UFC 124: GSP vs. Koscheck II to take place in Montreal

[Luke]

The Ultimate Fighting Championship is coming back to Montreal, and the event will be headlined by the most famous Canadian in the sport.

Georges St-Pierre's title defense against Josh Koscheck will take place on Dec. 11 at the Bell Centre in Montreal, Quebec, Canada, UFC president Dana White confirmed with MMA Fighting Monday.

UFC 124 will happen at the end of the 12th season of The Ultimate Fighter, which premieres on Spike TV on Sept. 15. St-Pierre and Koscheck will serve as opposing coaches on the show.

The event will mark the second time the UFC comes to Montreal this year. UFC 113 also took place in Montreal.

St-Pierre has only fought once before in his hometown as a member of the UFC roster. He defeated Matt Serra to regain his welterweight title in April 2008 at UFC 83.

The UFC has since held two other events in "La Bell Province": UFC 97 in April 2009 and the aforementioned UFC 113 in May 2010.

St-Pierre defeated Koscheck at UFC 74 via unanimous decision in a non-title fight. His most recent successful title defense came against Dan Hardy at UFC 111.

Since losing to Paulo Thiago at UFC 95, Koscheck has won three in a row. His most recent win actually took place in Montreal when he defeated Paul Daley at UFC 113.

Koscheck will no doubt enter the cage on Dec. 11 as a major villain since he is fighting the hometown favorite and also took shots at Montreal Canadiens following his win over Daley


...

[SPX]

^^^ Trying to stack the deck against Kos. . .

That's fine, I've dropped my 4u on GSP.

[zY|]

Awesome.

[poopoo333]

It would be crazy if Koscheck beats him in Montreal. You would be able to hear a pin drop in that place.

[SPX]

It would be crazy if Koscheck beats him in Montreal. You would be able to hear a pin drop in that place.

There would probably be a riot.

Literally.

[Mr. IWS]

^^^^^^^^^^^this

[zY|]

Probably should've seen this coming. Kos already made himself the villain in Montreal at 113. Now we've got him vs the golden child.

So pro-wrestling.

[edman5555]

Kos has a good chance.

[zY|]

Define "good".

[edman5555]

He is a four time all american. In the first fight he took the first round. I think Gsp will win but Kos might end up going toe to toe with him in the wrestling department. I don't think he wins the striking battle though. Probably not even the fight. Say 20%?

[SPX]

He is a four time all american. In the first fight he took the first round. I think Gsp will win but Kos might end up going toe to toe with him in the wrestling department. I don't think he wins the striking battle though. Probably not even the fight. Say 20%?

1 in 5 isn't exactly "good," I wouldn't say.

[poopoo333]

I think he has better than a 20% chance. I think this fight will be competitive.

[Havis Jr]

I put 1u on KOS.

[zY|]

Since nobody posted it.

http://www.bestfightodds.com/events/313.png

[MMA_scientist]

Kos is definately worth a bet @ +361. He is one of about 3 guys that might be able to stuff GSP's shot @ WW. And he does have the ability to knock a guy out. Those factors alone have to make it better than 22%. I put him @ about 35% personally. Even if he takes GSP down, he won't be able to keep him there. And I doubt he can do it repeatedly for 5 rounds. I think his best chance is standing, where hs is still at a disadvantage. Still he has some tools and could win.

[Luke]

Did no one watch the first fight?



Nothing Koscheck does is better than GSP, nothing

[Ludo]

Koscheck also was training exclusively in stand up when the first fight happened. He neglected his wrestling in Camp. Since then he has gotten back to wrestling and he has hired a better strength and conditioning coach. I'd say he's a live dog.

[SPX]

Koscheck also was training exclusively in stand up when the first fight happened. He neglected his wrestling in Camp. Since then he has gotten back to wrestling and he has hired a better strength and conditioning coach. I'd say he's a live dog.

Nigga's gonna be a dead dog come December.

[zY|]

Koscheck also was training exclusively in stand up when the first fight happened. He neglected his wrestling in Camp. Since then he has gotten back to wrestling and he has hired a better strength and conditioning coach. I'd say he's a live dog.

People say this shit all the time, like Kos forgot how to wrestle or something. I don't buy it.

Kos can match GSP in wrestling skill and physical ability, but nothing else. The guy doesn't know how to transition between striking and grappling at all and has the fight IQ of a functional retard. Kos's chance is a flash KO just like the rest of GSP's opponents. Most likely GSP is going to just run game all over him.

[Ludo]

Koscheck also was training exclusively in stand up when the first fight happened. He neglected his wrestling in Camp. Since then he has gotten back to wrestling and he has hired a better strength and conditioning coach. I'd say he's a live dog.

People say this shit all the time, like Kos forgot how to wrestle or something. I don't buy it.

Kos can match GSP in wrestling skill and physical ability, but nothing else. The guy doesn't know how to transition between striking and grappling at all and has the fight IQ of a functional retard. Kos's chance is a flash KO just like the rest of GSP's opponents. Most likely GSP is going to just run game all over him.


Oh I'm not saying Koscheck WILL win. But to say he has no chance at all is ridiculous. He may not have "forgotten" how to wrestle but as we just saw with King Mo, if you neglect your wrestling in camp(all injuries aside) it can fuck you around. Personally I didn't see much wrong with Mo or his takedowns until after he got wobbled and pounded until his head was full of fuck. My point is, to say Josh Koscheck is going to look like Dan Hardy in there against GSP is a pretty shortsighted comment. Will he win? Probably not. Will he make a fight out of it? I'm fairly certain he will.

[zY|]

Nobody said he's going to look like Dan Hardy in there. I'm not saying he doesn't have a chance, I'm just prognosticating what I think is going to happen. Kos can probably make it competitive, but as far as winning? I can't see him outpointing GSP over a 5 round fight, so I'm saying a standing KO is probably his best chance. +350 is not a bad bet and probably does have some value, but I won't be taking it because GSP is going to win.

As far as King Mo goes, I don't know whether or not he was neglecting his wrestling in camp or whatever, but he certainly was during the fight, which was his downfall in my opinion.

[Mr. IWS]

Isnt Kos the guy that got KTFO by Thiago?

Kos cant andle da riddum.

GSP via whatever he wants.

[Luke]

^^^ What he said

[Luke]

Thiago Alves vs. John Howard targeted for UFC 124




One day after Thiago Alves (17-7 MMA, 9-4 UFC) welcomed a fight with Mike Pierce, who on Tuesday called him out on MMAjunkie.com Radio, the former contender is now expected to meet John Howard (14-5 MMA, 4-1 UFC) at UFC 124.

Sources close to the event today told MMAjunkie.com (http://www.mmajunkie.com) that verbal agreements are in place and contracts will be sent out shortly.

While not yet officially announced by the promotion, UFC 124 is expected to take place Dec. 11 at the Bell Centre in Montreal and feature a welterweight title fight between current champion Georges St-Pierre and challenger Josh Koscheck, who coach opposite each another on "The Ultimate Fighter 12." It's the promotion's fourth trip to the Canadian city.

Alves is looking for redemption after his most recent performance. The American Top Team standout met perennial contender Jon Fitch at UFC 117 this past August and lost a unanimous decision. Added to the sting of defeat was his struggle to make weight for the contest. He showed up one pound over and was fined 20 percent of his fight purse by commission officials






http://bit.ly/ca50XD

[zY|]

Thiago by murder

[MMA_scientist]

^^ Howard's striking is coming along... he looked dangerous on his feet against Ellenberger. Does anyone else think Thiago's striking is overrated? I mean, it is obviously solid, but I think the UFC machine might have overstated his striking abilities. I don't think he is the insta-death muy thai machine that we are supposed to think he is...

I think Howard will come in as a pretty sizable dog, and I will probably take him.

[zY|]

^^ Howard's striking is coming along... he looked dangerous on his feet against Ellenberger. Does anyone else think Thiago's striking is overrated? I mean, it is obviously solid, but I think the UFC machine might have overstated his striking abilities. I don't think he is the insta-death muy thai machine that we are supposed to think he is...

I think Howard will come in as a pretty sizable dog, and I will probably take him.

True. Howard is powerful and Thiago is no Anderson Silva. I do think Thiago is a lot better than Howard technically though and more importantly, much better defensively than Jake Ellenberger. I also doubt he'll be taking Alves down and I expect him to get picked apart. You're right though, it all depends on the odds. Howard will probably be a huge dog.

[SPX]

I think the Alves that fought Kos would destroy Howard. He didn't look as good against Fitch, but that may very well have been as much about Fitch as it was about Alves. I mean, I know it was a few years ago and Alves is supposedly a much-improved monster now, but their two fights really didn't look that much different. Lots of takedowns and control from Fitch.

I'd probably take Alves at -233 or better.

[edman5555]

Alves was drained for the second fitch fight. Howard's striking is very very powerful but not very technical. Alves will probably have the edge in pure standup but I wouldn't be suprised to see Howard shoot in for a takedown..

