View Full Version : Bellator 24
poopoo333
08-06-2010, 12:10 AM
http://www.bestfightodds.com/events/302.png (http://www.bestfightodds.com)
poopoo333
08-06-2010, 12:22 AM
hmmm.. nice
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Goodman
lol, looks like Lombard has value.
hmmm.. nice
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Goodman
lol, looks like Lombard has value.
I dont know poopoo I think its going to be alot closer fight than you think
Why bother putting a line up? They clearly don't want anyone betting on this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Goodman
lol, looks like Lombard has value.
Not as bad as I expected based on your comment. . .
poopoo333
08-08-2010, 11:09 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Goodman
lol, looks like Lombard has value.
Not as bad as I expected based on your comment. . .
Yeah, I was kind of joking.
Also on this card:
Neil Grove/Eddie Sanchez
Luis Palomina/Yves Edwards
Thoughts?
Megumi Fujii
I really think I might take that bet.
^^^ Muthafuckin' thoughts?
Fuck it. It's time to man up.
5u on Fujii to win 1u.
^^^ Muthafuckin' thoughts?
.........
I've seen one of her fights and never heard of her opponent.
I've seen one of her fights and never heard of her opponent.
::lmao:: I didnt even realize they were girls till just now
I've seen one of her fights and never heard of her opponent.
Well let me enlighten you.
She's currently 20-0. 17 of those wins are by stoppage (16 submissions and 1 TKO). She's a blackbelt in both judo and jiu-jitsu. According to Wikipedia, "Fujii is also a highly decorated fighter outside of mixed martial arts, with accomplishments including Japanese National Sambo and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Champion, five Second Place finishes in the World Sambo Championships, Ground Impact Professional BJJ Tournament Champion and 2004 and 2006 BJJ Pan-Am Champion." She is currently being trained by Josh Barnett.
If there's a black mark on her record, it's that many of her wins are to inexperienced fighters and/or fighters with losing records. This seems to be common with female fighters, though.
Her opponent, Carla Esparza, is, from what I've read, a two-time All-American wrestler. In MMA, she's 3-0, with only one of those wins to a fighter with a winning record. I think her striking could potentially be better than Megumi's. That's just a guess from an article I read, though. I did watch two of her fights and her striking didn't look awesome or anything.
Just because of her wrestling background, I suppose she could stun the world with a decision via control. But of what I've watched from Megumi, she is usually the one in control.
::lmao:: I didnt even realize they were girls till just now
Carla?
I've seen one of her fights and never heard of her opponent.
Well let me enlighten you.
She's currently 20-0. 17 of those wins are by stoppage (16 submissions and 1 TKO). She's a blackbelt in both judo and jiu-jitsu. According to Wikipedia, "Fujii is also a highly decorated fighter outside of mixed martial arts, with accomplishments including Japanese National Sambo and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Champion, five Second Place finishes in the World Sambo Championships, Ground Impact Professional BJJ Tournament Champion and 2004 and 2006 BJJ Pan-Am Champion." She is currently being trained by Josh Barnett.
If there's a black mark on her record, it's that many of her wins are to inexperienced fighters and/or fighters with losing records. This seems to be common with female fighters, though.
Her opponent, Carla Esparza, is, from what I've read, a two-time All-American wrestler. In MMA, she's 3-0, with only one of those wins to a fighter with a winning record. I think her striking could potentially be better than Megumi's. That's just a guess from an article I read, though. I did watch two of her fights and her striking didn't look awesome or anything.
Just because of her wrestling background, I suppose she could stun the world with a decision via control. But of what I've watched from Megumi, she is usually the one in control.
Yeah I've read all about her, just never actually watched her fights except the Bellator one, where she didn't exactly blow my skirt up. But yeah losing via control, that's probably the only thing I'd be worried about. That and her potentially being undersized.
I'm trying to figure out how this is much different than GSP fighting a guy who is 3-0.
The line on that shit would be like -2000.
I'm trying to figure out how this is much different than GSP fighting a guy who is 3-0.
The line on that shit would be like -2000.
Well its according to who that 3-0 fighter is .
Well its according to who that 3-0 fighter is .
Does it really matter? They're 3-0. I mean, if unless they are documented to be able to harness their chi and shoot it across the cage or something, I'm not sure what factors would lead one to believe that such a green fighter could beat GSP.
Because it's women's MMA, not the stacked UFC men's welterweight division.
Does it really matter? They're 3-0. I mean, if unless they are documented to be able to harness their chi and shoot it across the cage or something, I'm not sure what factors would lead one to believe that such a green fighter could beat GSP.
Well will that insight Couture the UFC HW champ should have been -2000 to 2-1 Brock Lensar when they fought.
I mean it shouldnt matter Brock was an animal he was only 2-1 at the time
SPX have you actually seen footage of these two girls fighting?
Well will that insight Couture the UFC HW champ should have been -2000 to 2-1 Brock Lensar when they fought.
I mean it shouldnt matter Brock was an animal he was only 2-1 at the time
It's not exactly the same, because Couture was not, at that time, considered by many to be the P4P best female fighter in the world (which Fujii is right now). That's why I used the GSP example.
SPX have you actually seen footage of these two girls fighting?
I've seen 2 of Carla's 3 fights.
And yes, I've seen some of Fujii's stuff. She has vids all over YouTube.
I just got done watching her Bellator fight. Not very exciting because her opponent wraps her up from the bottom and refuses to fight most of the time, but Fujii was clearly in control the entire time. Here's the fight:
http://squabbles.com/2010/07/megumi-fuj ... ght-video/ (http://squabbles.com/2010/07/megumi-fujii-vs-sarah-schneider-bellator-21-full-fight-video/)
MMA_scientist
08-10-2010, 09:57 PM
^^ aren't you worried about a sprawl and brawl decision?
