View Full Version : UFC 123 - Machida/Rampage
Mr. IWS
08-10-2010, 08:53 AM
I know poopoo posted this but........
MMA Recap (http://www.mmarecap.com) has learned from several sources that the UFC is likely headed back to Chicago for UFC 123. According to sources, a deal has not been finalized mainly due to rules and regulations by the state with regards to how far in advance a promotion can declare an event. Those same sources have indicated that the event will be held at the United Center and will probably be headlined by two light-heavyweight fights: Lyoto Machida versus Quinton Jackson and Jon Jones versus Forrest Griffin.
If the UFC does in deed come back to Chicago for UFC 123 it will be the second time the city has played host to the organization. UFC 90 took place at the Allstate Arena in November of 2008. Unlike the previous trip, the venue is scheduled to be the United Center, which plays home to both the Chicago Bulls and Chicago Blackhawks.
The United Center can house over 23,000 fans when set up for concerts and the UFC will likely exceed that capacity.
The only fights rumored at this point for the event are the Jackson-Machida and Jones-Griffin fights.
Stay tuned to MMA Recap for the latest on this story as it unfolds.
Forrest and Rampage are gonna get raped. Someone need to call da police.
Mr. IWS
08-10-2010, 10:43 AM
Forrest and Rampage are gonna get raped. Someone need to call da police.
Real Life
Anyone think money will actually start coming in on Rampage before the fight? I'm thinking about going ahead and biting the bullet on Machida at -250. I really think he takes this one.
MMA_scientist
08-10-2010, 10:48 AM
I think the line will improve. I actually think Rampage has a good chance. He has some good boxing skills, I don't see why he can't land a shot like Shogun did. I think Machida will win, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Rampage win the exchanges. I think it will be the most boring fight of all time.
Rampage is all but washed up IMO. No desire, and even before the loss of desire he was slowing down. The guy has aged so much it seems in the last 5 years. I seriously doubt he wins any exchanges with machida as he throws the same punches in every exchange. machida will pick him apart.
Shogun was able to time Machida when he came in, i just do not think Rampage will have the ability to do that.
Rampage will not throw kicks, and not go for takedowns, all Machida has to worry about is his slow 3 punch combo he throws all the time...the combo that is usually a few seconds to late these days.
A blessing would be if you could get both Macida and Jones under -300 for a juicy parlay...And I rarely play parlays...this time, I would.
Mr. IWS
08-10-2010, 10:55 AM
Rampage is all but washed up IMO. No desire, and even before the loss of desire he was slowing down. The guy has aged so much it seems in the last 5 years. I seriously doubt he wins any exchanges with machida as he throws the same punches in every exchange. machida will pick him apart.
Shogun was able to time Machida when he came in, i just do not think Rampage will have the ability to do that.
Rampage will not throw kicks, and not go for takedowns, all Machida has to worry about is his slow 3 punch combo he throws all the time...the combo that is usually a few seconds to late these days.
A blessing would be if you could get both Macida and Jones under -300 for a juicy parlay...And I rarely play parlays...this time, I would.
This, this, and this.
Anymore thoughts on the line movement? My concern is that it's actually moved a good bit AWAY from Machida since it opened. It may come back, but it may not.
It is weird, because you would think the line would be somewhat tight with Shogun getting blasted out and all. I just have no clue, but IMO, Machida should be at least -300 or higher.
i am really hoping the jones line is remotely close, as Forrest is an easier matchup for him than his last 3 oppnents whom he murdered.
i am really hoping the jones line is remotely close, as Forrest is an easier matchup for him than his last 3 oppnents whom he murdered.
An easier matchup than Vlad?
I respect Vlad and wouldn't fuck with him on the street, but I think Forrest is probably a step above.
Mr. IWS
08-10-2010, 11:07 AM
I think if there is any movement, it will move towards Machida.
Fuck it, I'm feeling inspired. 2.5u to win 1u on Machida.
Machida will probably win, but Rampage could certainly knock him out. What Rampage does best is block, parry, and counter. If Machida starts to get a bit wild and comes in with his chin out, like he is wont to do, don't be surprised if the piss man goes stiff-legged again.
Realistically though, he's probably not going to take a single risk, throw leg kicks from the outside and lots of feints, and win the most boring 30-27 of all time.
As it pertains to Jones, yes, I think Vlad was a tougher matchup. Forrest might beat Vlad if they fought. But Vlad at least brought a tool to the table that I thought might give Jones trouble. Jones will be faster(way) and stronger than Forrest. And he is not near as durable as Vlad IMO.
Machida will probably win, but Rampage could certainly knock him out. What Rampage does best is block, parry, and counter. If Machida starts to get a bit wild and comes in with his chin out, like he is wont to do, don't be surprised if the piss man goes stiff-legged again.
Realistically though, he's probably not going to take a single risk, throw leg kicks from the outside and lots of feints, and win the most boring 30-27 of all time.
True, but those counters now come when the guy is usually out of the pocket(for a few seconds)
As it pertains to Jones, yes, I think Vlad was a tougher matchup. Forrest might beat Vlad if they fought. But Vlad at least brought a tool to the table that I thought might give Jones trouble. Jones will be faster(way) and stronger than Forrest. And he is not near as durable as Vlad IMO.
What do you think Jones is good up to? And what do you think the line will open at?
I might take him up to -250. He's probably worth more, but Forrest has a way of pulling upsets and I'm always hesitant to bet against that.
BTW, it's time you got a suitable avatar. The little area with your name and shit is a barren, avatarless wasteland. Preferably it will have something to do with a ninja. It's kind of a rule for new guys.
MMA_scientist
08-10-2010, 11:44 AM
I think Vera would give a very good fight to and maybe beat Forrest. I really throught Vera was going to beat Jones. I am done betting against Jones. I am still not betting on him though.
I don't think Rampage is done at all. IMO, he lost his first fight in 5 years against Rashad. He beat Forrest IMO. Ke has some recent KO's... he only looked bad against Forrest and Jardine. Rashad is good, no shame in that loss. But even then, Rashad wanted nothing to do with striking with him. I see it pretty much like Zy, Machida leg kicks him him and leaps in for the occasional punch, but wins a boring decision. I doubt he wants to bang with Rampage like he did with Rashad. If Machida gets into an exchange like that with Rampage, I think Rampage will turn his lights off.
Lets break down Rampages last 5 years. Lackluster performance against Dong Sik Yoon. Split decision with Lindland(some think he lost), lackluster win on eastman. Quick KO of Chuck(was it that spectacular looking back now). Close decision over Dan, and a close lose to Forrest. Quick KO of Wand, and then two horrible performances against Jardine(unbelievable when you think about this) and rashad. So he has looked good three times. He stopped 3 fighters(all have questionable beards) out of 10 or so. And failed to stop a few guys that the old(or younger) Jackson would have stopped.
And yet he is not at least somewhat washed up? i mean we can do the whole subjective argument about this. But for Gods sake, I think everyone can see he has slowed down.
I just do not see him all of a sudden turning it back on for this fight, especially when IMO he has lost his fire.
I also believe that the shot that dropped Machida in the second shogun fight was a temple shot that might have dropped anyone. Can Rampage land it, of course he can. Hell, Hughes landed a money shot on Ricardo, but i am not willing to bet on it.
Mr. IWS
08-10-2010, 02:15 PM
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c256/docobv/joneschampp.jpg
Mr. IWS
08-10-2010, 02:52 PM
That's Rashad.
They all look alike to me.
Thewiseman
08-10-2010, 08:27 PM
Bones is good all the way up to whatever part of your bankroll you feel comfortable betting. Ill take him - whatever.
As it pertains to Jones, yes, I think Vlad was a tougher matchup. Forrest might beat Vlad if they fought. But Vlad at least brought a tool to the table that I thought might give Jones trouble. Jones will be faster(way) and stronger than Forrest. And he is not near as durable as Vlad IMO.
What do you think Jones is good up to? And what do you think the line will open at?
I might take him up to -250. He's probably worth more, but Forrest has a way of pulling upsets and I'm always hesitant to bet against that.
BTW, it's time you got a suitable avatar. The little area with your name and shit is a barren, avatarless wasteland. Preferably it will have something to do with a ninja. It's kind of a rule for new guys.
I never had to put a ninja up...
[
I never had to put a ninja up...
Nor have I
I never had to put a ninja up...
I think you came during the lull in ninja action. There was a time when almost all of us had ninja avatars. Luke was the only asshole who refused to do it.
MMA_scientist
08-10-2010, 10:00 PM
I was a loyal ninja AV supporter... I think a ninja AV is kind of a must for sucess in wagering.
Lets break down Rampages last 5 years. Lackluster performance against Dong Sik Yoon. Split decision with Lindland(some think he lost), lackluster win on eastman. Quick KO of Chuck(was it that spectacular looking back now). Close decision over Dan, and a close lose to Forrest. Quick KO of Wand, and then two horrible performances against Jardine(unbelievable when you think about this) and rashad. So he has looked good three times. He stopped 3 fighters(all have questionable beards) out of 10 or so. And failed to stop a few guys that the old(or younger) Jackson would have stopped.
And yet he is not at least somewhat washed up? i mean we can do the whole subjective argument about this. But for Gods sake, I think everyone can see he has slowed down.
I just do not see him all of a sudden turning it back on for this fight, especially when IMO he has lost his fire.