[Luke]

I think the Alves that fought Kos would destroy Howard. He didn't look as good against Fitch, but that may very well have been as much about Fitch as it was about Alves. I mean, I know it was a few years ago and Alves is supposedly a much-improved monster now, but their two fights really didn't look that much different. Lots of takedowns and control from Fitch.

I'd probably take Alves at -233 or better.


I dont think I'd take Alves at the high of odds

[poopoo333]

Bocek/Hazelett added

[SPX]

Damn, Hazelett going back to lightweight?

[Luke]

Stefan Struve vs. Sean McCorkle at UFC 124 on Dec. 11 in Montreal

..

[poopoo333]

McCorkle on Tomas Rios:

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/26 ... ournalist/ (http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/267987/McCorkle-reviles-critical-journalist/)

[zY|]

"PS: Your first name is missing an "H" and your last name is missing a "cocksucker"

As funny as that is, the UG is such a complete shithole.

[MMA_scientist]

^^ Hilarious. McCorkle just owned Rios...

Rios owns himself every time he does a breakdown though...

[Luke]

Charles Oliveira Meets Jim Miller at "UFC 124: St-Pierre vs. Koscheck" -

http://5thRound.com/A6

[Ludo]

Oliveira by epilepsy.

[poopoo333]

Joe Daddy/Mac Danzig

[SPX]

Joe Daddy/Mac Danzig

Bye Danzig

[Mr. IWS]

^^^^^^^^Beat me to it...lol

[Luke]

Undefeated John Makdessi octagon-bound, meets Pat Audinwood at UFC 124

http://bit.ly/9gltkn



Awesome ::thumbup::

[Mr. IWS]

Undefeated John Makdessi octagon-bound, meets Pat Audinwood at UFC 124

http://bit.ly/9gltkn



Awesome ::thumbup::

Awesomely awesome ::thumbup:: ::thumbup::

[ctm0808]

Gotta root for Struve. Loved his last fight, and god damned McCorkle didn't do what he was supposed to last time out and lost me 6u.

Oliveira vs. Miller should be sweet.

[poopoo333]

Gotta root for Struve. Loved his last fight, and god damned McCorkle didn't do what he was supposed to last time out and lost me 6u.

Oliveira vs. Miller should be sweet.

McCorkle is going to end up being the next Joey Beltran of IWS.

[Mr. IWS]

McCorkle is going to end up being the next Joey Beltran of IWS.

Yup. Im taking my Mark Hunt loss and running though. haha

[ctm0808]

Yup. Im taking my Mark Hunt loss and running though. haha

Same here. So hopefully Struve comes in at like -400 and makes it easy to stay off him..

[poopoo333]

It looks like Struve/McCorkle is listed as the co main event...weird

[zY|]

On Struve/McCorkle

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm ... 114&page=1 (http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum.posts&forum=1&thread=1720114&page=1)

Authenticity not verified but wouldn't be surprised.

[Ludo]

Is McKorkle Canadian? If so it would make sense sort of.

[edman5555]

Cain Velasquez says he thinks GSP will be champion for a long time.
At 4:50 mark.


http://ctestp.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/C ... CP24Sports (http://ctestp.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20101104/101104_velasquez/20101104/?hub=CP24Sports)

[Luke]

It looks like Struve/McCorkle is listed as the co main event...weird


Co-main event? Seriously?

I'm not buying this card if this is the case

[poopoo333]

It looks like Struve/McCorkle is listed as the co main event...weird


Co-main event? Seriously?

I'm not buying this card if this is the case

That is what it looks like on UFC.com and wiki. I think Miller/Oliveira should be the co-main event but oh well.

[Luke]

Speaking of Kos and this event .Who's the the black guy Kos tried to choke on the last TUF episode?

[Ludo]

One of the medical staff on GSP's team. He's been busting the guys balls calling him a male nurse since last week.

[Luke]

One of the medical staff on GSP's team. He's been busting the guys balls calling him a male nurse since last week.


I didnt see the episode or any of them I just saw the clip of Kos trying to choke him then going back to apologize

[Mr. IWS]

It looks like Struve/McCorkle is listed as the co main event...weird


Co-main event? Seriously?

I'm not buying this card if this is the case


When is the last time you bought a card? LOL

[Luke]

When is the last time you bought a card? LOL


Lol that was the joke .


Honestly the last card I think I bought was UFC 91 Couture-Lesnar whenever that was. I use to buy them once in a while until you showed me how to get them free.

[YoungTRK484]

One of the medical staff on GSP's team. He's been busting the guys balls calling him a male nurse since last week.


I didnt see the episode or any of them I just saw the clip of Kos trying to choke him then going back to apologize

He didn't actually go back to apologize to the coach on GSP's team, he went back to apologize to the dude Sayers on GSP's team b/c he pushed his face when Sayers was trying to break Kos and the medic up. I ::lolzorz:: @ Sayers when they showed him all teary and fired up and ready to cry backstage. Like c'mon dude, wtf?!?

[MMA_scientist]

Sayers is an emo.

This is a funny season of TUF though... and there actually looks like some quality prospects.

Kos is such a jackass it is almost unbelievable. That's a 30 something grown man.

[zY|]

Koscheck is definitely an idiotic jock and dbag, but the editing makes him look worse than he is. Check out this unaired footage from last night's show.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/11/4/17 ... o#comments (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/11/4/1795023/unaired-footage-from-the-ultimate-fighter-josh-koscheck-apologizes-to#comments)

[MMA_scientist]

^^ that defintely makes him come off better, but not that much. His shenanigans from the last episode was not as annoying to me as his general middle school bully personality. It is the same act he had on TUF 1, and now 5 years later, and he is still a douchebag with the wit of a 12 year old... his general response is, I will kick your ass!

I don't care he choked that fat nurse. I would have smacked the shit out him a lot earlier. I just think he is a retarded meat head.

[zY|]

Actually I thought it was hilarious how Koscheck initiated the trash talk with that guy in the first place, then got absolutely schooled.

I died when he called him out on the phantom knee. Kos' only response is 'bro you're a male nurse', over and over.

[MMA_scientist]

Koscheck can't talk shit very well at all. He just doesn't have the comedic timing. It makes it worse because I think he thinks he is funny, and he has all his lackeys laughing along with him like the bully squad on A christmas Story... That nurse totally owned him over and over. He was owning the shit out of him in the hallway too.

Then Kos comes up witha crazy conpiracy theory that GSP hired him to shit talk for him... just a retard, that's all there is to it. Editing, no editing, he's really dumb.

[Luke]

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/11/4/1795023/unaired-footage-from-the-ultimate-fighter-josh-koscheck-apologizes-to#comments


This is the clip I saw yesterday I didnt realize it wasnt what was showed on TV .What was different on TV?

[Luke]

He didn't actually go back to apologize to the coach on GSP's team, he went back to apologize to the dude Sayers on GSP's team b/c he pushed his face when Sayers was trying to break Kos and the medic up. I ::lolzorz:: @ Sayers when they showed him all teary and fired up and ready to cry backstage.



huh? I thought the big black guy was the nurse. Thats the only person I saw him apologize too but I only saw a 5 minute clip

[YoungTRK484]

He didn't actually go back to apologize to the coach on GSP's team, he went back to apologize to the dude Sayers on GSP's team b/c he pushed his face when Sayers was trying to break Kos and the medic up. I ::lolzorz:: @ Sayers when they showed him all teary and fired up and ready to cry backstage.



huh? I thought the big black guy was the nurse. Thats the only person I saw him apologize too but I only saw a 5 minute clip

Yeah thats not what they showed on TV. On TV right after the "scuffle" Sayers storms off the bleachers into the back dressing room all crying and shit cause Kos pushed his face away, which you can see on that clip and they showed on TV.

He was all heavy breathing and Kos walked back and apologized but Sayers was like "Why me man". Kos was like talking him down, telling him tot ake deep breaths, take a moment. LOL. It was kinda funny but I hadn't seen the unedited footage.

Also, they don't show on that clip how after the weigh-ins Kos walked up to the male nurse and goes something like "Why don't we hold hands as we walk outta here" like a lil sarcastic punk.

[Luke]

Yeah thats not what they showed on TV. On TV right after the "scuffle" Sayers storms off the bleachers into the back dressing room all crying and shit cause Kos pushed his face away, which you can see on that clip and they showed on TV.

He was all heavy breathing and Kos walked back and apologized but Sayers was like "Why me man". Kos was like talking him down, telling him tot ake deep breaths, take a moment. LOL. It was kinda funny but I hadn't seen the unedited footage.

Also, they don't show on that clip how after the weigh-ins Kos walked up to the male nurse and goes something like "Why don't we hold hands as we walk outta here" like a lil sarcastic punk.



Thats the main reason I dont watch TUF or most tv shows ,I dont like edited things that dont show the real story .Just show me what happens ::thumbup::

[SPX]

http://img574.imageshack.us/img574/1041/gspkos.gif

[Luke]

^^^^^^^^funny shit X

[Luke]

Sean McCorkle:


Sometimes I wonder if life as a 2nd tier UFC heavyweight is really all it's cracked up to be. That's when I call Stefan Struve and ask him




::lmao::

[SPX]

Damn, what a dickhead!

