UFN 23/Fight for the Troops

[poopoo333]

- Kenny Florian vs. Evan Dunham
- Yves Edwards vs. Melvin Guillard
- Matt Mitrione vs. Tim Hague
- Mike Swick vs. David Mitchell
- DaMarques Johnson vs. Mike Guymon
- Amilcar Alves vs. Charlie Brenneman

[Luke]

When is this?

[poopoo333]

When is this?

Jan 22nd

[ManBoobKilla]

Dunham vs Florian is a very interesting fight. I think it is Dunham's fight to lose. I feel if dunham uses his wrestling and grappling skills he will win but if it stays standing florian will possibly win a decision.

[SPX]

Dunham vs Florian is a very interesting fight. I think it is Dunham's fight to lose. I feel if dunham uses his wrestling and grappling skills he will win but if it stays standing florian will possibly win a decision.

I agree that Florian has a tough fight ahead of him on this one. Florian obviously can't out-wrestle him like Sherk did (for at least a round) and I actually am not even sure how the striking will go.

I'm on Dunham at dog odds, if I can get them.

Jesus Christ, how far we have strayed from "Florian is the best fighter at LW not named BJ Penn."

[Ludo]

I think the Florian thing comes from the fact that he had the absolute worst gameplan ever against a guy like Maynard. He seems to have this aversion to fighting his fight when it matters most. He's constantly trying these "one and done" type plans for certain opponents. Plus he's getting older now and if he doesn't have the wrestling at this point he's not going to get it before it's too late to do anything meaningful with it. Honestly I can see him winning this fight, but I'm having a hard time finding a clear cut path to victory for him.

Dunham will be hard to knock out, I don't think Florian can submit him unless he rocks him something fierce right before he goes for it, and Florian won't have his normal significant reach advantage. On the ground even if Dunham does end up on the bottom I think he can scramble back up seeing as he did it against Sherk a few times.

[Luke]

Jesus Christ, how far we have strayed from "Florian is the best fighter at LW not named BJ Penn."


I dont know but I find it funny how quick everyone counts someone out and flips on them.

Before the Manyard fight almost everyone was sure he'd beat Maynard now almost everyone's sure he'll lose to Duhnam . I think you have to look at more than just one fight when deciding things.

[SPX]

I dont know but I find it funny how quick everyone counts someone out and flips on them.

Before the Manyard fight almost everyone was sure he'd beat Maynard now almost everyone's sure he'll lose to Duhnam . I think you have to look at more than just one fight when deciding things.

I think the Guida fight made me believe in Kenny's wrestling and the Diaz and Huerta fights made me question Maynard's (if not his ability, at least his resolve to use it).

[edman5555]

I don't think florian used a bad gameplan against Gray. Gray was just a much better wrestler and there wasn't much Kenny could do to avoid getting taken down. Dunham is nowhere near the wrestler Gray is, I think Kenny beats Dunham.

[Ludo]

He absolutely used a bad gameplan against Maynard. All he talked about was letting his hands go at every opportunity and he didn't do it. He just waited for the shot and found out he couldn't stop it, but didn't do anything different in the next two rounds. He gets like that in these high pressure situations. He fought like shit against Sherk, he fought like shit against BJ, and he fought like shit against Maynard. All three instances involved Kenny Florian fighting like someone other than Kenny Florian.

[Svino]

I agree that Florian didn't have a great gameplan, but it didn't ultimately matter, he just wasn't going to win that fight. His takedown defense was good enough for Guida, but not enough for Maynard.

[SPX]

I guess Kenny's destined to be that dude who's always hovering right there around the title, but never is actually able to get it.

[edman5555]

Kenny wasn't letting his hands go against Maynard because that would increase his chances of getting taken down. Coming up with gameplans to beat Sherk, BJ Penn, and Gray Maynard is a lot easier said than done. They are some of the top guys at LW.

[Havis Jr]

Im betting against kenny until he wins one, and if they keep putting him against the top up and comers like dunham/maynard he is going to lose a lot. LW division is way more talented now then when BJ was champ.

[SPX]

Im betting against kenny until he wins one, and if they keep putting him against the top up and comers like dunham/maynard he is going to lose a lot. LW division is way more talented now then when BJ was champ.

What top LW fighters are in the UFC now that weren't there when BJ was champ?

[Luke]

Im betting against kenny until he wins one, and if they keep putting him against the top up and comers like dunham/maynard he is going to lose a lot. LW division is way more talented now then when BJ was champ.

What top LW fighters are in the UFC now that weren't there when BJ was champ?



.....................

[edman5555]

Kenny has very good striking, very good bjj and good wrestling. Kenny doesn't lose to Dunham. Dunhams wrestling isn't that good and his striking is not on Kenny's level. He will be forced to stand with Kenny and he will get picked apart.

[SPX]

.....................

Not sure of the meaning of this. . .

[Ludo]

Kenny wasn't letting his hands go against Maynard because that would increase his chances of getting taken down. Coming up with gameplans to beat Sherk, BJ Penn, and Gray Maynard is a lot easier said than done. They are some of the top guys at LW.


Thats My point though. His greatest tool is his ability to strike and set up a finish that way. No hands = no win for Kenny Florian. You'll never see him in a great ground war because his ground game isn't designed that way. He uses his ground game as a means to an end after he's sufficiently rocked his opponent or knocked them down to gain advantageous top position. For him not to throw his hands against Maynard was suicide. He wasn't stopping those takedowns anyway, he might as well go balls out and hope for the best because he's going to end up on his back anyway.

[SPX]

He wasn't stopping those takedowns anyway, he might as well go balls out and hope for the best because he's going to end up on his back anyway.

Probably so. He obviously needed to do something different than what he was doing. It was a profoundly frustrating fight for me to watch as I realized almost immediately that I had just wasted 3u.

[edman5555]

Kenny wasn't letting his hands go against Maynard because that would increase his chances of getting taken down. Coming up with gameplans to beat Sherk, BJ Penn, and Gray Maynard is a lot easier said than done. They are some of the top guys at LW.


Thats My point though. His greatest tool is his ability to strike and set up a finish that way. No hands = no win for Kenny Florian. You'll never see him in a great ground war because his ground game isn't designed that way. He uses his ground game as a means to an end after he's sufficiently rocked his opponent or knocked them down to gain advantageous top position. For him not to throw his hands against Maynard was suicide. He wasn't stopping those takedowns anyway, he might as well go balls out and hope for the best because he's going to end up on his back anyway.



Well he probably thought he had a better chance of stopping the takedowns than he really did. Hindsight is 20/20

[Ludo]

Kenny wasn't letting his hands go against Maynard because that would increase his chances of getting taken down. Coming up with gameplans to beat Sherk, BJ Penn, and Gray Maynard is a lot easier said than done. They are some of the top guys at LW.


Thats My point though. His greatest tool is his ability to strike and set up a finish that way. No hands = no win for Kenny Florian. You'll never see him in a great ground war because his ground game isn't designed that way. He uses his ground game as a means to an end after he's sufficiently rocked his opponent or knocked them down to gain advantageous top position. For him not to throw his hands against Maynard was suicide. He wasn't stopping those takedowns anyway, he might as well go balls out and hope for the best because he's going to end up on his back anyway.



Well he probably thought he had a better chance of stopping the takedowns than he really did. Hindsight is 20/20

And a bad gameplan is a bad gameplan.

[MMA_scientist]

I think Dunham is the only significant addition to LW in the last couple years. Dunham just fought very close with Sherk (IMO Sherk would have won convincingly if not for the long lay off). Dunham has a great ground game, decent wrestling, and pretty good hands. But his bjj is his ace in the hole for sure. I think Dunham might be able to get a takedown or two against Florian, mostly because Dunham goes for the finish... he will wade right into Florian. Florian has a good top game, but his guard is mostly defensive.

IMO, slight edge to FLorian striking; slight edge to Dunham grappling. Takedowns and defense are probably about even. This fight is really close and I think it will be won in the intangibles... gun to head: Dunham by aggression.

[Luke]

Pat Barry vs. Joey Beltran on tap for Jan 22 Fight for the Troops show

http://ht.ly/34Di2

[poopoo333]

Pat Barry vs. Joey Beltran on tap for Jan 22 Fight for the Troops show

http://ht.ly/34Di2

I bet joey comes to grapple.

[edman5555]

I think Dunham is the only significant addition to LW in the last couple years. Dunham just fought very close with Sherk (IMO Sherk would have won convincingly if not for the long lay off). Dunham has a great ground game, decent wrestling, and pretty good hands. But his bjj is his ace in the hole for sure. I think Dunham might be able to get a takedown or two against Florian, mostly because Dunham goes for the finish... he will wade right into Florian. Florian has a good top game, but his guard is mostly defensive.

IMO, slight edge to FLorian striking; slight edge to Dunham grappling. Takedowns and defense are probably about even. This fight is really close and I think it will be won in the intangibles... gun to head: Dunham by aggression.



I don't know. I think Fenflo picks him apart standing. Remember what he did to Guida? That was a demolition.

[edman5555]

Dunham hasn't really shown anything impressive in the striking department, he only looked good against Sherk because Shark gassed. Like you said, without the layoff Sherk would have won easily. Thats why I wished there would be a rematch. We probably could have gotten Sherk at Udog odds again.

