Strikeforce October 9th

[SPX]

Damn, Thomson calling out the judges!

[MMA_scientist]

Judges. Dear god, they are ruining the sport. There is absolutely NO criteria where JZ lost round 3.

LOL @ Thomson calling out the judges.

[SPX]

Thomson just blasted the judges.

in b4 the judges screw him in his next fight

Yeah, I would skate softly on that pond.

[Mr. IWS]

Stupid fucking brains, LOL.

Hopefully, Diaz gets a quick win, so I can get some brain off my lady..........

[poopoo333]

I half a play on Noons but I think Diaz is going to win.

[SPX]

Hopefully, Diaz gets a quick win, so I can get some brain off my lady..........

I can't roll with you on that one, bro. The Diaz part, that is.

[brooks85]

sobral talking reminds me of tyson

[Mr. IWS]

Did Ben Stiller skeet in Babalu's hair? WTF?

[SPX]

sobral talking reminds me of tyson

He reminds me of a retard.

[Luke]

I think Diaz wins the next fight by 4 touchdowns

[Luke]

sobral talking reminds me of tyson



You know Tyson's black right and sounds like a 12 year old girl?

[Mr. IWS]

Im starting to think that Frank Shamrock has had braces longer than he hasn't.

[poopoo333]

I have no idea what Babalu just said about beer.

[MMA_scientist]

Babalu is the man. Don't hate.

His english is better than your portugese

[Mr. IWS]

I have no idea what Babalu just said about beer.

LOL, we are trying to decypher that shit too.

[zY|]

I literally cannot listen to these queers talk.

[Mr. IWS]

Babalu is the man. Don't hate.

His english is better than your portugese


ohsnap.gif

[Mr. IWS]

lol at Diaz's mean mug int he EA game.

[Luke]

Im starting to think that Frank Shamrock has had braces longer than he hasn't.



He looks cool with braces. ::thumbup::













::lmao::

[Mr. IWS]

That nigga is about as cool as a supernova with those fuckin braces... lol

[brooks85]

sobral talking reminds me of tyson



You know Tyson's black right and sounds like a 12 year old girl?


since when does sound have anything to do with color? What school did you go too

And yes tyson sounds like a 12 year old girl, just like sobral.

[brooks85]

i hope diaz fights smart and wins but im leaning against that

[Mr. IWS]

CHASE CHEVROLET 4-LIFE!!!!!!!!!!

[Svino]

I should root against Diaz because he's a dick, but Noon's face just looks like it needs a fist in it so bad...

[poopoo333]

Noons via sub, calling it now


::cheers::

[brooks85]

hey noons cut your fucking hair

[poopoo333]

ohh shit

[MMA_scientist]

diaz, there is such a thing as a clinch.

[poopoo333]

This fight better end quick, I gotta shit

[MMA_scientist]

My "KJ will fail after round 2" theory is eating shit. He is not going to gas if Diaz stands there and boxes with him. KJ can probably box all damn day.

[MMA_scientist]

This fight sucks. I said it.

[zY|]

29-28 Stockton

[SPX]

My "KJ will fail after round 2" theory is eating shit. He is not going to gas if Diaz stands there and boxes with him. KJ can probably box all damn day.

I was just thinking that if he boxes and can withstand the cardio challenge then he should be able to do the same thing in MMA.

[zY|]

39-37 Diaz

[Svino]

Well, I'd say there's a good chance Diaz has this 3 rounds to 1.

[Luke]

39-37 Diaz

[SPX]

Noons needs to unleash one of those Gurgel punches on Diaz.

[brooks85]

noons gassed after all the work in the second round

[Svino]

I'm suprised at how flat these guys are standing.

[brooks85]

haha channel scott smitth, that is all noons did for 4 rounds, stand in front of the guy and get hit

[Mr. IWS]

Scared to death now with this fuckin Judging, but I think Diaz won the fight.

[brooks85]

wow im surprised to see those numbers

[zY|]

Diaz should take it 49-46, 48-47 at the worst. Round 5 was close.

[poopoo333]

Good fight. I think Diaz won for sure.

But by the way judging has been lately, I won't be surprised if Noons gets the W.


Just saw the striking comparison, wow.