I also believe that the shot that dropped Machida in the second shogun fight was a temple shot that might have dropped anyone. Can Rampage land it, of course he can. Hell, Hughes landed a money shot on Ricardo, but i am not willing to bet on it.
Clearly when Rampage is without distraction and can really get fired up about who he's fighting he wrecks guys. Also, lets not act like a guy who's only career knockout losses are to Cro Cop, Rampage, and Dan Henderson has a weak chin all of a sudden. Rampage has definitely lost the fire and his biggest problem has always been motivation to get into the gym, as well as a lack of work ethic. The smart money will be on Machida but depending on the odds Rampage may be the "right side". We don't know if Machida will come out gunshy after suffering his first loss by horrific knockout only to find himself across from a man who has made a career out of brutalizing people with his hands.
I was a loyal ninja AV supporter... I think a ninja AV is kind of a must for sucess in wagering.
Then explain SPX's recent woes(excluding the Anderson Silva parlay).
Then explain SPX's recent woes(excluding the Anderson Silva parlay).
Nigga, you must have me confused with someone else.
I was a loyal ninja AV supporter... I think a ninja AV is kind of a must for sucess in wagering.
Then explain SPX's recent woes(excluding the Anderson Silva parlay).
that is Zak ::handshake::
. There was a time when almost all of us had ninja avatars. Luke was the only asshole who refused to do it.
::lmao::
I've still got a ninja avatar.
Then explain SPX's recent woes(excluding the Anderson Silva parlay).
Nigga, you must have me confused with someone else.
Oh, Well it was one of you mild mannered motherfuckers who was saying he was considering not betting MMA anymore because of his recent troubles with it.
Oh, Well it was one of you mild mannered motherfuckers who was saying he was considering not betting MMA anymore because of his recent troubles with it.
I actually just broke past a barrier I've been working to get past for months and am more ahead now than I ever have been since I started betting over a year ago.
Oh, Well it was one of you mild mannered motherfuckers who was saying he was considering not betting MMA anymore because of his recent troubles with it.
I actually just broke past a barrier I've been working to get past for months and am more ahead now than I ever have been since I started betting over a year ago.
I don't think Matt Serra is gonna get any taller, dude.
I don't think Matt Serra is gonna get any taller, dude.
What the fuck?
you said you broke past a barrier. Doesn't matter how much research you do he's still going to look like an albino smurf who can't open a jar of sauce.
you said you broke past a barrier. Doesn't matter how much research you do he's still going to look like an albino smurf who can't open a jar of sauce.
Yeah. . .
That's true. . .
He doesn't look concerned, though. . .
http://www.mmabay.co.uk/img/matt%20serra%20ufc%20belt.jpg
Oh, Well it was one of you mild mannered motherfuckers who was saying he was considering not betting MMA anymore because of his recent troubles with it.
I actually just broke past a barrier I've been working to get past for months and am more ahead now than I ever have been since I started betting over a year ago.
I don't think Matt Serra is gonna get any taller, dude.
damn, ript
poopoo333
08-18-2010, 02:34 PM
Young lion Rory MacDonald (10-1 MMA, 1-1 UFC) looks to bounce back from disappointment when he meets Matt Brown (13-9 MMA, 4-3 UFC) at UFC 123.
Young lion Rory MacDonald (10-1 MMA, 1-1 UFC) looks to bounce back from disappointment when he meets Matt Brown (13-9 MMA, 4-3 UFC) at UFC 123.
Poor Matt Brown. I guess he'll get cut after this.
UFC 123: Machida vs. Jackson" a "Done Deal" for Detroit on November 20th
Seriously? Detroit?
Maybe the Free World will show up.
Mr. IWS
09-01-2010, 02:18 PM
Maybe the Free World will show up.
Likity Split doin a bid, he wont be at da show.
poopoo333
09-01-2010, 03:01 PM
I am pretty sure Jones/Forrest is not happening by the way. Apparently Jones gets the winner of Bader/Little Nog.
But who else is out there for Forrest?
But who else is out there for Forrest?
Franklin. . .?
poopoo333
09-01-2010, 03:07 PM
But who else is out there for Forrest?
Franklin. . .?
Good point, that will probably happen. But then who's next for Randy?!
But who else is out there for Forrest?
Franklin. . .?
Good point, that will probably happen. But then who's next for Randy?!
Tito.
Couture-Franklin
Forrest-Thiago Silva maybe?
Karo Parisyan to Return to the UFC and Face Dennis Hallman at UFC 123
http://sbnation.com/e/1429687
poopoo333
09-02-2010, 02:23 PM
Karo Parisyan to Return to the UFC and Face Dennis Hallman at UFC 123
http://sbnation.com/e/1429687
Awesome.
Odds on if he shows up or not?
So did he actually pay his commission fine or what?
MMA_scientist
09-02-2010, 03:31 PM
Damn. Karo is one my favorite fighters... really glad to see him back. Unfortunately, I don't think he is gonna do too hot against the current stable of WW's.
So did he actually pay his commission fine or what?
This shit is in Detroit, fool.
I heard Karo just went to the commission and said "FUCK FREE WORLD!! THREE ONE THREE!!"
poopoo333
09-04-2010, 06:54 PM
http://mmajunkie.com/news/20540/tim-boe ... fc-123.mma (http://mmajunkie.com/news/20540/tim-boetsch-vs-phil-davis-tapped-for-ufc-123.mma)
Tim Boetsch (12-3 MMA, 3-2 UFC) and Phil Davis (7-0 MMA, 3-0 UFC) are bound for Motor City.
http://mmajunkie.com/news/20540/tim-boetsch-vs-phil-davis-tapped-for-ufc-123.mma
Tim Boetsch (12-3 MMA, 3-2 UFC) and Phil Davis (7-0 MMA, 3-0 UFC) are bound for Motor City.
nice
doublearmbar
09-04-2010, 10:20 PM
Boetsch is gonna get worked.
Mr. IWS
09-04-2010, 10:22 PM
Boetsch is gonna get worked.
Bones -400 at least
poopoo333
09-04-2010, 10:26 PM
Boetsch is gonna get worked.
Bones -400 at least
Stop mixing up tall, athletic, black fighters.
Mr. IWS
09-04-2010, 10:28 PM
Stop mixing up tall, athletic, black fighters.
Haha, make that Davis -400.
They all look alike to me.
Yeah sounds like another unbettable fight for me. Davis will win, but he's not a lock and the line is going to be too high.
Gabe Ruediger vs. Paul Kelly on tap for UFC 123
http://ht.ly/2AOdw
Damn, I thought it would be one and done for ol' Gabe. Lauzon straight embarassed that nigga.
Joe Lauzon vs. George Sotiropoulos Slated for UFC 123 -
http://5thRound.com/qeh
George my murder
Joe Lauzon vs. George Sotiropoulos Slated for UFC 123 -
http://5thRound.com/qeh
George my murder
Agreed. Wonder what the line will be.
Joe Lauzon vs. George Sotiropoulos Slated for UFC 123 -
http://5thRound.com/qeh
George my murder
Agreed. Wonder what the line will be.
probably -300
probably -300
Would you bet him at that line?
probably -300
Would you bet him at that line?
Probably not . -250 would probably be my limit
Mr. IWS
09-08-2010, 03:18 PM
Joe Lauzon vs. George Sotiropoulos Slated for UFC 123 -
http://5thRound.com/qeh
George my murder
Really? My first reaction was J-Lau.
Told you queers he wouldn't be fighting Kenny or BJ.
Joe Lauzon vs. George Sotiropoulos Slated for UFC 123 -
http://5thRound.com/qeh
George my murder
Really? My first reaction was J-Lau.
Well I hope more people think that .I'd geta great line on George . Personally I dont think Lauzon stands much of a chance
Nik Lentz vs. Tyson Griffin Set for UFC 123
http://sbnation.com/e/1441718
^^^ That should be where Griffin gets his groove back.
Darren Elkins vs. newcomer Edson Barboza planned for UFC 123 event
http://bit.ly/dlPMTU
edman5555
09-09-2010, 09:33 PM
^^^ That should be where Griffin gets his groove back.
tyson griffin wins that shit. Kills him. No way lentz wins that.
Havis Jr
09-10-2010, 12:28 PM
I could see lentz wall n stalling griffin. Griffen's wrestling is actually pretty bad for the ufc lw division now that there are so many amazing wrestlers.
Does anyone think Rampage has a shot?? I mean this is stylistically a matchup he does well with.
Does anyone think Rampage has a shot?? I mean this is stylistically a matchup he does well with.
What?
Does anyone think Rampage has a shot?? I mean this is stylistically a matchup he does well with.
What?
Since when does Rampage do well against pure counter strikers who can attack from anywhere and are very elusive with great takedown defense? Rampage has become almost a pure counter striker himself now, but he is flat footed and his striking comes only in his hands. This is going to look like a repeat of Machida/Ortiz in My opinion.
Since when does Rampage do well against pure counter strikers who can attack from anywhere and are very elusive with great takedown defense? Rampage has become almost a pure counter striker himself now, but he is flat footed and his striking comes only in his hands. This is going to look like a repeat of Machida/Ortiz in My opinion.
And yet you said that "stylistically this is a match he does well with," so I'm confused.
I never said that, Havis did.
Mr. IWS
09-10-2010, 01:20 PM
Does anyone think Rampage has a shot?? I mean this is stylistically a matchup he does well with.