[Luke]

http://img574.imageshack.us/img574/1041/gspkos.gif


Ok tell us what this is suppose to be ? We dont see the image

[SPX]

Oh. . . I thought you saw it before it crapped out.

It WAS a gif of GSP, Fitch, and Kos taken from A Christmas Story.

[Luke]

Oh. . . I thought you saw it before it crapped out.

It WAS a gif of GSP, Fitch, and Kos taken from A Christmas Story.


oh I just figured it was a picture of something

[SPX]

oh I just figured it was a picture of something

Nah, it was kind of funny. Someone posted it on SD earlier.

[poopoo333]

“I see myself giving the fans entertaining fights and the UFC can put me anywhere they want, they can have me fight anybody and I will fight him and put on a good show. Its not like I want a title shot as soon as possible – I am 22. I am trying to improve my game with every fight and I am doing that so far. I have, in my opinion, 15 to 18 years of competition ahead of me and I am loving my job. I couldn’t be more thankful for the way things are going.”

Struve then turned his attentions to his UFC 124 opponent, Sean McCorkle, a fighter that’s spent a great deal of his time on The Underground forum talking trash about the towering Dutchman.

“I don’t really care about what he has been saying to me. He got me focused and… I think he is a funny dude. That’s all. Its gonna be a good fight and I am probably gonna knock him out. I am pretty sure I am going to stop him.”

“I’ve seen his fights before [he joined] the UFC and I am not impressed with his fights at all. He won against Mark Hunt but Mark Hunt had lost his last six fights, so… its like, you can go 40-0 by beating guys who are 5-40, you know? You can go on forever but now he is in the big league so he is in trouble.”

Struve is coming off an impressive second round TKO win over Christian Morecraft at UFC 117 in August. Prior to that he’d had a three-fight winning streak snapped when he went down early at the hands of “Ultimate Fighter” season ten winner, Roy Nelson.

As for McCorkle, this monster cut down from his natural 320 pound frame to make the 265 pound limit to take on veteran Mark Hunt at UFC 119 last month. He was taken down early in the fight but managed to secure a sickening kimura which snapped the former K-1 stars arm.

[zY|]

This has got to be the best UFC trailer ever.

[youtube:sszit6r6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqQxz49gT_Q[/youtube:sszit6r6]

[YoungTRK484]

Nice trailer. Got me pumped a bit, love the song in the background of course and they do a goodjob of making a potnential Kos blowout loss look competitive. I bet those are not actaully Kos and GSP's arms ripping down those photos though. Marketing 101 there.

[Luke]

http://www.bestfightodds.com/fights/3239.png

[MMA_scientist]

really? Why is Struve favored so much? Is it because of all the wins that he has over top competition? Or is it because he has never been dropped by a big brawler with heavy hands?

[poopoo333]

really? Why is Struve favored so much? Is it because of all the wins that he has over top competition? Or is it because he has never been dropped by a big brawler with heavy hands?

My sarcasm detector is working today.

[MMA_scientist]

Seriously though, that line is dumb. Struve might win, I know nothing of McCorkle's work except that he kimura'd Hunt, which means he is at least passable on the ground. But Struve is now and ever shall be a mid level guy, he shouldn't be -260 over any UFC HW. I am probably going to toss a value play on McCorkle, but going to wait for the line to open elsewhere.

[Luke]

Lol sportsbet opens the line at Struve -260 McCorkle +180 ,5dimes has the line at Struve +110 McCorkle -150 .

Someones got a bad number up .I say its sportsbet.com

[MMA_scientist]

Figures... when it opens at one of my books the value is gone. Oh well.

I would put it at -115 for both guys.

Raw potential versus established mediocrity

Maybe slight edge to McCorkle because Struve got dropped by Buentello and Nelson, and a man the size of McCorkle HAS to have power.

[MMA_scientist]

I see it opened at +180 on 5dimes too. Money came in fast and dropped it. I think it will come back to close to even.

[edman5555]

Fuck I can't believe I missed Mccorkle. Motherfucker. I wanted to bet that. +180

[edman5555]

I think Jim Miller has a good shot at beating Oliv. He will take him down, he is big as hell. He seems to have good BJJ. He should be able to stop oliv from subbing him..maybe.

[edman5555]

I hate the way lines move so FAST. Unless you catch the line in 5 minutes, it can be gone. Like BJ at +130.

[poopoo333]

Alves -305
Howard +245
-------------------------------

Stevenson -290
Danzig +230


The Alves line will get way better imo

[Luke]

European books have had Alves at -240 for weeks so your probably right it will go down

[poopoo333]

I think Stevenson is a horrible match up for Danzig. I think the UFC is trying to get rid of Danzig. He gets a "gimme" @ UFC 109, then a more even fight @ UFC 115 which ended in that controversial submission, then they give him the type of guy that eats Danzig for breakfast.

[MMA_scientist]

.5u on Howard @ +235

I think Alves' striking is totally overrated and Howard looked fast and dangerous against Ellenberger. My big concern here is that Howard could probably make 155 and Alves is obviously a huge "welterweight" (are you really in the weight class id you come in 7 pounds heavy?)

[poopoo333]

Thoughts on Oliveira and Miller? At first I was thinking Oliveira, but IIRC Escudero was beating him until Escudero kicked him in the balls and made him go crazy. It might just be smart to stay away because we haven't seen enough of Oliveira against top competition.

[MMA_scientist]

^ Oliveira won rounds 1 and 2 by most accounts, then he subbed him in round 3. Escudero wanted to strike in that fight, but I think it would have ended eariler if he tried to take him down.

Oliveira has won every fight inside the distance.

I think it is a tough fight though. Oliveira has a more dynamic striking style, with all the flying kicks and stuff, but I think Miller is a better boxer. But Miller is short and Oliveira can kick. Miller has an underrated ground game and unless Oliveira is even better than people are saying, he won't sub Miller. I think the line is just about right as it is just about even. If either guy becomes an underdog, I would say they are worth a bet. Miller could win it via control, but Oliveira has that style on his back that is very hard to control and makes guys want to get out of there. But Miller is a bjj bb himself.

I would give a slight edge to Oliveira personally just because of his reach. But Miller gets to decide where to fight most likely.

[poopoo333]

^ Oliveira won rounds 1 and 2 by most accounts, then he subbed him in round 3. Escudero wanted to strike in that fight, but I think it would have ended eariler if he tried to take him down.

Hmm, alright, then my "IIRC"=I didn't recall correctly, thanks.

[Luke]

Didnt realize these odds were out

http://www.bestfightodds.com/fights/3251.png

[sbjj]

.5u on Howard @ +235

I think Alves' striking is totally overrated and Howard looked fast and dangerous against Ellenberger. My big concern here is that Howard could probably make 155 and Alves is obviously a huge "welterweight" (are you really in the weight class id you come in 7 pounds heavy?)


This to me is spot on. I also agree that Alves striking is severly overrated. The guy was outstruck by Fischer and Lytle(at least towards the end). He is basically living off his showing against Hughes and KOS. But in all actuality the only guy I have seen him hurt from standing STRIKES is KOS. At least recently. i think Howard has a real shot here. Howard is tough and resiliant. Alves seems to have a hard time with guys who just do not fold.

[SPX]

^^^ Remember he knocked out Karo, too.

[sbjj]

^^^ Remember he knocked out Karo, too.


Yea, so did Hallman. The Karo fight actually proves my point. Karo was BEATING Alves until Alves got him with a knee. Karo was actually beating Alves standing before that.

[edman5555]

I have always considered him overrated and one dimensional. However he is still a pretty good striker.

[poopoo333]

hmm here is a list of prelim fights, I am going to look at these early just in case there are good opening lines (guess who has a bookmaker account now?)

Bocek vs Hazelett

Jesse Bongfeldt vs Rafael Natal

Matt Riddle vs Sean Pierson

Joe Doerkson vs Dan Miller

TJ Grant vs Ricardo Almeida

Pat Audinwood vs John Makdessi

[edman5555]

I wouldn't be too quick to underrate Alves. He is good.

[SPX]

(guess who has a bookmaker account now?)


::clap::

'Bout damn time!

[zY|]

alves might be a little overrated but John Howard should be 1-4 in the ufc.

[edman5555]

Alves should take this one.

[sbjj]

I'm pretty sure no one is saying that Alves sucks and is no good. Just that he is(might be) overrated.

[sbjj]

Alves should take this one.

Yea he SHOULD. He is damn near a 3 to 1 fave.

[SPX]

I was originally thinking I'd be on Alves up to -300, but at the current line I'm thinking it's probably a small play on Howard or nothing.

Is Alves going to have a bad weight cut? Will he get KOd by one of those super punches that Howard apparently has the ability to occasionally throw? Will Howard surprise us and win a decision via wrestling? Or will he win a decision by actually outstriking Alves? (sbjj has a point about Alves getting outstruck by Karo before the knockout.)