[Luke]

If this decision doesnt go to Diaz I'm done betting MMA

[SPX]

haha channel scott smitth, that is all noons did for 4 rounds, stand in front of the guy and get hit

I thought Noons landed the most meaningful strikes, but maybe that's just because Diaz's punches never look like they have anything behind them.

[MMA_scientist]

Diaz won, but there is no telling what the judges will do at all.

[Svino]

wow im surprised to see those numbers

Yeah, me too. I can't believe Noons landed that many more shots.

[poopoo333]

49-46? Really?

[Ludo]

-1.5u

[Mr. IWS]

If this decision doesnt go to Diaz I'm done betting MMA

Was thinking the same thing.

Diaz ::moneybag::

[Luke]

Diaz ::winna::


+1.0

[brooks85]

haha channel scott smitth, that is all noons did for 4 rounds, stand in front of the guy and get hit

I thought Noons landed the most meaningful strikes, but maybe that's just because Diaz's punches never look like they have anything behind them.


i do agree with that, i was just saying noons in the second round was what I expected to see. The other four he seemed slow compared to how he was moving in the second.

Id look forward to seeing the round by round breakdowns

[poopoo333]

+1.015u.

errr I should have bet Woodley like I was going to originally instead of Galvao.

BUT FINALLY A WINNING NIGHT!!!

[Luke]

If this decision doesnt go to Diaz I'm done betting MMA

Was thinking the same thing.

Diaz ::moneybag::


::clap:: great job man . After the Duhnam decision last month every fight worries me

[SPX]

Damn.

Well congrats to you guys with bets on Diaz.

[Svino]

49-46? Really?

That's probably how I had it, with Noons getting only the second. Maybe you could give him the 5th also.

[MMA_scientist]

49-46? Really?
That's how I saw it. 4-1

The one who scored it 49-47, I don't know what the hell that was. That doesn't even add up.

[Mr. IWS]

+1.015u.

errr I should have bet Woodley like I was going to originally instead of Galvao.

BUT FINALLY A WINNING NIGHT!!!
::thumbup::

good job LUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUK

[Svino]

49-46? Really?
That's how I saw it. 4-1

The one who scored it 49-47, I don't know what the hell that was. That doesn't even add up.

I bet he called the 5th 10-10.

[zY|]

49-46? Really?
That's how I saw it. 4-1

The one who scored it 49-47, I don't know what the hell that was. That doesn't even add up.

10-10 5th.

Manly.

[poopoo333]

I had it 48-47.

[Mr. IWS]

I gave Diaz round 1, 3, and 4.
I gave Noons round 2
I had round 5 10-10

[MMA_scientist]

^^ had to be it, but I just didnt see the round that way... it was not so razor thin that you had to call it a draw.

[Mr. IWS]

AUDI 5 NEGROS

Peace

[Luke]

Personally I think round 3 could have been a 10-10 round

[zY|]

^^ had to be it, but I just didnt see the round that way... it was not so razor thin that you had to call it a draw.

I thought it was fine. Noons landed the harder shots, Nick landed more.

[SPX]

Nick landed more?

I guess we'll have to see if Fight Metric agrees with Compustrike.

[zY|]

Nick landed more?

I guess we'll have to see if Fight Metric agrees with Compustrike.

I meant in round 5.

Honestly I don't see any way Noons landed that 311 Compustrike gave him. Unless they just counted all the blocked shots as well.

[SPX]

I meant in round 5.

Honestly I don't see any way Noons landed that 311 Compustrike gave him. Unless they just counted all the blocked shots as well.

Who knows. I did feel throughout the fight that Noons was consistently landing cleaner--and perhaps more--strikes than Diaz. But for some reason I had a feeling that Diaz was going to win. The rounds were too close, Noons was hitting a lot of air with his haymakers (which I think leaves an impression of a fighter not landing his strikes in general), and it was Diaz's hometown and he's the champ.

[zY|]

I thought it was pretty clear that Nick was getting the better of the exchanges, aside from round 2.

[SPX]

I thought it was pretty clear that Nick was getting the better of the exchanges, aside from round 2.

Maybe. Too bad for Noons he didn't get a couple of knockdowns.