Those chick wrestlers are pretty good.
MMA_scientist
08-10-2010, 09:58 PM
You know more about chick fighters than any of us. I don't bet the women. I don't trust them.
^^ aren't you worried about a sprawl and brawl decision?
Those chick wrestlers are pretty good.
I'm worried. If I didn't just recently get a good bit ahead then I wouldn't take the risk, but after the last event I'm up about 15u for the year.
I'm just thinking logically here. Megumi has great takedowns, is being trained by one of the best catch wrestlers in the world, and is just all around way fucking experienced.
She did get submitted by Kyra Gracie, though, in ADCC in 2005:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rLddFuWs0E
A Fujii highlight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cBHXb977Vs
I only like betting womens fights that have a wrestler vs someone with zero ground game
MMA_scientist
08-10-2010, 10:17 PM
^^ aren't you worried about a sprawl and brawl decision?
Those chick wrestlers are pretty good.
I'm worried. If I didn't just recently get a good bit ahead then I wouldn't take the risk, but after the last event I'm up about 15u for the year.
I'm just thinking logically here. Megumi's has great takedowns, is being trained by one of the best catch wrestlers in the world, and is just all around way fucking experienced.
She did get submitted by Kyra Gracie, though, in ADCC in 2005:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rLddFuWs0E
It is reflected in the line too... she is -500. The world of female grapplers is small. We have a world champ at my gym that only had to win 1 match to attain the title.
I am just saying, those chick wrestlers are good. I would not be surprised if Fujii can't take her down. But a female judoka is probably a lot closer in takedown skill than the male counterparts (wrestlers > judokas in mma takedowns, it is not even a discussion).
MMA_scientist
08-10-2010, 10:19 PM
I am not saying it is not a smart play... like I said, i know dick about female mma. just giving the counter point like you would do for me.
(wrestlers > judokas in mma takedowns, it is not even a discussion).
Interesting. I've usually just thought that they get their takedowns in different ways. Guys like Karo, Stun Gun, and Akiyama usually get their guy down, but they do it with a throw or trip, not a shot.
I am not saying it is not a smart play... like I said, i know dick about female mma. just giving the counter point like you would do for me.
I hear you. We'll see. 2x All-American does sound a little intimidating. But I just have to believe that she will not lose to this girl. It would be a massive upset. Female MMA isn't like men's MMA, so it's not an exact analogy, but Fujii's like the Fedor of women's MMA. At least for Fedor it took a very seasoned vet and BJJ expert.
Now go home and get your fucking shinebox.
MMA_scientist
08-10-2010, 10:39 PM
(wrestlers > judokas in mma takedowns, it is not even a discussion).
Interesting. I've usually just thought that they get their takedowns in different ways. Guys like Karo, Stun Gun, and Akiyama usually get their guy down, but they do it with a throw or trip, not a shot.
Yeah, they do fine against non wrestlers. But even Diego (who was only a HS wrestler) was taking Karo down. Akiyama gets his takedowns, but equal pedigree, who would win a takedown battle @ MW... Chael or Akiyama? Chael. Same thing witha guy like Karo, I like Karo's style, but he would lose a takedown battle with Koscheck or Fitch.
Judo is an awesome sport, but the rules are too limited.
poopoo333
08-10-2010, 11:06 PM
Is Yves Edwards going to lose again?
poopoo333
08-10-2010, 11:13 PM
Oh, and Carla took this fight on 4 days notice by the way.
sideloaded
08-11-2010, 01:12 AM
Im on Megumi 5u. And a parlay with Hecktor.
Im on Megumi 5u. And a parlay with Hecktor.
You think there's any chance she loses this fight?
It won't be easy, but Carla Esparza will have a shot at becoming Bellator Fighting Championships' first female tournament winner.
Bellator officials today announced that Esparza (3-0 MMA, 0-0 BFC) has officially replaced an injured Angela Magana and will face Megumi Fujii (20-0 MMA, 1-0 BFC) in a tourney bout at Thursday's Bellator 24 event.
Bellator 24, which kicks off the organization's 12-week third season, takes place Aug. 12 at the Seminole Hard Rock Hotel & Casino in Hollywood, Fla., and the main card airs live on FOX Sports Net.
MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com (http://www.mmajunkie.com)) originally confirmed the change on Monday.
"Angela’s unfortunate injury provides a spectacular opportunity for Carla," Bellator CEO Bjorn Rebney stated in today's release. "The two time All–American wrestler has been working intensively with Team Oyama and now she has the opportunity to shock the world of women's MMA.
"I have great respect for Carla's willingness to step up on short notice to face Megumi Fujii. She comes into this fight with a pure fighters attitude. She's not here to survive, she's coming here to win."
Fujii is widely regarded as the top female fighter on the planet, but Esparza plans on utilizing her extensive collegiate wrestling experience to nullify the Japanese fighter's impressive submission skills.
"I definitely think my wrestling is going to play a huge factor in this fight with Fujii," Esparza stated. "I don't think she's ever encountered a wrestler that has my striking ability. It's not going to be a grappling match. She's going to have to worry about my wrestling and my striking.
"If I wasn't in shape and ready for this fight I wouldn't have taken it. With just three days' notice I'm not going to be as prepared as I'd like to be, but I'm not going in there to survive for three rounds – I'm going in there to win."
Havis Jr
08-11-2010, 12:10 PM
If it's true that megumi has never fought a wrestler like Esparza, I would be a little scared to place a big bet on megumi.
What about Aguilar v Alverez
Anyone like this aguilar chick?? she has 2 wins and a lose over a common opponent that Alverez has lost to, she has more experience and looks to be the 2nd biggest favorite in the tourney besides megumi. She is pretty sick on the ground from what I've seen on youtube.
Holy shit, Bodog just opened Fujii at -825.
That's a little more what I was expecting across the board.