I dont. I think this is a terrible matchup for him.
I never said that, Havis did.
Oh, sorry, wasn't paying attention.
Well I agree with everything you said, then.
FWIW, Rashad thinks Rampage is going to win.
MMAValor: Finally your prediction for the Lyoto vs Rampage fight?
R.E.: I think Lyoto has all the tools to definitely beat Rampage but for some reason, I don’t know, I got a feeling that Rampage is going to win this fight. I say that because there’s something in Rampage’s style that is one of his strengths and there is something into Lyoto’s style that is his biggest weakness that goes right into Rampage’s strength. Lyoto disengages, he always pulls back and Rampage is very quick to react, so Lyoto throws a punch Rampage catches, he reacts and Lyoto always pulls back and I think he may get caught. If Rampage comes to this fight in very good shape, I think he has a really good chance in this fight.
http://mmavalor.unfilteredmma.com/2010/ ... rove-game/ (http://mmavalor.unfilteredmma.com/2010/09/10/interview-rashad-evans-using-time-off-to-improve-game/)
Then again, he also says in the same interview that he's going to knock Shogun out.
Rashad is still just pissed that Lyoto knocked him out.
Svino
09-10-2010, 04:32 PM
[quote="Havis Jr":29b63yz9]
Does anyone think Rampage has a shot?? I mean this is stylistically a matchup he does well with.
I dont. I think this is a terrible matchup for him.[/quote:29b63yz9]
I agree. I will probably bet Lyoto.
I've already taken Lyoto @ -250.
poopoo333
09-13-2010, 10:54 PM
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/9/13/16 ... -fight-for (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/9/13/1687018/matt-hughes-targets-a-fight-for)
BJ Penn vs Matt Hughes 3!!!
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/9/13/1687018/matt-hughes-targets-a-fight-for
BJ Penn vs Matt Hughes 3!!!
Was coming here to post that.
Unexpected, to say the least.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/9/13/1687018/matt-hughes-targets-a-fight-for
BJ Penn vs Matt Hughes 3!!!
seriously?
Why?
Why does this match need to be made?
poopoo333
09-13-2010, 11:04 PM
seriously?
Why?
Why does this match need to be made?
Dana White got bored and decided to do it.
It just seems dumb to me . You got Penn who just lost twice who needs to get a win so he doesnt need this match up ,then you got Hughes you just got a nice win and with a couple more could get a title shot
I just dont see the positive side of the match up
poopoo333
09-13-2010, 11:32 PM
I would rather see Matt Hughes keep winning and BJ Penn get a win, so yeah I don't like this fight. I guess BJ is going to go the Matt Hughes/Randy Couture route and take "interesting fights".
You know what is interesting to me? BJ Penn vs Thiago Alves.... I would love to see this.
I can think of much more interesting matchups .These two come to mind
Hughes-Alves II
Penn-Gomi II
Hughes Alves 2 is not interesting at all.
Give me Gomi/Penn 2 though, I'm all about that.
Mr. IWS
09-14-2010, 08:31 AM
I would rather Penn/Gomi and Hughes/Hallman. Then Penn/Hughes, provided they both win.
meh
poopoo333
09-14-2010, 03:17 PM
Maiquel Falcao vs. Gerald Harris in the works for UFC 123 in November
http://mmajunkie.com/news/20638/maiquel ... vember.mma (http://mmajunkie.com/news/20638/maiquel-falcao-vs-gerald-harris-in-the-works-for-ufc-123-in-november.mma)
http://www.bestfightodds.com/fights/3159.png
http://www.bestfightodds.com/fights/3159.png
LOL, that line should be reversed.
http://www.bestfightodds.com/fights/3159.png
LOL, that line should be reversed.
Why because Penn has looked so good lately ? Or is it because he's looked so good against 170 pounders in the past?
http://www.bestfightodds.com/fights/3159.png
LOL, that line should be reversed.
Why because Penn has looked so good lately ? Or is it because he's looked so good against 170 pounders in the past?
OK Smarty...just watch the line. No way this line stays here. Hughes gets a lucky shot in his last fight and he is all of a sudden back. BJ loses 2 to a turbo charged Edgar, and he is all of a sudden done. And yes, Penn looked fine against Hughes last time, in fact he was owning him. And he looked a hell of alot better against GSP then Hughes did the last 2 times they met.
How do you see Hughes taking this THREE round fight? Is he gonna outbox him? Is he going to take him down, and pound away on him(something he could not do last time out).
^^^^ He beat Penn in 3 rounds last time they fought
^^^^ He beat Penn in 3 rounds last time they fought
LOL! I guess BJ getting injured just had nothing to do with it. Go ahead, make your big Hughes play in the hopes that it happens again.
Is he going to take him down, and pound away on him(something he could not do last time out).
Did you not see the last Penn-Hughes fight?
::lolzorz:: Hughes didnt pound Penn out in the last fight
Were you all over Serra in his rematch with GSP. I mean, hell, he did beat the shit out of GSP. I mean, who cares that he got a huge lucky shot to the back of his neck.
I mean, heck, as cappers, we should not take things like that into consideration...we should just look at who wins and who loses, not how the fights actually go down.
LOL! I guess BJ getting injured just had nothing to do with it. Go ahead, make your big Hughes play in the hopes that it happens again.
BJ always has an excuse when he loses. Always
Is he going to take him down, and pound away on him(something he could not do last time out).
Did you not see the last Penn-Hughes fight?
::lolzorz:: Hughes didnt pound Penn out in the last fight
Go back and read my earlier post.
LOL! I guess BJ getting injured just had nothing to do with it. Go ahead, make your big Hughes play in the hopes that it happens again.
BJ always has an excuse when he loses. Always
But this time he had the X-rays.
And if you could not see that he was injured at the end of round two, you are blind. Or just trying to win an argument.
Well Luke, I am pretty sure you will have a chance to bet Hughes @ + money eventually. But I doubt you will. Just looking for an argument probably.
You said Penn was going to make a statement against Edgar in his last fight. He made a statement alright, he got his ass beat.
Just say it: you are a Penn nuthugger
Well Luke, I am pretty sure you will have a chance to bet Hughes @ + money eventually. But I doubt you will. Just looking for an argument probably.
I'm sure the Penn nuthugger patrol will push this line down.
I'd be thrilled to take Hughes as a dog ::thumbup::
You said Penn was going to make a statement against Edgar in his last fight. He made a statement alright, he got his ass beat.
Just say it: you are a Penn nuthugger
Very well could have said that. Man you must really read my shit deep. Good, it will more than likely improve your bets.And it is all about us making money. But bottom line, I made no bet on it. I am actually pretty far from a Penn nut hugger.
Actually, it kinda looks like quite a few people believe Hughes is the right side of this fight.
Shit, If I can get Penn @ + money in Vegas, I will more than likely drop a couple of grand on him.
doublearmbar
09-14-2010, 06:36 PM
Actually, it kinda looks like quite a few people believe Hughes is the right side of this fight.
Shit, If I can get Penn @ + money in Vegas, I will more than likely drop a couple of grand on him.
No one cares how much you "drop". You will still lose.
Actually, it kinda looks like quite a few people believe Hughes is the right side of this fight.
Shit, If I can get Penn @ + money in Vegas, I will more than likely drop a couple of grand on him.
Well I'm not betting Hughes at -165 .If he's a dog I sure will . I was only arguing that the line should be flipped . Personally I would have made this fight close to a pk
Very well could have said that. Man you must really read my shit deep. Good, it will more than likely improve your bets.And it is all about us making money. But bottom line, I made no bet on it. I am actually pretty far from a Penn nut hugger.
I just remember everyone saying Penn was going to win and I was the only one on Edgar
Very well could have said that. Man you must really read my shit deep. Good, it will more than likely improve your bets.And it is all about us making money. But bottom line, I made no bet on it. I am actually pretty far from a Penn nut hugger.
I just remember everyone saying Penn was going to win and I was the only one on Edgar
But you quoted me? At least I think you did.
Actually, it kinda looks like quite a few people believe Hughes is the right side of this fight.
Shit, If I can get Penn @ + money in Vegas, I will more than likely drop a couple of grand on him.
No one cares how much you "drop". You will still lose.
Shit coming from you. Now I will double my bet. Damn, Penn is now officially a lock.
But you quoted me? At least I think you did.
Maybe I did. I thought you bet Penn because you were so confident in him
Actually, it kinda looks like quite a few people believe Hughes is the right side of this fight.
Shit, If I can get Penn @ + money in Vegas, I will more than likely drop a couple of grand on him.
Well I'm not betting Hughes at -165 .If he's a dog I sure will . I was only arguing that the line should be flipped . Personally I would have made this fight close to a pk
Wait, so you actually kind of agree with my post that you slammed?
But you quoted me? At least I think you did.
Maybe I did. I thought you bet Penn because you were so confident in him
HHHMMMM? Dude, you might have me confused with someone else. I post all my plays in here, and Penn was not even on my radar.
In fact, i remember telling someone in here that was going to bet Penn(probably Doublearmbar) that he might as well bet Couture if he was going to bet that big a fave.
But I will freely admit, I did think Penn was going to win the fight. and I was wrong. And missed a very good dog bet in Edgar.
But you quoted me? At least I think you did.
