments that he should be a favorite over Krzystof. If you want to argue that the line should be close, fine. I mean, he may very well win. But if you look at their accomplishments over their last few fights then I think Sos has done more.
Gouveia kind of sucks. He was cut for a reason. Then he went and got his ass kicked in MFC. As for the Grove and CB fights, I didn't see them and I understand that they were both fairly close (Sherdog even scored the Grove fight for Reljic), but the thing is that I think Sos would have a very good shot and kicking either of their asses, too.
I think this is going to be a mostly striking war with both guys getting tagged a lot, and in the end I think Sos probably hits harder. So that's the reasoning for my bet.
I wasn't presenting an argument as to why Goran should be favored. I'm just saying take his losses to CB and Grove with a grain of salt because they are skewed by the circumstances. I do feel they should be close in the lines. Maybe -120/+105 ish.
http://www.bestfightodds.com/fights/3084.png
Its what I figured
Okami has got to be the play here. That's just Bookmakers weak opening line though. I'd expect it to move.
Wow! I love Okami at that price.
poopoo333
09-21-2010, 12:18 AM
I think Okami is definitely the play. I personally think the line should be like -130/-110 in favor of Okami
Already moved to +150 for Okami.
Dropped 1.3u to win 1u on Okami. But with that said, I really do expect Vitor to fuck him up. Okami likes to test his striking now and Vitor's the wrong guy to test against.
Vitor Belfort out of UFC 122; Marquardt steps in to face Okami
http://ht.ly/2HSRN
poopoo333
09-21-2010, 11:24 PM
Vitor Belfort out of UFC 122; Marquardt steps in to face Okami
http://ht.ly/2HSRN
Whenever Vitor does come back, he is going to get smashed if he gets any top 5 competition. He hasn't made the cut to 185 since Affliction, and it will be like a 18 month lay off altogether with injuries.
He probably pulled out of the fight being scared of testing positive like Chael did.
Damn. And right after we got a line, too.
What do you guys think about this one?
poopoo333
09-22-2010, 12:06 AM
Vitor probably isn't injured actually. He is probably slated to fight Silva early 2011 now lol
He probably pulled out of the fight being scared of testing positive like Chael did.
I doubt Vitor gets caught again. I'm sure he's learned to cycle better. It's interesting that if he fights Silva he wouldn't be the first of Anderson's UFC opponents to have been popped for steroids....or second, or third.
poopoo333
09-22-2010, 12:20 AM
He probably pulled out of the fight being scared of testing positive like Chael did.
I doubt Vitor gets caught again. I'm sure he's learned to cycle better. It's interesting that if he fights Silva he wouldn't be the first of Anderson's UFC opponents to have been popped for steroids....or second, or third.
5th (well Irvin wasn't steroids)
Mr. IWS
09-22-2010, 10:19 AM
Vitor probably isn't injured actually. He is probably slated to fight Silva early 2011 now lol
+1
Yeah I don't think anyone believes he's actually injured.
Info is already coming out that he's not.
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/146683/m8fa0y.jpg
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/9/22/17 ... 00-healthy (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/9/22/1703994/vitor-belfort-is-100-healthy)
Interesting. Maybe we'll get an announcement soon that he'll be fighting Anderson.
What's everyone think of Okami/Marquardt? Line predictions?
I love how the UFC so effortlessly makes moves and sets shit up. They've been trying to set up the Vitor/Silva fight for what seems like years now. Sonnen busted is a setback, but it finally sets the stage for Vitor to fight Silva.
If Silva wins, the timeline is right for Chael to come right back and get his immediate rematch anyways. Let's be honest, no one is ever punished for steroids by the UFC. Tim Sylvia? Punished by an immediate title shot against Frank Peace. Sean Sherk? Punished with an immediate title shot and biggest fight of his career against BJ Penn.
At worst they can just have Chael beat up the Marquardt/Okami winner. Everyone will have forgotten about the positive test by then anyways. Win-win.
http://janeaustensworld.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/anne-frank-real.jpg
+
http://student.css.edu/cjl/large_peace_symbol.gif
Now Dana is telling everyone that Vitor isn't injured, and Nate isn't taking his place. Probably misinformation. I don't know why MMAWeekly would've confirmed Nate vs Okami if it wasn't true. Who knows.
http://twitter.com/danawhite
Junkie just posted an article saying that Vitor/Sonnen is now targeted for early 2011.
Junkie just posted an article saying that Vitor/Sonnen (R-Or) is now targeted for early 2011.
good luck with that Sonnen is going to be suspened at least till March if not longer
Now Dana is telling everyone that Vitor isn't injured, and Nate isn't taking his place. Probably misinformation. I don't know why MMAWeekly would've confirmed Nate vs Okami if it wasn't true. Who knows.
http://twitter.com/danawhite
It say Nate-Okami are fighting
Vitor is not injured. He is going to fight anderson for the title and the winner of marquart and okami are next.
To me its saying Vitor is taking the place of Sonnen in Jan.
Interesting. Maybe we'll get an announcement soon that he'll be fighting Anderson.
What's everyone think of Okami/Marquardt? Line predictions?
Nate -140
good luck with that Sonnen (R-Or) is going to be suspened at least till March if not longer
Shit, I meant Vitor/Silva.
Nate -140
I'd probably be on Nate at that price.
Now Dana is telling everyone that Vitor isn't injured, and Nate isn't taking his place. Probably misinformation. I don't know why MMAWeekly would've confirmed Nate vs Okami if it wasn't true. Who knows.
http://twitter.com/danawhite
It say Nate-Okami are fighting
Vitor is not injured. He is going to fight anderson for the title and the winner of marquart and okami are next.
To me its saying Vitor is taking the place of Sonnen (R-Or) in Jan.
Yeah that wasn't there earlier. I was basing my thoughts on Dana's comment
@blairanton not true
which was in reply to
@danawhite Can you comment on the rumors of Nate taking his place in his scheduled fight?
Yeah that wasn't there earlier. I was basing my thoughts on Dana's comment
[quote]@blairanton not true
which was in reply to
@danawhite Can you comment on the rumors of Nate taking his place in his scheduled fight?[/quote:35nwuyji]
Oh ,I just clicked it a little bit ago and thats the first thing I saw
poopoo333
09-22-2010, 04:48 PM
good luck with that Sonnen (R-Or) (R-Or) is going to be suspened at least till March if not longer
Shit, I meant Vitor/Silva.
Silva was like -360 when they were supposed to fight @ UFC 112. With a longer lay off and stuff, the line might be better on Vitor this time around.