I don't know, but I might risk ~.35ish units to win one just in case. But at this point I will not bet Alves.

[zY|]

I'm pretty sure no one is saying that Alves sucks and is no good. Just that he is(might be) overrated.

He might be, but still. Doomsday lost to McCrory AND Wilson, I don't care what the judges say. And Hallman was soundly beating him until Josh Rosenthal's inexplicable gift standup with 15 seconds left. The only fight he legitimately deserved to win was the Daniel Roberts KO. This guy shouldn't even be in the UFC.

[SPX]

He might be, but still. Doomsday lost to McCrory AND Wilson, I don't care what the judges say. And Hallman was soundly beating him until Josh Rosenthal's inexplicable gift standup with 15 seconds left. The only fight he legitimately deserved to win was the Daniel Roberts KO. This guy shouldn't even be in the UFC.

I would've agreed before the Roberts KO and subsequent performance against Ellenberger. Even though it was a loss, he was handling Ellenberger pretty good on the feet (clearly winning in that department) and wasn't doing terrible on the ground either. If nothing else, he was able to make Ellenberger look like shit in victory, which neither Condit nor Pyle were able to do.

[edman5555]

Yeah ZY is correct. I looked up the play by plays for all his fights. He barely wins against some lower tier guys. I don't know if he will have a great shot at outwrestling Thiago though, Koscheck couldn't do it. I am not an expert on striking but Alves seems to better to me. I would at least wait until the weigh ins, see how Alves looks.

[poopoo333]

What do you guys think about Stevenson/Danzig? I really like Stevenson here, but I am hesitant to take him @ -300.

[SPX]

What do you guys think about Stevenson/Danzig? I really like Stevenson here, but I am hesitant to take him @ -300.

I'm thinking hard about this one, too. Stevenson's no world beater. But then again, he's fighting . . . Danzig.

Stevenson always does good against guys who aren't champs, ex-champs, or possible future champs (with the exception of Josh Neer). But he's beat Spencer Fisher, Diaz, Pellegrino, Guillard. . . And lost to G-Sot, Penn, Florian, and Neer in the UFC.

Granted, Danzig has mostly just lost to some pretty tough guys (Guida, Neer, Miller) and has caught some tough breaks (Wiman), but his best win is probably Mark Bocek.

In any case, Danzig is fighting for his life here and he knows it. It's hard to know how that's going to affect his game.

[poopoo333]

In any case, Danzig is fighting for his life here and he knows it. It's hard to know how that's going to affect his game.

Danzig was also "fighting for his life" @ UFC 109 against Buchholz and it was a closer fight then most would expect IIRC. I really think Stevenson will be able to stick to Danzig like glue and control him. Guida did it, Miller did it, Bocek even did it before he gassed. I also think Stevenson has the advantage in the striking.

[SPX]

Danzig was also "fighting for his life" @ UFC 109 against Buchholz and it was a closer fight then most would expect IIRC. I really think Stevenson will be able to stick to Danzig like glue and control him. Guida did it, Miller did it, Bocek even did it before he gassed. I also think Stevenson has the advantage in the striking.

Yeah, his fight at 109 was a loser leaves town fight. And the first round was pretty close, but Danzig pulled away in the second and even got the stoppage.

But yeah, I do think Stevenson will win. I will probably bet him, actually. I just hope the line doesn't get worse between now and the time I make that decision.

[poopoo333]

Yeah, his fight at 109 was a loser leaves town fight. And the first round was pretty close, but Danzig pulled away in the second and even got the stoppage.

No he didn't. Danzig won a 29-28 decision. Here is the play by play:

JUSTIN BUCHHOLZ VS. MAC DANZIG

Round 1 - Referee Herb Dean calls the fight.Buchholz leaps after Danzig with a kick. Danzig returns and catchesBuchholz with a right hand. Danzig follows with a leg kick. Danzig dances into a leg kick.Buchholz misses with punches and a high kick.Buchholz throwing a lot but little is landing. Danzig chases in an misses a takedown and subsequent punch. Superman punch misses fromBuchholz.Buchholz with a body kick. Danzig with straight right. The two lock up in the clinch and trade shots.Buchholz misses with a follow up kick. Danzig lands a left hook. Then a jab. Danzig follows a missed punch combo with a leg kick.Buchholz charges in with punches and gets nothing. Then suddenly,Buchholz catches him with a shot that rattles him.Buchholz swarms in as Danzig covers up, but Danzig regains composure and escapes.Buchholz with a nice lead hook. A body shot and hook land forBuchholz in an exchange. Danzig with straight right and leg kick.Buchholz corners a covered up Danzig. Nothing lands. Danzig charges back and lands a body shot. Danzig locks in the clinch and lands a knee before breaking off. A lead right hand for Danzig follows. The two clinch against the cage.Buchholz locks in a clinch but can't do any damage. Busy, busy round. MMAjunkie.com scores the round 10-9 for Danzig.

Round 2 - Danzig eats a jab as he comes in with one of his own. Danzig lands a hook and leg kick before shooting in for the takedown. He can't get the single leg and the two clinch against the cage. Buchholz breaks off. Danzig with right hook. He attempts to follow with body kick but catches a few punches. Danzig shoots in and gets an easy double leg. From side mount, he throws elbows and gets knee on belly position. He transitions briefly to mount before Buchholz gets half-guard back. Buchholz works for a kimura and cranks away but Danzig doesn't seem too concerned. He's muscling out of it. But as Danzig attempts to put his knee on Buchholz's arm, Buchholz cranks it. Danzig adjusts and takes side mount. He transitions to full mount and takes Buchholz's back in the scramble. Buchholz keeps scrambling though, and Danzig fights unsuccessfully for an armbar in transition. Buchholz takes Danzig's guard and fights off elbows and Sakuraba punches to his head. Danzig reverses and pounds away at Buccholz as the round comes to an end. MMAjunkie.com scores the round 10-9 Danzig. Dean gives Danzig a warning for the elbows to the head.

Round 3 - Danzig punches in with a hook and a body kick and drags Buchholz to the mat. Buchholz stands and fires back with punches to get Danzig off him. Danzig eats a few punches as he advances. Danzig with body shot. Buchholz with a straight right. Buchholz clinches and the two go to the cage. Danzig reverses and tries to shoulder throw Buchholz to the mat. He's unsuccessful and ends up on bottom with Buchholz in his guard. Danzig sits up and hammers away at Buchholz's ears. Danzig sits up and throws rabbit punches until Dean stands them up. He catches Buchholz with an uppercut and a punch-kick combination but can't hurt Buchholz enough before an escape. Danzig with a nick body shot combo and hook to the head. Danzig takes the fight down and pounds away in half guard before taking Buchholz's back in transition. Buchholz rolls and Danzig gets mount. Danzig hints at an armbar and takes Buchholz's back in the final ten seconds. He's a hair away from the choke, but settles for pounding at Buchholz's sides to close out the fight. MMAjunkie.com scores the round 10-9 for Danzig. All three judges score the bout 29-28 for Mac Danzig. Mac Danzig def. Justin Buchholz via Unanimous Decision (29-28, 29-28, 29-28)

[SPX]

Oh, my bad. For some reason I thought he choked him out in the second.

[poopoo333]

Oh, my bad. For some reason I thought he choked him out in the second.

Yeah, I think I will end up betting Stevenson for sure. If the line stays stagnant this week I will be able to get them cheaper than -300 because of the 5dimes reduced juice

[MMA_scientist]

Stevenson should win that for sure. I will consider Stevenson by decision for better odds... that fight is going to the cards.

[poopoo333]

Stevenson should win that for sure. I will consider Stevenson by decision for better odds... that fight is going to the cards.

Stevenson/Danzig goes distance is @-160 right now.

[edman5555]

I have a question about 5dimes:

If you go into Straight bets. Then UFC. What is the o and u for 3.5 in the Total Points column mean? I would think it is the over under but the column title is "total points".


Anyone know for sure?

[edman5555]

Why do you think Stevenson finishes it?

[Luke]

I have a question about 5dimes:

If you go into Straight bets. Then UFC. What is the o and u for 3.5 in the Total Points column mean? I would think it is the over under but the column title is "total points".


Anyone know for sure?


Its over /under how many rounds the fight will go , I'm 100% sure

[SPX]

Its over /under how many rounds the fight will go , I'm 100% sure

If it's 3.5 wouldn't that only make sense for championship fights?

[Luke]

Its over /under how many rounds the fight will go , I'm 100% sure

If it's 3.5 wouldn't that only make sense for championship fights?


Well the 3.5 rounds is for the GSP-KOS matchup so..............

[SPX]

Well the 3.5 rounds is for the GSP-KOS matchup so..............

Well that was not stated.

[poopoo333]

I wonder what the Doerkson/Miller line is gonna be...

Miller by guillotine.

[SPX]

I wonder what the Doerkson/Miller line is gonna be...

Miller by guillotine.

I don't know about that. If Doerksen is any kind of a significant dog I will be on him.