Maybe I did. I thought you bet Penn because you were so confident in him
HHHMMMM? Dude, you might have me confused with someone else. I post all my plays in here, and Penn was not even on my radar.
Ok no big deal I could have mistaken that ::handshake::
[
Maybe I did. I thought you bet Penn because you were so confident in him[/quote]
HHHMMMM? Dude, you might have me confused with someone else. I post all my plays in here, and Penn was not even on my radar.[/quote]
Ok no big deal I could have mistaken that ::handshake::[/quote]
At the same time, you could very well be right about me having a post picking Penn to win. I really thought he would. Actually pretty pissed I did not at least make a small bet on Edgar.
This bullshit 'rib injury' excuse is so stupid. I don't understand how people justify it so the loss 'doesn't count' in their eyes.
Matt Hughes is a very strong man and if you end up underneath him, you just might injure yourself trying to grapple with him.
It's no different than if you were to discount Shogun's win over Rampage because of the 'rib injury' that occurred when Shogun smashed Rampage's ribs in with a knee.
That said, I think Penn has the tools to win definitely, but as we've seen time and time again, that doesn't always equate to a win. Penn's record at WW is an abysmal 2-3. This fight should be a pick em I think and I'd definitely bet Penn as a dog if this fight weren't 6 years from now.
I assume you're talking about the 2nd fight Luke, I know you weren't on Edgar the first time.
At first glance, I really thought this line was just WAY off. But now kinda looking around the net. It really does seem like many are picking Hughes. I must admit, it really does surprise me. Maybe I am missing something. But if the line stays, I just will not be able to pass it up.
This line sorta reminds me of the Hughes-GSP 2 line. Where Hughes was about -140 or -130 simply because he beat GSP in their first fight. Never mind the fact that Hughes was showing signs of slowing, and GSP was on a tear.
Maybe Penn is slowing to, BUT, I really think Edgar could make anyone look slow. I think Hughes has gotten a bit lucky in his last couple of fights, and Penn ran into a bad match up. I think Penn will make Hughes look very slow in there.
This bullshit 'rib injury' excuse is so stupid. I don't understand how people justify it so the loss 'doesn't count' in their eyes.
Matt Hughes is a very strong man and if you end up underneath him, you just might injure yourself trying to grapple with him.
It's no different than if you were to discount Shogun's win over Rampage because of the 'rib injury' that occurred when Shogun smashed Rampage's ribs in with a knee.
That said, I think Penn has the tools to win definitely, but as we've seen time and time again, that doesn't always equate to a win. Penn's record at WW is an abysmal 2-3. This fight should be a pick em I think and I'd definitely bet Penn as a dog if this fight weren't 6 years from now.
I am not using it as an excuse...i am just taking it into consideration. If you watch the fight. Penn injured his rib taking Hughes back from gaurd. It is not a situation where hughes blasted him with a body shot or knee.
I do not take away the victory, but i factor in the way the fight went down in my bet.
Whos WW record would be better if they fought GSP twice, and Hughes(prime and semi-prime) twice?
I assume you're talking about the 2nd fight Luke, I know you weren't on Edgar the first time.
Correct .I bet Edgar the second fight
I just think Penn is going to have a real hard time winning this. Watching Edgar( who is smaller than Penn) take him down over and over with ease makes me believe Hughes will be able too also.
I just think Penn is going to have a real hard time winning this. Watching Edgar( who is smaller than Penn) take him down over and over with ease makes me believe Hughes will be able too also.
But Edgar was able to take Penn down because he mixed his strikes up with his takedowns. Something Hughes can not do.
It's going to be a tough fight for both guys. Hughes will struggle with the striking and takedown defense of Penn, then once he gets it down he has to worry about the guard of Penn. Penn will have to worry about the wrestling and sheer physicality of Hughes wearing on him. Ya know, the same dynamic of the last fight. We saw how that went.
And yes, BJ injured his rib taking Hughes back from the octopus guard. It's something to think about sure, but it's also something that could happen again. If he's on his back Penn is going to have create something in order to be able to get up and it might require amounts of core strength that he does not possess.
poopoo333
09-14-2010, 09:02 PM
I just remember everyone saying Penn was going to win and I was the only one on Edgar
I was on Edgar in the 2nd fight. I actually thought he was going to win too, but I fell for the "motivated BJ" hype machine and didn't lay much down at all.
poopoo333
09-14-2010, 09:55 PM
Mark Munoz meets Aaron Simpson in a middleweight bout at UFC 123 in Detroit, according to MMA Weekly.
Mark Munoz meets Aaron Simpson in a middleweight bout at UFC 123 in Detroit, according to MMA Weekly.
That's gonna be an interesting fight.
poopoo333
09-17-2010, 11:18 AM
Hughes opened as the underdog on 5dimes.
Munoz will beat his ass
I think it will be pretty close, but gun to my head, I'd pick Munoz.
Karo and Hallman
A welterweight bout between returning Karo Parisyan (19-5 MMA, 9-3 UFC) and Dennis Hallman (41-13-2 MMA, 1-4 UFC) and a middleweight fight between Gerald Harris (17-2 MMA, 3-0 UFC) and newcomer Maiquel Falcao (25-3 MMA, 0-0 UFC) are both official for UFC 123.
UFC 123 takes place Nov. 20 at The Palace of Auburn Hills in suburban Detroit. A light-heavyweight bout between former champs Quinton "Rampage" Jackson and Lyoto Machida headlines the pay-per-view portion of the show.
It's not known if Parisyan vs. Hallman and Harris vs. Falcao will get main-card or preliminary-card placement.
MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com (http://www.mmajunkie.com)) recently passed along news of both bouts.
UFC president Dana White recently said Parisyan never again would fight in the octagon when the Armenian-American fighter withdrew from a scheduled matchup with submission specialist Dustin Hazelett this past November. It was the second last-minute withdrawal for Parisyan, who also bowed out of a fight against Yoshiyuki Yoshida at UFC 88 with a back injury.
But the Los Angeles native did not give up on a return. He campaigned publicly for another shot in the UFC following a second-round victory over Ben Mortimer at a recent Impact FC event. He's now 4-1 (with one no-contest) in his past six fights.
His upcoming opponent, Hallman, returns to action after a key victory over Ben Saunders at UFC 117. A significant underdog, the Northwest veteran used his significant advantage on the mat to cruise ahead on the judges' scorecards for a unanimous-decision victory. The win, which followed a heart-breaking late-fight knockout loss to John Howard at the The Ultimate Fighter 10 Finale, likely saved his UFC career.
Meanwhile, Falcao, a Chute Boxe product, brings an impressive record to the octagon that includes a stunning total of 24 finishes among his 25 career wins. Among those stoppages, 21 have come via knockout. "Big Rig," who has fought just once in 2010, has finished his past seven opponents in the first round, and his lone career decision came in 2004.
Harris brings his own 10-fight win streak to the cage. A cast member on "The Ultimate Fighter 7," Harris was released by the promotion following his appearance but returned to the UFC in January and has since earned three-straight knockout victories over the likes of John Salter, Mario Miranda and Dave Branch.
Thewiseman
09-18-2010, 11:28 AM
Very well could have said that. Man you must really read my shit deep. Good, it will more than likely improve your bets.And it is all about us making money. But bottom line, I made no bet on it. I am actually pretty far from a Penn nut hugger.
I just remember everyone saying Penn was going to win and I was the only one on Edgar
I was on edgar in both fights.
I've been meaning to write about this match up since it was announced. Initially I took it as a clear indicator that the UFC was giving up on B.J. as a factor in the light weight division and consigning him to the "senior circuit". But this MMA Junkie interview with Penn shows it wasn't quite that simple:
"I talked to Dana, and they tried to put me in the ring with Florian, (and) Dana said Florian was hurt," said Penn, who submitted Florian in 2009 to defend the belt. "[Dana] said, 'What do you think about Hughes?' I said, 'Matt Hughes?' I got chicken skin all over my body. I said, 'Tell him I'm coming. Tell him, let's go.'"
After suffering back-to-back defeats, Penn said he had more sense than to request a fight with a UFC Hall of Famer who fights at a heavier weight class - especially one who's climbed back into title contention with a string of wins over Matt Serra, Renzo Gracie and Ricardo Almeida. But with the opportunity to fight again quickly, and with Hughes on board, he simply couldn't pass it up.
"I'm more respectful than that to lose two fights in a row and say, 'OK, give me Matt Hughes,'" Penn said. "They offered me that fight. Matt was really excited about the fight. Dana called me and said, 'We offered Matt the fight. He's going to put everything on hold to take the fight if you want it.' And I said, 'I've got nothing else better to do. Let's do this.'
Hughes vs Penn is a great way to keep both fighters busy, entertain the fans, and make money for the UFC while the lightweight picture clarifies. If Frankie Edgar beats Gray Maynard and appears to be starting a long-term title reign than B.J. will be in the dreaded Rich Franklin zone.
After Franklin lost twice to MW champ Anderson Silva, the UFC pushed him up to the 205lb division, although they also gave him a string of fights with more relevance to the MW division than the LHW: Dan Henderson, Wanderlei Silva, Vitor Belfort. So even though they said they wanted to keep Rich Franklin from being a MW gatekeeper and moved him up to 205lbs, they used him that way anyway.
Unlike company man Franklin, the mercurial Penn is not someone to be relied on to tow the company line. The independently wealthy Penn is only going to take fights that appeal to his interests.