Silva was like -360 when they were supposed to fight @ UFC 112. With a longer lay off and stuff, the line might be better on Vitor this time around.
If so, I'll be on Vitor.
Silva was like -360 when they were supposed to fight @ UFC 112. With a longer lay off and stuff, the line might be better on Vitor this time around.
That was when Silva was thought to be invincible which he's not since the Sonnen fight .I think the line will be lower this time around or possibly the same
Is 'old Vitor' going to show up?
Alexandre Ferreira in for Injured Brilz, to Face Matyushenko at UFC 122
http://bit.ly/bAVjxJ
edman5555
10-16-2010, 09:07 PM
These are the fights announced for ufc 122
Middleweight bout: Nate Marquardt vs. Yushin Okami
Middleweight bout: Jorge Rivera vs. Alessio Sakara
Lightweight bout: Dennis Siver vs. Andre Winner
Welterweight bout: Amir Sadollah vs. Peter Sobotta
Light Heavyweight bout: Krzysztof Soszynski vs. Goran Reljic
Welterweight bout: Duane Ludwig vs. Nick Osipczak
Middleweight bout: Kyle Noke vs. Rob Kimmons
Light Heavyweight bout: Seth Petruzelli vs. Karlos Vemola
Welterweight bout: Kris McCray vs. Carlos Eduardo Rocha
Light Heavyweight bout: Vladimir Matyushenko vs. Alexandre Ferreira
Welterweight bout: Pascal Krauss vs. Mark Scanlon
edman5555
10-16-2010, 09:07 PM
Andre Winner by Decision might be a good bet.
edman5555
10-24-2010, 01:27 AM
I second that.
poopoo333
10-24-2010, 01:29 AM
I second that.
You are agreeing with your post?
I second that.
You are agreeing with your post?
::lmao:: he's agreeing with himself, I love it
poopoo333
10-24-2010, 01:56 AM
Why is there only one fight out with odds? I like K Sos in this fight but I want to watch some video and stuff
Not sure who this guy is but saw it in a retweet. Funniest shit ever if true.
Bryan Alvarez
Brock and Undertaker had a staredown and exchanged words after the fight. Not making this up, Ariel Helwani was doing the interview
Goddamnit I keep posting in the wrong fucking thread tonight
edman5555
10-24-2010, 12:15 PM
Actually I may disagree with myself. Siver has good kicks.
poopoo333
10-26-2010, 11:30 PM
Hmm, I like Nick Osipczak over Ludwig. I also think Sakara will probably beat Rivera.
If nothing else, Sakara's been looking focused lately, like he's ready to really kick some ass.
Nate Marquardt -185
Yushin Okami +155
I'd bet Nate, but am a little concerned that Okami will be able to do what Sonnen did.
MMA_scientist
10-27-2010, 11:56 AM
I think the line is about right. My issue is that even if Nate is able to force a standup fight, I don't know how big his edge is. I think a decision prop is the best play on that fight. The submission is out the window, Okami won't stop nate with GNP... so you are basically betting Nate can't (T)KO Okami. I think I might do a decision prop if the odds are decent (-170 or so)
also, where did you get that line?
also, where did you get that line?
I saw it at an overseas book . It probably wont be the exact line that comes out but it will give us a close indication
The line is a little higher than I figured it would be
edman5555
10-27-2010, 03:45 PM
I think this one is too hard to call. I wouldn't bet a Decision prop though, Nates hands have been extremely powerful lately. His last 4 wins are all ko/tko.
MMA_scientist
10-27-2010, 04:04 PM
Yeah, but Okami has only been stopped one time (in 2003) in 30 fights. And that was by GNP, I doubt nate is going to be taking Yushin down (he very well could knock him down though). Nate is tough to finish too... I don't think Yushin has the tools to finish Nate. Nate by stoppage is more likely for sure.
I put Yushin between 45-50% to win (say 45%). So of Nate's 55% chance to win, even if he has a 50% chance to finish, this correlates to an overall possibility of stoppage at 27% (or 73% that it goes to a decision) in my mind. So the line would be -270. But when I am value betting, I need a lot of value- so I set the line at -170 (63%).
Just how I see it. Obviously, your line may differ. You might think Nate is a lot more than 55% to win. You might think his ability to finish is higher. You might think Yushin can finish Nate (I personally do not think Yushin has any way to finish, I maybe give him a 5% chance).
I put Yushin between 45-50% to win (say 45%).
I think that whichever guy wins is the guy who will win the vast majority of the time.
IF Nate can deal with Okami's wrestling, then he wins 70% to 80% of the time. Because that's about the only way Okami has to win. And if Nate can handle it, then he can do it over and over and over.
But if not, and Okami can control him for a decision, then again, he'll be able to do it over and over.
I'm leaning toward Nate wins 70%+. But I do not want to get Marquardt'd again.
MMA_scientist
10-27-2010, 04:17 PM
^ I understand that... that is basically why I put it at 50%. I don't know if Nate can stop the takedown. So it is a coin flip to me. BUt he has more outs, so I favor him a little.
I also think that Yushin can win by clinching and using him reach, like he did with Swick and Franklin. I think Nate's striking is somewhat overrated, especially when he has to worry about the takedown. In fights where he was able to stop the takedown, his striking was not very effective (Dean Lister, Thales Leites). His crazy good finishes were against non-wrestlers (with the exception of Maia). Also, Palhares was able to take him down wasn't he? That does not bode well, Okami's takedowns are at least on par with Palhares, IMO.
I think Okami can strike with Nate. Let's not pretend he didn't get dropped by Thales Leites.
MMA_scientist
10-27-2010, 04:38 PM
I think Okami can strike with Nate. Let's not pretend he didn't get dropped by Thales Leites.
I think it will be competitive standing as well. Maybe, Okami is the play. I am going to have to wait on the line... I might end up on Okami before it is all said and done.
Leites threw a good punch and it hit Nate. You know as well as I do that it's a fallacious argument to rate Nate's striking because he got hit one time by one guy 2 1/2 years ago.
MMA_scientist
10-27-2010, 04:41 PM
Leites through a good punch and it hit Nate. You know as well as I do that it's a fallacious argument to rate Nate's striking because he got hit one time by one guy 2 1/2 years ago.
yeah bu most of the hype around Nate's striking is based on 1 video game combo he threw on Kampman. He 1-punched Maia too I guess. But outide of that, his striking has never looked dominant to me... just sort of average... I always thought of him as a grappler until the Kampman fight.
I thought the video game combo was against Gouveia. . .