[Luke]

Well the 3.5 rounds is for the GSP-KOS matchup so..............

Well that was not stated.


Well you should have looked before spouting off poopoo

[SPX]

Well you should have looked before spouting off poopoo

I just asked a question, douchebag.

Besides, I don't use 5dimes ever since losing all my money of fucking Diego Sanchez, if you don't remember.

[Luke]

Well you should have looked before spouting off poopoo

I just asked a question, douchebag.

Besides, I don't use 5dimes ever since losing all my money of fucking Diego Sanchez, if you don't remember.


LOL I love people .

I checked to see what edmann was talking about so I could give him the right answer , you didnt check anything and then questioned my answer and now you're mad at me .

I was joking obv thats why I called you poopoo .

[SPX]

LOL I love people .

I checked to see what edmann was talking about so I could give him the right answer , you didnt check anything and then questioned my answer and now you're mad at me .

I was joking obv thats why I called you poopoo .

Don't make me come to Ohio and kick your ass.

[Luke]

LOL I love people .

I checked to see what edmann was talking about so I could give him the right answer , you didnt check anything and then questioned my answer and now you're mad at me .

I was joking obv thats why I called you poopoo .

Don't make me come to Ohio and kick your ass.


Ohio blows you wouldnt like it here ::thumbdown::

[Thewiseman]

.4u on Danzig @ +250. Hes gonna lose but I think it may be close.
.5u on Kos @ +360. Hes gonna lose but will make it close.
2u on Kos/GSP goes the distance @ +115

[edman5555]

"hes gonna lose"

[poopoo333]

TJ Grant/Ricardo Almeida..thoughts?

I think Grant may have better striking, but his losses are to Kim and Hendricks...both grapplers. Does Almeida have the TDs and top control like Kim and Hendricks do?

[edman5555]

I have no idea but I may be betting Kim to beat Nate diaz down the road.

[SPX]

WAR DHK!

[poopoo333]

Yeah I think DHK will do well, but I can see him gassing out in mid-late 2nd round and Diaz just turning it up.

[edman5555]

is he a gasser?

[poopoo333]

is he a gasser?

Not sure, it depends on his diet I guess.

[MMA_scientist]

TJ Grant/Ricardo Almeida..thoughts?

I think Grant may have better striking, but his losses are to Kim and Hendricks...both grapplers. Does Almeida have the TDs and top control like Kim and Hendricks do?

Almeida has really string control and takedowns. I don't know if he will beat Grant or not though. I can't decide if Grant is that good or Hendricks is that bad... I am so confused now.

[poopoo333]

Almeida has really string control and takedowns. I don't know if he will beat Grant or not though. I can't decide if Grant is that good or Hendricks is that bad... I am so confused now.

Well I read the play by play since I couldn't find the videos, but Hendricks was able to take Grant down a lot. I am pretty sure Grant is primarily a grappler, I had it stuck in my mind that he was primarily a striker due to Rogan's comments about Grant training in Thailand for the Hendricks fight. Grant has 16 wins, 12 of them are by submission, that leads me to believe he is a grappler (Grant initiated the grappling with Paulino, attempted to grapple with Kim but got outgrappled easily, and by reading the play by play, Chonan and Grant seemed pretty even on the mat). So I am guessing Grant is a grappler, but not good enough to hang with the "good grapplers". At first I thought Grant would have a good shot of winning, but after some looking around I think Almeida wins this easy.

[MMA_scientist]

If it were a grappling match, Almeida would kill him. BUt Grant has really strong knees, and Almeida got rocked by Hughes... but yeah, my initial instinct was Almeida would have value after the Hughes fight.

[poopoo333]

If it were a grappling match, Almeida would kill him. BUt Grant has really strong knees, and Almeida got rocked by Hughes... but yeah, my initial instinct was Almeida would have value after the Hughes fight.

Yeah, I have thought about the possibility of Grant getting Almeida with some knees, along with Almeida possibly being gun shy after the Hughes fight. I am not sure, but wasn't Hughes out striking Almeida before the big punch? If so, Grant DEFINITELY has the striking advantage.

[MMA_scientist]

I think Almeida was actually getting the better of it up until he got dropped. Almeida has been in there with some fine strikers and done fine.

[poopoo333]

http://www.oddschecker.com/other-sports ... ida/winner (http://www.oddschecker.com/other-sports/mma-ufc/mma-ufc/tj-grant-v-ricardo-almeida/winner)

Not sure what those odds mean though

[Luke]

http://www.oddschecker.com/other-sports/mma-ufc/mma-ufc/tj-grant-v-ricardo-almeida/winner

Not sure what those odds mean though


That isnt the real odds . Those odds say Almeida is -700 and Grant is
-250 which is impossible


Betfair is a betting exchange not a sportsbook so anyone can put odds up. you know what I mean?

[poopoo333]

^^ah ok I understand.




[youtube:12qy0wuq]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpkjn8Wufz8[/youtube:12qy0wuq]


"Koscheck jumps in from far away," Roach told FightHubtv.com. "I told (Georges) to not pull away from that and beat that on the counter. I told him, 'I think you'll knock him out with the left hook in that fight.'"

[SPX]

^^^ LOL. Has GSP EVER straight knocked anyone out?

[zY|]

^^^ LOL. Has GSP EVER straight knocked anyone out?

He knocked Matt Hughes out twice in one fight, and he pretty much KOd Jay Hieron as well. Doesn't mean much anyways. We know if GSP sits down on his punches he can hurt people. He knocked down Alves and blasted Fitch all over the cage but Fitch was essentially unkillable. So yes, if he's able to properly counter Kos, he certainly could knock him out. Will he? Depends on how the fight goes but I don't think it's too likely. This is just like any other training partner saying his guy will win.

[SPX]

^^^ He's never put anyone to sleep and I'd be straight surprised if he did so to Kos.

[zY|]

^^^ He's never put anyone to sleep and I'd be straight surprised if he did so to Kos.

Define "sleep". Is there a set amount of time a person must be unconscious to be considered so? Does someone have to be flat on their back with their legs twitching to be considered knocked out? Cmon. He legit knocked Hughes out and Hieron collapsed like a sack of potatoes. If Paulo Thiago can do it Georges can. His gameplan just generally doesn't warrant the opportunity to do so.

[SPX]

Scott Smith last night = sleep.

[zY|]

Scott Smith last night = sleep.

You are going to lose this argument.

[SPX]

You are going to lose this argument.

You asked my opinion and I gave it to you.

And you and I both know GSP is no knockout machine.

[poopoo333]

Fun fact: McCorkles opponents combined record = 73-98. One of these guys is 29-44.

McCorkle used to be 320 lbs for all of his fights and now he has to reach the 265 limit, that is why he is so big and fat in the following vids. McCorkle hasn't straight up KOd anybody, he just ends up with big fat guys (seriously, for entertainment youtube the guys he has fought) on the ground and throws punches while they are both gassed. Struve has proven to have a good chin/recovery (except in the Nelson fight). Struve doesn't have the best gas tank either, but McCorkle is going to gas hard in this fight imo. My only concern is that McCorkle may somehow have decent conditioning now since he isn't a big fat guy anymore.


Some of McCorkles fights:

[youtube:3vm74lfj]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7pfpTt_nY0[/youtube:3vm74lfj]

[youtube:3vm74lfj]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6LcYwpggiA[/youtube:3vm74lfj]

[youtube:3vm74lfj]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3USGkmYWCU[/youtube:3vm74lfj]

LOL
[youtube:3vm74lfj]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3USGkmYWCU[/youtube:3vm74lfj]
LOL

[youtube:3vm74lfj]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPClD8emiGI[/youtube:3vm74lfj]

[MMA_scientist]

^^ nice finds. I wouldn't be surprised to see McCorkle get the better of it for a round and then Struve's superior technique take over. Unless the line goes wild, I won't be betting it.

[poopoo333]

^^ nice finds. I wouldn't be surprised to see McCorkle get the better of it for a round and then Struve's superior technique take over. Unless the line goes wild, I won't be betting it.

Yeah, I can see McCorkle getting the better of it for like...a half a round. If McCorkle gasses like he did in those videos I posted, Struve isn't also going to be like "ok I am tired too, let me take a knee real quick", he is going to pick up the pace. Struve has only looked tired once in the UFC, and that was in the Buentello fight where he worked for a finish on Buentello's back for the majority of the round and ended up in a slugfest with him in the 2nd. I don't know, I just can't find myself to believe that a guy that has a career of beating up guys like this:

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/images/users/resume/261467.jpg

should only be +125 to Struve.

[MMA_scientist]

What do you guys think about Stevenson/Danzig? I really like Stevenson here, but I am hesitant to take him @ -300.

I'm thinking hard about this one, too. Stevenson's no world beater. But then again, he's fighting . . . Danzig... In any case, Danzig is fighting for his life here and he knows it. It's hard to know how that's going to affect his game.