If Gray Maynard beats Edgar, then regardless of the outcome of his welterweight fight with Matt Hughes, they can set up a rematch between Kenny Florian and B.J. to see which fighter will re-emerge as an immediate factor in the LW division.
In the meantime, they've beefed up UFC 123 with a very strong co-headliner that should also be a great fight.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/9/20/16 ... hting-matt (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/9/20/1699880/why-b-j-penn-is-fighting-matt)
You need to put a 'Kid Nate' alert when you post Bloody Elbow articles. That guy is such a drama queen.
Anyone even want to venture a guess to the Jones-Forrest fight. I mean will it even be remotely bettable.
Maybe a Bones-Machida parlay. Not the biggest fan of parlays, but I really want to find a way to bet Machida here.
HHHMMM. Maybe Machida-Penn parlay.
poopoo333
10-08-2010, 07:51 PM
Anyone even want to venture a guess to the Jones-Forrest fight. I mean will it even be remotely bettable.
Maybe a Bones-Machida parlay. Not the biggest fan of parlays, but I really want to find a way to bet Machida here.
Jones/forrest is not happening. Jones/bader and griffin/franklin are set up.
Anyone even want to venture a guess to the Jones-Forrest fight. I mean will it even be remotely bettable.
Maybe a Bones-Machida parlay. Not the biggest fan of parlays, but I really want to find a way to bet Machida here.
How about Machida 2.5 units to win 1?
I personally think parlays are a bad idea unless used in boxings
Svino
10-08-2010, 11:58 PM
I personally think parlays are a bad idea unless used in boxings
What makes the difference in boxing? Longer odds?
poopoo333
10-09-2010, 12:01 AM
I don't know...but I just think Machida @-250 is a steal. I think Machida is going to make Rampage look like an idiot.
edman5555
10-09-2010, 01:43 AM
Machida by decision...
http://www.bestfightodds.com/fights/3164.png
http://www.bestfightodds.com/fights/3121.png
Aaron Simpson might be good at that price.
Mr. IWS
10-13-2010, 04:11 PM
Ill parlay Davis with someone, not sure yet who that is.
MMA_scientist
10-13-2010, 04:29 PM
Phil Davis is going in the locks parlay until they match him with a top 10 guy.
Svino
10-13-2010, 07:06 PM
Phil Davis is going in the locks parlay until they match him with a top 10 guy.
I might bet him, too. I have to admit I can't recall the fights right now, but with losses to Brilz, Hamill, and Matyushenko, it doesn't look like Boetsch has what it takes to stop a solid wrestler.
poopoo333
10-17-2010, 10:33 PM
New odds
http://www.bestfightodds.com/events/317.png (http://www.bestfightodds.com)
Fuck I'm tempted to take Hughes. But I don't know if we are going to see a glimpse of the old BJ Penn or just this old BJ Penn. Lauzon is a live dog though.
Ill parlay Davis with someone, not sure yet who that is.
Why not do a black power parlay with Harris?
poopoo333
10-17-2010, 11:53 PM
Fuck I'm tempted to take Hughes. But I don't know if we are going to see a glimpse of the old BJ Penn or just this old BJ Penn. Lauzon is a live dog though.
There is no old BJ. There is no new BJ. There is just BJ.
Svino
10-18-2010, 12:00 AM
I'm tempted to bet Sotiropoulos, and I'm waiting to see if the Hughes line goes up any further. I'd probably take him at +150.
Fuck I'm tempted to take Hughes. But I don't know if we are going to see a glimpse of the old BJ Penn or just this old BJ Penn. Lauzon is a live dog though.
There is no old BJ. There is no new BJ. There is just BJ.
What I meant was there is a difference between the BJ who we just witnessed get fighting old in two fights and the BJ who choked Matt out once upon a time. I'll be staying away from this one until I see where BJ's head and heart are really at come fight night.
I'm tempted to bet Sotiropoulos, and I'm waiting to see if the Hughes line goes up any further. I'd probably take him at +150.
I agree -200 might be good on Sotiropoulos as long as it doesnt go up. I figured the line would be -300
What I meant was there is a difference between the BJ who we just witnessed get fighting old in two fights and the BJ who choked Matt out once upon a time. I'll be staying away from this one until I see where BJ's head and heart are really at come fight night.
You could definitely argue that maybe Edgar was just too much and that the same Edgar would've beat BJ at any point in his career. After all, BJ looked as good as he ever has in the last couple of fights he had before he ran up against the little engine that could.
I mean, did Lyoto "get old" as soon as he fought Shogun?
poopoo333
10-18-2010, 12:18 AM
What I meant was there is a difference between the BJ who we just witnessed get fighting old in two fights and the BJ who choked Matt out once upon a time. I'll be staying away from this one until I see where BJ's head and heart are really at come fight night.
You could definitely argue that maybe Edgar was just too much and that the same Edgar would've beat BJ at any point in his career. After all, BJ looked as good as he ever has in the last couple of fights he had before he ran up against the little engine that could.
I mean, did Lyoto "get old" as soon as he fought Shogun?
This is what I think. I think Edgar is BJ's kryptonite, just like submission defense is Pulver's kryptonite. ::popcorn::
. . . just like submission defense is Pulver's kryptonite. ::popcorn::
C'mon. . .
poopoo333
10-18-2010, 12:23 AM
. . . just like submission defense is Pulver's kryptonite. ::popcorn::
C'mon. . .
Fuck bro, I am sorry. I meant "just like punches to the face are Jardine's kryptonite". My bad bro.
Fuck bro, I am sorry. I meant "just like punches to the face are Jardine's kryptonite". My bad bro.
PP wants the banhammer. . .
poopoo333
10-18-2010, 12:33 AM
Fuck bro, I am sorry. I meant "just like punches to the face are Jardine's kryptonite". My bad bro.
PP wants the banhammer. . .
Who is "PP"?
Fuck bro, I am sorry. I meant "just like punches to the face are Jardine's kryptonite". My bad bro.
PP wants the banhammer. . .
nigga you know where its at lol
Who is "PP"?
Just a little punk ass bitch. . .
If you see him let me know. . .
nigga you know where its at lol
LOL. I'm gonna keep it close by . . . just in case. . .
poopoo333
10-26-2010, 05:35 PM
[youtube:1fyh4rji]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT2y3RbpLFs[/youtube:1fyh4rji]
Rampage is in it for the paycheck. Just watch his body language, when asked about Machida he gives the "I know I am going to lose this fight" vibe.
Mr. IWS
10-26-2010, 05:51 PM
I will be all over Lachida.
poopoo333
10-26-2010, 05:53 PM
I will be all over Lachida.
Me too, I am just unsure of where the line is going to go. After the countdown show, people may jump on Rampage once he acts like a crazy guy on TV (this seemed to happen after the UFC 114 Primetime show)
Mr. IWS
10-26-2010, 05:54 PM
Any word if Rampage is still on the Dolce Diet?
YoungTRK484
10-26-2010, 05:59 PM
[youtube:3qakybna]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT2y3RbpLFs[/youtube:3qakybna]
Rampage is in it for the paycheck. Just watch his body language, when asked about Machida he gives the "I know I am going to lose this fight" vibe.
Fade Rampage, wow! WTF is up with him hating interviews so much?? He said the same thing on the UFC 114 Countdown shows. He's a nutjob.
Interesting interview.
I think losing the decision to Forrest and getting beat by Rashad has kind of chipped away at his soul. It will be interesting to see what he does after he loses to Machida.
[youtube:32gp81u2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT2y3RbpLFs[/youtube:32gp81u2]
Rampage is in it for the paycheck. Just watch his body language, when asked about Machida he gives the "I know I am going to lose this fight" vibe.
Damn the dude has given up
With Gabe Ruediger out, Paul Kelly vs. T.J. O'Brien official for UFC 123
http://bit.ly/9i7zak
Ruediger is a bum anyway.
Ruediger is a bum anyway.
After the absolute ass whipping he received at the hands of Creepy Joe, I really got the feeling he wouldn't be in the UFC much longer. I imagine he'll get one more fight and be on his way to smaller and lesser things.
More like on his way back to begging BJ Penn to drag him into a sauna again because his diet is shit.
edman5555
10-30-2010, 10:56 PM
Gabe isn't ufc level.
edman5555
11-13-2010, 07:29 PM
Bump. I'm reading about Edson Mendes. He seems pretty badass. Very good muai thai fighter, started training BJJ when he was a while ago. This article below really talks him up.
http://mmajunkie.com/news/20759/fight-p ... junior.mma (http://mmajunkie.com/news/20759/fight-path-the-ufcs-incredible-incomparable-edson-mendes-junior.mma)
Here is another article.
http://prommanow.com/index.php/2010/09/ ... exclusive/ (http://prommanow.com/index.php/2010/09/21/ufc-123-fighter-edson-mendes-junior-mmas-next-big-lightweight-a-prommanow-exclusive/)
Some ADCC champ says he thinks he is very good.
I just found this site. It looks pretty cool. It says Barb was also the sub wrestling champ in his home state. I don't know how good that is though.
http://www.mmaranked.com/prospects_figh ... arboza.php (http://www.mmaranked.com/prospects_fighters/prospects_edson_barboza.php)
edman5555
11-13-2010, 07:53 PM
Bets I am looking at.
Mark Munoz, this is a good bet.