MMA_scientist
10-27-2010, 04:43 PM
Maybe he had two of them... I forgot about the Gouveia fight. I think you are right.
EDIT: looked it up, yeah it was Gouveia. I guess he had 2 impressive striking displays because he beat Kampmann up too.
edman5555
10-27-2010, 05:00 PM
Yeah he one punched Maia, I know how you feel about that one too. It's either amazing or just a fortunate shot. Palhares was kind of distracted now that I think about it, he was trying to talk to the ref. He knocked out Gouv but he hasn't been doing well. Nates striking has improved a lot though, it has to have. He has been knocking people out left and right.
I see what your talking about though with Yushin, I don't see him finishing this fight. I could see Nate catching Yushin with a punch though or maybe a guillotine during a shot. He almost subbed Chael with a guillotine..though Chael gets subbed left right and center.
If nate catches Yushin, Yushin has the takedown out though. I dont know here. Maybe Yushin Okami via decision is the bet to make.
I think I will be doing a lot more prop bets now, I might as well. I can't see Yushin winning this fight any other way, so I might as well get the better odds.
I think one thing worth considering is that Nate SHOULD be much more worried of the takedown than Okami. This might effect the way he fights...I doubt he goes for broke with his stand up. and if this turns into a straight up boxing match, i would actually give Okami the edge there.
edman5555
10-27-2010, 05:03 PM
Wow, maybe you guys have convinced me to bet Okami via decision.
edman5555
10-27-2010, 05:04 PM
The fact that he knocked out lucio linhares recently might go a bit towards increasing the bookies belief that it will go to decision.
I could be wrong, but I really do believe Okami actually might have the better stand up. not power, but technically he seems the better striker. this could be a case where the stand up is close, but Okami gets a couple of takedowns to get a close decision.
i will probably not even bet this event at all though. i doubt I see anything I really like, unless the books really screw up on something.
edman5555
10-27-2010, 05:12 PM
Yeah I don't see much either.
MMA_scientist
10-27-2010, 05:14 PM
I am not betting anything on this card, except maybe the decision prop here.
Leites threw a good punch and it hit Nate. You know as well as I do that it's a fallacious argument to rate Nate's striking because he got hit one time by one guy 2 1/2 years ago.
That's not my whole argument. I added that for emphasis. Notice the punctuation between the two sentences.
That's not my whole argument.
Well where's the rest of it?
Yeah I don't see much either.
yea, just nothing jumps out at me as..Oh shit, this guy has a big edge over this guy, and the line may be screwed up.
I've already got K-Sos over Reljic and I'd take Siver over Winner at the right price.
I've already got K-Sos over Reljic and I'd take Siver over Winner at the right price.
I think your K-Sos bet is legit. I just will not bet him myself. And I would bet Siver also, but I just do not see the line being out of whack on that one. Both guys have fought enough in the UFC for the linesmakers to get it right. i guess we can hope. But I still think that fight is close.
I think your K-Sos bet is legit. I just will not bet him myself. And I would bet Siver also, but I just do not see the line being out of whack on that one. Both guys have fought enough in the UFC for the linesmakers to get it right. i guess we can hope. But I still think that fight is close.
I think both fights are close. Kind of hard to call either for sure.
What do you think the line's going to be on the Siver/Winner fight?
Also, I'm not sure if I've ever seen Peter Sabotta fight, but just looking at his record it looks like this fight was designed to get Amir a win.
I think your K-Sos bet is legit. I just will not bet him myself. And I would bet Siver also, but I just do not see the line being out of whack on that one. Both guys have fought enough in the UFC for the linesmakers to get it right. i guess we can hope. But I still think that fight is close.
I think both fights are close. Kind of hard to call either for sure.
What do you think the line's going to be on the Siver/Winner fight?
I'd say close to even, they might install Winner as the slight fave.
Also, I'm not sure if I've ever seen Peter Sabotta fight, but just looking at his record it looks like this fight was designed to get Amir a win.
Amir will be -300.
I'd say close to even, they might install Winner as the slight fave.
That's my hope. I'd probably take Siver as any sort of an underdog.
Amir will be -300.
Well, that's only 70%. Does Amir win this one 3 out of 4?
Yea, but i will not bet him(Amir) @ anything over -220, But he really should beat him rather easily.. Siver could be a small bet if he is a dog, maybe +120 or so.
edman5555
10-27-2010, 06:51 PM
According to wiki:
Winner is 5'11
Siver is 5'7''
Winner will be one of the biggest guys he has fought in the ufc. Winner also has real crisp hands. I dont think Winner has as much power as Siver. I don't know who wins this.
That's true. I guess there is a size difference. I'll have to go back and do some research.
edman5555
10-27-2010, 07:00 PM
Both winner and Siver fought Ross Pearson so I read play by plays for both fights. Pearson-Winner seemed uneventful, Pearson kept trying to take him down. Pearson- Siver was more of a standup fight in the beginning but Pearson was winning and Siver eventually started going for takedowns.
Could this mean that Pearson viewed Winners standup as superior to Sivers? He tried to takedown Winner and stand with Siver. Tough call, I would LIKE to think that but I haven't really watched much of their fights. I know Winner has great takedown D so I dont think Siver will be taking him down. I know he is taller so I am guessing he has better reach. I also know Winner doesn't seem to KO a lot of people. Possible Winner via Decision, I still have to watch some fights though.
SBJJ, want to take a look at this too? Siver is coming off a win of Spencer Fischer and Winner is coming off a loss from Nik Lentz(he was hugged to a decision). The line on Winner will probably be favorable.
edman5555
10-27-2010, 07:15 PM
Hmm Siver used to be a kickboxer, German Champ. I have no idea how good that is.
edman5555
10-27-2010, 07:17 PM
Siver is ranked 6th in kickboxing in Europe I guess. This is what he says.
Hmm Siver used to be a kickboxer, German Champ. I have no idea how good that is.
That means that no one in Germany can kick his ass.
That's not my whole argument.
Well where's the rest of it?
It's right there.
I think Okami can stand with Nate.
It's right there.
I think Okami can stand with Nate.
I don't know, man. Okami looked great against Linhares, but only pretty good against Munoz.
Let me ask you this: If this were under special "striking only" rules and the fight would for sure go down without any grappling, would you still be hesitant to take Nate?
edman5555
10-27-2010, 08:50 PM
I just watched Winner-Pearson. It was really really close.
edman5555
10-27-2010, 08:54 PM
Pearson won the open standup exchanges but Winner was keeping him pressed up the cage and landing more shots in the clinch. Winner probably had him up against the cage wall for about 50 percent of the fight.
edman5555
10-27-2010, 09:45 PM
Just watched Siver Vs spencer fischer. I would honestly call that close enough to call a draw.
edman5555
10-27-2010, 09:46 PM
I can't find Pearson vs Siver, anyone know where to get it?