[Ludo]

I think Dunham is the only significant addition to LW in the last couple years. Dunham just fought very close with Sherk (IMO Sherk would have won convincingly if not for the long lay off). Dunham has a great ground game, decent wrestling, and pretty good hands. But his bjj is his ace in the hole for sure. I think Dunham might be able to get a takedown or two against Florian, mostly because Dunham goes for the finish... he will wade right into Florian. Florian has a good top game, but his guard is mostly defensive.

IMO, slight edge to FLorian striking; slight edge to Dunham grappling. Takedowns and defense are probably about even. This fight is really close and I think it will be won in the intangibles... gun to head: Dunham by aggression.



I don't know. I think Fenflo picks him apart standing. Remember what he did to Guida? That was a demolition.

Guida has no range, and sub par striking.

[edman5555]

Dunham hasn't really shown anything special in the striking department. Kenny is a level above him in that dept.

[SPX]

Dunham hasn't really shown anything impressive in the striking department, he only looked good against Sherk because Shark gassed. Like you said, without the layoff Sherk would have won easily. Thats why I wished there would be a rematch. We probably could have gotten Sherk at Udog odds again.

I think Dunham's looked pretty good in the striking department. Obviously he's not flawless, but he's clearly outstruck everyone he's fought.

I do think Sherk in top condition would beat him a second time, though, because he'd just run a takedown train on him for three rounds and win a decision.

War Sherk

[SPX]

Guida has no range, and sub par striking.

I agree. His striking isn't that great. I really do like watching him fight, though. His reputation for being someone who just goes balls out is well-deserved, especially when he's pushed.

[MMA_scientist]

Dunham may not be a great striker, but he has shown that he can strike... Sherk is actuallya pretty good striker, and he beat Sherk standing. He also floored Per Eklund with a punch. I think he has more power than Kenny... and he has been able to take guys down pretty consistently. I wouldn't be surprised to see Kenny beat him at all, but I will be surprised if it is a blow out either way. I am not betting it unless somehow one guy is a pretty sizable underdog.

[Havis Jr]

Im betting against kenny until he wins one, and if they keep putting him against the top up and comers like dunham/maynard he is going to lose a lot. LW division is way more talented now then when BJ was champ.

What top LW fighters are in the UFC now that weren't there when BJ was champ?

None really, but my perception of who the top guys are has changed a lot. Diego,stevenson,sherk,kenny they were the top dogs when BJ was champ.

When BJ was fighting joe daddy for the lw title, Maynard and Frankie were battling it out on the undercard but either one of them could have beaten bj then and without a doubt now. I would pick maynard,frankie,dunham,soti over kenny or bj now. Styles matter but these new guys are on another level. Flame away.

[MMA_scientist]

When BJ was fighting joe daddy for the lw title, Maynard and Frankie were battling it out on the undercard but either one of them could have beaten bj then and without a doubt now. I would pick maynard,frankie,dunham,soti over kenny or bj now. Styles matter but these new guys are on another level. Flame away.

Don't mind if I do.

BJ would beat any of those guys except Edgar, just due to his boxing style. Sotiroupolous would literally die in the cage against BJ. A guy loses to one guy and suddenly he is horrible. BJ is still a bad ass that generally cannot be taken down. And if you do get him down, he generally whups your ass. I would bet a lot on BJ vs. Sot, and would favor him against everyone else too. I actually think Florian would beat Edgar, personally.

I like Frankie, but aside form the BJ fights, he has looked totally beatable (hence the -600 line when he fought BJ). He lost a round to Veach. He has almost exclusively won by decision. Maynard damn near lost to Diaz (Diaz!). These guys are nothing special. Dunham JUST lost to Sherk. Just now. So how you put him on another level is sort of confusing.

[zY|]

It's too bad BJ is a frontrunner who fights with no strategy. He's been around forever and he's still arguably the most talented MMA fighter ever.

[Mr. IWS]

he's still arguably the most talented MMA fighter ever.

Probably the reason why Me, and probably most, Love him and hate him at the same time.

[Havis Jr]

Dunham beat sherk. I know what the judges said, but your in the minority if you think that was a deserved W.

Ill be the first to admit I can't stand BJ so maybe that affecting my judgement, but him beating stevenson and diego for title defenses is not very impressive. Its like silva beting cote and leites, in retrospect its not that big of an accomplishment.

[Mr. IWS]

Ill be the first to admit I can't stand BJ so maybe that affecting my judgement, but him beating stevenson and diego for title defenses is not very impressive.

Maybe not just looking on paper, but the way he beat both of them was pretty impressive, to me anyway.

[MMA_scientist]

Diego is good... that's a quality defense IMO. Stevenson is a quality win too IMO... he might not be top 10, but he has beaten some tough guys, Diaz, Guillard, Fisher, Pelligrino, Tibau... not top level, but good. Florian is a quality title defense too. And Sherk, nothing needs to be said. And BJ made all of them look downright silly.

I agree Dunham should have been given the nod, but it was close either way. I think Sherk would win a rematch more convincingly. He obviously gassed out, something he has never done before, and he had been out with injuries forever. So I don't think it is a stretch to say the lay off had some effect on his gas tank.

Look at the guys taht have been able to beat BJ... all champions. He has never lost to a non-champion (aside from when Edgar took the belt from him- which I think he won). BJ is a stud... sometimes he doesn't come in prepared, but he can beat anyone on any given day. I personally think he would destroy Maynard. I am hoping Maynard takes the belt so BJ can get another shot.

[SPX]

Dunham beat sherk. I know what the judges said, but your in the minority if you think that was a deserved W.

It was close. First round went to Sherk, third went to Dunham. The second was close. I personally gave it to Dunham. But it wasn't a robbery.


Ill be the first to admit I can't stand BJ so maybe that affecting my judgement, but him beating stevenson and diego for title defenses is not very impressive. Its like silva beting cote and leites, in retrospect its not that big of an accomplishment.

Stevenson's not particularly impressive, but Diego's a tough fight for anyone.

And like Zak said, the WAY he beat them was insane. Sanchez had just got done conclusively beating Stevenson and Guida, and Penn literally outstruck him 150 to 8.

[edman5555]

BJ is obviously top level.

On Dunhams striking. Yeah he is good, I'll give him that. Sherk did gas in that fight as you said, which is why Dunham was able to out strike him easily. Dunham didn't start outstriking Sherk until the end of the first round, which was when he started to slow. Dunham was dropped by a punch from Efrain Escudero if I remember correctly as well. I'm not saying he stinks, but he isn't a top level striker. On the other hand, Kenny has very good striking but he isn't Anderson Silva obviously. So far he is the only one of the two that has handled good opponents on the feet. (Gomi, Guida off the top of my head, he probably did the same to Stevensen though I can't remember). There is clearly a difference. In a fight between KFLO and Dunham I would be all over KFLO.

Also, I am pretty sure Dunham was only a high school wrestler. Not that he couldn't become good after but he is def no Gray Maynard. I think the reason people look at Kenny like he has bad wrestling Defense is because of Maynard. But MAynard is top level, he was a THREE time all american. You can't call Kenny bad for not defending those takedowns. You can set the bar for "Bad" that high, especially when nobody else in the division is as good a wrestler as Maynard. Kenny is plenty good enough to stop Dunham from taking him down and the much better striker.

All that = Kenny Florian win

[edman5555]

Correction, Dunham didn't start outstriking Sherk until the end of R2

[Ludo]

Dunham beat sherk. I know what the judges said, but your in the minority if you think that was a deserved W.

Ill be the first to admit I can't stand BJ so maybe that affecting my judgement, but him beating stevenson and diego for title defenses is not very impressive. Its like silva beting cote and leites, in retrospect its not that big of an accomplishment.


When BJ Beat Stevenson, Joe was top 5 in the world. He was top 5 for a long time until this new crop of Lightweights made major pushes into the divisoin(Dunham, Sotiropoulus, Edgar, and Maynard) so circa 2008 when BJ not only busted Joe wide the fuck open, but proceeded to grapple-fuck the shit out of him was absolutely a feat to behold seeing as he was the first person in eight years to submit Joe.

Beating Diego in and of itself may not be "especially" great in hindsight. But the guy was outstruck 158 to 7 or some shit like that. Not to mention he is the first man to EVER stop Diego Sanchez in 26 fights. He dominated in every aspect of the fight. Not to mention Leites was a one trick pony and neither Diego nor Joe Daddy are.

[Havis Jr]

More fights

Rani Yahya vs. Chan Sung Jung
Waylon Lowe vs. Willamy Freire

[SPX]

Rani Yahya vs. Chan Sung Jung


Holy shit! It's so weird to see WEC fighters listed on a UFC card!

I hope the Korean Zombie fucks him up!

[MMA_scientist]

^^ is there any footage of KZ prior to Garcia? Does he have any takedown defense. That looks like an east win for Yahya, unless KZ has some TD defense.

[Havis Jr]

I just watched KZ career pack. Posted a few in the vid section. His TDD isn't very good, he is always on the bottom. Part of it is his style, plodding forward throwing wild hooks and flying knees. He says he plans on making serious changes to his style, http://www.watchkalibrun.com/2010/11/6/ ... ean-zombie (http://www.watchkalibrun.com/2010/11/6/1792887/a-change-of-styles-for-the-korean-zombie).