Judo is an awesome sport, but the rules are too limited.
I think, if anything, the problem is the gi. If you're looking at judo as a self-contained sport--that is, judo as judo--then it doesn't really matter. The gi is just part of what makes it what it is.
But if we're going to take judo out of its own world, and specifically if we're going to throw it into the gi-less world of MMA, then obviously some techniques are just not going to be valid and others will have to be modified. Once you take the gi off, Judo really isn't too far away from Greco, but with trips.
Holy shit, Bodog just opened Fujii at -825.
That's a little more what I was expecting across the board.
::lolzorz:: bodog
It was -460 last timw I looked at 5dimes
Judo is an awesome sport, but the rules are too limited.
I think, if anything, the problem is the gi. If you're looking at judo as a self-contained sport--that is, judo as judo--then it doesn't really matter. The gi is just part of what makes it what it is.
But if we're going to take judo out of its own world, and specifically if we're going to throw it into the gi-less world of MMA, then obviously some techniques are just not going to be valid and others will have to be modified. Once you take the gi off, Judo really isn't too far away from Greco, but with trips.
I thought Judo also included ground work and submissions.
edman5555
08-11-2010, 06:06 PM
Yeah, I really don't see any decent bets on this card. Maybe Yves Edwards and Eddie Sanchez.
What day is this on? I'm going to try and watch my first Bellator this time
Tomorrow
thanks ::handshake::
I thought Judo also included ground work and submissions.
It does. On the ground, Judo actually has three distinct elements: chokes, joint locks, and pins. (You can win a judo match by keeping your opponent pinned for 30 seconds, which I think is a little known fact.)
So I was only referring to the throwing/takedown aspect of the sport. Although Judo does also fall into some of the same pitfalls as BJJ on the ground, in that many of the chokes are also dependent on the gi. It's worth noting, though, that in a self-defense situation, sometimes that actually transitions well, because people wear clothes and jackets and whatnot.
It was -460 last timw I looked at 5dimes
-700 now on 5dimes.
Judo tends to limit it's competitors from what I've read, seeing as no leg locks of any kind are permitted in competition(at least thats what I keep reading and hearing about). While it would definitely serve MMA fighters with something of a ground game if I'm not mistaken Judo is primarily directed toward the trips and throws. While I'm not really sure if there is a lot of time allowed in competition to work transitions and different maneuvers because I have never competed in Judo I would think that some of it gets lost in translation when trying to convert it to suit an MMA type format. Lack of a gi being a huge detriment to Judo Players in and I'm not sure if Judo competition has things like stand ups when no one seems to be getting anywhere after things have hit the ground but if that is the case it seems like it could leave a Judo player guessing after a little while if nothing comes to fruition as far as submission attempts on the ground. Again I'm not an authority by any means on Judo so I don't know if any of what I said above about the inner workings of competition is right or not but it just sounds like a straight Judo base isn't the best base for MMA.
^^^ You're correct on many counts.
One thing I would have to mention is that Judo, while not being as extensive on the ground as BJJ, does have plenty of locks and holds. If I remember correctly, there are about 10 arm locks and 15 chokes in the system. Then there are a handful of leg locks and neck cranks, but these are not allowed in competition. So one thing you have to do is make sure not to confuse judo, the system, with the official Olympic rules.
(BTW, by contrast, there are 67 throws in Kodokan judo.)
A lot of people think that the Olympics have really done a disservice to Judo because, in order to make it more exciting and more palatable for spectators, the amount of time you have on the ground is limited. You get about 30 seconds (the ref just estimates) and if you can't do anything with it, you get stood up. I personally had to deal with this in the one judo comp I competed in. I was a 123 lb. white belt with a couple of months experience against a 150 lb. guy who had been doing it for a good bit longer. I actually had his back at one point, but he turtled up and I couldn't do much about it. I couldn't get an arm and couldn't get his neck, so we got stood back up. He went on to throw me and win the match a minute or two later.
The stand ups suck and I don't like them, but the bright spot is that the way you train in class is all up to your instructor. So yes, while the emphasis is on throws, my instructor was always really cool and during randori (sparring, basically) we could work the ground as much as we wanted, and we did it a lot.
There actually is a form of judo called Kosen Judo, which emphasizes ne waza, or ground work, but it's not prevalent and schools are hard to find. Many say that Kosen judo is pretty close to what Kodokan judo used to be, before the Olympics got involved.
For any Judoka who wanted to get into MMA, I would strongly advise that they watch Karo's DVD series. I've seen some of it and there's actually some really good stuff in there:
http://i45.tinypic.com/2mfgqck.jpg
Thanks for the info, SPX. I have always been intrigued by various grappling styles and all combat styles for that matter but I never really looked into Judo too much for whatever reason.
A lot of people think that the Olympics have really done a disservice to Judo because, in order to make it more exciting and more palatable for spectators, the amount of time you have on the ground is limited. You get about 30 seconds (the ref just estimates) and if you can't do anything with it, you get stood up. I personally had to deal with this in the one judo comp I competed in. I was a 123 lb. white belt with a couple of months experience against a 150 lb. guy who had been doing it for a good bit longer. I actually had his back at one point, but he turtled up and I couldn't do much about it. I couldn't get an arm and couldn't get his neck, so we got stood back up. He went on to throw me and win the match a minute or two later.
Yeah that's kinda what I suspected. The focus is mostly on the throws these days.
There was an interview with Royce Gracie on Fightweek a few weeks ago, and he was asked about UFC 1 and why BJJ was the best style. He made an interesting point about how martial arts get watered down over time because they lose the self-defense aspect and focus mainly on sport and point-fighting, and he pointed specifically to Judo as an example of that (and also lamented sport jiu-jitsu beginning to do the same with BJJ). In fact, didn't BJJ evolve from Judo, partially at least?