I thought Siver/Fisher was close, but not a draw. I'd say Siver was one step ahead.
edman5555
10-27-2010, 10:00 PM
a small step though. I'm still not sure who will win, i havent seen siver pearson yet.
a small step though. I'm still not sure who will win, i havent seen siver pearson yet.
Pearson was about two steps ahead of Siver. It wasn't a blowout by any means, but it was a clear victory.
edman5555
10-27-2010, 10:13 PM
First round was Fischer, second round Siver, third round pretty close.
edman5555
10-27-2010, 10:16 PM
MMAjunkie has it 29-28 Siver, MMAweekly has it a draw, sherdog has it 29-28 siver but gives the last round to Fischer, the others give the first round to Fischer. It was pretty close.
edman5555
10-27-2010, 10:21 PM
Ah forget this one. Siver is German, this will be in front of his crowd.
edman5555
10-27-2010, 10:21 PM
Unless the judges are "imported"
poopoo333
10-28-2010, 12:23 AM
http://www.bestfightodds.com/fights/3184.png (http://www.bestfightodds.com)
edman5555
10-31-2010, 10:57 AM
What's everyone opinion on Okami/Marquardt? I'm unsure.
What's everyone opinion on Okami/Marquardt? I'm unsure.
I think the line is too high .I had it capped at -140
edman5555
10-31-2010, 02:08 PM
I think Okami has a decent shot. His hands are pretty good. His wrestling is good enough to stop the td from Nate and he might be able to land some tkdowns on him..I am not sure how easily though. I just don't know how good the striking is between the two of them. Nates knockout of Kampmann seems like it must be pretty good. People talk up Kampmanns striking quite a bit. Though Nate was the much larger guy in that fight. He knocked out Gouviea but he isn't really that great. Everyone has been kicking his ass. Nate seems to get caught with punches in a lot of his fights too and he throws a lot of kicks. Kick=takedown sometiems. Unless your real slick with them.
Yushin wasn't able to take down Rich Franklin easily, he got him down in the third round and won that round, lost the fight 29-28..I don't really know how Franklin compares to Nate though.
This is a tough one to call, I don't think Yushin is unlikely to win this though..
Havis Jr
10-31-2010, 02:39 PM
Goes the distance prop for nate/okami may be the play.
Both are fighting for a title, both are seasoned vets. The only one who could get knocked out is Okami, and Nate isn't going to want to load up on his shots too much out of fear of a takedown. Only other line I would consider would be marquardt by dec.
edman5555
10-31-2010, 02:57 PM
Well Okami might be able to take down Mardquardt. I don't know. Does anyone know where Okami is training?
Nate's knockout of Kampmann was the kind of thing rape victims talk about in group.
edman5555
10-31-2010, 07:53 PM
I am thinking about pulling the trigger on Okami via decision once the prop comes out. Also looking at Kyle Noke over Rob Kimmons. I don't know much about him but he did beat George Sotiropolous once and he fought Hector Lombard to a draw. Rob Kimmons is mostly a submission guy from what I can tell.
MMA_scientist
11-01-2010, 09:17 AM
^ I am on that decision prop @ -200 or better.
Don't know if you saw this little tidbut from Nate:
"He’s a very hard guy to attack, so unless I can get him to come out of his shell and kind of attack me more, it could be a chess match until I find that opening and who knows how long that will take because this is for a title shot and I’m not going to go in there and try to put on the most exciting fight and lose the fight,” said Marquardt.
I think Noke will beat Kimmons as well. Noke probably should have won TUF, but some guys don't deal well with having to fight so often and the dynamic of the show. I think might be one of the rare underrated TUF grads.
edman5555
11-01-2010, 12:04 PM
The only thing that worried me is the fact that Noke was taken down repeatidly by Kris Mccray. I think his lack of wrestling cost him the decision. I think Kimmons is all about getting the takedown but I really haven't seen a lot of footage on Noke. I watched a bit on Kimmons, because I was placing a bet on his fight a while back.
The only reason this one jumped out at me was because Noke has quality fights against Sot and Lombard and Kimmons is not very good. However Kimmons has 5 fights in the ufc and is 3-2. He might come out as the favorite.
Nice Denis Siver HL
[youtube:1o4pw5i3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpzORCkIGZM[/youtube:1o4pw5i3]
edman5555
11-02-2010, 05:01 PM
I used my twitter account yesterday to ask Phil Baroni what he thinks about the Yushin Okami-Nate Marquardt match up. He told me he has a feeling Yushin will win.
I also watched the Thales Leites/Nate fight last night. I don't know if Thales striking is just that much better than I thought but he did pretty well against Nate. He dropped him in the first couple of minutes, but ended up getting kinda owned on the feet for the remainder of the fight. Though that may have been because Thales was so rocked from that illegal knee he took in the beginning. That seemed to throw him off, it might have been a different fight if it was not for that.
Looking at his last fights, he has done well in the striking department. He has been fighting a lot of grapplers though. Maia, Dean Lister, Rhousimar Palhares, Jeremy Horn, Gouviea(all around but really a C level fighter). He was obliterated by Silva, and about even? with Thales.
Aside from those he has def rocked the comp as far as grapplers go and he schooled Kampmann. I don't know what to think about Kampmanns striking, he looks good..I have heard a lot about it but you know how the hype goes. His striking is good but it seems like he wins more with his grappling than people really give him credit for. Nate is also much larger.
Yushin has the wrestling advantage. He has gone up against guys with good striking like Belcher(though he was young at the time), A Silva(ended too early to tell), Swick, Munoz has semi decent striking(maybe semi shitty). He seems to mostly win with Wrestling/Judo though.
I guess it is somewhat even on the feet, maybe a slight edge to Marquardt though I am not sold on his striking.
Takedown defense is def Yushin, Munoz tried like hell to get him down. Jake shields even had a somewhat difficult time doing it though he did get them.
Takedowns has to be Yushin but I don't know how easy of a time he will have landing them..
Logic would dictate that Yushin's standup should fare better because Nate has to watch out for the Takedowns but this one is so close.
I think Yushin can win but most likely by Decision..I keep checking the damn odds but they aren't posting.