I doubt that makes up for his lack of TDD. KZ does have power so if he keeps it standing he should win, also yahya does have 2 tko loses. Not sure about Yahya's takedowns Im going to watch some more of his fights.

[Ludo]

I doubt we'll see a different fighter when he fights next. His style is all instinct, not the kind of thing you can just teach against the grain in a couple months(or in this case less than that).

[MMA_scientist]

Definitely going to be on Yahya here. KZ is going to get subbed early and often. If you don't know Yahya is, he is a really shitty striker, with sort of crappy takedowns... but his ground game is off the charts, easily the best bjj grappler in that weight class.

[SPX]

Definitely going to be on Yahya here. KZ is going to get subbed early and often. If you don't know Yahya is, he is a really shitty striker, with sort of crappy takedowns... but his ground game is off the charts, easily the best bjj grappler in that weight class.

Benavidez just TKOd Yahya and Mizugaki won a clear decision. I would NOT bet on him. And on top of that, I hope you're wrong.

[MMA_scientist]

^ true, but Benevidez and Mizugaki are leaps and bounds above KZ IMO. KZ just lost to George Roop, I don't really see how he can beat Yahya unless Rani just stand in front of him like an idiot.

Yahya never got the fight to the floor with Benevidez:
http://prommanow.com/index.php/2009/12/ ... ommentary/ (http://prommanow.com/index.php/2009/12/19/wec-45-cerrone-vs-ratcliff-results-and-play-by-play-commentary/)

The Mizugaki fight was close, Yahya could have been given the decision, and he had Mizugaki in several bad spots on the mat. Also Mizugaki has never been subbed.
http://mmajunkie.com/news/18864/wec-48- ... esults.mma (http://mmajunkie.com/news/18864/wec-48-aldo-vs-faber-play-by-play-and-live-results.mma)

[SPX]

Did you actually watch the fight with Yahya or just read the PBP? Maybe I need to watch it again, but I remember Miz being the clear winner. And to be fair, KZ has never been subbed either, though undoubtedly the level of comp that he's faced is nothing compared to what Miz has faced.

As for the Roop fight, Roop brings some very unusual advantages into his fights at 145. At his height and reach, he posed a kind of threat to KZ that Yahya most definitely will not. (I actually see Roop competing at 145 much like Tibau at 155 or Frausto at 115 . . . borderlined cheating.) Jung is not completely without any sort of ground skills and I think his sub-defense is a question mark. It may actually be bulletproof. We just don't know.

[MMA_scientist]

^^ all true. It depends on the odds of course... But if Yahya can get it down, and it looks like he can, I am going to guess he can at least control the fight to win a decision. If I can get a question mark against a world champion grappler, I am going with the known quantity. Yahya tends to go for the sub no matter what, giving up his top position a lot, which has cost him a few times. Still, unless KZ can keep it standing, I don't see why he would win.

But, this is all predicated on Yahya not being a big favorite. I was hoping he would come in at around -170.

[SPX]

^^^ I would not take Yahya at -170. That seems way too high for a guy who just lost his last two fights.

Also, it's worth mentioning that 6 of KZ's 10 wins have come via sub. So we know he'll have a clear advantage on the feet and may be more competitive on the ground than we'd expect.

[MMA_scientist]

^^ we just see it differently. KZ is coming off of 2 losses too, and to lesser opponents. I see a guy with an advantage on the ground and the means to get the fight into his area of advantage. KZ wins this fight by stopping the takedown or getting up a lot... I happen to think he can't do those things. KZ came over to America and promptly lost his first 2 fights against middling competition. If it weren't for his catchy nickname and Dana's love for sloppy brawling, no one would remember him and he would have already been sent home.

That said, that IS a badass nickname

[SPX]

First off, stop pretending he lost the Garcia fight. We, and the rest of the world, know that that was a clear should've-been-UD for the Zombie.

And the Roop fight, I think that Roop was just too long and rangy for KZ get in on him and do what he needed to do.

With that said, I have no idea who will win this one. I wouldn't be surprised to see Yahya take it. But I that lack of assuredness--on either side--would for damn sure keep me from betting either guy at -170.

[zY|]

KZ by sub.

[SPX]

Speaking of Roop, apparently Roop v Hominick is likely for this card.

[sbjj]

I actually think that Yahya will win this one easy. I am hoping for a good line because of the zombies popularity. IMO, the guy is just plain overrated...or at least was before the Roop fight.

[Havis Jr]

If Yahya can get the fight to the ground, and I think he should, he wins easy. But yahya's chin is pretty suspect, benevidez rocked him and that was about 10 seconds after torres was commentating on yahya's biggest weakness, his chin. Also a lot of KZ's subs finishes really could have been tko/ko as they came after he damaged his opponent with strikes. No bet for me.

[edman5555]

A guy with no chin against a guy that likes to swing for the fences? It sounds like a bad idea. It sounds like he is more likely to win but it only takes one punch..

[Luke]

Pat Barry vs. Joey Beltran Official for UFC Fight for the Troops 2


Current card:

Main card
Lightweight bout: Kenny Florian vs. Evan Dunham

Heavyweight bout: Matt Mitrione vs. Tim Hague

Featherweight bout: Mark Hominick vs. George Roop

Heavyweight bout: Pat Barry vs. Joey Beltran

Lightweight bout: Cole Miller vs. Matt Wiman

Preliminary card

Lightweight bout: Melvin Guillard vs. Yves Edwards

Welterweight bout: Mike Swick vs. David Mitchell

Welterweight bout: DaMarques Johnson vs. Mike Guymon

Featherweight bout: Chan Sung Jung vs. Rani Yahya

Lightweight bout: Waylon Lowe vs. Williamy Freire

Welterweight bout: Charlie Brenneman vs. Amilcar Alves

[poopoo333]

[youtube:3gubvkgv]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1fO-wtU8zA[/youtube:3gubvkgv]

[poopoo333]

Brenneman beats Alves easy.

[Ludo]

Pat Barry vs. Joey Beltran Official for UFC Fight for the Troops 2


Current card:

Main card
Lightweight bout: Kenny Florian vs. Evan Dunham

Heavyweight bout: Matt Mitrione vs. Tim Hague

Featherweight bout: Mark Hominick vs. George Roop

Heavyweight bout: Pat Barry vs. Joey Beltran

Lightweight bout: Cole Miller vs. Matt Wiman

Preliminary card

Lightweight bout: Melvin Guillard vs. Yves Edwards

Welterweight bout: Mike Swick vs. David Mitchell

Welterweight bout: DaMarques Johnson vs. Mike Guymon

Featherweight bout: Chan Sung Jung vs. Rani Yahya

Lightweight bout: Waylon Lowe vs. Williamy Freire

Welterweight bout: Charlie Brenneman vs. Amilcar Alves


I'll probably be on Swick if his line isn't too high, Guillard for sure, Barry if he's not a huge favorite, Mitrione because he'll be a dog, and whoever the dog is between Florian and Dunham.

[Mr. IWS]

Do we dare take Pat Barry here?

[Luke]

Kenny Florian injured, forced to withdraw from UFC Fight Night 23

http://bit.ly/ie0D80

[MMA_scientist]

^nooooo.... was really looking forward to that fight.

[poopoo333]

Good I didn't want to see either of them lose. Pull cerrone from the wec card and make it cerrone vs dunham.

[SPX]

Damn, that sucks. I was really looking forward to that one.

[edman5555]

Damn I was looking forward to betting on it.

[SPX]

Do we dare take Pat Barry here?

Entirely odds dependent.

The curse has already been broken and Barry should certainly win.

[Luke]

Melvin Guillard will replace Florian and now fight Dunham

[poopoo333]

Melvin Guillard will replace Florian and now fight Dunham

LOL

[Luke]

^^^^ why you laughin?

[poopoo333]

^^^^ why you laughin?

Dunham goes from a close competitive fight to a squash match.

[Luke]

^^^^ why you laughin?

Dunham goes from a close competitive fight to a squash match.


Oh ok lol ,I thought my post had some stupid mistake in it I was missing ::lmao::

[edman5555]

Actually I would def give Guillard a chance in this. He has good wrestling and powerful hands.

[edman5555]

Dunhams decent wrestling+good grappling might present a problem for him though.

[zY|]

I think Guillard will do well in the first round, but Dunham will come on strong late and take the fight.

[edman5555]

I don't remember Guillard gassing against Ellenberger.

[edman5555]

I'm a little wary to bet against Guillard, he packs a lot of power.

[poopoo333]

I don't remember Guillard gassing against Ellenberger.

http://www.memedepot.com/uploads/0/207_not_sure_if_serious.jpg

[zY|]

I don't remember Guillard gassing against Ellenberger.

http://www.memedepot.com/uploads/0/207_not_sure_if_serious.jpg

It's ok, they all look the same.

[MMA_scientist]

Dunham is going to choke the bejesus out of Guillard. Not a competitive fight IMO

[Luke]

I don't remember Guillard gassing against Ellenberger.



::lmao:: ::lmao::


where's Zak ?

[poopoo333]

I will take Dunham up to -400

[zY|]

Dunham is going to choke the bejesus out of Guillard. Not a competitive fight IMO

You definitely have to favor Dunham, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's competitive early. Dunham had his ass completely kicked by Efrain in the first round.