In fact, didn't BJJ evolve from Judo, partially at least?
That's exactly right.
To quote from Wiki:
The art began with Mitsuyo Maeda (aka Conde Koma, or Count Coma in English), an expert Japanese judoka and member of the then-recently-founded Kodokan. Maeda was one of five of Judo's top groundwork experts that Judo's founder Kano Jigoro sent overseas to demonstrate and spread his art to the world. Maeda left Japan in 1904 and visited a number of countries giving "jiu-do" demonstrations and accepting challenges from wrestlers, boxers, savate fighters and various other martial artists before eventually arriving in Brazil on November 14, 1914.
Jiu-jitsu is known as more than just a system of fighting. Since its inception in 1882, its parent art of judo was separated from older systems of Japanese jujutsu by an important difference that was passed on to BJJ: it is not solely a martial art: it is also a sport; a method for promoting physical fitness and building character in young people; and, ultimately, a way (Do) of life.
It is often claimed that BJJ is a development of traditional Japanese jujutsu, not judo, and that Maeda was a jujutsuka. However, Maeda never trained in jujutsu. He first trained in sumo as a teenager, and after the interest generated by stories about the success of judo at contests between judo and jujutsu that were occurring at the time, he changed from sumo to judo, becoming a student of Kano's Kodokan judo. He was promoted to 7th dan in Kodokan judo the day before he died in 1941.
Helio Gracie also held the rank of 6th dan in judo.
When Maeda left Japan, judo was still often referred to as "Kano Jiu-Jitsu", or, even more generically, simply as "Jiu-Jitsu." Higashi, the co-author of "Kano Jiu-Jitsu" wrote in the foreword:
"Some confusion has arisen over the employment of the term 'jiudo'. To make the matter clear I will state that jiudo is the term selected by Professor Kano as describing his system more accurately than jiu-jitsu does. Professor Kano is one of the leading educators of Japan, and it is natural that he should cast about for the technical word that would most accurately describe his system. But the Japanese people generally still cling to the more popular nomenclature and call it jiu-jitsu."
Outside Japan, however, this distinction was noted even less. Thus, when Maeda and Satake arrived in Brazil in 1914, every newspaper announced "jiu-jitsu" despite both men being Kodokan judoka.
The Japanese government itself did not officially mandate until 1925 that the correct name for the martial art taught in the Japanese public schools should be "judo" rather than "jujutsu". In Brazil, the art is still called "Jiu-Jitsu". When the Gracies went to the United States to spread their art, they used the terms "Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu" and "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" to differentiate from the already present styles using similar-sounding names. "Jiu-jitsu" is an older romanization that was the original spelling of the art in the West, and it is still in common use, whereas the modern Hepburn romanization is "j?jutsu."
The art is sometimes referred to as Gracie Jiu-Jitsu (GJJ), this name was trademarked by Rorion Gracie, but after a legal dispute with his cousin Carley Gracie, his trademark to the name was voided. Other members of the Gracie family often call their style by personalized names, such as Charles Gracie Jiu-Jitsu or Renzo Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, and similarly, the Machado brothers call their style Machado Jiu-Jitsu (MJJ). While each style and its instructors have their own unique aspects, they are all basic variations of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Today there are three major branches of BJJ from Brazil: Gracie Humaita, Gracie Barra, and Carlson Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. Each branch can trace its roots back to Mitsuyo Maeda and the Gracie family.
BTW, this conversation inspired me to look for Judo schools in the area. I found this guy's website:
http://www.zenbeijudo.com/index.shtml
I just had a long conversation about him. I actually asked him how much ground work he likes to teach, and he said back in his competition days that he considered himself "a ground specialist" and that he likes the focus to be 50/50 between standing and the ground. That was a big positive sign for me. I think I might go check a class out next week.
I still have my gi hanging in my closet. This is going to be interesting.
http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/520491/9srody_medium.jpg
MAIN CARD
Hector Lombard (185.5) vs. Herbert "Whisper" Goodman (183.5)
Eddie Sanchez (244.5) vs. Neil Grove (n/a)
Megumi Fujii (115.5) vs. Carla Esparza (115.25)
Jessica Aguilar (113.5) vs. Lynn Alvarez (114.5)
UNDERCARD
Yves Edwards (154.5) vs. Luis Palomino (154.5)
Eric Luke (154.5) vs. Farkhard Sharipov (144)
Brian Eckstein (182) vs. Tulio Quintanilla (135.5)
Fujii looks ready to fuck that bitch up.
Brian Eckstein (182) vs. Tulio Quintanilla (135.5)
should be a close fight since they are really close in size
Fujii also has beatiful arms.
Brian Eckstein (182) vs. Tulio Quintanilla (135.5)
should be a close fight since they are really close in size
LOL
Sucks for Teila Tuli.
BTW Megumi Fujii looks mega hot in that picture. She's gonna whip up on that flabby grandmother.
Fujii also has beatiful arms.
Jesus H are you wacking off to that picture?
Jesus H are you wacking off to that picture?
zY is right. She looks mega-hot.
No he's just passionately writing in a notebook without a desk to rest it on...
flabby grandmother.
Isnt fujii more 10 years older than Esparza ?
Isnt fujii more 10 years older than Esparza ?
She is, but who can tell?
To be fair, Esparza is actually attractive, but it's obvious that she's taken this fight on short notice and that's a bad angle for her.
flabby grandmother.
Isnt fujii more 10 years older than Esparza ?
Who the fuck knows or cares? I was just going by the picture.
No he's just passionately writing in a notebook without a desk to rest it on...
This is quality stuff. ::thumbup::
[quote="zY|":3jskb1mu] flabby grandmother.
Isnt fujii more 10 years older than Esparza ?
Who the fuck knows or cares? I was just going by the picture.[/quote:3jskb1mu]
::lmao:: You were calling her a grandmother , I thought you meant she was old .