I just don't think Danzig has to the tools to beat Stevenson. Stevenson is the better wrestler and grappler. I think the hands are about even. I just don't see a path to victory for Danzig. I think he will make a fight of it and lose a decision. Danzig is a solid well rounded guy, but he doesn't have a dominant skill. The best part of his game is is ground game IMO, but Stevenson is better.

I am worried about Stevenson's fram of mind though. I think he has put away his title aspirations, and he is just kind of fighting now. I am more worried about his mindset than Mac's.

[MMA_scientist]

Yeah, I can see McCorkle getting the better of it for like...a half a round. If McCorkle gasses like he did in those videos I posted, Struve isn't also going to be like "ok I am tired too, let me take a knee real quick", he is going to pick up the pace. Struve has only looked tired once in the UFC, and that was in the Buentello fight where he worked for a finish on Buentello's back for the majority of the round and ended up in a slugfest with him in the 2nd. I don't know, I just can't find myself to believe that a guy that has a career of beating up guys like this...should only be +125 to Struve.

Yeah, but Struve isn't that good either. Between the two of them, McCorkle probably has the best win (Hunt). But Struve has definitely been fighting tougher comp consistently and he has proven himself over a few different styles, he beat a fat wrestler in Gormley and a striker in Buentello. BUt I think Struve is mostly a product of UFC marketing. He just isn't very good IMO. But you are right, McCorkle looks like shit in those vids.

I am with you though, I think Struve will take over with his reach and better technique somewhere between round 1 and 2. But I can't bet it.

[poopoo333]

I am worried about Stevenson's fram of mind though. I think he has put away his title aspirations, and he is just kind of fighting now. I am more worried about his mindset than Mac's.

I thought of this as well. Skip to 2:10:

[youtube:2fgb81su]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAQafADs5wg[/youtube:2fgb81su]

[poopoo333]

Yeah, but Struve isn't that good either. Between the two of them, McCorkle probably has the best win (Hunt). But Struve has definitely been fighting tougher comp consistently and he has proven himself over a few different styles, he beat a fat wrestler in Gormley and a striker in Buentello. BUt I think Struve is mostly a product of UFC marketing. He just isn't very good IMO. But you are right, McCorkle looks like shit in those vids.

I am with you though, I think Struve will take over with his reach and better technique somewhere between round 1 and 2. But I can't bet it.

Yeah, what worries me about Struve in this fight is that he will end up on his back and receive some heavy shots. This is what happened in the Stojnic and Morecraft fight. The only time besides the Nelson fight when he was rocked standing was against Buentello, but that was when he jumped in the air from across the ring and just got caught.

Basically, I have talked myself into betting Struve. For the record, I was originally considering McCorkle because I knew he was a huge guy that took everyone out in the first round (kind of like Travis Browne's record before coming to the UFC), but the stuff I found on McCorkle just made me ::lmao::

[poopoo333]

On a side note:


Stefan Struve pees sitting down


Stefan Struve likes black guys. Just sayin .


Stefan Struve and I will be half naked, sweaty, and wrestling around with each other. Then a few days later, we'll fight


The only thing Stefan Struve has ever finished in his whole life is "another guy off"


If I were a woman or a gay man, Stefan Struve would definitely not be my type.

[MMA_scientist]

^^ Well, that line has been all over the place, at one point Struve was an underdog. I think this fight is a case of a question mark versus and established C+ guy. I don't think there is anyway to reliably cap it, but I would take Struve just because he has shown he can weather some storms, he can go 3 rounds, and he has at least passable striking and submissions.

are those from McCorkle's twitter or something? He's not funny and trying too hard...

[poopoo333]

[youtube:3dxwps7j]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpkjn8Wufz8[/youtube:3dxwps7j]

"Koscheck jumps in from far away," Roach told FightHubtv.com. "I told (Georges) to not pull away from that and beat that on the counter. I told him, 'I think you'll knock him out with the left hook in that fight.'"

Just watched Alves/Koscheck. Alves rocked and almost finished Koscheck from a left hook counter in this exact same situation.

[zY|]

The Uncle Jesse av is just fan-freakin-tastic.

[MMA_scientist]

^ thanks. I did it as a tribute to you and as self imposed fine for thinking that Hendricks could beat GSP.

[Luke]

The Uncle Jesse av is just fan-freakin-tastic.


Someone please explain the uncle jesse thing because i'm lost

[sbjj]

[youtube:1ghafigx]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpkjn8Wufz8[/youtube:1ghafigx]

"Koscheck jumps in from far away," Roach told FightHubtv.com. "I told (Georges) to not pull away from that and beat that on the counter. I told him, 'I think you'll knock him out with the left hook in that fight.'"

Just watched Alves/Koscheck. Alves rocked and almost finished Koscheck from a left hook counter in this exact same situation.


First thing I thought of after I watched the Roach video. There is little doubt in my mind that GSP can stop KOS if he takes Roach's advice. But if he does, he will leave himself open for takedowns.

I actually think GSP should keep this fight standing. I think he is the much more polished striker, and really only has to worry about the overhand right.

[SPX]

I actually think GSP should keep this fight standing. I think he is the much more polished striker, and really only has to worry about the overhand right.

I think this is probably true. He really just needs to go the same route he went with Fitch where he keeps it on the feet and tags Kos over and over. The difference though, as you imply in your post, is that Kos has a certain KO ability that Fitch lacks.

[sbjj]

I actually think GSP should keep this fight standing. I think he is the much more polished striker, and really only has to worry about the overhand right.

I think this is probably true. He really just needs to go the same route he went with Fitch where he keeps it on the feet and tags Kos over and over. The difference though, as you imply in your post, is that Kos has a certain KO ability that Fitch lacks.


Totally agree. Kos is simply a more dangerous fighter than Fitch as it pertains to GSP.

[zY|]

The Uncle Jesse av is just fan-freakin-tastic.


Someone please explain the uncle jesse thing because i'm lost

His real name is Jesse.

[MMA_scientist]

I think GSP will come in wanting to mix it up. He will probably do what he did with Alves... some rounds he will stand and some he will go for the TD.

I think GSP wins, but Kos is the only play at the current line. I am actually considering betting Kos... The problem is that I don't see how Kos wins other than a fluke shot.

[MMA_scientist]

His real name is Jesse.

I don't even know how you know that. I am also an uncle and kind of fat. I am also very wise like uncle Jesse. Although I have never worn overalls even once in my life.

[zY|]

[quote="zY|":1n86o7jy]His real name is Jesse.

I don't even know how you know that. I am also an uncle and kind of fat. I am also very wise like uncle Jesse. Although I have never worn overalls even once in my life.[/quote:1n86o7jy]

It was in some bjj video of you that you posted awhile back. I only remember because I looked up your website. I don't buy that you don't wear overalls.

[MMA_scientist]

GSP spending some time with Roger (or is Roger spending some time with GSP?)

http://www.graciemag.com/en/2010/11/gsp ... ernational (http://www.graciemag.com/en/2010/11/gsps-jiu-jitsu-and-his-meeting-with-roger-gracie/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=Feed:+Graciemag+(GRACIEMAG+Internatio nal))&utm_content=FaceBook

[MMA_scientist]

It was in some bjj video of you that you posted awhile back. I only remember because I looked up your website. I don't buy that you don't wear overalls.

ah. That makes sense...

overalls are kind of a badass article of clothing, they pants/suspenders/tank top all in one. They can be worn with or without shirt.

But although I have lived in some fairly rural areas, I have always been in the suburbs. I wouldn't know what to do with some overalls. When I was in Jr. High, some kids would wear their Guess overalls with one strap hanging, which (even at my impressionable young age) I knew was incredibly gay. I pegged my pants like a champ though.

[poopoo333]

I am thinking about trying out a magic prop parlay this weekend. Here are the lines


Sat 12/11 1203 McCorkle/Struve goes 3 round distance +240
10:00PM 1204 Fight won't go 3 round distance -320
Sat 12/11 1205 McCorkle wins inside distance +180
10:00PM 1206 Not McCorkle inside distance -260
Sat 12/11 1207 McCorkle wins by 3 round decision +555
10:00PM 1208 Not McCorkle by 3 round decision -1065
Sat 12/11 1209 Struve wins inside distance +116
10:00PM 1210 Not Struve inside distance -156
Sat 12/11 1211 Struve wins by 3 round decision +440
10:00PM 1212 Not Struve by 3 round decision -720
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sat 12/11 1303 Oliveira/Miller goes 3 round distance -175
10:00PM 1304 Fight won't go 3 round distance +135
Sat 12/11 1305 Oliveira wins inside distance +283
10:00PM 1306 Not Oliveira inside distance -403
Sat 12/11 1307 Oliveira wins by 3 round decision +174
10:00PM 1308 Not Oliveira by 3 round decision -242
Sat 12/11 1309 Miller wins inside distance +400
10:00PM 1310 Not Miller inside distance -600
Sat 12/11 1311 Miller wins by 3 round decision +226
10:00PM 1312 Not Miller by 3 round decision -306
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sat 12/11 1403 Danzig/Stevenson goes 3 round distance -160
9:30PM 1404 Fight won't go 3 round distance +120
Sat 12/11 1405 Danzig wins inside distance +482
9:30PM 1406 Not Danzig inside distance -845
Sat 12/11 1407 Danzig wins by 3 round decision +475
9:30PM 1408 Not Danzig by 3 round decision -825
Sat 12/11 1409 Stevenson wins inside distance +210
9:30PM 1410 Not Stevenson inside distance -290
Sat 12/11 1411 Stevenson wins by 3 round decision +107
9:30PM 1412 Not Stevenson by 3 round decision -147
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sat 12/11 1503 Howard/Alves goes 3 round distance -115
9:00PM 1504 Fight won't go 3 round distance -125
Sat 12/11 1505 Howard wins inside distance +460
9:00PM 1506 Not Howard inside distance -780
Sat 12/11 1507 Howard wins by 3 round decision +481
9:00PM 1508 Not Howard by 3 round decision -842
Sat 12/11 1509 Alves wins inside distance +148
9:00PM 1510 Not Alves inside distance -188
Sat 12/11 1511 Alves wins by 3 round decision +161
9:00PM 1512 Not Alves by 3 round decision -211