[zY|]

I thought it was pretty clear that Nick was getting the better of the exchanges, aside from round 2.

Maybe. Too bad for Noons he didn't get a couple of knockdowns.

Good luck knocking down Nick Diaz. He would've had to hit him with one of those Gurgel killshots. And Nick got the only knockdown.

[SPX]

Good luck knocking down Nick Diaz. He would've had to hit him with one of those Gurgel killshots. And Nick got the only knockdown.

Didn't Zaromskis knock Diaz down?

[poopoo333]

Good luck knocking down Nick Diaz. He would've had to hit him with one of those Gurgel killshots. And Nick got the only knockdown.

Didn't Zaromskis knock Diaz down?

Yeah

[Thewiseman]

It was close, but I thought Diaz clearly won. + 4u. Missed a good bet on Coenen. All my money was tied up.

[zY|]

KJ Noons, broken jaw and broken hand.

[poopoo333]

KJ Noons, broken jaw and broken hand.

Happened early too. Crazy.

[Svino]

Interestingly, the Sherdog guys said that after two rounds of the Kaufman / Coenen fight, one judge gave round 2 to Kaufman, all 5 other rounds on the cards were for Coenen.

[poopoo333]

Interestingly, the Sherdog guys said that after two rounds of the Kaufman / Coenen fight, one judge gave round 2 to Kaufman, all 5 other rounds on the cards were for Coenen.

What?

[poopoo333]

[youtube:276300to]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KfM0e-ZpvA[/youtube:276300to]

[youtube:276300to]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMS_K81S0dE[/youtube:276300to]

[Mr. IWS]

LMAO, he dont even know the dudes last name that helped him with his sparring.

BTW, has he ever done an interview where he looked everywhere BUT the interviewer...LOL

Thanks for getting these up poopoo.

[SPX]

After last night, I think Thomson needs to watch out.

He very nearly lost to Pat Healy and most people seem to have given the first round of last night's fight to JZ. (I gave it to Thomson, but it was razor thin. Maybe a 10-10.)

And LOL at him calling out Gil. Gil would beat him decisively in a rubber match, just like he did in their second fight.

[SPX]

LOL @ Nick Diaz

That dude is such a character and, like him or hate him, he always seems genuine. I also wonder if he ever smiles. Anyone ever seen that nigga smile?

[Luke]

I find it amazing Compustrike had Diaz with 194 strikes and Noons 310 .Fightmetric had Diaz 150, Noons 139


::lolzorz:: compustrike

[zY|]

I find it amazing Compustrike had Diaz with 194 strikes and Noons 310 .Fightmetric had Diaz 150, Noons 139


::lolzorz:: compustrike

Yeah wtf is that about? Do the compustrike guys just count a strike landed every time Noons moved his arm?

[Luke]

Yeah wtf is that about? Do the compustrike guys just count a strike landed every time Noons moved his arm?


I think they did count a strike everytime someone moved their arm. I knew when I saw the stats after the fight something was f-up.

[Svino]

OK, Fightmetric had it scored pretty much the way I did. I guess Compustrike was counting every muscle-twitch as a punch and everything that actually touched the opponent as "landed". I know counting strikes live is hard, but damn.

[brooks85]

[/quote]

i do agree with that, i was just saying noons in the second round was what I expected to see. The other four he seemed slow compared to how he was moving in the second.

Id look forward to seeing the round by round breakdowns[/quote]


figures, noons broke his left hand in the second round and jaw in the first

[SPX]

SAN JOSE, Calif. – Lightweight Gesias "JZ" Cavalcante was sure he'd done enough to earn a decision victory over Josh Thomson at this past Saturday's "Strikeforce: Diaz vs. Noons 2" event.

Instead, Thomson earned a unanimous-decision victory, and though two judges scored it 29-28, one judge surprisingly gave him all three rounds.

"When they said 30-27, I said, 'Come on, that's complete bull [expletive],'" Cavalcante told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com (http://www.mmajunkie.com)) afterward.

"Everybody keeps telling me I won," he added. "I feel like I won the first and the third round. But I have to watch the tape."