::lmao:: You were calling her a grandmother , I thought you meant she was old .
LOL I had no idea their ages. Damn, Fujii is 36.
Thanks for the info, SPX. I have always been intrigued by various grappling styles and all combat styles for that matter but I never really looked into Judo too much for whatever reason.
Here's an interesting little judo promo video that shows off some of the throws:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUbNZH5QRBk
LOL I had no idea their ages. Damn, Fujii is 36.
Yeah, man. She's up there in age when it comes to fighting.
Look at those delts. . .
http://en.susumug.com/shooto/071108/susumu08.jpg
poopoo333
08-11-2010, 10:55 PM
Anybody want to discuss Neil Grove vs Eddie Sanchez?
Anybody want to discuss Neil Grove vs Eddie Sanchez?
Eddie wins. Discussion over.
poopoo333
08-11-2010, 11:02 PM
Anybody want to discuss Neil Grove vs Eddie Sanchez?
Eddie wins. Discussion over.
This is what I was thinking. I was thinking -185 was a decent line to take him at. I might just do that, but I have been a pussy lately.
I'll be able to contribute better to this tomorrow, after I've watched some tape.
sideloaded
08-11-2010, 11:58 PM
Guys I know the Fujii line is ridiculous but if she is gonna win, she's gonna win so you may as well take the money.
sideloaded
08-12-2010, 03:05 AM
This is from Josh Barnett's twitter. Megu looks ready!
http://i36.twitgoo.com/zn80lw.jpg
sideloaded
08-12-2010, 03:27 AM
Hey spx are u shadow priest x on sherdog?
Mr. IWS
08-12-2010, 08:56 AM
Look at those delts. . .
http://en.susumug.com/shooto/071108/susumu08.jpg
Looks like she is about to do the perfect plex a la Curt Hennig.
MMA_scientist
08-12-2010, 09:36 AM
RE: Judo
I think a lot of noise is made about the gi, but I don't really think it makes that big a difference. You see it in bjj all the time. All the best no-gi grapplers are gi trained (Marcelo Garcia, for example, trains 5 days in the gi and 1 day without the gi).
The problem I have with Judo is how they have gone to an extremely limited rule set to distinguish itself from wrestling and bjj. I actually used to do judo and I like it for what it is. But they recently outlawed double legs and the traditional kata garuma (fireman's carry). You are not allowed to attack teh legs on a first attack, you can grab the leg to counter though. You can only grip both hands on the same side of the gi for like 5 seconds. The sport focuses too much on its cannonized techniques and not enough on pure effectiveness.
As SPX mentioned, the ground work is extremely limited, and a lot of it is focused on stalling. For what its worth, I have rolled with about a dozen judo blackbelts and all of them were whitebelt to blue level on the ground, I had zero problem with any of them. That said, it is well known that the judo ground work level varies a lot- probably about as much as the takedown level vaires in bjj. It is just not a big part of judo. Just as takedowns are not a huge part of bjj, although they are part of the sport.
As far as judo v wrestling... wrestling encompasses everything judo has. The reverse is not true. Judo is too concerned about its traditions and the beuaty of the throws. Wrestling is about getting the guys down, period.
Hey spx are u shadow priest x on sherdog?
Ha ha ha.
Yeah, I am. You must've found my post in the Contenders on the Megumi fight.
The problem I have with Judo is how they have gone to an extremely limited rule set to distinguish itself from wrestling and bjj. I actually used to do judo and I like it for what it is. But they recently outlawed double legs and the traditional kata garuma (fireman's carry). You are not allowed to attack teh legs on a first attack, you can grab the leg to counter though. You can only grip both hands on the same side of the gi for like 5 seconds. The sport focuses too much on its cannonized techniques and not enough on pure effectiveness.
As SPX mentioned, the ground work is extremely limited, and a lot of it is focused on stalling. For what its worth, I have rolled with about a dozen judo blackbelts and all of them were whitebelt to blue level on the ground, I had zero problem with any of them. That said, it is well known that the judo ground work level varies a lot- probably about as much as the takedown level vaires in bjj. It is just not a big part of judo. Just as takedowns are not a huge part of bjj, although they are part of the sport.
This is true, but I feel that I should stress that just because this is what's going on in the competitive world, doesn't mean that this is what the rules are going to be in your dojo.
At my dojo, there were both judo and BJJ instructors, so some of the BJJ ended up carrying over into the judo. So in addition to the pure judo groundwork, you'd also see the occasional triangle and shit like that. Also, my instructors came from wrestling backgrounds, too, and that was obvious in some of the throws and reversals that they taught.
During randori, you were given the latitude to do whatever you wanted, provided the technique wasn't particularly unsafe. So you'd see the whole gamut of judo techniques and a lot of stuff that probably wasn't textbook judo. Hell, there was a Hapkido guy in my class, and from time to time we'd even throw punches and kicks at each other. My instructor didn't give a fuck.
I guess my point is this: 95% of your training time is spent in the dojo, under your instructors training methods, so if you have a good instructor all those stupid ass competition rules are only hindrances on competition day.
MMA_scientist
08-12-2010, 10:51 AM
I guess my point is this: 95% of your training time is spent in the dojo, under your instructors training methods, so if you have a good instructor all those stupid ass competition rules are only hindrances on competition day.
Agreed. It all depends on where you train. To me Judo offers the takedowns and the groundwork, so in that sense it is the most complete grappling art. But the takedowns are not as good as wrestlers and the mat work is not as good as bjj stylists, IMO. But that's what happens... because the other arts focus almost exclusively on those aspects.
Still, Judo is legit and I have nothing but respect for most judoka. For self defense, I think judo might be the best honestly. You see guys get ended with a throw and the ground work is more than enough for your average guy.