Machida by Dec.
Tyson Griffin
Edson Mendes.
BJ PENN
edman5555
11-13-2010, 08:05 PM
Edson Mendes opponent is def not a wrestler. Edson is a badass muai thai fighter.
http://barlifemag.com/2010/06/mma-tuff-mike-lullo/
This is an interview with Mke Lullo.
This is a quote from him:I am not a grappler. I want to stand up with people. I am a striker. My jiu jitsu is good and my grappling is good, but my striking is what I want to do. A lot of guys don’t want to stand and bang so they bring the fight to the ground. I am not trying to do that, I want to knock each of them out.
This dude is going to get killed by Edson. Edson has 28 pro muai thai fights with 25 ko's( this is what I read).
UFC 123 is going to be like ufc 117 for me. BIG BUCKS.
poopoo333
11-13-2010, 08:08 PM
Edman, why are you confident in Munoz?
edman5555
11-13-2010, 08:19 PM
Because Aaron Simpson does not have very good standup as far as I can tell. Chris Leben destroyed him standing. It was like Brock when he ran across the ring. That bad. Also, Tom Lawlor did a number on Simpson standing. He almost had him knocked out, then Simpson rallied and outwrestled him for the decision. I have only seen 2 fights of his but in those two fights he has been beaten badly standing and won via wrestling.
He won't be outwrestling Munoz very easily. Munoz also has decent hands and a lot of power. This should be a win for Munoz. Munoz has knocked out a couple people and he even caught Okami with a few good punches. I think his standup is better than Aaron Simpsons and this will be a standup fight.
Hopefully after his last outing with Okami he will have learned some lessons. He was doing well against Okami standing and Okami has pretty good standup. (I do remember Munoz getting dropped by him though)
I can see why Munoz is favored, but at the current line it's Simpson or nothing, for me.
Wrestling will probably cancel, if not possibly a small edge to Simpson. And Simpson has not overwhelmed me with his striking ability, but Munoz--while obviously packing some power--is no K-1 kickboxer, either.
I'll probably be playing half a unit on Simpson and see how it goes. I think there are too many variables to be taking either guy at -170.
edman5555
11-13-2010, 09:05 PM
Has Simpson tagged anyone standing? What makes you think Simpson is better than Munoz? Munoz was a champ.
Simpson is a two time all american who had 110 wins at Arizona State. Wrestling's pretty even.
edman5555
11-13-2010, 09:26 PM
Even but I don't see an advantage for anyone in wrestling. I do see an advantage for Munoz in the standup.
Has Simpson tagged anyone standing? What makes you think Simpson is better than Munoz? Munoz was a champ.
Munoz was champ of what? Are you referring to wrestling? All I can say on that is that when it comes to wrestling-for-MMA Simpson seems to be just as good. I mean, Munoz was getting outgrappled by Kendall Grove. If Grove can do it, Simpson can definitely do it.
Standing, like I said, Simpson isn't the greatest. He definitely has big time defense problems. But he did well enough on the feet against Ed Herman, and you also have to remember that Tom Lawlor has looked pretty beastly for as long as his cardio will hold up and that Leben has sledgehammers for fists.
Munoz may very well win this one, but I'm definitely not risking almost 2 for 1 on him to find out.
edman5555
11-13-2010, 10:03 PM
Yeah Munoz was a D1 champ if i remember correctly. I'm not sure he was outgrappled by Grove..maybe he used bjj techniques. I doubt Grove out(Wrestled) him.
I didn't see the ed herman fight. I don't know much about Ed Herman. Munoz has power and decent technique. Has Simpson knocked anyone out without using ground and pound?
Svino
11-13-2010, 10:54 PM
You can see the Munoz / Grove fight here:
http://www.wat.tv/video/kendall-grove-c ... l8y5_.html (http://www.wat.tv/video/kendall-grove-contre-mark-munoz-2p1ln_2l8y5_.html)
Munoz was having a pretty hard time taking Grove down, and Grove had some dangerous sub attempts on him when the fight did get to the ground. My read on Munoz as an MMA wrestler is that the only thing he does really well is get back to his feet. He is a hard guy to hold down, but his takedowns, takedown defense, and top control seem to be lacking.
Simpson isn't that dominant an MMA wrestler himself though; I'd have to watch more video of him to refresh my memory.
edman5555
11-14-2010, 10:38 AM
It seems like Munoz was really going for broke in that fight. Maybe in a wrestler vs wrestler fight he will be more controlled. His shots have always been telegraphed, I don't seem him really taking down Simpson very much.
Simpson had a difficult time taking down Leben in their fights also. So maybe they both suck at offensive wrestling( for wrestlers).
Either way at negative money maybe SPX is right and I shouldn't bet.
I went ahead and jumped on Simpson for half a unit. I would honestly not be surprised to see either guy win this one, so for me, that means go with the dog.
Went ahead and pulled the trigger on George: 2.5u to win 1.1u.
He manhandled Stevenson and won two clear rounds against Pellegrino.
Lauzon looked excellent against Ruediger, but struggled in the wrestling against even against Stout and got chewed up on the feet. I know the Stout fight was his first after an injury layoff, but I still don't take the Ruediger win to mean that he's a monster now. Just means he looks great against lesser comp.
edman5555
11-14-2010, 09:52 PM
Went ahead and pulled the trigger on George: 2.5u to win 1.1u.
He manhandled Stevenson and won two clear rounds against Pellegrino.
Lauzon looked excellent against Ruediger, but struggled in the wrestling against even against Stout and got chewed up on the feet. I know the Stout fight was his first after an injury layoff, but I still don't take the Ruediger win to mean that he's a monster now. Just means he looks great against lesser comp.
Joe was coming off a long layoff in the Stout fight and he gassed in the second round. I think J Lo's wrestling is pretty good but it may not be enough to stop Sotir from taking him down. I think Sot will win but I am not 100% confident in it. I bet if he does win though, it will be by a dec. Sot does not have a lot of power in his hands and I doubt he will be submitting J lo. I bet a prop will pop up for it. You might be able to get +odds.
Joe was coming off a long layoff in the Stout fight and he gassed in the second round. I think J Lo's wrestling is pretty good but it may not be enough to stop Sotir from taking him down. I think Sot will win but I am not 100% confident in it. I bet if he does win though, it will be by a dec. Sot does not have a lot of power in his hands and I doubt he will be submitting J lo. I bet a prop will pop up for it. You might be able to get +odds.
I know Lauzon was coming off a layoff, but it's hard to say how much that affected him. Since he's come back we've gotten two fights: Stout and Reudiger. J-Lo really only has one good UFC win: Jeremy Stephens, who's not really a ground fighter. (I know he beat Pulver--and everyone here knows I support Pulver--but . . . don't make me say it.)
Apparently he also beat Mike Brown way the fuck back in the day, but Brown's never been great at LW and that was 6 years ago.
G-Sot is looking awesome and, with Stevenson and Pellegrino under his belt, he's kind of already surpassed J-Lo in accomplishments in my book.
But to address your point directly about the fight going to decision, yeah, it probably will.
edman5555
11-14-2010, 10:38 PM
Yeah J lo hasn't really beat anyone great. He does have some positives though, he finished all his opponents in his wins, he was doing well against against stout until he gassed( We can't say he would have won if he didn't gas but it is possible). Also, he is very young. His last loss before Stout was kflo, when he was only 24 years old. Still I think you are right though, Sotir should be able to win this. I dont think George Sot's wrestling is really that great but it was good enough to steal rounds from Pellegrino and Big Daddy. His striking is ok, mostly I think he does well because his reach is so much longer than the guys he is fighting. Not that I am an expert on striking or anything, but he doesn't seem like any kind of world beater on the feet. Pellegrino almost KO'd him at the end of their fight. Joe and Pellegrino both landed takedowns on him during their fights by the way, just not as many as George landed on them. George's BJJ is very good though.
What I likely see happening is George taking J Loe down to steal rounds. I'm not sure George will have much of any advantage in the standup. Their reach is about the same( J LO is 5' 10'' if i am not mistaken) and he seems about as good as George. I'm sure someone can land a big shot that changes the fight but its not like their is a huge noticable gap.
I think George might be a little thicked and stronger also, which might help with takedowns. But he isn't going to be subbing J LO if he gets him down, he will most likely have to watch out and be careful. Which gives him good reason to stay on top and take it easy, do some damage and maintain position.
So I am going to say George Sotiropolous by takedown, top control decision. I am actually thinking about betting it now. Thanks for getting me thinking.
poopoo333
11-14-2010, 10:40 PM
Just took Rampage/Machida goes distance @+105
edman5555
11-14-2010, 10:41 PM
So bets so far:
George Sot by Decision
Machida by Decision
Tyson Griffin.
Edson Barboza
Maybe Karo Pariysan
Probably BJ PENN.
edman5555
11-14-2010, 10:42 PM
I just bought a new phone that allows me to surf the internet so I can place bets at work on my break. Oh yeah, go gambling. I will be getting the good lines though.
Mr. IWS
11-15-2010, 08:43 AM
Ill be on Lyoto for a unit.