In the evening's co-main event, Cavalcante (15-4-1 MMA, 0-1 SF) and Thomson (18-3 MMA, 9-2 SF) waged a back-and-forth scrap that mostly took place on the mat. Both fought off submission attempts early on – Cavalcante used a tight guillotine and Thomson an arm-triangle choke – and traded dominant position during the 15-minute affair. Cavalcante, though, earned the lead on MMAjunkie.com's scorecard with an overall score of 29-28.

Fight statistic service CompuStrike gave Thomson the lead over Cavalcante in overall strikes landed (76 percent to 62 percent), ground strikes landed (83 percent to 69 percent), and dominant positions (two to one), though Cavalcante led in takedown attempts (two out of three vs. two out of five), knockdowns (one to zero) and leg strikes landed (92 percent to 84 percent).

Afterward, Thomson praised Cavalcante and said he disagreed with the judge who gave him all three rounds.

"I felt this might go the distance, but no way I won that fight 30-27," he said.

Although Cavalcante doesn't fault Thomson, he thinks the former champion's status as hometown hero may have played a part in the judges' call.

"That's always an influence," he said. "He comes back (to Strikeforce) and [almost] nobody knows me. I should have finished the fight. I had the opportunity to do it, and I missed it."

Still, the American Top Team product and DREAM veteran is frustrated by what he sees as a growing problem in MMA.

"Lately, they've been doing a lot of bad, bad [decisions]," he said. "If it keeps going like that, it's going to be really bad for the sport. Like with Jessica Aguilar, who just fought in Bellator, [the judges] dropped her fight with a bad decision. (Ed. note: Zoila Frausto defeated Aguilar by split decision at Bellator 31.)

"I have a couple of friends that get angry. They don't like to see those kinds of things. People like to watch because it's fun and entertaining, but not [with] bad judgement. That's something they've got to try to fix ... because it's a great sport, and everybody comes and fights hard."

Cavalcante is unsure of his next career move, though from the sound of it, he won't be fighting in Japan any time soon. Prior to his meeting with Thomson, he defeated Katsunori Kikuno in July's DREAM.16 event and said he has yet to be paid for his efforts.

"[Expletive] DREAM, man," he said. "I'm not going to say I'm done, but I need to get paid. I need people to show the respect [I] need.

"But Strikeforce, I've got to see what they're going to do after this. I feel good. I'm healthy. A little break, and maybe (I'll fight) at the end of the year or the beginning of next year. I've got to take time to check it out."

[Luke]

^^^^ and again MMA judging screws things up. Its been the worst lately.

[SPX]

I agree it's been pretty gay. The decision itself though--Thomson winning--was certainly no robbery though.

In any case, if JZ can essentially draw Thomson then he can beat a lot of other guys. Set him up with Noons and see what happens.

[MMA_scientist]

It is almost a coin flip on any given fight. I felt that JZ won, but it was really close. Not the travesty it is being made out to be. Still, something has to give.

That said, it is really hard to score ground fights. If one guy is on his back in guard, that is technically a neutral position. Unless the guy on top is landing meaningful blows, being on top means shit. But then it is hard to give a lot of points for submission attempts too... you don't know how close something is. Sometimes guys will hold on to a guillotine forever, you can't get your head out, but it is not close on the choke, they are just head squeezing and stalling. Same thing with a lot of submission attempts. If the other guy is reacting and defending the whole time, then yes, they should get some control points for that. We argued about guard passes and dominant positions too in the past. If you get to mount, but don't hurt the guy or threaten a submission, why should that score? On one hand, it shows dominance, but on the other hand, the whole point of mount is that it is supposed to be a better position to finish from. It is harder than people think to score this stuff...

[SPX]

If you get to mount, but don't hurt the guy or threaten a submission, why should that score?

My take on this, and I know I've said this before, is that the very nature of being on top of someone is more theatening than being on the bottom because the guy on top is in control. In a "real fight," the guy on top can choose to keep threatening with aggression or he can choose to get up and walk away. The guy on the bottom has no such choice. He at the mercy of his opponent.

[zY|]

Achieving mount is considered effective grappling. If most of the round was on the floor, that's what is scored first. The unified rules are pretty specific about scoring.

[SPX]

Achieving mount is considered effective grappling. If most of the round was on the floor, that's what is scored first. The unified rules are pretty specific about scoring.