[Vandelay]

I don't remember Guillard gassing against Ellenberger.

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/848/startrekwatermelonh.gif

[Luke]

Replacement Cody McKenzie meets Yves Edwards at UFC Fight Night 23

http://bit.ly/dEaFx0

[poopoo333]

Replacement Cody McKenzie meets Yves Edwards at UFC Fight Night 23

http://bit.ly/dEaFx0

I figured they would give a TUF guy.

[poopoo333]

Mike Swick reveals on Facebook that his UFC Fight for the Troops 2 bout with David Mitchell has been scrapped:
"I got the call yesterday that David Mitchell backed out due to an injury and considering my current situation we opted to put off the fight all together. I have been dealing with with my esophageal condition this whole camp and its taken a toll on my body. I will need more time to seek better treatment to ensure I can compete at this level."

[SPX]

Damn, Swick hasn't fought now in like 10 years.

[poopoo333]

Mitrione because he'll be a dog

I don't think this will be the case.

[Luke]

I don't think this will be the case.

I dont see Mitrione being the dog either

[poopoo333]

I dont see Mitrione being the dog either

Yeah I just watched video on Hague for like 45 minutes and I think he is going to gas and get lit up. I haven't gotten to Mitrione's videos yet but from what I remember I am pretty sure Mitrione is going to assrape that hairy Canadian.

[poopoo333]

Pat Barry just chillin

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/628084/hd1_medium.jpg

[poopoo333]

http://www.bestfightodds.com/events/342.png (http://www.bestfightodds.com)

[MMA_scientist]

I predict money will come in on Melvin.

[poopoo333]

I predict money will come in on Melvin.

Good call.

[poopoo333]

Rest of the odds are up. Beltran has value imo..he won a round by top control against Mitrione and took him down easy.

[poopoo333]

I think Mitrione wins, but his odds suck. I think Roop's size may help him a lot in the Hominick fight. Anybody have any opinions on Wiman/Miller?

[MMA_scientist]

I think Mitrione wins, but his odds suck. I think Roop's size may help him a lot in the Hominick fight. Anybody have any opinions on Wiman/Miller?

I like Wiman at those odds. Wiman has pretty stout takedown defense and Miller has been KO'd before (and Wiman has Ko'd some guys). I think Wiman is somewhat underrated in general, and I actually think he will beat Cole here. Wiman has never been submitted either which is Cole's best chance to win.

[MMA_scientist]

As a matter of fact, I am going to go drop a bet on him right now.

[Thewisemann]

I like Wiman and Roop at + odds. Also, I will betting on Barry....Again.

[zY|]

I like Wiman and Roop at + odds. Also, I will betting on Barry....Again.

Why would you ever bet against the Mexicutioner?

[Thewisemann]

I just think Barry is going to show alot of improvement in this fight, and I think the old Pat Barry smashes Beltran.

[zY|]

I just think Barry is going to show alot of improvement in this fight, and I think the old Pat Barry smashes Beltran.

Which one is the old Pat Barry? The one who gets submitted by Tim Hague?

[Thewisemann]

Yeah, that one.

[zY|]

Just playing Devil's Advocate btw, I don't have much of an opinion on this fight either way.

[poopoo333]

Just playing Devil's Advocate btw, I don't have much of an opinion on this fight either way.

It's a hard fight to call. I really think Beltran is going to try and bring it to the floor and keep it there. Barry obviously wants to stand and has the advantage there, but I am not sure if he can defend the TD/get back up to his feet enough to get the W.

[Thewisemann]

Barry 2.87u to win 1.29u
Dunham 2.4u to win 1u
Roop 1u to win 1.95u

[poopoo333]

"Korean Zombie" forced out of UFC Fight Night 23; Yahya awaiting replacement (http://mmajunkie.com/news/22014/korean-zombie-forced-out-of-ufc-fight-night-23-yahya-awaiting-replacement.mma)

[poopoo333]

Replacement Mike Brown steps in to meet Rani Yahya at UFC Fight Night 23 (http://mmajunkie.com/news/22020/replacement-mike-brown-steps-in-to-meet-rani-yahya-at-ufc-fight-night-23.mma)

[MMA_scientist]

Damn, that sucks for Yahya. Goes from a totally winnable fight to one where he will probably be a 5:1 underdog.

[Thewisemann]

Damn, that sucks for Yahya. Goes from a totally winnable fight to one where he will probably be a 5:1 underdog.

How do you see this fight going down?

[MMA_scientist]

^^ Sprawl and brawl KO for Brown.

[edman5555]

Same here. What kind of lines do you guys predict for the undercard.

[poopoo333]

Same here. What kind of lines do you guys predict for the undercard.

Well here is the undercard:

Cody Mckenzie/Yves Edwards
DaMarques Johnson/Mike Guymon
Waylon Lowe/Williamy Freire
Charlie Brenneman/Amilcar Alves
Will Campuzano/Chris Cariaso
Rani Yaha/Mike Brown


I suck at predicting lines, but I think Brenneman and Edwards will be fairly large favorites. I think Johnson/Guymon will be like -125/-105 or so.


I think it is a good idea to start looking at these undercard fights early, so we can take advantage of any opening lines.

[edman5555]

I am hoping Yves Edwards opens at a decent line.

[Thewisemann]

^^ Sprawl and brawl KO for Brown.

What line are you giving for Brown?

[MMA_scientist]

What line are you giving for Brown?

'bout -400 or -450

Yahya has pretty good takedowns, but Brown is just a huge and way too strong to go down.

[edman5555]

Anyone else here think Guillard might be a good bet? For maybe .5u or so. He has good takedown defense. His big weakness has always been subs, which obv Dunham is good at. He seems to be getting better at that though. Guillards striking is better than Dunhams. = If Guillard can keep it standing he should win. If it does go to the ground it will be dangerous for Dunham but I don't think it will be insta-death for Guillard. He might be able to get to his feet. Either way I would not bet Dunham in this fight.

[Ludo]

Guillard is definitely a live dog, no doubt about it. My only concern with Melvin is that he's going to get overzealous and get himself taken down. Plus Dunham is very long and rangey as a striker, and the last rangey striker with good subs Guillard fought did beat him. I'm not saying Dunhams striking is on par with Diaz' but styles make fights and Evan is all wrong for Melvin. Probably a no bet for Me.

[edman5555]

no bet is probably the best move. unless guillard gets up to +250

[poopoo333]

I like Dunham in this fight. I think he has a slight edge in the stand up, can bring the fight to the floor, and definitely finish on the floor. I don't buy the whole Guillard version 2.0 thing since he trains at Jackson's now.

[edman5555]

Guillard has power in his hands and Dunham has been dropped before. Efrain dropped him with a punch. He only oustruck Sherk after Sherk gassed. Outside of that, what has he done with his hands? Guillard has 14 knockouts. I think this is a bad bet.

[edman5555]

Bottom line: I see a path to victory for Guillard. Keep it standing. Dunham has good wrestling but Guillard isn't bad at that himself.

[poopoo333]

I was really confident in Dunham when this fight was first announced... I even said I would take him up to -400. But after watching some video and stuff, I still think Dunham will win but I am not as confident as I was. But I will take Dunham if he hit -220 or better.

[edman5555]

His wins are as follows: Per eklund(I don't even know who that is), a SPLIT dec win over marcus aurelio(look his record up, he is good but has many losses), Efrain Escudero(he almost knocked Dunham out, dropped him with a punch), Tyson Griffin(a solid win but Tyson is much smaller than him). Dunham is good but he is overrated. Guillard is also getting better IMO.

[Ludo]

I wouldn't say Dunham is overrated here. His line is about right here. He poses all the right problems to justify a -250ish line against Guillard. His record may not be as impressive as we'd like but the fact remains he only has one loss and it was a very close split decision to a former champion and perrenial top ten fighter in the division. I see a clear path to victory for each man, it's just less likely that Guillard will find his before Dunham can find one of his. I see Guillard winning one of three ways. He can win by flash KO, tire Dunham out and catch him in the later rounds(supposing the fight lasts that long), or finds a way to stay standing and grinds a decision out. None of these seem to be the kind of things I would lay a bet down on without having a better idea about than I do at this time.

[edman5555]

I wouldn't say Dunham is overrated here. His line is about right here. He poses all the right problems to justify a -250ish line against Guillard. His record may not be as impressive as we'd like but the fact remains he only has one loss and it was a very close split decision to a former champion and perrenial top ten fighter in the division. I see a clear path to victory for each man, it's just less likely that Guillard will find his before Dunham can find one of his. I see Guillard winning one of three ways. He can win by flash KO, tire Dunham out and catch him in the later rounds(supposing the fight lasts that long), or finds a way to stay standing and grinds a decision out. None of these seem to be the kind of things I would lay a bet down on without having a better idea about than I do at this time.

You are correct.

[poopoo333]

^^ok:

Guillard's wins are as follows:

Marcus Davis...due to a cut

Gabe Ruediger... the guy that has lost every significant (if that) fight he has been in

Dennis Siver... good win

Gleison Tibau... controversial win

Ronnys Torres... Torres isn't even in the UFC anymore

Waylon Lowe... took this fight on very short notice

Jeremy Stephens... split decision, Guillard didn't look too good in this fight imo, he isn't going to be able to run in, throw a punch, and run out against Dunham

[edman5555]

OK we will see what happens.