Still, Judo is legit and I have nothing but respect for most judoka. For self defense, I think judo might be the best honestly. You see guys get ended with a throw and the ground work is more than enough for your average guy.
This is pretty much where it's at.
I see it as kind of like mixed martial artists: MMA fighters will rarely be as good at striking as K-1 guys, or as good at matwork as pure BJJ guys, or as good at wrestling as pure wrestlers, but they're more well-rounded than any of them and are better at going with the fight regardless of what territory the fights goes into.
MMA_scientist
08-12-2010, 11:33 AM
This is pretty much where it's at.
I see it as kind of like mixed martial artists: MMA fighters will rarely be as good at striking as K-1 guys, or as good at matwork as pure BJJ guys, or as good at wrestling as pure wrestlers, but they're more well-rounded than any of them and are better at going with the fight regardless of what territory the fights goes into.
True. But the only flaw in that line of thinking is that you see judo guys getting beat even under their own rule set by bjj and wrestling stylists. I was actually heard a judo ref tell a wrestler to "stand up straight, this is judo." Which is wrong anyway, because the russian style of judo is much lower, similar to wrestling. You also see bjj guys get taken down, not for an ippon and then whip out a guard armbar and its over. As for your MMA analogy, I still favor MMA fighters that have a dominant skill (wrestling, bjj, striking).
But we are in agreement, judo is a well rounded grappling style. There are some judoka out there that are really really good on the ground too, and would give even world class bjj guys problems. Your average judo blackbelt is about mid to low blue belt level on the ground though, IME (this jibes with the common wisdom as well. Similarly, your average blackbelt in bjj is probably somewhere between a white and green belt... Some are really good, and some suck badly at takedowns. Most of the older generation bjj blackbelts are also judo blackbelts though
Havis Jr
08-12-2010, 01:34 PM
Aguilar is -270
She is a multiple NAGA winner(I don't know exactly how big that tournament is..?), among other grappling credentials. The commentator in this fight goes through a lot of them they seem pretty impressive. She looks about 27-28 years old.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ooZe1RqcjU
Aguilar is -270
She is a multiple NAGA winner(I don't know exactly how big that tournament is..?), among other grappling credentials. The commentator in this fight goes through a lot of them they seem pretty impressive. She looks about 27-28 years old.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ooZe1RqcjU
Hmm, I don't know much about Alvarez, but have gleaned a bit about her looking at her record.
Aguilar is 8-3, with her 3 losses coming from known-good fighters Lisa Ward (13-5) and Carina Damm (15-3). Her other loss is a majority decision to a fighter that she had stopped twice before. She has several wins via submission. Of her 8 wins, most are against either inexperienced fighters or fighters with so-so records (like the 5-5 giant that she triangled in the vid you posted). However, two of her wins are against Angela Magana (8-4), who happens to be the only person to beat Alvarez.
Alvarez is 5-1, with all wins coming by stoppage (4 submissions, and 1 TKO). Most of her wins are against inexperienced fighters, but she does hold a win against Michelle Waterson (a.k.a. The Karate Hottie), who is 8-3 in MMA.
Due to an experience advantage, better credentials, and wins over more impressive fighters, Aguilar will probably win. But I would be hesitant to take her at the current line, considering Alvarez looks like she could be a serious up-and-comer.
Oh, and for illustrative purposes, here are some pics of Michelle Waterson:
http://www.mmafightgirls.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/michelle-waterson-karate.jpg
http://www.autoinfection.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/michelle-waterson-5.jpg
http://www.mmafightgirls.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/michelle-waterson-ko-2008.jpg
poopoo333
08-12-2010, 03:17 PM
Kind of going out on the limb with this one... 1.9u on Sanchez @-190
So what time does this shit start tonight?
Haven't looked but normally it's 7CST.
So what time does this shit start tonight?
8pm eastern I think
Okay, thanks you two.
Glad it's not like way the fuck late like Strikeforce sometimes is.
So for those picking Sanchez to win, why?
So for those picking Sanchez to win, why?
Because your mom picked Sanchez to win.
Because your mom picked Sanchez to win.
And. . . Could I get a serious reply?
I dunno, I don't really know anything about him.
Fujii: 5u to win 1u
Sanchez: 2u to win 1.15u
This shit's starting in case no one realizes that. . .
That's why you don't listen to these clowns SPX.
Sanchez loses via standing Ref stoppage.
That's why you don't listen to these clowns SPX.
Ha ha.
Well I watched a few fights and Grove didn't look that aggressive in anything I saw. In fact, he looked really slow and sloppy, and gasses hard after the first round.
I figured Sanchez could hang in there through the first round and turn it on in the second.
This shit's starting in case no one realizes that. . .
I didnt realize football started the sametime as this tonight. I'll be watching the NFL tonight and miss (again) Bellator
GL on your bets SPX ::handshake::
I didnt realize football started the sametime as this tonight. I'll be watching the NFL tonight and miss (again) Bellator
GL on your bets SPX ::handshake::
Dude, fuck football.
And thanks. But I'm already down 2u and don't have enough on Fujii to cover it, even if she wins. So it's a losing night.
Yeah who gives a shit about preseason football.
Yeah who gives a shit about preseason football.
I don't give a fuck about ANY kind of football. Never have.
Well shit.
When start off badly, a lot of times the night just stays bad. I hope that's not the case.
Yeah who gives a shit about preseason football.
I do .Its research for the season
And thanks. But I'm already down 2u and don't have enough on Fujii to cover it, even if she wins. So it's a losing night.
sorry man I just turned on bellator and saw sanchez lost. I'm going to try and watch both at the same time now
Yeah who gives a shit about preseason football.
I do .Its research for the season
Fair enough. I don't know enough about football to know wtf is going on anyways. I just yell at the screen.