MMA_scientist
11-15-2010, 10:08 AM
I am looking at Falcao/Harris right now. Falcoa is a wild brawler, old school Wanderlei style- just pure agression. I have never seen him on his back, and I think Harris can probably put him there and slow his pace down. He doesn't look to have the technical grappling to give Harris any problems (like when Amir armbarred him, but he seems to have fixed that). If Harris chooses to stand and bang, he will probably get put down though, Falcao looks like a maniac. Falcoa highlight: http://www.fightlinker.com/maiquel-falc ... o#comments (http://www.fightlinker.com/maiquel-falcao-likes-the-ring-too#comments) (watch @ 5:45 for some unsportsmanlike conduct). But at -255, i don't know, that is a little steep
I think Munoz gets it done with striking. I agree that his wrestling has not translated. Not all guys have wrestling that will translate to mma (just like some really good bjj guys can't make it work in MMA). He is hard to control though and Simpson is going to have to struggle to get him down, if he can at all. Simpson has shown some power as well, but I just think Munoz will bomb him out at some point. Munoz is going to put it all together IMO and end up being good. Hell, he gave a closer fight to Okami than Nate did.
I am going to be on BJ.
I have Davis in a couple parlays (Faber/Davis and Davis/Maia). I think he will win, but Boetch probably has some value. We saw Davis get stuffed in his last fight... Boetch is the first D1 wrestler to face Davis, and he might be able to stuff a shot or two and land his heavy hands.
I guess I have to concede that Sotiropolous is good. Lauzon is way behind on the ground IMO... if Sot gets him down, he is in trouble. Still not going to bet it though. I don't really see how Joe wins it, tbh. I would like to see Sot/Pelligrino again if anyone has a link
MMA_scientist
11-15-2010, 10:13 AM
So bets so far:
George Sot by Decision
Machida by Decision
Tyson Griffin.
Edson Barboza
Maybe Karo Pariysan
Probably BJ PENN.
Where did you get lines on Griffin and Barboza? Haven't seen those.
MMA_scientist
11-15-2010, 10:28 AM
I think Lentz is going to be a tough fight for Griffin. Lentz should actually be the better wrestler. He can strike too... I think that is a really close fight, but the decision prop is where it is at for me. Neither is a finisher and neither is easy to finish. If the line is even remotely decent (say -300), I will probably be on the decision prop here.
Barboza looks like a nightmare, but Elkins is a straight up midwestern wrassler. I don't know that Barboza has had to face a wrestler yet... how is his takedown defense? Elkins does not look intimidating, but he doesn't suck.
Hallma/Karo is really close too. Hallman could play spoiler again here. His hands are at least as good as Karo's, and he has good takedowns, and he fights really smart. I don't think he will let Karo put him on his back. Either guy has value @ +150 IMO
Ill be on Lyoto for a unit.
I've got Lyoto already and I'm thinking about pushing my be up to 5u. The ONLY way I see Rampage winning this fight is by KO and I am just extremely doubtful about that happening.
My biggest concern is whether Lyoto's gonna be at the top of his mental game or whether his mind is fucked up from the KO.
I am looking at Falcao/Harris right now. Falcoa is a wild brawler, old school Wanderlei style- just pure agression. I have never seen him on his back, and I think Harris can probably put him there and slow his pace down. He doesn't look to have the technical grappling to give Harris any problems (like when Amir armbarred him, but he seems to have fixed that). If Harris chooses to stand and bang, he will probably get put down though, Falcao looks like a maniac. Falcoa highlight: http://www.fightlinker.com/maiquel-falc ... o#comments (http://www.fightlinker.com/maiquel-falcao-likes-the-ring-too#comments) (watch @ 5:45 for some unsportsmanlike conduct). But at -255, i don't know, that is a little steep
Interesting highlight. I see what you mean about him being a brawler. Seems like he's all hands, too. I didn't see much in the way of kicks or a clinch game.
I think Harris takes him down and keeps him there. But you're right that he could catch Harris. Miranda rocked Harris with a punch and had him in a little bit of trouble before Harris turned it around. I do agree that the line is a little steep, though.
Side note: Amir did not armbar Harris. He TKOd him and it was a shitty stoppage.
I am going to be on BJ.
I liked BJ as a +135 dog. Don't really like him as a -155 fave.
I guess I have to concede that Sotiropolous is good. Lauzon is way behind on the ground IMO... if Sot gets him down, he is in trouble. Still not going to bet it though. I don't really see how Joe wins it, tbh. I would like to see Sot/Pelligrino again if anyone has a link
Unless Lauzon REALLY DID become a monster between the Stout and Reudiger fights, I think George is better than him everywhere.
Just took Rampage/Machida goes distance @+105
That will probably cash.
MMA_scientist
11-15-2010, 01:06 PM
Interesting highlight. I see what you mean about him being a brawler. Seems like he's all hands, too. I didn't much in the way of kicks or a clinch game.
I think Harris takes him down and keeps him there. But you're right that he could catch Harris. Miranda rocked Harris with a punch and had him in a little bit of trouble before Harris turned it around. I do agree that the line is a little steep, though.
Side note: Amir did not armbar Harris. He TKOd him and it was a shitty stoppage.
I thought I remebered an armbar... well, those two things (Miranda and Amir) are probably enough to scare me out of the bet. Did you see the roid rage at the end of the clip? What a douche. Probably some blood feud, these brazilians and their feuds...
I liked BJ as a +135 dog. Don't really like him as a -155 fave.
The more I think about this, the less I like it. I do think BJ is better. I think his takedown defense has gotten better, Hughes has gotten slower and less powerful... but I am pretty sure Buj just skipped training camp all together for this fight. He said he was just working out of his gym for this one, basically training himself. I really hope he doesn't show up and gas again. I have sort of talked myself out of this one this morning...
Unless Lauzon REALLY DID become a monster between the Stout and Reudiger fights, I think George is better than him everywhere.
I think he just knew he was going to beat Gabe and that Gabe is a gasser, so he went bananas... worst case scenario, Gabe gasses first. He is the same guy, solid ground game, but not spectacular, decent hands, but nothing crazy, decent takedowns. I am not going to bet this fight, because in my heart I still don't think Sotiropolous is very good. I am just waiting for the hammer to fall...
after stewing for a couple hours, I really think my big bet is going to be Griffin/Lentz goes the distance.
I thought I remebered an armbar... well, those two things (Miranda and Amir) are probably enough to scare me out of the bet. Did you see the roid rage at the end of the clip? What a douche. Probably some blood feud, these brazilians and their feuds...
The Amir fight really doesn't tell us a whole lot. I thought it was a poor stoppage. The ref acted too quickly. Harris thought so, too. Here's his Harris's 9 minute reaction:
http://www.ultimatefighter.com/videos/t ... ald-s-fury (http://www.ultimatefighter.com/videos/tuf-7-exclusive-gerald-s-fury)
I actually have a profile of Harris in this month's UMMA. He actually says today that Amir did him a favor and that he was not ready for the UFC at that point. He says he's a much better fight now than he was then, and I tend to agree with him.
And yes, I saw Falcao act like a maniac. Dude seems like he might be genuinely crazy.
I think he just knew he was going to beat Gabe and that Gabe is a gasser, so he went bananas... worst case scenario, Gabe gasses first. He is the same guy, solid ground game, but not spectacular, decent hands, but nothing crazy, decent takedowns. I am not going to bet this fight, because in my heart I still don't think Sotiropolous is very good. I am just waiting for the hammer to fall...
I was skeptical about George as well, mostly because of the way he lost to ol' what's-his-name on TUF and the way what's-his-name ended up fairing in the UFC after that.
But it looks like George is one of those fighters who improved dramatically after the show and now he's a legit contender. He's for damn sure doing a hell of a lot better than that season's winner.
poopoo333
11-15-2010, 02:30 PM
Rampage winning inside distance is @ +400 and Machida winning decision is +160
Havis Jr
11-15-2010, 02:33 PM
Brown/foster goes the distance? It was just released @ +220, now at +180 5min later...
Brown has gone to distance 2 times, foster hasn't yet. They have been fighting well above and below their own skill levels. They seem to finally be evenly match and combined with the fact that its a loser leaves town situation, maybe the will be conservative and try for the UD. Thoughts?
Havis Jr
11-15-2010, 03:17 PM
Aaron Simpson has a really good chance against munoz. Munoz on paper is the better wrestler, but he trains at blackhouse and hasn't been able to keep those wrestling skills up from what I can tell in his past few fights. Simpson trains with cb/bader so you know his wrestling will be on point. Simpson also has the better hands.
MMA_scientist
11-15-2010, 03:44 PM
I agree that Simpson is the better wrestler. But I just don't think he is so much better that he can get and keep Munoz down. Simpson has been working his wrestling consistently since college (his is 37)... I think it is clear he is better than Munoz at this point. Also, Munoz's style of wrestling is not very mma conducive. He shoots into a front headlock position and then either drags out or comes out the back door... great for wrestling, really ahrd to score on a guy who is good there... not great for mma. He doesn't have a really explosive shot.
That said, I don't think Simpson can keep him down. And given what we saw with Leben, there is no reason to think that he will not have to work really hard for his takedowns. I just think that Munoz is going to blast him at some point and wobble him just like Leben and Lawlor did. Munoz packs some power. He also sets a high pace in those scrambles.
I agree that Simpson is live, but I think Munoz will win it personally.
One thing that may be worth keeping in mind is that all but one of Simpson's wins are by (T)KO.
Also, I had no idea he was that old. I thought he was like 29 or 30.