[MMA_scientist]

I think it is more an issue of Melvin's losses than his wins. Melvin has knocked some guys out but he has also been dropped himself with shots, including by Joe Stevenson. I mean, Rich Clementi beat him. Melvin is just not a top tier fighter, IMO. Almost all of his losses are to grapplers. Stuffing Ronnys Torres is going to be a lot different than stuffing Dunham. Also, Melvin has been guillotine choked several times, and Dunham has definetely been working on his (see Sherk fight, he does the Marcelo-tine version with the elbow lift which is sort of the new way to guillotine).

That said, Melvin is explosive and could always catch him or even win a decision... so I agree there is a path to victory for him. But Dunham will win easily IMO.

[edman5555]

We will see. Bet Dunham.

[edman5555]

I'm not betting by the way. For the record, I don't know what happens. I am trying to be more analytical this year so I can make some money.

[Ludo]

I'm not betting by the way. For the record, I don't know what happens. I am trying to be more analytical this year so I can make some money.

Definitely a good idea. really thinking it through and running through a process as to who can win and why and how likely each scenario is can increase your take greatly. Also, find as much video as you can on a fight your interested in and research the shit out of things helps as well.

[edman5555]

Yeah watching tape is a good idea. I think all the Strikeforce fights from the other night are on MMATKO if you guys want to see them. I think bouncing info off each other helps a lot too. I am doing great this year so far, I want to keep it going.

[MMA_scientist]

Melvin Guillard vs. Evan Dunham (No. 10 LW)
I got Dunham by submission in this one. I do think Melvin has a path to victory, but I just think Dunham is a better fighter with more ways to win. I think his wrestling is good enough to get Melvin down, and he will do so eventually, and probably submit him shortly thereafter. At the current line though, I probably would not bet Dunham. Melvin may be worth a play, but not for me. I might put a little something on a Dunham by Submission prop. I really think Dunham has some of the best bjj in the division. He is a Megaton bb, and I was really surprised how easily he controlled Griffin on the ground, he just schooled him.


Matt Mitrione vs. Tim Hague
Mitrione should win, but I wouldn't coun't Hague out. I think Mitrione has more power... but with them being HW's they both have KO power. On the ground, I think it is evenly matched as well. I think Mitrione will win, but it is no bet for me at the current line.

Mark Hominick vs. George Roop
Hominick should have a striking edge, but Roop has been somewhat surprising people. Maybe Roop can strike. I am not really sure. If it goes to the ground, edge to Hominick because of his submission game off his back. At +200 though, Roop might be worth a play. I am not going to bet Hominick at -240... maybe at -140 I would bet him. They have a common opponent in Garcia, and Hominick won a split and Roop got a draw. I think it is closer than the line indicates, and Roop may have some value.

Patrick Barry vs. Joey Beltran
My rule is that I do not bet 1 dimensional fighters as favorites, ever. My other rule is that I do not bet against the Mexicutioner. Barry should win, but Barry has a way of losing fights he should win. Beltran has value IMO. His usual game plan is ground and pound and brawling... I think Barry will be able ot stuff him for at least a round which should be enough for Barry to stop him... but Beltran is nails, he hangs in there. I think he might win here. It is Beltran or nothing for me.

Cole Miller vs. Matt Wiman
I like Wiman @ +160. Wiman has strong TD defense and a pretty good ground game himself. Standing, I think Wiman can win, though it is not a lock standing either. But Wiman is tough, has a good chin, good power and good takedown defense, and he has never been submitted. Cole is probably going to come out super aggressive looking to kill or be killed... I think it is a toss up, but at +160, I already have .5 on Wiman. It is not something I feel super confident about, because Cole could submit him or even out point him standing. But at +160, I think it is worth a small bet.

DaMarques Johnson vs. Michael Guymon
Both are well rounded guys, but I think Guymon is the heavier puncher and more top oriented grappler. I think it is a close fight, could go either way, but I like Guymon. Guymon has been in there with tougher guys and has better wins at this point. Johnson has lost to several top oriented grapplers, and Guymon really doesn't have a BAD loss. Every guy that has beaten him has been pretty good. Guymon beat Quinn Mulhern, which makes me think he knows how to avoid a triangle, which is Johnson's main weapon. I will probably bet Guymon at -120 or better.

Yves Edwards vs. Cody McKenzie
I don't know. Cody is a lot bigger than Yves, I could totally see him wrapping him up with those big long arms and forcing Yves to grapple with him. Either guy probably has value as an underdog.

Waylon Lowe vs. Willamy Freire
Lowe is a DII national champion wrestler. Friere is a MuyThai/bjj guy. Freire is going to be more dynamic on his feet and on the mat... but Lowe might be able to blanket him. Not enough information for me to bet it, but again, either guy probably has value as a dog.

Amilcar Alves vs. Charlie Brenneman
Alves is the judo guy with the dynamic striking. I thought he might be able to beat Pierce in his debut, but was horribly wrong. Brenneman is a lot like Pierce... really good wrestling, does not give up on the takedown. I don't see how this goes any differently than the Pierce fight. Brenneman should win a decision. But Alves is live, i would consider him @ +200.

Rani Yahya vs. Mike Thomas Brown
I see no way for Yahya to get this one down, and if he does, Brown is no slouch grappling. Brown should win by keeping it standing. Originally I said -400 to -450, but it is short notice for Brown, so I won't go over -400. I might try to work this into a 2 fight parlay.

Will Campuzano vs. Chris Cariaso
Again, really close fight. Cariaso did well against Rebello on the ground, but then got schooled by Barao. Campuzano has been fighting really tough guys and losing. I think Cariaso is going to have a grappling edge though. I wil consider Cariaso at close to even or better.

[edman5555]

I think Edwards might be a good bet, depending on his line. What do you guys know about Mckenzie? I know he has a nasty guillotine but is that all? How is his BJJ in general? Most of his wins have come against guys with losing records or very little experience by the way. I will probably be betting Edwards at anything decent depending on what I can figure out about McKenzie. I might watch some tape as well.

[edman5555]

Yves Edwards seems to be pretty well rounded. I would think he would beat someone one dimensional. I have a hunch Cody is. I heard his striking was bad but I haven't seen a lot of it.

[poopoo333]

Nice breakdown Scientist. I pretty much agree with you on everything when it comes to the fights that I have looked at.

I really think Dunham will sub Guillard as well. The only thing that worries me is that Guillard will catch Dunham early like Escudero did, but other then that I think Dunham will get a choke on Guillard.

I really think Mitrione is going to dominate, especially if it goes past round 1. Hague gasses fast, and with Mitrione's pace it is bound to happen. The only thing keeping me away from Mitrione is his wild exchanges he gets in..he got buckled by Beltran in one of them and I think if Hague lands clean Mitrione is going out.

I think Hominick wins this, I think he is the overall better fighter. He isn't going to stand in front of Roop and just walk forward like Korean Zombie did. Also, they share a common opponent in Garcia, but that split decision was bullshit, even though Hominick won. It was basically Garcia being dominated and still somehow getting the call on a scorecard like in the Nam Phan fight. Roop was also beating Garcia until a point deduction (IIRC it was a bullshit point deduction too).

Pat Barry should dominate the stand up, but I don't trust him. Against Hague, Hardonk, and Crocop, he would hurt them bad, but not follow up. He just freezes and lets them back into the fight. Beltran is a decent bet at around +200 imo, I think his game plan will be to take Barry down and control him/ground and pound. He did this successfully against a bigger Mitrione in their fight in round 1.

I think Mike Guymon and DaMarques Johnson is a fairly even fight, but I will be betting Guymon if he is at + odds, which I think he will be because of his recent sub losses and Johnson's bigger name.


I haven't looked at any of the other fights, but style wise I think Brenneman beats Alves.


I really don't like much on this card to bet. Depending on the odds, I am probably going to bet Brenneman and Mike Guymon. I will probably place an anchor bet on Dunham.

[Mr. IWS]

My other rule is that I do not bet against the Mexicutioner.

Excellent info. This gave me a chuckle.

[SPX]

Good breakdown, Scientist.

Guillard is probably a better boxer technically, but I think Dunham wins. He's better in most every other regard.

And for the record (not directed at you, Sci), Escudero did NOT "almost knock Dunham out"

[MMA_scientist]

^^ I had forgotten that Dunham was able to take Escudero down several times... Escudero is a way better wrestler than Melvin. That probably had something to do with the way Escudero was coming forward and winging punches though. I think Melvin has to stay on his bike if wants to win here... if he comes in looking to land power shots, Dunham is going to plant him on the mat, IMO. But Melvin could potentially do what he did with Stephens. I still think Dunham will get him down though.

[edman5555]

Well he dropped him with a punch. My point is Dunham's striking isn't all that and a bag of potatoe chips. Guillard happens to have a mean punch as well. On top of that, he seems to be doing much better. A la Clay Guida.

[MMA_scientist]

Well he dropped him with a punch. My point is Dunham's striking isn't all that and a bag of potatoe chips. Guillard happens to have a mean punch as well. On top of that, he seems to be doing much better. A la Clay Guida.