I don't know what it is about non-UFC events that makes it where I'm apparently just destined to lose. I mean, it's the same fucking sport.
is it me or does Carla look like a troll?
I don't know what it is about non-UFC events that makes it where I'm apparently just destined to lose. I mean, it's the same fucking sport.
Less info and less fights on tape to watch is my guess .I dont bet many fights that arent UFC or SF for those reasons
I dont bet many fights that arent UFC or SF for those reasons
My Strikeforce record is pretty spotty, too. Probably about even with those guys, or possibly slightly on the losing side.
Havis Jr
08-12-2010, 08:37 PM
megumi ain't keeping this fight on the ground...
MMA_scientist
08-12-2010, 08:42 PM
what channel is it on? I cant find it
Well good.
At least it won't be a bankroll apocalypse.
good job SPX.
Carla is a lot better than I figured
what channel is it on? I cant find it
I'm watch it on this channel
http://www.channelsurfing.net/watch-bellator-fighting-championships.html
but I think its on HDnet
good job SPX.
Carla is a lot better than I figured
I heard a lot of Carla hype, so I thought she might be game, and she was. But she doesn't have a lot of experience dealing with submissions and Fujii is an absolute submission master.
I'm tempted to put something on Alvarez for reasons already stated.
Its on foxsports like it has been all year.
good job SPX.
Carla is a lot better than I figured
I heard a lot of Carla hype, so I thought she might be game, and she was. But she doesn't have a lot of experience dealing with submissions and Fujii is an absolute submission master.
she has no submission defense so she couldnt take the fight to the ground like she wanted. Once she learns some submission defense she'll be good
Megu looked monstrous on the ground. Those chained submissions were baller as fuck.
Its on foxsports like it has been all year.
I knew it was on some channel I didnt have
MMA_scientist
08-12-2010, 08:51 PM
ots not on HD netm there are some chickes wallering around in swimsuits on there now
she has no submission defense so she couldnt take the fight to the ground like she wanted. Once she learns some submission defense she'll be good
The over talent at that weight class isn't stellar as it is. I think she'll do well for sure. Apparently one of her wins is over someone who lost a split decision to Zoila Frausto. That says something.
ots not on HD netm there are some chickes wallering around in swimsuits on there now
It's on Internet Streaming.
ots not on HD netm there are some chickes wallering around in swimsuits on there now
How fuckin drunk are you?
MMA_scientist
08-12-2010, 08:54 PM
Its on foxsports like it has been all year.
that's it... but it doesnt air until 10pm here. Gay. They are playing college football from 2008 instead. At least I will get to see the work of the female fedor.
MMA_scientist
08-12-2010, 08:54 PM
[quote="MMA_scientist":6psl88jf]ots not on HD netm there are some chickes wallering around in swimsuits on there now
How fuckin drunk are you?[/quote:6psl88jf]
Why do you ask that? Is it the typos or something else...
[quote="zY|":zt8a8l0q]Its on foxsports like it has been all year.
that's it... but it doesnt air until 10pm here. Gay. They are playing college football from 2008 instead. At least I will get to see the work of the female fedor.[/quote:zt8a8l0q]
10pm ? WTF would it show then?
[quote="MMA_scientist":cjvipxhg]ots not on HD netm there are some chickes wallering around in swimsuits on there now
How fuckin drunk are you?[/quote:cjvipxhg]
::lmao::
MMA_scientist
08-12-2010, 08:56 PM
she has no submission defense so she couldnt take the fight to the ground like she wanted. Once she learns some submission defense she'll be good
The over talent at that weight class isn't stellar as it is. I think she'll do well for sure. Apparently one of her wins is over someone who lost a split decision to Zoila Frausto. That says something.
Zoila sucked at first, but she is good now. She got some TD defense and now she is gonna be a force.
[quote="zY|":1mbr2h7o][quote="MMA_scientist":1mbr2h7o]ots not on HD netm there are some chickes wallering around in swimsuits on there now
How fuckin drunk are you?[/quote:1mbr2h7o]
Why do you ask that? Is it the typos or something else...[/quote:1mbr2h7o]
LOL
The typos.
Why is this fight coming on? Isn't it supposed to be the main event?
Why is this fight coming on? Isn't it supposed to be the main event?
guess not ..
100 units on Goodman by submission at +4000
MMA_scientist
08-12-2010, 08:59 PM
[quote="zY|":30htisoj]Its on foxsports like it has been all year.
that's it... but it doesnt air until 10pm here. Gay. They are playing college football from 2008 instead. At least I will get to see the work of the female fedor.
10pm ? WTF would it show then?[/quote:30htisoj]
they always do that. I don't care, I will DVR it and watch it when I am bored...which I am now. My wife is out having her affair for the week and the kids are sleeping... there is nothing on tv, I am trying to work... but i am notr really into it.
100 units on Goodman by submission at +4000
Let me in on some of that action. . .
MMA_scientist
08-12-2010, 09:01 PM
LOL
The typos.
I am on my laptop. I dont bother to look at what I typed most of the time anyway, so I always have a lot of typos on forums... but it is worse on my laptop
100 units on Goodman by submission at +4000
I guess I lost ......
Good lord what a clobbering
My wife is out having her affair for the week
Lolz wtf ::lmao::
I am on my laptop. I dont bother to look at what I typed most of the time anyway, so I always have a lot of typos on forums... but it is worse on my laptop
I fuck up all kinds of shit due to lack of proofreading. Missing words, fucked up homophones (as zY likes to point out . . . I think he's just happy he knows the word "homophone"), misspellings. . .
Whatever.
That would've been a shitty main event. . .
MMA_scientist
08-12-2010, 09:06 PM
My wife is out having her affair for the week
Lolz wtf ::lmao::
That's what I call it when my wife goes to dinner with her friends. She is hot and I am a fat ass. So it is inevitable.
Who thinks Hector jumps all over Schlemenko like that too?