I think Scientist is more talking about how he feels things should be rather than the way they are.

[zY|]

If you get to mount, but don't hurt the guy or threaten a submission, why should that score?

My take on this, and I know I've said this before, is that the very nature of being on top of someone is more theatening than being on the bottom because the guy on top is in control. In a "real fight," the guy on top can choose to keep threatening with aggression or he can choose to get up and walk away. The guy on the bottom has no such choice. He at the mercy of his opponent.

He can just stand up from a closed guard and leave?

[zY|]

Achieving mount is considered effective grappling. If most of the round was on the floor, that's what is scored first. The unified rules are pretty specific about scoring.

I think Scientist is more talking about how he feels things should be rather than the way they are.

I still think it works out. It's not like the other guy will have any effective offense if you have him mounted.

[MMA_scientist]

If you get to mount, but don't hurt the guy or threaten a submission, why should that score?

My take on this, and I know I've said this before, is that the very nature of being on top of someone is more theatening than being on the bottom because the guy on top is in control. In a "real fight," the guy on top can choose to keep threatening with aggression or he can choose to get up and walk away. The guy on the bottom has no such choice. He at the mercy of his opponent.


I agree. I think it shows dominance and control to get all the way to mount. But if the guy escapes on his own before you do anything, I guess I can see why someone would say that shouldn't score. I personally believe in the bjj hierarchy of positions (kool-aid, yum). So to me, the only thing more dominant than mount is having the back with the bottom guy pancaked out. To a certain extent, MMA has just followed bjj scoring with blind faith, with a couple of exceptions. In bjj you don't score if you have the back unless you have hooks in, I believe that MMA judges view the turtle position as dominance for the guy on top. And then guard too, I think most judges favor the guy on top, even if he isn't doing anything.

[MMA_scientist]

[quote="zY|":qv9nj3hu]Achieving mount is considered effective grappling. If most of the round was on the floor, that's what is scored first. The unified rules are pretty specific about scoring.

I think Scientist is more talking about how he feels things should be rather than the way they are.

I still think it works out. It's not like the other guy will have any effective offense if you have him mounted.[/quote:qv9nj3hu]

Yeah I agree... but I think the counterpoint is that if you don't do anything, who cares? Or if you get bucked off, and then it goes back to standing, how much weight should the fact that you achieved mount carry? As opposed to just a takedown? In my view, if you get a takedown, pass guard, and mount all in 30 seconds, that shows more dominance than landing rabbit punches form inside guard for 5 minutes.

[zY|]

Yeah I agree... but I think the counterpoint is that if you don't do anything, who cares? Or if you get bucked off, and then it goes back to standing, how much weight should the fact that you achieved mount carry? As opposed to just a takedown? In my view, if you get a takedown, pass guard, and mount all in 30 seconds, that shows more dominance than landing rabbit punches form inside guard for 5 minutes.

Well it would obviously depends on what happens the rest of the round. But yes, achieving mount should be worth more than just a takedown, even if you don't hold it. Scoring a fight is just about who can implement their game on the other guy. Damage and close submissions attempts should obviously count the most, but in the absence of those, position absolutely scores. You just have to weigh it all out based on the criteria.

[Luke]

Big time paydays here:



The full payouts included:

Nick Diaz: $50,000
def. K.J. Noons: $10,000

Josh Thomson: $50,000
def. Gesias Cavalcante: $40,000

Marloes Coenen: $3,000 (includes $1,000 win bonus)
def. Sarah Kaufman: $20,000

Tyron Woodley: $15,000 ($7,500 win bonus)
def. Andre Galvao: $10,000

James Terry: $3,000 ($1,500 win bonus)
David Marshall: $1,500

Josh McDonald: $3,000 ($1,500 win bonus)
def. Ron Keslar: $1,500

Jess Bouscal: $3,000 ($1,500 win bonus)
def. Luis Mendoza: $1,500

[SPX]

Holy shit, why did Noons only get $10K? Shouldn't he be getting like $40K just to show at this point? And then he's fighting in a title match on top of that?

And Coenen got $3K to fight for the title? I don't believe that.