Both guys got dropped way down the ranks after losses. Guillard went from fighting top tier guys and getting beat to fighting guys he probably would have beaten any way. He goes from fighting Stevenson and Diaz to fighting guys making their debut... IMO, Guillard has only had 1 fight that he MIGHT have lost if he was the old Guillard, Stephens. But even that was a somewhat favorable matchup. At one point, Melvin beat Siver and Tibau back to back, which is more impressive than what he is doing now IMO.

Same thing with Guida... he went from fighting Florian and Sanchez to Shannon Gugerty. Guida has put together 2 quality wins in row now, but he has done that in the past as well.

Basically, Greg Jackson making fighters better is a myth. It is confirmation bias. Melvin and Guida might get better there just by virtue of actually having sparring partners. I don't think either of them were in camps at all before that.

[poopoo333]

Hominick gets featherweight title shot with win over Roop at UFC Fight Night 23 (http://mmajunkie.com/news/22059/hominick-gets-featherweight-title-shot-with-win-over-roop-at-ufc-fight-night-23.mma)

[Luke]

Hominick gets featherweight title shot with win over Roop at UFC Fight Night 23 (http://mmajunkie.com/news/22059/hominick-gets-featherweight-title-shot-with-win-over-roop-at-ufc-fight-night-23.mma)


wonder why Grispi isnt getting his title shot ?

[poopoo333]

wonder why Grispi isnt getting his title shot ?

Something to do with the public ass rape he received on ION television.

[Luke]

Something to do with the public ass rape he received on ION television.

whats an ION?

[edman5555]

Both guys got dropped way down the ranks after losses. Guillard went from fighting top tier guys and getting beat to fighting guys he probably would have beaten any way. He goes from fighting Stevenson and Diaz to fighting guys making their debut... IMO, Guillard has only had 1 fight that he MIGHT have lost if he was the old Guillard, Stephens. But even that was a somewhat favorable matchup. At one point, Melvin beat Siver and Tibau back to back, which is more impressive than what he is doing now IMO.

Same thing with Guida... he went from fighting Florian and Sanchez to Shannon Gugerty. Guida has put together 2 quality wins in row now, but he has done that in the past as well.

Basically, Greg Jackson making fighters better is a myth. It is confirmation bias. Melvin and Guida might get better there just by virtue of actually having sparring partners. I don't think either of them were in camps at all before that.

I agree that Greg Jackson is overhyped. I also think both of them have improved due to the fact that they have camps to train in. I think that is the main reason why they are better now than they were before. I am sure they had very little structure and consistency compared to what the get at Jacksons. Top training partners + Coaching. Guida drove around the country in a Winnabego, I am thinking there was no coach for him. You more or less summed up my reasoning, they have actual camps.

Guida has been looking good though, his last three wins were by submission. When was the last time he had three wins by sub? When he was fighting cans. This is improvement because he is showing a wider range of capabilities than he previously did. One was due to a broken jaw but he was going for the sub which aggravated the jaw.

Melvin was always a go for broke slugger if I remember correctly. Seeing him fight Stephens the way he did made me think he has changed. He didn't swing for the fences and act crazy, he showed discipline. In addition, he fought Ronnys Torres and didn't get subbed. That guy is a Nova Unaio fighter with a lot of sub wins. Almost all of Guillards losses are from subs.

All I am saying is don't look at these guys as they have been, because they have improved. I know that they havent doubled in skill or anything and they aren't about to beat everyone in the ufc. I am sure Guillard can lose to Dunham, but I wouldn't bet Dunham at the current line.

This might not make total grammatical sense. I wrote it twice and accidentally hit the back button. I am rushing through this time. Anyways, they are better than they used to be because they have actual camps. The end.

[SPX]

I also agree that Guillard has probably improved. He definitely looks like a better fighter now that he did around the time he fought Rich Clementi. Clementi ran through him pretty easily, but if they fought again today I would have to favor Guillard.

BTW, the question of Guillard's competition has already been posed, but I will at least say this: Guillard is 6-1 in his last 7 and three of those wins were to Stephens, Tibau and Siver. Not too shabby.

With all that said, I still think Dunham's gonna win.

[poopoo333]

Sat 1/22
1403 Wiman/Miller goes 3 round distance
-145 9:10PM
1404 Fight won't go 3 round distance +105 Sat 1/22
1405 Wiman wins inside distance
+400 9:10PM
1406 Not Wiman inside distance -600 Sat 1/22
1407 Wiman wins by 3 round decision
+306 9:10PM
1408 Not Wiman by 3 round decision -426 Sat 1/22
1409 Miller wins inside distance
+220 9:10PM
1410 Not Miller inside distance -300 Sat 1/22
1411 Miller wins by 3 round decision
+171 9:10PM
1412 Not Miller by 3 round decision -232

-----------------------------------------

Sat 1/22
1303 Beltran/Barry goes 3 round distance
+145 9:25PM
1304 Fight won't go 3 round distance -185 Sat 1/22
1305 Beltran wins inside distance
+329 9:25PM
1306 Not Beltran inside distance -485 Sat 1/22
1307 Beltran wins by 3 round decision
+474 9:25PM
1308 Not Beltran by 3 round decision -820 Sat 1/22
1309 Barry wins inside distance
+115 9:25PM
1310 Not Barry inside distance -155 Sat 1/22
1311 Barry wins by 3 round decision
+263 9:25PM
1312 Not Barry by 3 round decision -383 ---------------------------------------------------------------

Sat 1/22
1203 Roop/Hominick goes 3 round distance
-165 9:40PM
1204 Fight won't go 3 round distance +125 Sat 1/22
1205 Roop wins inside distance
+454 9:40PM
1206 Not Roop inside distance -760 Sat 1/22
1207 Roop wins by 3 round decision
+394 9:40PM
1208 Not Roop by 3 round decision -594 Sat 1/22
1209 Hominick wins inside distance
+235 9:40PM
1210 Not Hominick inside distance -315 Sat 1/22
1211 Hominick wins by 3 round decision
+121 9:40PM
1212 Not Hominick by 3 round decision -161 ------------------------------------------------------------------

Sat 1/22
1103 Hague/Mitrione goes 3 round distance
+140 10:00PM
1104 Fight won't go 3 round distance -180 Sat 1/22
1105 Hague wins inside distance
+385 10:00PM
1106 Not Hague inside distance -585 Sat 1/22
1107 Hague wins by 3 round decision
+485 10:00PM
1108 Not Hague by 3 round decision -855 Sat 1/22
1109 Mitrione wins inside distance
+105 10:00PM
1110 Not Mitrione inside distance -145 Sat 1/22
1111 Mitrione wins by 3 round decision
+252 10:00PM
1112 Not Mitrione by 3 round decision -355
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Sat 1/22
1003 Guillard/Dunham goes 3 round distance
+100 10:30PM
1004 Fight won't go 3 round distance -140 Sat 1/22
1005 Guillard wins inside distance
+380 10:30PM
1006 Not Guillard inside distance -570 Sat 1/22
1007 Guillard wins by 3 round decision
+454 10:30PM
1008 Not Guillard by 3 round decision -760 Sat 1/22
1009 Dunham wins inside distance
+149 10:30PM
1010 Not Dunham inside distance -189 Sat 1/22
1011 Dunham wins by 3 round decision
+187 10:30PM
1012 Not Dunham by 3 round decision -267

[poopoo333]

Joey Beltran by submission @+1500 is kind of tempting.

[Thewisemann]

Joey Beltran by submission @+1500 is kind of tempting.

Thats not bad, it could happen.

[Thewisemann]

Anyone think Brown will open -250 or under? What about Johnson or Guyman being +170? Just debating whether I should wait on these lines or not, because I want to bet Diaz, and I only have a few units available.

[poopoo333]

Anyone think Brown will open -250 or under? What about Johnson or Guyman being +170? Just debating whether I should wait on these lines or not, because I want to bet Diaz, and I only have a few units available.

I don't think Brown will open @-250 better and I don't think Johnson or Guymon will be +170 (I don't believe either of them should even be +130).

[Thewisemann]

Me either, thats were I set my lines to bet though. I wont bet Brown unless he is -250 or better and I wont bet Johnson or Guyman unless I get +170 or better. I thought Brown might, just because he just lost.

[poopoo333]

Yeah, I think Guymon will be in + odds. I will take him +125 or better

[edman5555]

1.25u on Hominick inside the distance to win 3u.

[edman5555]

Matt mitrione by submission .125u to win 1.75u.

[SPX]

1.25u on Hominick inside the distance to win 3u.

1.25 quarts of semen inside your mom's vagina to win your new little brother.

[edman5555]

5.65u mark hominick straight to win 2.5u

[poopoo333]

5u on poopoo333 under 2.5 minutes inside SPX's mom to win 0.1u

[SPX]

5u on poopoo333 under 2.5 minutes inside SPX's mom to win 0.1u

You're a real sick fuck, you know it PP? Everyone knows you're not supposed to joke about things like that.

[edman5555]

The only reason I can't give odds on your mom is because everyone knows she is a sure thing.

[SPX]

The only reason I can't give odds on your mom is because everyone knows she is a sure thing.

LOL

That's pretty clever. I've tried for a few minutes to come up with a good comeback and I've got nothing for now, so I'm going to move on to other things in life.

[Luke]

The only reason I can't give odds on your mom is because everyone knows she is a sure thing.