MMA_scientist
08-12-2010, 09:10 PM
Who thinks Hector jumps all over Schlemenko like that too?
I didn't think Schlemenko would beat Hess. I definitely did not think he would beat Baker. I definitely definitely don't think he can beat Lombard. So that means Schlemenko will take it.
That's what I call it when my wife goes to dinner with her friends. She is hot and I am a fat ass. So it is inevitable.
Got any naked pictures of your wife?
Want some?
[quote="zY|":1xmx3je0]Who thinks Hector jumps all over Schlemenko like that too?
I didn't think Schlemenko would beat Hess. I definitely did not think he would beat Baker. I definitely definitely don't think he can beat Lombard. So that means Schlemenko will take it.[/quote:1xmx3je0]
True. I think Hector is too fast, black, and explosive. He's gonna block the 900 spinning backfists and just wild out on Schlemenko.
MMA_scientist
08-12-2010, 09:15 PM
Russians are impervious to pain though... so I don't know.
Damn, they look like sisters or some shit. . .
^^^ LOL
That's wrong.
Its a line off Mr Baseball .I figured you guys would know that ::handshake::
Russians are impervious to pain though... so I don't know.
I dunno. Fedor might be, but I watched Igor tap out to American knees before.
Its a line off Mr Baseball .I figured you guys would know that ::handshake::
So you've seen fucking Mr. Baseball, some obscure film by Tom Seleck--and not just seen it, but can quote from it--and you haven't seen 90% of the films I bring up in discussion?
MMA_scientist
08-12-2010, 09:19 PM
^^^ LOL
That's wrong.
Its a line off Mr Baseball .I figured you guys would know that ::handshake::
WTF is Mr. Baseball? I don't even know what you are talking about.
MMA_scientist
08-12-2010, 09:20 PM
Its a line off Mr Baseball .I figured you guys would know that ::handshake::
So you've seen fucking Mr. Baseball, some obscure film by Tom Seleck--and not just seen it, but can quote from it--and you haven't seen 90% of the films I bring up in discussion?
ooohh. Ok.
Yeah I concur with SPX here. You need to clean out your VHS collection.
Well I guess Aguilar was worth the line, because she dominated the entire fight.
wish I had dumped on her after losing the Sanchez bet.
So you've seen fucking Mr. Baseball, some obscure film by Tom Seleck--and not just seen it, but can quote from it--and you haven't seen 90% of the films I bring up in discussion?
lol yeah . When I was like 10 or 11 when it came out I thought it was the funniest thing ever and watched it like a 100 times .
ooohh. Ok.
Yeah I concur with SPX here. You need to clean out your VHS collection.
I havent seen it in a good 10-12 years but its one of those movies I watched so much when I was young that I remember lines from it still.Sad I know
Never heard of Mr. Baseball either. Now if you started quoting Major League on the other hand...
MMA_scientist
08-12-2010, 09:26 PM
I am l;ike that with a lot of movies from when I was a kid. I still have Big Touble in Little China almost memorized.
Bank before satellite tv (or even cable) I would tape stuff off tv and watch it over and over
Well shit. -1u. If I had just stuck with the Fujii bet then I'd be ahead but of course I had to go and get greedy.
Well shit. -1u. If I had just stuck with the Fujii bet then I'd be ahead but of course I had to go and get greedy.
Bet on Yves.
Never heard of Mr. Baseball either. Now if you started quoting Major League on the other hand...
How's your wife and my kids?
Just a bit outside .....
::thumbup::
Bet on Yves.
A little late for that. . .
Never heard of Mr. Baseball either. Now if you started quoting Major League on the other hand...
Is very bad to steal Jobu's rum; is very bad
I am l;ike that with a lot of movies from when I was a kid. I still have Big Touble in Little China almost memorized.
Bank before satellite tv (or even cable) I would tape stuff off tv and watch it over and over
Thats what I did too because my parents didnt have cable till I was like 12
I've been hearing that Bellator might not be doing so hot financially. . .
I've been hearing that Bellator might not be doing so hot financially. . .
Did you read some facebook comments or something?
Did you read some facebook comments or something?
Jordan Breen said something about it on the PBP earlier. . .
Did you read some facebook comments or something?
Jordan Breen said something about it on the PBP earlier. . .
Was that on Twitter?
Did you read some facebook comments or something?
Jordan Breen said something about it on the PBP earlier. . .
Shit I forgot Sherdog had a chat thing.
Pretty sure Bellator is privately funded by some rich kids. So maybe they're bored.
But yeah, it's not like they're making any money.
But yeah, it's not like they're making any money.
Why assume that, though? They're actually had a fairly meteoric rise. I wouldn't be surprised if they're making tons of money.
I wouldn't be surprised if they're not either, though.
I just don't see how they can be, given their format.
edman5555
08-12-2010, 09:53 PM
I almost bet on a couple of people that lost tonight. Though I did call Yves and i think he will get the D. I'm usually impressed with that guy,
I just don't see how they can be, given their format.
What do you mean? They're on like 4 channels, they're mat floor is full of sponsors, they have a decent number of big names. . .
If KOTC can be financially viable, I'm not sure why Bellator can't.
I don't care enough to even discuss it.
poopoo333
08-12-2010, 10:41 PM
-1.9u.
bawlz
-1.9u.
bawlz
Fuck you, Eddie Sanchez!
sideloaded
08-12-2010, 11:32 PM
+ .8u
Mr. IWS
08-13-2010, 08:44 AM
had a fairly meteoric rise.
Goldie ::eyerub::
Mr. IWS
08-13-2010, 08:44 AM
Luke used to rock the Mr. Baseball Avatar a couple years ago. ::praise::
Luke used to rock the Mr. Baseball Avatar a couple years ago. ::praise::
::lmao:: I might bring it out again someday
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