[MMA_scientist]

^^ I totally believe it. Unless it is Cyborg or Carano, no one knows who these chicks are. I am probably as dedicated a fan as anyone, and I couldn't point out Coenen or Kaufman or any other female fighter in a lineup even now, after just having watched her fight. Aside from the public interest, there is no other league to leverage against SF for more money. I am sure she got some sponsorship money though.

[SPX]

^^^ Well Bellator is building a pretty impressive women's roster, but it seems they're specifically targeting the weight classes (115 lbs, 125 lbs) that Strikeforce is staying away from. With Fujii, Frausto, Aguilar, Pene, Ward, etc. they have a lot of the very best talent in the lower women's weight classes.

In any case, Coenen is a veteran in the sport and it's just fucking stupid that she got $3K when Kaufman got $20K. I wonder how much Roxy got. I really hope she didn't fight for such a low amount of money.

[MMA_scientist]

^^ yeah but Bellator doesn't pay much either. I agree they ought to get more, but women's MMA is still in the embryonic stages, and it will never be a major sport. It is like female boxing, there will be occasional interest in it, when Layla Ali is fighting, but other than that, no one will ever care very much, IMO. Same thing with MMA, after Cyborg loses, it will shrink away some I think. I don't think they are ever going to get big money.

[SPX]

I don't think they are ever going to get big money.

At least Kaufman is getting $20K. I would think Coenen deserves at least half that--and I think that Strikeforce would just consider it good business sense to pay their female fighters at least $10K to fight for a championship, if for no other reason than to attract other top female fighters to their organization.

I wonder what would happen to women's MMA if the UFC went ahead and opened up a women's division (or two). It would have to have an effect.

[Luke]

I wonder how much Roxy got. I really hope she didn't fight for such a low amount of money.


Probably the same ,3k or less

[SPX]

Probably the same ,3k or less

When I talked to her, she actually told me that she doesn't make enough off of fighting to live on. She actually teaches English 30-35 hours a week to supplement her income.

I was shocked by this. I think it's bullshit.

[Luke]

At least Kaufman is getting $20K. I would think Coenen deserves at least half that--and I think that Strikeforce would just consider it good business sense to pay their female fighters at least $10K to fight for a championship, if for no other reason than to attract other top female fighters to their organization.

I wonder what would happen to women's MMA if the UFC went ahead and opened up a women's division (or two). It would have to have an effect.


When Carwin and Chael are getting 40k a piece to fight for titles as the main events of PPV's what more can you expect for two women fighters fighting on a television card, who are not main events ,on a card not alot of people watch?

[Luke]

When I talked to her, she actually told me that she doesn't make enough off of fighting to live on. She actually teaches English 30-35 hours a week to supplement her income.

I was shocked by this. I think it's bullshit.


I agree its BS . There's plenty of jobs out there that dont get paid what they should

[SPX]

When Carwin and Chael are getting 40k a piece to fight for titles as the main events of PPV's what more can you expect for two women fighters fighting on a television card, who are not main events ,on a card not alot of people watch?

I think Carwin is hampered by an old contract. I expect he'll renegotiate when the times comes.

Not sure what's up with Chael. Maybe also under a contract he signed when he was pulled from the WEC, when they weren't sure if he was going to crash and burn or fly like an eagle.

[SPX]

I agree its BS . There's plenty of jobs out there that dont get paid what they should

I mean, seriously. We're talking about fighters who are in the top 5 in the world in their weight class, and they're getting paid $3K to fight for a belt? Ridiculous.

[zY|]

Clearly a tax dodge. Just like Mousasi, Fedor, etc. Coenen the Armbarian makes more than that.

[SPX]

Clearly a tax dodge. Just like Mousasi, Fedor, etc. Coenen the Armbarian makes more than that.

This is what came to mind for me initially. I remember Mousasi supposedly fought for $1,000 or something one time. I mean, c'mon.

[zY|]

When I talked to her, she actually told me that she doesn't make enough off of fighting to live on. She actually teaches English 30-35 hours a week to supplement her income.

I was shocked by this. I think it's bullshit.


I agree its BS . There's plenty of jobs out there that dont get paid what they should

And Roxy apparently has two such jobs, lol.