[MMA_scientist]

I am thinking about trying out a magic prop parlay this weekend. Here are the lines



Well, they are working out fabulously for me. Wait until Friday though, you need the KO/TKO and submission props to make it work. A couple of things I have learned: Hedge it a little if you also have money on a guy straight up; it is better to have 5 things that are NOT going to happen in this world (like Grove subbing Maia) than 3 things that probably won't happen.

I am going to do a couple for this event.

I am thinking:

Not Kos by submission/Not Grant by submission/Not Danzig ITD and maybe one more like not Doerkson by submission. Not sure about the Danzig bet... I will just have to see how the lines are. If I can get the whole thing under -400, I am happy

[poopoo333]

I doubt you will get the not Grant by sub prop because it is a prelim. I am thinking about making a decent sized bet on Struve, but hedging it out a little with McCorkle by (T)KO. That is his only way to win imo

[Luke]

What your win/loss record so far on "magic" parlays ?

[MMA_scientist]

^ I didn't realize it was a prelim.

Re Struve: the heavier the weight class, the fewer decisions there are. Only 23% of HW fights go to the cards. http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/10/1/17 ... ight-class (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/10/1/1721043/ufc-by-numbers-finishing-rates-and-weight-class)

[MMA_scientist]

What your win/loss record so far on "magic" parlays ?


I did it at micro stakes for several months, just testing it. I have lost a couple, "Not Rampage by decision" got me at UFC 123, but I had Rampage by decision @ +1650, so I broke even anyway. But the only reason I hedged it was because I also had a flat bet on Machida too... I would have lost that one had it not been for the flat bet.

I also lost a micro stakes one when I first started testing it, I don't recall what the prop was though, another decision I am pretty sure.

I have won way more than that though, record is probably about 12-2 or so... but they are not even money, probably average about -250 or -300. So being 12-2 is really only about a bet or 2 ahead. But I feel like I am getting better at it, I am going less with the "Not X by decision..." As I don't feel that can really be foreseen... and because the judges will screw you. More with "Not X ITD" and "Not X by submission" and "fight goes the distance" as I think these are easier to predict.

[Luke]

^^^ cool, was just wondering

[edman5555]

Why do you feel struve will win?

[Johnny Unreliable]

Staying away from betting against Mccorckle after convincing myself that he would gas against Hunt. Think its about a toss up. Far too many questions remaining.

[edman5555]

Yeah Struve has a rough stand up game but he is a good all around fighter. We don't know much about McCorkle other than he started out doing jiu jitsu and he has really heavy hands.

[poopoo333]

3u on Struve

[Thewiseman]

Kos by KO/TKO .1u to win 1u
Stevenson/Danzig goes the disatance 1.6u to win 1u

[poopoo333]

Koscheck by tko @ +1075 is a great deal...just threw 0.2u on it

[MMA_scientist]

GSP by decision is + odds. I think that is the most likely outcome. He didn't threaten to finish Kocheck last time.

[poopoo333]

Does anybody think miller will beat oliveira?

[MMA_scientist]

^^Funny you should ask. I have been looking at this fight all morning. I did not realize that Miller's only losses were to Edgar and Maynard. Oliveira is a question mark, as he has looked impressive against his competition, but Efrain took a round from him and was mostly winning the ground battle until Oliveira finally got on top.

On the flip side, Miller lost rounds to Danzig and Tibau just grappling. Miller got saved by the bell against Danzig. He would have been submitted if there were 10 more seconds in that round. Oliveira has an active guard game and looks tough to control. Oliveira should also have a standup edge with his leg kicks.

Bottom line, I still think it is close, but I would probably give a slight edge to Oliveira just because he has more ways to win it. But Miller could win a top control decision.

[poopoo333]

Yeah, we see it basically the same way. Bocek was also handling Miller on the ground and probably should have gotten the decision imo in their fight as well. I think this fight will either be a close one with Miller pulling off a decision, or Oliveira winning decisively and having a true "coming out party".

[sbjj]

I seriously do not recall Efrain taking a round from Oliveira. You sure you are not thinking of the Efrain-Dunham fight.

[edman5555]

I remember Oliv beating Efrain all rounds on my scorecard, but the judges gave Efrain R1. I think Oliveira may have pulled guard and Efrain got top position. You know how incompetant retard judges will evaluate that.

[poopoo333]

I remember Oliv beating Efrain all rounds on my scorecard, but the judges gave Efrain R1. I think Oliveira may have pulled guard and Efrain got top position. You know how incompetant retard judges will evaluate that.

Oliveira went for a takedown but actually ended up on his back to close out round 1. For some reason I keep thinking Escudero got the TD and stayed on top, even after watching the video again the other day. Escudero did stuff Oliveira a couple times in that fight, but in the 3rd round Escudero kicked him in the balls and Oliveira went apeshit afterwards fighting like a malfunctioned robot before throwing Escudero against the cage and slamming him down. So if Miller kicks Oliveira in the balls at least once, Oliveira should win for sure.

[MMA_scientist]

I seriously do not recall Efrain taking a round from Oliveira. You sure you are not thinking of the Efrain-Dunham fight.

SD gave Rd 1 to Efrain. It could have gone either way

[MMA_scientist]

Oliveira went for a takedown but actually ended up on his back to close out round 1. For some reason I keep thinking Escudero got the TD and stayed on top, even after watching the video again the other day. Escudero did stuff Oliveira a couple times in that fight, but in the 3rd round Escudero kicked him in the balls and Oliveira went apeshit afterwards fighting like a malfunctioned robot before throwing Escudero against the cage and slamming him down. So if Miller kicks Oliveira in the balls at least once, Oliveira should win for sure.

The grappling was somewhat competitive when it happened... I think Efrain nearly took his back at one point.

[poopoo333]

I think it is best to stay away from this fight, but I might take Miller if it gets up to like +140 or +150ish.

[SPX]

So if Miller kicks Oliveira in the balls at least once, Oliveira should win for sure.

LOL

[MMA_scientist]

Thinking about:

Not Kos by Sub/Not Danzig by sub/Not Alves by sub/Not Miller by sub/Not McCorkle wins in rd 3

4 to win .91u One more -1500 line would get me to about -275

What in that might happen? I think the weak link is McCorkle...

[poopoo333]

I don't see McCorkle finishing in round 3. If that fight is even remotely competitive and makes it to the 3rd round, McCorkle will be dead tired.

[MMA_scientist]

So what might lose? Where is the flaw?

McCorkle has never gone to round 3 before. I figure if McCorkle wins, it will be by top control or KO. If it doesn't happen in 10 mins, it probably won't happen. But then again, they are HW's and of all teh weightclasses, HW's seem to have the most 3rd round KO's (Mir/CC, Duffee)...

[poopoo333]

2.1u on Almeida
1u Audinwood

[poopoo333]

http://www.bestfightodds.com/events/313.png (http://www.bestfightodds.com)

[MMA_scientist]

Anybody know anything about Pierson or Bongfelt?

[poopoo333]

So what might lose? Where is the flaw?

McCorkle has never gone to round 3 before. I figure if McCorkle wins, it will be by top control or KO. If it doesn't happen in 10 mins, it probably won't happen. But then again, they are HW's and of all teh weightclasses, HW's seem to have the most 3rd round KO's (Mir/CC, Duffee)...

I was responding to your "weak link" comment. I think that parlay will hit. The most likely prop in that parlay to hit is Miller by sub, but only because I don't know how Oliveira's sub defense is (assuming it is good), and Miller is a black belt/NCAA div 1 wrestler and Oliveira is a brown belt.

[MMA_scientist]

Think I am gonna ride with you on Almeida.

[Thewiseman]

Considering Almeida.
.4u on Doerksen @ +275

[Thewiseman]

1.85u on the big dog

[poopoo333]

Think I am gonna ride with you on Almeida.

Yeah I like the line.