MMA_scientist
11-02-2010, 05:12 PM
Yeah, I am leaning more and more towards Yushin now. I put it at about even, maybe slight edge to Yushin now. I keep checking for the decision props to come out too... If Okami hits +200, I am going to toss down a bet. I don't know how much better the decision prop odds will be for Okami than +200.
edman5555
11-02-2010, 05:17 PM
Yeah Yushin goes to decision a lot but he did have a 2nd round tko of Lucio Linhares recently and Nate has 4 tkos in his last 5 fights so the bookies might see it as an unlikely outcome but I doubt it. He is at +180 regularly so I would expect at least +250 for Dec, honestly I am hoping for over +300
Yeah Yushin goes to decision a lot but he did have a 2nd round tko of Lucio Linhares recently. . .
He schooled Lucio on the feet, no doubt, but you should clarify that it was a doctor stoppage and not a true TKO.
edman5555
11-02-2010, 07:06 PM
oh ok
oh ok
Don't get smart with me, boy.
I've got to say this is likely the worst UFC fight card I've ever seen.
edman5555
11-02-2010, 07:28 PM
oh ok
Don't get smart with me, boy.
Don't get your panties in a bunch.
I've got to say this is likely the worst UFC fight card I've ever seen.
Someone one Sherdog was complaining about that too, and honestly, I don't get it. What's the problem?
Nate vs Okami is significant as it determines the #1 contender. Will Nate get that second title shot that he's long been fighting for? Or will Okami finally get the shot that many feel is long overdue?
Rivera vs Sakara - should be a damn good fight
Siver vs Winner - should also be a good fight
Amir vs Sobatta - I don't know shit about Sabotta, but Amir's usually fun to watch
K-Sos vs Goran - should be yet another good, exciting fight
Unless you're just pissed there aren't a lot of big names, I honestly don't see what the problem is. We all know that big names don't always equal exciting fights anyway.
poopoo333
11-02-2010, 07:35 PM
Yeah I think this card is great too, especially for a free card.
The co-main event is Alessio Sakara vs Jorge Rivera. Nuff said. This card is garbage. I can't even think of a worse Fight Night card.
edman5555
11-02-2010, 08:08 PM
Siver is awesome to watch fight. MArq-Okami is important. The rest will be slugfests. They try to make FN cards this way, lots of standup action with a semi decent headliner. How many free cards are better than this?
The co-main event is Alessio Sakara vs Jorge Rivera. Nuff said. This card is garbage. I can't even think of a worse Fight Night card.
I'm not getting it. Are you just wanting big names or what? Because Rivera/Sakara SHOULD be a barn burner.
Siver is awesome to watch fight. MArq-Okami is important. The rest will be slugfests. They try to make FN cards this way, lots of standup action with a semi decent headliner. How many free cards are better than this?
I also like Siver a lot, and I never turn down a good slug fest.
Siver is awesome to watch fight. MArq-Okami is important. The rest will be slugfests. They try to make FN cards this way, lots of standup action with a semi decent headliner. How many free cards are better than this?
All of them?
I just don't give a shit about any of these fighters. There is ONE relevant fight on the entire card, and it's probably going to underwhelm.
Well there's always Strikeforce Challengers where you don't even know who 80% of them are. You should try lowering your expectations on a free card put on in another country sometime, you might like the results.
Well there's always Strikeforce Challengers where you don't even know who 80% of them are. You should try lowering your expectations on a free card put on in another country sometime, you might like the results.
Another excellent point from a new voice in the debate.
Verdict: zY's an asshole.
Suck it, homey.
lol
All you holier than thou Zuffa Zombies can eat my choad.
I'm bitching about ONE(1) card. One card that objectively fucking sucks, even compared to their usual overseas fare. Get over it or find a fire to go die in.
edman5555
11-02-2010, 09:45 PM
I hear what your saying about Relevancy. I assume you mean for title contention. Not every card can have highly ranked fighters on it, there are just too many cards and only five weight classes. It sounds like the winner of this might get a title shot though I just can't see them letting Okami fight him. Who the hell knows anything about Okami besides us? He is far from popular.
edman5555
11-02-2010, 09:46 PM
I'm not a zuffa zombie dumbass. I just know you can't have all the top ranked fighters on every card. Every card can't be Brock Lesnar or GSP. Obviously. It's free anyways
poopoo333
11-02-2010, 09:53 PM
I am looking forward to Soszynski/Reljic the most
lol
All you holier than thou Zuffa Zombies can eat my choad.
I'm bitching about ONE(1) card. One card that objectively fucking sucks, even compared to their usual overseas fare. Get over it or find a fire to go die in.
You literally made me "LOL."
I'm just fucking with you . . . for the most part. But I do think you're a douche for complaining. This card is fine, especially for free. What are you going to watch instead? Silk Stalkings re-runs on USA?
ONE(1)
It amused me.
I'm not a zuffa zombie dumbass. I just know you can't have all the top ranked fighters on every card. Every card can't be Brock Lesnar or GSP. Obviously. It's free anyways
Your mother is free.
And wtf is 'Silk Stalkings'?
Your mother is free.
Damn, zY. Is that your first mom joke around here?
Shit took me off guard. . .
And wtf is 'Silk Stalkings'?
Crime drama that came on USA in the mid-90s.
edman5555
11-03-2010, 12:29 AM
Silk stalkings is what your mother wears when she charges 1 dollar.
My motto, fuck lotto. I'll get the 7 digits from your mother for a dollar tomorrow.
Silk stalkings is what your mother wears when she charges 1 dollar.
LOL
Why edman, you've been so relatively quiet and respectful around here so far. How nice it is to see you coming out of your shell.
Mr. IWS
11-03-2010, 08:44 AM
^^^^^^^^LOL
poopoo333
11-03-2010, 09:42 AM
My motto, fuck lotto. I'll get the 7 digits from your mother for a dollar tomorrow.
http://dalje.com/slike/slike_3/r1/g2007/m04/x82138246418959171_4.jpg
Mr. IWS
11-03-2010, 10:24 AM
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111
Mike Hammersmith
Nate "The Great" Marquardt vs. Yushin "Thunder" Okami: With Vitor Belfort being shuffled into a title shot, Yushin Okami was left without an opponent for his bout in Germany at UFC 122. This situation didn't last long though, as Nate "The Great" Marquardt was thrown deep into the title mix at 185lbs, and is set to take on Okami in a number one contenders match.