::lmao::

[Ludo]

Damn, X got fuckin' wrecked! And so did his mom.

[SPX]

Damn, X got fuckin' wrecked! And so did his mom.

I had the most clever quip of them all.

Me = The Shit

[Thewisemann]

Hey poopoo, told you whenever I post my NFL picks I lose.

[Ludo]

So anyone think Demetrious Johnson has a shot at Yamamoto? I was watching a couple of Mighty Mouse' fights last night and I noticed he tends to get hit ALOT more than he rightfully should. He has good movement and whatnot but he telegraphs his kicks too much. He is good at coming in from all angles but be is always seemingly stood still when he throws a strike.

[Thewisemann]

Im not touching that fight.

[poopoo333]

Hey poopoo, told you whenever I post my NFL picks I lose.

awww man sorry


So anyone think Demetrious Johnson has a shot at Yamamoto? I was watching a couple of Mighty Mouse' fights last night and I noticed he tends to get hit ALOT more than he rightfully should. He has good movement and whatnot but he telegraphs his kicks too much. He is good at coming in from all angles but be is always seemingly stood still when he throws a strike.

I think he has a shot. I actually noticed him getting hit more then he should as well, glad somebody else picked that up. I have a bet on Mighty Mouse, I think he will outwork Yamamoto to a decision. Yamamoto seems to be on the downhill of his career, when Johnson is up and coming. Also, these Japanese fighters coming over to the UFC don't seem to do well. They carry all the pressure of representing Japan in America, and don't react well to the pressure of the UFC (or so it seems) ...oh by the way, this is @UFC 126 just in case you didn't know

[poopoo333]

I am pretty sure Yaha is moving up to featherweight to fight Brown which is another disadvantage. I am curious to these undercard lines...they should be out in the next couple of days.

[SPX]

I am pretty sure Yaha is moving up to featherweight to fight Brown which is another disadvantage. I am curious to these undercard lines...they should be out in the next couple of days.

I'm not sure how Yahya wins that one. I don't see him catching Brown in a sub and he's definitely not outstriking him. I think Brown either muscles him around for 15 minutes or gets the TKO.

[poopoo333]

Yeah, Brown's line is going to suck. I hope the books see Brown has lost 3 of his last 5 and give a decent line.

[SPX]

I hope the books see Brown has lost 3 of his last 5 and give a decent line.

Word.

This may actually be one of those rare fights that comes along where you should just load up.

[poopoo333]

http://mmafightvideosonline.blogspot.com/2011/01/mike-brown-vs-diego-nunes-fight-video.html


^^Brown's most recent fight against Nunes

[MMA_scientist]

Thinking of doing Brown plus:

1/22/2011 10:30 PM Props Fighting 1028 Any other result* -4500 vs M.Guillard wins by submission
1/22/2011 10:00 PM Props Fighting 1120 Any other result* -4950 vs T.Hague wins in round 3
1/22/2011 9:40 PM Props Fighting 1230 Any other result* -1590 vs G.Roop wins by TKO/KO
1/22/2011 9:25 PM Props Fighting 1332 Any other result* -4500 vs P.Barry wins by submission
1/22/2011 9:10 PM Props Fighting 1428 Any other result* -1700 vs M.Wiman wins by submission

Any holes there? Hague is a gasser, but so is Mitrione from what I recall. So I question that one. Hominick has only been KO/TKO's twice, ince by a slam and once by cut. He has never really been stopped legitimately by strikes standing or on the ground. It is POSSIBLE that Wiman could submit Miller too, he has a couple of submissions, but I doubt it happens. What do you think?

Oh it is exactly -500 as is.

[poopoo333]

Mitrione didn't gas against Beltran in a 3 round "war". Hague has gassed bad in both fights in the UFC he had that went the distance. But you never know what will happen with two huge guys in a slugfest..so I don't really like that play. The other ones look good to me though.

[SPX]

I think Guillard has a snowball's chance in hell of submitting Dunham, that's for damn sure.

[MMA_scientist]

If Brown comes in at -500, that would make the thinh -237 overall.

[poopoo333]

Speaking of prop bets, I am actually thinking about taking Dunham by sub @+175

[MMA_scientist]

I think Guillard has a snowball's chance in hell of submitting Dunham, that's for damn sure.

Yeah, I feel pretty good about that one and the "not Barry by submission"

[SPX]

If Brown comes in at -500, that would make the thinh -237 overall.

You think Brown will be that high? And if he is, do you think money comes in on Yahya?

[MMA_scientist]

Speaking of prop bets, I am actually thinking about taking Dunham by sub @+175

Normally I would want better odds on that, but I think if Dunham drops him with a punch he will latch on to a sub. So really he either wins by decision or submission. If you accept his line as accurate (-240), that is an implied probability of 70%. If you say he has a 45/45/10 for submission/decision/TKO, which is what I think is about right... that gives a line of +122, so there is value to the prop.

He has 2 tko wins, but he has never TKOd a guy like Melvin. So I think the TKO is less than his 18% TKO rate.

I'm still not going to bet it though.

[MMA_scientist]

You think Brown will be that high? And if he is, do you think money comes in on Yahya?

Yeah, I think he will be at least -400. I will surprised if he is less than -400. I am not too quick on the lines lately, so I am guessing by the time i get around to him, he will be -500. If he comes in -350, that will be great.

I might hedge it with Yahya by submission, because it could totally happen. That is the only way Yahya wins though.

[SPX]

Like PP said, I'm hoping the bookies shoot lower since Brown has been doing kind of shitty lately.

[poopoo333]

I like Hominick, Mitrione, and Brown to win, but I don't like their odds to bet them straight (I am assuming Brown is going to have a ridiculous line)...I think I may make a 3 fight parlay again like I did at the Challengers show. Assuming Brown is -550, this will make a parlay of these 3 on 5dimes +135.

[poopoo333]

Like PP said, I'm hoping the bookies shoot lower since Brown has been doing kind of shitty lately.

I really think this was the case for the opening Machida/Couture line. So if this does happen, make sure you are quick getting to the lines because it will drop quick.

[MMA_scientist]

Like PP said, I'm hoping the bookies shoot lower since Brown has been doing kind of shitty lately.

Yeah, but he has been beaten by strikers. Yahya has 15 wins and 14 submissions. He can't punch at all. He has to the get the bigger stronger wrestler to the floor, which I don't think he can do. His only chance here is to Werdum him. He might be able to catch Brown coming in for a finish. He just doesn't have a alot of ways to win this.

[MMA_scientist]

Oh it is not like Yahya is setting the division on fire. He is coming off 2 straight losses at 135. I think we will be super lucky to see -400

[Luke]

http://www.bestfightodds.com/events/342.png


undercard lines up

[poopoo333]

I was a little late because I am working but I bet on brown, brenneman, guymon, and lowe.I wasn't gonna bet lowe originally but he has value imo

[SPX]

4u on Brown at -275

Hell to the yeah!

Ya'll should've seen me stumbling over myself trying to get to Bookmaker on my phone and get that shit placed.

[edman5555]

5u Yves Edwards

[poopoo333]

4u on Brown at -275

Hell to the yeah!

Ya'll should've seen me stumbling over myself trying to get to Bookmaker on my phone and get that shit placed.

Haha by the time I saw the text and got to my car to hide from work he was at -320

[SPX]

Haha by the time I saw the text and got to my car to hide from work he was at -320

I was sitting in Wendy's eating some chili and fucking with my phone. Then I saw the e-mail notification, and the line, and immediately rushed to Bookmaker to get it done.

Then I texted Luke, who wasn't nearly as enthusiastic as I was.

[Luke]

4u on Brown at -275

Hell to the yeah!

Ya'll should've seen me stumbling over myself trying to get to Bookmaker on my phone and get that shit placed.



LOL thats funny

[poopoo333]

ugh when the hell is Dunham's line going to drop?

[SPX]

ugh when the hell is Dunham's line going to drop?

I've been wondering that, too. It might not. Or it might get worse.

[poopoo333]

I've been wondering that, too. It might not. Or it might get worse.

I am guessing when 5dimes released their reduced juice odds, I will get him @-215ish.


I can't believe the opening line was Freire: -200/ Lowe: +160

[MMA_scientist]

Freire is going to beat Lowe, but Lowe probably has wrestler value @ + odds

I can't belive how bad I am at guessing opening lines. I was hoping 5dimes would open Brown/Yahya so I could get him in my parlay, but I am afraid that line is going to get worse...

4u on Brown @ -320

[poopoo333]

^^That is exactly why I bet Lowe lol, any wrestler as an underdog gets my bet 90% of the time.

[MMA_scientist]

Yeah, I am coining the term "wrestler value". Anytime a wrestler is fighting a non-wrestler (or a guy without great takedown defense) they get a bet at + odds (unless they are fighting a bjj stud). Friere is good though from what I have seen, and he will probably mess Lowe's world up.

[Thewisemann]

Brown has value I believe, but im not betting it. Good luck guys.

[MMA_scientist]

Guymon is probably a bet for me too @ +130

[poopoo333]

Guymon is probably a bet for me too @ +130

I'm not sure why he is +130. I don't see what Johnson has done that is so good. I am pretty sure in both of the fights he has won in the UFC, he was being beaten handily before winning...I guess you can call him the "comeblack kid". And to use some MMA math, Johnson was dominated by Wilks everywhere...and I think Guymon would beat Wilks everywhere. I think Guymon wins a decision.