As for Bongfeldt, I could not find much on him, but he has fought mostly at welterweight his entire career and Natal is a MW. Bongfeldt looks like a sub guy by his record, but Natal is probably better on the ground. When looking at this fight the other day, I figured Natal would open at a high line, but I am reluctant on betting him because the lack of stuff I found on Bongfeldt. But Bongfeldt hasn't fought since September 2009....he was a late replacement for Macdonald. He is just a local Canadian guy they had to find for a late replacement. Natal will win imo

[poopoo333]

I just talked myself into it. 2u Natal

[MMA_scientist]

I was responding to your "weak link" comment. I think that parlay will hit. The most likely prop in that parlay to hit is Miller by sub, but only because I don't know how Oliveira's sub defense is (assuming it is good), and Miller is a black belt/NCAA div 1 wrestler and Oliveira is a brown belt.

Oliveira is a black belt, at leats he had one around his neck after one of his UFC fights. I thought of that same issue, so I looked at Oliveira's opponents in Brazil. He fought Alexandre Bezzera, who is very good submission guy and somewhat decorated at lower levels. Oliveira is also a purple belt mundials champ. You don't get that far even at purple without having some amazing submission defense. For reference, Ben Askren just entered Pan Ams at purple belt like last month, and he lost the first round.

Miller is tough and has a solid submission set, but he doesn't have the super slick submission game.

[poopoo333]

Glad I finally got bookmaker.

[poopoo333]

God damnit, Almeida is -185 now

[MMA_scientist]

The Hughes loss is going to keep that line low. That is why I am waiting for it to open at other books before I do it, if I do it.

I did a quick search on Bongfeldt. That should be a win for Natal, but Natal is not a wizard on the mat, and he has been KO'd several times (including once by Eduardo Telles, who is one of my favorite grapplers, but is not a striker at all... would be like getting KO'd by Rani Yahya or something).

[poopoo333]

I think all of my plays are locked in for this card right now.

I took Audinwood because he is more of a grappler. His opponent Makdessi is a flashy kickboxer from the Canadian circuit. 90% of the time I lean towards the grappler in this situation.

[MMA_scientist]

^ you know my theory on that. But I have to be convinced Audinwood is coming to grapple... I am going to look into that one too.

[MMA_scientist]

Oliveira is a black belt, at leats he had one around his neck after one of his UFC fights

you're right, it was a brown belt.

[MMA_scientist]

FYI, Oliveira telling it like it is: http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/09/13/c ... -is-above/ (http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/09/13/charles-oliveira-talks-efrain-escudero-fight-jiu-jitsu-is-above/)


Speaking with MMA Fighting last week, Oliveira (13-0) said he didn't bring in any wrestling-oriented sparring partners to mimic Escudero's style, mainly because he doesn't feel that he needs to. That's because in a head-to-head competition, according to Oliveira, jiu-jitsu is simply the superior ground fighting style.

"We have no wrestlers helping, because the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is better for the ground game," Oliveira said via an interpreter. "It's above the wrestling. I'm just training normally, nothing special."


Might make a difference in this fight... He might at least want to train against some wrestlers...

[SPX]

Might make a difference in this fight... He might at least want to train against some wrestlers...

Yeah. He's fighting int he UFC lightweight division. He might end up regretting that decision.

[Vandelay]

Miller vs Olivera

At first I was planning on betting on Miller, but after watching previous fights for both of these fighters, I will probably stay away. Miller is a UFC veteran with alot of fights under his belt. He is a solid fighter but thats it. He hasn't fought the best competition. He telegraphs most of his strikes, has mediocre takedown d, below avg power, good jui jitsu, and a good chin. Olivera has flashy, aggresive striking, good kicks, good bjj, and good wrestling. However, he is physically weak and I feel he is unlikely to sub miller unless he hurts him standing. Escudero and Elkins? or whoever his othe opponent was have little to no sub defense. I see ways each fighter can win. I may look to bet the over 2.5 rds due to neither fighter possessing ko power and the bjj canceling each other out. Only reason im hesistant is due to the fact olivera pushes a solid pace and is pretty aggresive so someone may gas out.

[Svino]

[quote="MMA_scientist":9m3mbrtr]Oliveira is a black belt, at leats he had one around his neck after one of his UFC fights

you're right, it was a brown belt.[/quote:9m3mbrtr]

I think his "MMA jiu-jitsu" is way above the brown-belt level.

[MMA_scientist]

^For sure. His bjj for bjj is probably at the competition blackbelt level too. But he just started training in 2005, which is why he is only a brown belt. There are exceptions, but most instructors follow a time table.

[poopoo333]

Scientist, did you jump on Almeida last night? Or did you wait? I almost want to throw more down on Almeida now @-175

[MMA_scientist]

Just now did it. 1.75 to win 1 on Almeida

[MMA_scientist]

I also pulled the trigger on the parlay.

Not Kos by sub/Not Alves by sub/Not Miller by sub/Not McCorkle in rd 3/Not Danzig by sub

4.4 to win 1

[poopoo333]

^^I was going to make the same one but using "Not Howard by sub" as the odds are better.

[MMA_scientist]

I considered that, but Alves has been caught in a few triangles and Howard has a good one.

[Mr. IWS]

I'm coming around on Alves. From what I have read, his weight cut has gone well. Also leaning towards Kos.

[poopoo333]

Sources close to the event have informed MMA DieHards that the lightweight bout between Dustin Hazelett and Mark Bocek and the middleweight matchup between Joe Doerksen and Dan Miller will air live on UFC.com, free of charge. The broadcast will begin at 9 p.m. ET.

[Mr. IWS]

What book can I use to get all those Parlays you do Scientist? You probably said it, but I dont remember.

[SPX]

What book can I use to get all those Parlays you do Scientist? You probably said it, but I dont remember.

5dimes

[Mr. IWS]

5dimes

::handshake::

I think Im gonna open one up for like 200 bucks, just to fuck around with those parlays. they seem like you can really make some money on those.

[MMA_scientist]

The boxing props they have are just ridiculous. They have like 100 different props for the Klitchko and Khan fights.

I resisted it for a long time. Honestly, it is quite addictive once you start, and it is the devil. It is even worse when you start doing wiseman specials. You are like "it's only a buck, and I can win $1000!" But then you just lose a buck. I almost always do a wiseman special for $1 just picking every fight on the card., just for fun and to sooth the action monster that rages in my belly.

But the other parlays have been hitting ok so far.
That said, I don't feel strongly about this event's magic parlay.

[Mr. IWS]

I like those like:

Not Alves via triangle / Not GSP via armbar

That sort of shit. Those could be fun.

[MMA_scientist]

I like those like:

Not Alves via triangle / Not GSP via armbar

That sort of shit. Those could be fun.

yeah, they don't get quite that specific, but that is what I target as well.

My whole thing about MMA betting has always been "control the variables." I try to pick my fights where I know what the battle will be, and that don't have a lot of external factors. So the "not' props to me are just an extension of that philosophy.

You pay a price though. If you were to bet "Not Koscheck by submission" all on it's own, it would have been -7200. I might have helped move the line, because it is -8900 now.

[edman5555]

What do you guys think about Mccorkle? Has anyone seen tape on his striking? Is he any good? I know he has a lot of knockouts but he is very large so it could just be due to that.

[Ludo]

His striking is sort of like Leonard Garcia without the total absence of technique. He throws alot of haymakers and not a whole lot else, but he's not quite so reckless with them. His ground game is really what he's good at.

[edman5555]

He seems to win mostly by tko/ko. I know he got started training BJJ but what is his belt level? How are his takedowns? I would think he could take down struve because he has got to be strong.

[poopoo333]

I am on my phone so I can't really link it but I have a post in this thread with some info on mccorkle.

[SPX]

You are like "it's only a buck, and I can win $1000!" But then you just lose a buck.

Yeah. It's true.

I had a seven fight mega parlay once where the first six fights hit and I got screwed on the last one. Varner vs Bendo.

It was something like $5 to win $169.

[poopoo333]

That happened to me too, but it was like a couple of bucks to win a thousand or a little more and I got one wrong. I was a sad poopoo

[edman5555]

I just watched Koscheck-GSP. GSP pretty much handled him, I think a lot of it comes down to striking. GSP is much better than Kos, which allows him to set up takedowns a lot better. I don't see why that should change.

[edman5555]

http://mmafightcentral.blogspot.com/201 ... -josh.html (http://mmafightcentral.blogspot.com/2010/09/ufc-74-georges-st-pierre-vs-josh.html)

[poopoo333]

I am on my phone so I can't really link it but I have a post in this thread with some info on mccorkle.


viewtopic.php?f=47&t=9119&start=150 (http://investwithsports.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=9119&start=150)

^^Edman, this page right here. Has some videos of McPorkle.

[Thewiseman]

I had $100 parlay to win $11,500, and one to win over $10,000 before. Only loss for the 10,000 one was when evans knocked out Liddell(last one on the parlay) and the 11,500 one I only needed Kos, Maia, Sanchez and Marquardt @ UFC 95. As we all know, they all won except Kos got KTFO but Thiago.