There are certain "nitch" styles that make a fighter nearly impossible to beat for some, and easy pickings for others, and Okami has one such style. His lengthy striking and nearly unmovable base has made him a nightmare for limited fighters like Jason MacDonald and Dean Lister, but Marquardt will suffer no such issues with the Japanese striker. Armed with huge power on the feet and underrated combination attacks, Marquardt should be able to stick and move on Okami, land power shots, and ultimately defeat Okami at his own game. Once again, odds have yet to emerge, but I'd be comfortable with Marquardt at anything short of -500 to take Okami out and ensure his title shot.
MMA_scientist
11-03-2010, 02:36 PM
Ridiculous.
edman5555
11-03-2010, 04:19 PM
Someone please show the gif of Thales Leites dropping Marquardt with a punch.
http://i41.tinypic.com/ws7ev7.gif
LOL. I don't know why ya'll are so caught up in that.
Leites is a professional fighter and it was also 2 1/2 years ago.
I think it has about 3% relevance to the upcoming fight.
edman5555
11-03-2010, 05:57 PM
I know but Hammersmith talks like Yushin has no chance. He does, I am waiting for the Yushin by decision prop to come out.
I will at least say that betting Marquardt at -500 is insane.
edman5555
11-03-2010, 06:22 PM
Nate's standup is def more powerful than Yushins but I don't know how easy a time he will have landing on him.
Nate's standup is def more powerful than Yushins but I don't know how easy a time he will have landing on him.
Munoz landed at least a couple of good punches and I think rocked Yushin at one point as well.
In my view, if Munoz can do it, Nate can certainly do it. With that said, Yushin has only been finished once in his entire career, and that was several years ago, so I doubt Nate will be finishing this one.
Svino
11-03-2010, 06:45 PM
Nate will be able to outstrike Okami to the extent that he can keep the fight standing. Okami's striking is being overrated due to the Linhares fight, IMO.
That said, I think Marquardt will be spending a lot of time on his back. I'm likely looking to bet on Okami. Marquardt at -500 is completely insane.
Let me explain what that GIF shows. It shows what everyone should already know, and that is that Nates striking is way wild and he leaves himself open. And it has not improved much. He throws wide shots and brings his hands down to his waist at times. IMO, pure striking technique goes to Yushin.
Will Nate just rush him and finish him...maybe. But to be honest, he really only did do that to Kamp. and that was mostly because Kamp. can be a slow starter.
i really think that Nates "Beast" reputation is a bit overdone. The guy has basically feasted on one dimensional wrestlers much like Chuck did.
What wrestlers are we talking about here? Nate has only fought about a handful of wrestlers at all in his career. Only two of which he fought in the UFC out of his 12 UFC fights.
Will he win? Probably. I'd give it about 65% in Marquardt's favor. -500 is way too high though. I don't think Okami will be able to stick and move on Marquardt like he did on Munoz. Marquardt won't be looking for the takedown after getting peppered with jabs and shit. The only thing I can see presenting major issues for Marquardt here is the fact that Okami is a southpaw but I seriously question the one punch power of Yushin. Yushin could ride out a 3 round decision but I don't see him finishing this fight seeing as Nate is a very tough fighter who is hard to finish.
What wrestlers are we talking about here? Nate has only fought about a handful of wrestlers at all in his career. Only two of which he fought in the UFC out of his 12 UFC fights.
Will he win? Probably. I'd give it about 65% in Marquardt's favor. -500 is way too high though. I don't think Okami will be able to stick and move on Marquardt like he did on Munoz. Marquardt won't be looking for the takedown after getting peppered with jabs and shit. The only thing I can see presenting major issues for Marquardt here is the fact that Okami is a southpaw but I seriously question the one punch power of Yushin. Yushin could ride out a 3 round decision but I don't see him finishing this fight seeing as Nate is a very tough fighter who is hard to finish.
Almost all of Nates victims in the UFC are ground fighters, maybe not what you consider a wrestler, but for sure, a ground based fighter....Salaverry, Doerkson, Lister, Horn, Leitis, Maia, Paulhares.
Kamp and Silva are really the only good strikers he has faced in the UFC. It sort of boggles my mind a bit that people think Nate has a big or even decent edge in this fight. I see NO evidence to prove it. To me, this fight is pretty much a toss up, so IMO, the dog would be the right play.
I agree that Nate is overrated as a striker, but I take exception to the Liddell comment. Chuck beat up his fair share of strikers. Vitor, Pele, Mezger, Wanderlei, Overeem. Cmon.
Svino
11-04-2010, 03:18 AM
i really think that Nates "Beast" reputation is a bit overdone. The guy has basically feasted on one dimensional wrestlers much like Chuck did.
If you want to see what Marquardt can do against a "one dimensional wrestler", look no further than the Sonnen fight.
MMA_scientist
11-04-2010, 09:34 AM
I am actually leaning Okami's way now... originally I saw it like 55% for Nate. But if you really get down to it, Nate has only really beaten 1 top 10 guy in the UFC, Maia (ftr, I think it was a fluke and I would take Maia in the rematch). Palhares was able to take Nate right down, even after the Sonnen TD defense debacle.
I think Nate is just flat out overrated. He is good, no doubt, but I just don't see him as the solid # 2 or # 3 that a lot of guys see him as (including me, formerly). I think there is a great chance that Yushin just takes him right down and there is nothing Nate can do to stop it. Yushin is a WAY better "grappler" than Sonnen, so there is almost no chance of a submission. If you haven't seen it, check out Okami's ADCC match with Maia. Maia won, but only because of the ADCC scoring- had it been MMA, Okami would have won a decision. Okami is not going to be subbed.
So on the ground, I think Okami has the edge, because of his takedowns.
Standing, I still give the edge to Nate... but I think it is closer than some think. Nate has a more versatile attack and more power. But Yushin has a strong clinch and more reach. Add in the fact that the takedown is going to in Nate's mind, and I think it is really close standing.
Yushin has more ways to win this. I do think it is going to a decision. I am going to do a decision prop, and maybe Okami by decision as well.
I agree that Nate is overrated as a striker, but I take exception to the Liddell comment. Chuck beat up his fair share of strikers. Vitor, Pele, Mezger, Wanderlei, Overeem. Cmon.
He had to take Overeem down, because he was losing the stand up. Wand met him at the right time, Mezger thought he could strike. But I will give you Vitor, that was a good win against a good striker.
I've only seen the highlights, but didn't he KO Overeem on the feet?
poopoo333
11-04-2010, 01:31 PM
Beating Overeem doesn't really matter anymore, but beating ubereem does.
I've only seen the highlights, but he didn't KO Overeem on the feet?