MMA_scientist
11-15-2010, 04:03 PM
Did not realize Elkins was out. How are Lullo's takedowns? That fight just went to bettable for me.
edman5555
11-15-2010, 04:52 PM
I think Lentz is going to be a tough fight for Griffin. Lentz should actually be the better wrestler. He can strike too... I think that is a really close fight, but the decision prop is where it is at for me. Neither is a finisher and neither is easy to finish. If the line is even remotely decent (say -300), I will probably be on the decision prop here.
Barboza looks like a nightmare, but Elkins is a straight up midwestern wrassler. I don't know that Barboza has had to face a wrestler yet... how is his takedown defense? Elkins does not look intimidating, but he doesn't suck.
Hallma/Karo is really close too. Hallman could play spoiler again here. His hands are at least as good as Karo's, and he has good takedowns, and he fights really smart. I don't think he will let Karo put him on his back. Either guy has value @ +150 IMO
Why do you think Lentz will cause problems for Griffin? He doesn't seem to be that good to me. He couldn't get Winner down at all, in all his other fights he was taken down and rocked on the feet quite a bit. Tyson seems like he is much faster also.
edman5555
11-15-2010, 04:58 PM
Also every guy Lentz has fought has been a non wrestler except Emerson(high school). All of his fights have been close and his opponents have been havent faired well in the ufc. Tyson beat Duane Ludwig, Clay Guida, Thiago Tavares, Gleison Tibau, Marcus Aurelio, Rafael Dos anjos and Hermes Franca. His losses have been to better wrestlers, granted. But Nik Lentz doesn't seem to have that good of wrestling...I don't know. I know Gomi knocked him out but Lentz doesn't have that power.
Don't you think that Griffins quicker hands will make the difference?
MMA_scientist
11-15-2010, 05:37 PM
Yeah, I think Griffin will win with leg kicks and strikes. I just think Lentz is tougher than he gets credit for, and he can grapple and clinch pretty well. I think Winner would outstrike Griffin, and he couldn't put Lentz away... I think Griffin will win each round, but Lentz will make it ugly the whole way. He just seems to have a way of making a fight ugly.
But Lentz makes fights ugly with guys he should be able to do that with. I seriously doubt he is able to just push Tyson up against the cage and hold him there, which is pretty much the only way I see him winning. Tyson is very hard to hold on to and control. He should really be able to pretty much easily beat Lentz IMO.
I was actually hoping that we get Griffin @ -170 or better.
I need to go back and watch some Lentz fights, but I'm thinking that Griffin should definitely be favored. Griffin is good all around and easily could have gotten the nod in the Sherk fight with a different set of judges. In fact, I see Griffin kind of like I see Florian - always sort of hovering right there around the title but never quite being able to reach it.
I am hoping Lentz's good record and Griffin's Dunham and Gomi fights are reflected in the lines. I think Griffin just freaked out in the Dunham fight(I still think he is close to Dunhams level) and got caught against Gomi.
I think Dunham would beat him again, but I do think that he would beat Gomi 3 fights out of 4.
edman5555
11-15-2010, 06:05 PM
The Dunham Griffin fight was actually pretty close. Remember that Dunham is a lot bigger than him too, taller at least. Lentz will be about his height.
Also a question for MMA Scientist, what exactly did you hear about BJ PENN's training? He really isn't taking this seriously?
edman5555
11-15-2010, 06:05 PM
When do you guys expect the rest of these lines to come out? I'm getting ancy.
I think Dunham would beat him again, but I do think that he would beat Gomi 3 fights out of 4.
It is not that I think he beats Dunham. But I do not think that fight would play out the same in a rematch. If Tyson came in with a different gameplan, I think he gives Dunham a much more competitive rematch. Just not giving up your back to get up would make it much closer. Tyson felt he could do that because it had worked for him so many times before.
I think it might be a gut feeling that Scientist is having. I kinda have it myself. I still firmly believe as long as he just has an OK camp and comes in able to give 3 decent rounds in there, that he wins.
edman5555
11-15-2010, 06:10 PM
It probably has something to do with Gomi knocking him out cold.
I think it might be a gut feeling that Scientist is having. I kinda have it myself. I still firmly believe as long as he just has an OK camp and comes in able to give 3 decent rounds in there, that he wins.
I dunno. I saw an interview with BJ the other day where he was talking about being very motivated to get a big win before the end of the year. I don't think he wants to go 0-3 for 2010.
But with BJ you really never know.
I think it might be a gut feeling that Scientist is having. I kinda have it myself. I still firmly believe as long as he just has an OK camp and comes in able to give 3 decent rounds in there, that he wins.
I dunno. I saw an interview with BJ the other day where he was talking about being very motivated to get a big win before the end of the year. I don't think he wants to go 0-3 for 2010.
But with BJ you really never know.
Yea, I saw it to. I hope so, i have 5 units on him.
edman5555
11-15-2010, 06:23 PM
Matt Hughes is getting old. In an interview Hughes was talking about BJ and he said that he wanted a "Tired BJ PENN " on the ground. Maybe he is intimidated by BJ?? Bj handled him in the first fight and he was dominating in the second, until he gassed horrrrrribly. Hughes has probably lost a step since then too. Maybe he is hoping to get a tired BJ because he knows he isn't as good as a well trained BJ.
As far as BJ's training..he just fought back to back 5 rounders. He is only having about 3 months inbetween a fight. How long is his training camp? How many weeks? 6? 8? It can't be twelve, that would by crazy. He should have only had a month, two at most without training. He should still be in good shape. I'm not a fitness expert but that shouldn't be long enough to leave him that far out of fight shape.
Good points, Edman.
Anyone think last minute money comes in on Hughes? I like BJ in this one, but should've grabbed him as a dog. I'm hoping his line goes back down closer to fight time.
Mr. IWS
11-15-2010, 06:32 PM
I dunno. I saw an interview with BJ the other day where he was talking about being very motivated to get a big win before the end of the year. I don't think he wants to go 0-3 for 2010.
He says shit like that all the time. Fuck him. ::thumbdown::
That said, I still want him to win. ::thumbup::
He says shit like that all the time. Fuck him. ::thumbdown::
Maybe he always means it, too. Sometimes guys just aren't up to the challenge. If will alone won fights then we'd have a lot more winners.
Besides, the situation for BJ right now is kind of dire. He's only gone 0-2 once before in his life. I'm sure he feels the pressure.
Mr. IWS
11-15-2010, 06:48 PM
Maybe he always means it, too. Sometimes guys just aren't up to the challenge. If will alone won fights then we'd have a lot more winners.
Besides, the situation for BJ right now kind of dire. He's only gone 0-2 once before in his life. I'm sure he feels the pressure.
He needs to get in a fuckin camp, where he can be pushed. Plain and simple. I hope he comes through.
He needs to get in a fuckin camp, where he can be pushed. Plain and simple. I hope he comes through.
Has he ever trained with anyone other than his home crew?
edman5555
11-15-2010, 06:54 PM
Bj's record isn't that bad. Since losing to Jens Pulver right when he started fighting he has only lost to GSP, Matt Hughes, Lyoto Machida and Frankie Edgar. When evaluating BJ's performance you have to remember that he is always fighting top competition, often outside his weightclass.
Break down his losses. Lyoto a light heavyweight
GSP. Possibly the pound for pound best.
Matt Hughes. One of the top Welterweights of all time, he only lost the second fight because he was a dumbass and didn't train.
Lastly F. Edgar. A lot of people thought he won the first fight, he def lost the second though. How bad did he really beat him? He didn't do much damage. You can't sell Frankie short either, hes got a lot of good wins. Look at his record, he is actually pretty badass.
Mr. IWS
11-15-2010, 07:17 PM
He needs to get in a fuckin camp, where he can be pushed. Plain and simple. I hope he comes through.
Has he ever trained with anyone other than his home crew?
I don't think he has. I would love to see him swallow his pride and go up to Tri-star and train with GSP for a camp.
I don't think he has. I would love to see him swallow his pride and go up to Tri-star and train with GSP for a camp.
Do you even think GSP would extend that offer?
Mr. IWS
11-15-2010, 08:14 PM
^^^^^^I don't see why not. He is always preaching how he is a "martial artist", I could see him doing it. Shit would be so epic, I would probably pop a chubby. Maybe they get Mir up there too, and I go full hard on.
MMA_scientist
11-15-2010, 08:18 PM
Its not a gut feeling. I am basing it on his interview at UFC 122, where he basically said he is training himself this time. He had been with Marinovich for a couple camps (the ones where he was in actual good shape)... now he said he is jst going back to sparring more and taking what he learned and training himself. I took that to mean, "I am not training very hard, if at all."
^^^^^^I don't see why not. He is always preaching how he is a "martial artist", I could see him doing it. Shit would be so epic, I would probably pop a chubby. Maybe they get Mir up there too, and I go full hard on.
LOL
I see.
edman5555
11-15-2010, 08:30 PM
Its not a gut feeling. I am basing it on his interview at UFC 122, where he basically said he is training himself this time. He had been with Marinovich for a couple camps (the ones where he was in actual good shape)... now he said he is jst going back to sparring more and taking what he learned and training himself. I took that to mean, "I am not training very hard, if at all."
HMMM
poopoo333
11-15-2010, 08:51 PM
I will be on hughes or nothing.
Why the fuck is Phil Davis's line always in the stratosphere? If his opponents are that outmatched then they need to give him harder fights.
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