Yup.
http://i28.tinypic.com/r9oopi.jpg
Chuck was getting blasted on the feet, but that's how he always fought. Eat your punches and land his harder shots. He just can't take it anymore.
Saying Wand and Mezger don't count is LOL too.
And yeah Chuck will go for takedowns against strikers because he's an MMA fighter. Just like Nate is and will. He shot in on Silva immediately. Anyways I just think it was a bad comparison.
I've only seen the highlights, but he didn't KO Overeem on the feet?
Yup.
http://i28.tinypic.com/r9oopi.jpg
Chuck was getting blasted on the feet, but that's how he always fought. Eat your punches and land his harder shots. He just can't take it anymore.
Saying Wand and Mezger don't count is LOL too.
And yeah Chuck will go for takedowns against strikers because he's an MMA fighter. Just like Nate is and will. He shot in on Silva immediately. Anyways I just think it was a bad comparison.
Still think it is a fair comparison. Not like I am saying these two fighters suck. Just pointing out that alot of their impressive wins happen to come against ground fighters. Once again, i am not saying that these fighters are not great fighters. This seems to happen when something is said about a fighter that someone really likes. I think Chuck was an exceptional fighter, BUT, I also believe that he happened to be that fighter at a time that benefited him.
^^^^^^^^^^^ Why are you Nancy's arguing about things that have nothing to do with this event? Since when is Overeem and Liddell on this card?
I swear ................
The funny thing is that GIF actually shows that Chuck was really not that great of a striker. His form is actually very bad. Did he get the job done in his era...Yes. But, in the current state of MMA a guy throwing punches like he did back then never gets close to a title.
^^^^^^^^^^^ Why are you Nancy's arguing about things that have nothing to do with this event? Since when is Overeem and Liddell on this card?
I swear ................
Just a friendly conversation. There you go trying to stir up shit.
There you go trying to stir up shit.
Sorry my bad.....
I guess trying to get everyone back on topic is stirring shit up
The funny thing is that GIF actually shows that Chuck was really not that great of a striker. His form is actually very bad. Did he get the job done in his era...Yes. But, in the current state of MMA a guy throwing punches like he did back then never gets close to a title.
While I see what you're saying, I would point out that at the end of the day all that matters is whether or not you're effective. Consider Machida. His striking style is certainly not what people would call "textbook" striking, but it's what seems to work best for him. I don't think he would fare better if he switched to boxing-style handwork (which seems to be the default in MMA, and if you're not doing that, you're "doing it wrong.")
As for Chuck, he was beating Rashad (who went on to win the title) before the KO and was for damn sure beating Franklin. If his chin was still there, I'm sure he'd still be a contender.
Just a friendly conversation. There you go trying to stir up shit.
LOL
There you go trying to stir up shit.
Sorry my bad.....
I guess trying to get everyone back on topic is stirring shit up
Just messing with you. I can not even remember what the topic was.
Still think it is a fair comparison. Not like I am saying these two fighters suck. Just pointing out that alot of their impressive wins happen to come against ground fighters. Once again, i am not saying that these fighters are not great fighters. This seems to happen when something is said about a fighter that someone really likes. I think Chuck was an exceptional fighter, BUT, I also believe that he happened to be that fighter at a time that benefited him.
The funny thing is that GIF actually shows that Chuck was really not that great of a striker. His form is actually very bad. Did he get the job done in his era...Yes. But, in the current state of MMA a guy throwing punches like he did back then never gets close to a title.
Overeem has been in the K1 World Grand Prix 2 years in a row, and Chuck knocked him smooth out. Chuck always relied on his chin and reflexes, which are gone. That's the main reason he's not a top fighter anymore. If he could still take a shot, even at 40, you can bet he'd put the smackdown on some top guys.
And I'm not some huge Chuck fan, so you can discount that angle real quick. I just try not to get sucked in to revisionist history nonsense.
The funny thing is that GIF actually shows that Chuck was really not that great of a striker. His form is actually very bad. Did he get the job done in his era...Yes. But, in the current state of MMA a guy throwing punches like he did back then never gets close to a title.
While I see what you're saying, I would point out that at the end of the day all that matters is whether or not you're effective. Consider Machida. His striking style is certainly not what people would call "textbook" striking, but it's what seems to work best for him. I don't think he would fare better if he switched to boxing-style handwork (which seems to be the default in MMA, and if you're not doing that, you're "doing it wrong.")
As for Chuck, he was beating Rashad (who went on to win the title) before the KO and was for damn sure beating Franklin. If his chin was still there, I'm sure he'd still be a contender.
Chin or not, I just really do not believe Chuck would fair well in todays top tier MMA. His style just leaves himself way to open for todays game where most of the MMA fighters now know much better how to throw their fists. Machida is actually a very good striker with very good speed and excellent in and out movement. A style much more suited for todays MMA.
Chuck was beating Franklin, but it was his wild style that allowed Franklin to get that shot in. The guy just can not throw tight punches, and that style worked well in its day.
Still think it is a fair comparison. Not like I am saying these two fighters suck. Just pointing out that alot of their impressive wins happen to come against ground fighters. Once again, i am not saying that these fighters are not great fighters. This seems to happen when something is said about a fighter that someone really likes. I think Chuck was an exceptional fighter, BUT, I also believe that he happened to be that fighter at a time that benefited him.
The funny thing is that GIF actually shows that Chuck was really not that great of a striker. His form is actually very bad. Did he get the job done in his era...Yes. But, in the current state of MMA a guy throwing punches like he did back then never gets close to a title.
Overeem has been in the K1 World Grand Prix 2 years in a row, and Chuck knocked him smooth out. Chuck always relied on his chin and reflexes, which are gone. That's the main reason he's not a top fighter anymore. If he could still take a shot, even at 40, you can bet he'd put the smackdown on some top guys.
And I'm not some huge Chuck fan, so you can discount that angle real quick. I just try not to get sucked in to revisionist history nonsense.
Sorry, I just do not look at it as revisionist. Chuck was and is a sloppy striker, if you do not think he is, than we just disagree. He almost got knocked out in that Overeem fight, but he was able to take him down and Overeem gassed as usual.
the guys today know better how to take advantage of the sloppy style that Chuck utilized in his heyday. the punch that Rashad KO'd Chuck with would have KO'd prime Chuck also. It was the fact that Rashad was able to hit him with that shot that was the problem. Fighters were just not able to take advantage of Chucks holes back in the day.
MMA_scientist
11-04-2010, 03:37 PM
I agree Chuck was more brawler than refined striker... but I disagree that Chuck is that far removed from "today's" guys. I think a prime Chuck would still be very competitive and might even be champ given the right circumstances.
I think he still beats anyone that comes to grapple. He started losing when guys started striking with him. Jardine, Rampage, Rashad, Franklin... what do all these guys have in common? Not one of them tried to take him down.
I do agree he was more brawler than technical striker though.
I agree Chuck was more brawler than refined striker... but I disagree that Chuck is that far removed from "today's" guys. I think a prime Chuck would still be very competitive and might even be champ given the right circumstances.
I think he still beats anyone that comes to grapple. He started losing when guys started striking with him. Jardine, Rampage, Rashad, Franklin... what do all these guys have in common? Not one of them tried to take him down.
I do agree he was more brawler than technical striker though.
Once again, I am not saying he sucked. I still think he was a damn good fighter, and basically created a style(sprawl and brawl). The circumstances you speak of I am sure are what I alluded to in the beginning. Chuck getting the style matchups he needs. I just firmly believe that some of these guys that we think have "lost" it, were actually just passed by ever evolving fighters. A prime Hughes always loses to a prime GSP IMO.
MMA_scientist
11-04-2010, 04:10 PM
^ I agree that a prime GSP would beat prime Hughes... but I don't feel that a prime Rashad would beat a prime Chuck more than 50%. GSP is justa better fighter. I don't think that all the guys that beat Chuck were better fighters, or that he was passed by... more that he aged and his reflexed and chin slowed down. Also, guys figured him out because there was a lot of footage of him winning the same way over and over. So Rashad was like, you know what, I am not even going to try to take this guy down. That was the beginning of the end for Chuck.
I remember Chuck and Rashad both threw mega-punches at about the same time. I wonder what would've happened if Chuck had landed first.
Mr. IWS
11-04-2010, 04:54 PM
I remember Chuck and Rashad both threw mega-punches at about the same time. I wonder what would've happened if Chuck had landed first.
I might have won my bet, instead of losing it. LOL
I might have won my bet, instead of losing it. LOL
LOL
That was before my betting days, but I probably would've been on Chuck, too.
Mr. IWS
11-04-2010, 04:59 PM
I swear I lost like 5 straight bets that chuck was involved in. Didnt matter which side. If i was on him he lost, If I was on the other guy, he won.
I swear I lost like 5 straight bets that chuck was involved in. Didnt matter which side. If i was on him he lost, If I was on the other guy, he won.
This is why I'm hesitant to bet on Ben Henderson. I've lost betting against him twice now, but I that as soon as I switch sides he's going to lose.
MMA_scientist
11-04-2010, 05:19 PM
Bendo's days are numbered. None of those LW's are going to make a big splash IMO. I think Henderson/Varner/Cerrone will be md tier guys... but none will threaten for the title.
Bendo's days are numbered. None of those LW's are going to make a big splash IMO. I think Henderson/Varner/Cerrone will be md tier guys... but none will threaten for the title.
Who knows. Bendo is looking to me like an Edgar type . . . the little engine that could. But I do agree that there are probably no WEC LWs will threaten for the title. I'm more concerned about who among them will at least stick around and perform respectably, like Condit has been doing.
I'm also really interested to see how Pettis is going to do against Bendo. I think he definitely has a shot to win this one. He has a really interesting style. Showtime is a proper nickname.
Svino
11-04-2010, 05:28 PM
Bendo's days are numbered. None of those LW's are going to make a big splash IMO. I think Henderson/Varner/Cerrone will be md tier guys... but none will threaten for the title.
I think you're right. WEC's LWs just aren't that good in my opinion.
edman5555
11-04-2010, 08:11 PM
I just watched Yushin/Maia ADCC match. I had no idea Yushin was that good. He had Damiens back for a little while.
MMA_scientist
11-05-2010, 09:41 AM
^^ that's what I have been saying, Yushin is a good ass grappler. He has a a rock base, and he won't be subbed.
He didn't actually get Maia's back though... in bjj and ADCC scoring, you have to get both hooks in to officially have the back. They also don't score the first 5 minutes of the match to encourage guys to try to finish...
But the point remains, Yushin is a top level grappler.
edman5555
11-05-2010, 04:20 PM
Yeah I think he can take Nate down too. Leites did, Pall Harris did, Chael Sonnen did as well. ( Sonnen almost doesn't count towards the argument because he is so good). I think Yushin should be able to do it, and he can probably hold him down a bit too.
I haven't seen a lot of his fights so I don't know how good his standup is. SBJJ made some good points about it. The only thing that concerns me is Nate has power and sometimes he swings for the fences. He could catch Yushin with something, though Yushin has the takedown out. (Nate hurts him, rushes in and makes himself more susceptible to a takedown).
It seems to me like Yushin might actually have the advantage in this one. I don't know if I am BS'ing myself though. I tend to do that when I have a UDog that has a shot.
MMA_scientist
11-05-2010, 04:25 PM
I tend to talk myself into bets as well. And I must be pretty persuasive because I tend to talk everyone around me into the bet too.
But all along I have been saying Yushin has value. Before I thought it might be 55/45 Marquart (Yushin would still have value at the current line)... but now I think it is more 55/45 for Okami.
Yeah I think he can take Nate down too. Leites did, Pall Harris did, Chael Sonnen (R-Or) did as well. ( Sonnen (R-Or) almost doesn't count towards the argument because he is so good). I think Yushin should be able to do it, and he can probably hold him down a bit too.
I haven't seen a lot of his fights so I don't know how good his standup is. SBJJ made some good points about it. The only thing that concerns me is Nate has power and sometimes he swings for the fences. He could catch Yushin with something, though Yushin has the takedown out. (Nate hurts him, rushes in and makes himself more susceptible to a takedown).
It seems to me like Yushin might actually have the advantage in this one. I don't know if I am BS'ing myself though. I tend to do that when I have a UDog that has a shot.
Yea, I sort of fear like I might be doing that also. Do not get me wrong, I think this thing is close, and Nate does have some advantages, like the explosive power. At the same time, Yushin has sort of earned enough respect from me to think that he could handle that power. But I just look at it as a REAL close fight where the play should be the dog.
MMA_scientist
11-05-2010, 04:29 PM
^^ Agreed. Even if Nate has an edge, it is small, and Okami is the only play, regardless of whether you think he is < 50%... you pretty much have to think he is < 35%, which is where the line has him now.
Remember guys, Nate is good up to -500.
edman5555
11-05-2010, 04:44 PM
Okami via decision will be a sweet payoff as well. I might split it up though, 50 percent on him to win and 50 percent on him to win via decision. I am not sure.
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