[Luke]

just announced that 2 Fight For the Troops Prelims will stream live on Facebook. Guymon-Johnson, McKenzie-Edwards! Info at ufc.com

http://www.ufc.com/news/ufc-fftt-prelims-facebook-press-release-011811





Its official the UFC cant get any gayer now unless they bring in Boy George to be referee

[MMA_scientist]

I honestly don't even know what that means. I don't visit facebook or any other pre-teen phenonena sites, so I really have no idea how you can stream something on facebook. Does that mean, they are going to stream it on the UFC's facebook page? If so, can anyone view that page? Why don't they just stream it in UFC.com like a grown ass man would?

[trotterz]

I think it will stream on both facebook and ufc.com

[trotterz]

I just double cheked ... it will only be on facebook and not ufc.com, sorry about the wrong info

[poopoo333]

I just "liked" the UFC fan page on facebook...hopefully I am back in my hotel by 8 PM to catch the prelims on Saturday.

[Mr. IWS]

I just "liked" the UFC fan page on facebook...hopefully I am back in my hotel by 8 PM to catch the prelims on Saturday.

Hotel? where you at?

[poopoo333]

Hotel? where you at?

I gotta meet Sunday so I am gonna be in a hotel Saturday night.

[Mr. IWS]

I gotta meet Sunday so I am gonna be in a hotel Saturday night.

Well good luck.

Just know that my tricep extension with the rope attachment is legendary.

[SPX]

I don't visit facebook or any other pre-teen phenonena sites.

Not to defend Facebook or anything, but Facebook started out as a site that was only for college students (something the movie got right). And at this point, it seems like fucking everyone is on there, even old people, like my dad.

The way I first heard about Facebook is actually a semi-interesting story. I was down in Guatemala at this Spanish school and there was this girl there. We were in the computer room and she was on her Facebook page, and she said something about it, and I naturally responded with, "What the fuck is Facebook?"

She said, "It's like MySpace, but only for college students and without all the bullshit."

I looked at it, filed it away, and went on with my life. Never would I have guessed that it would become what it has. Nor did I ever think it would essentially replace MySpace, which just seemed huge at the time.

[MMA_scientist]

Anyone check out that "Lights out" show on FX? (Ex HW boxing champ, going broke) I'm not really one to watch weekly shows, but I thought this one was pretty good.

Enough with the white guy boxing dramas. How many movies are there about boxers? A lot. How many of them are about white boxers. Almost of them. Racists. It was enough already after Rocky, but then we had 6 Rocky movies, the Russell Crowe one, the Marky Mark one, and now this guy. "Lights Out" is already taken anyway. Racists.

So I am boycotting the show.

[MMA_scientist]

Not to defend Facebook or anything, but Facebook started out as a site that was only for college students (something the movie got right). And at this point, it seems like fucking everyone is on there, even old people, like my dad.

Either it becomes the new email, which I am fine with, or it dies- which would be even better. But all I know is that it annoys the shit out of me when people text while I am in the room with them and it is even worse when I am trying to have a fun time and some douche is taking cell pictures and uploading them to his facebook page like the world is going to implode if all of his "friends" don't know what a great time he is having at that very second. Basically the whole concept pisses me off.

[Thewisemann]

Its gay as fuck.

[MMA_scientist]

Its gay as fuck.

Basically. That is what I was trying to say, but you put it much more succinctly.

[MMA_scientist]

I am looking at a bunch of dogs here... I am not going to bet all of them though.

I already have a small play on Wiman.

I am looking at

Guymon at +130
Beltran at +180
Hague at +210
Alves at +180

I actually feel that Melvin and McKenzie have some value too, but not going to bet those.

I feel strongly that Guymon should be favored over Johnson. I just think he is going to be too strong and better on the ground. Guymon is pretty good.

I think Beltran is going to take Barry down and pound on him or submit him. I mean, Cro Cop subbed Barry without even putting his hooks in. Barry is a whitebelt. I don't remember if Crocop knocked him down with a strike or if he took him down with a takedown. If Cro Cop can score a takedown, Beltran probably can too.

I guess I am leaning: Guymon, Beltran and Wiman. But that would be mean 2 of those guys would have to win for me to come out ahead... so I can't do all of them. I sort of wish I could take back the Wiman bet now. I didn't think the odds would be this lopsided on some of these fights.

[Luke]

Its gay as fuck.


+1

[Luke]

Not to defend Facebook or anything, but Facebook started out as a site that was only for college students (something the movie got right). And at this point, it seems like fucking everyone is on there, even old people, like my dad.

.


Why does anyone over the age over 17 need to vist facebook?

unless they are watching the UFC LOL


Fail UFC Fail

[Mr. IWS]

As crazy as it seems, I am actually leaning towards Beltran too, for the same reasons as above. I think Beltran will take Barry down, and win a decision.

[SPX]

True story: I'm sitting here in class as I type this and there's a group doing a presentation. A girl asked who in the class doesn't have a Facebook page. Out of more than 20 people only three raised their hands.

[Mr. IWS]

There are few things in my life that I can't do in my house, but having a facebook aint ever gonna happen for me. I kinda want one, just to hit up my old friends and what not, but some chick was sending my son some pretty nasty messages (we have the same name) and that was the end of that. Wifey aint going for that now.

[Luke]

True story: I'm sitting here in class as I type this and there's a group doing a presentation. A girl asked who in the class doesn't have a Facebook page. Out of more than 20 people only three raised their hands.

You must be in a theatre class full of gays

[poopoo333]

I plan to bet Beltran if he hits +200. But then again, I am 0-3 on Beltran fights.

[Mr. IWS]

http://www.investwithsports.com/newforum/http://i54.tinypic.com/2ecn61g.jpghttp://www.investwithsports.com/newforum/[IMG]http://i54.tinypic.com/2ecn61g.jpghttp://www.investwithsports.com/newforum/http://i54.tinypic.com/2ecn61g.jpghttp://i54.tinypic.com/2ecn61g.jpg

[SPX]

You must be in a theatre class full of gays

Elements and Issues of Digital Media

But close.

[Luke]

There are few things in my life that I can't do in my house, but having a facebook aint ever gonna happen for me. I kinda want one, just to hit up my old friends and what not, but some chick was sending my son some pretty nasty messages (we have the same name) and that was the end of that. Wifey aint going for that now.

I could see having a facebook page to catch up with old friends but thats not what 99% of people that have one do. They post every picture of the life, everytime they fart or breathe and then check facebook every 5 minutes to see if anyone else they know farted or took a breath that they missed .

[Luke]

http://www.investwithsports.com/newforum/http://i54.tinypic.com/2ecn61g.jpghttp://www.investwithsports.com/newforum/[IMG]http://i54.tinypic.com/2ecn61g.jpghttp://www.investwithsports.com/newforum/http://i54.tinypic.com/2ecn61g.jpghttp://i54.tinypic.com/2ecn61g.jpg



I'm outta of here ...........zewkey here I come

[MMA_scientist]

I could see having a facebook page to catch up with old friends but thats not what 99% of people that have one do. They post every picture of the life, everytime they fart or breathe and then check facebook every 5 minutes to see if anyone else they know farted or took a breath that they missed .

I don't want to catch up with old friends, if I gave a shit about them I would still know what they are doing. My wife has a page, and to my everlasting disgust, there are actually pictures of me on there. But then again, she is a chick. She basically uses like email though to communicate with all of her desparate housewife cronies to plan play groups and what not. And to talk to her friends that have moved. She is a woman though, so I let it slide.

What I cannot stand is the constant look at me stuff. No one gives a shit about you and your stupid ass life. Get over yourself. I think that if you post a pic of all of your good times then you should have to post pics of you while you are crying in a drunken stupor while sitting in a pool of vomit lamenting over where your life went wrong. I would read that. But as to your delicious chai tea or your bad day that you are begging me to inquire about, I really don't give a fuck, so keep it to yourself.

[SPX]

^^^ Brutal.

[MMA_scientist]

^^^ Brutal.

sorry, my fkn ear hurts and I have dealt with one too many annoying clients today.

[Luke]

I don't want to catch up with old friends, if I gave a shit about them I would still know what they are doing. My wife has a page, and to my everlasting disgust, there are actually pictures of me on there. But then again, she is a chick. She basically uses like email though to communicate with all of her desparate housewife cronies to plan play groups and what not. And to talk to her friends that have moved. She is a woman though, so I let it slide.

What I cannot stand is the constant look at me stuff. No one gives a shit about you and your stupid ass life. Get over yourself. I think that if you post a pic of all of your good times then you should have to post pics of you while you are crying in a drunken stupor while sitting in a pool of vomit lamenting over where your life went wrong. I would read that. But as to your delicious chai tea or your bad day that you are begging me to inquire about, I really don't give a fuck, so keep it to yourself.


I'm the sameway ,I dont give a shit what any of my old friends are doing thats why I never made a page. My lady has one thats why I know how gay it is.

Like you said the whole concept is fake. People post every good picture and good thing that happens and pretend their life is great but forget to post the bad shit. I remember the lady telling me about this girl on her page that always posted good things and pictures and then one day out of the blue said her divorce was just finalized . Obv her life wasnt that great if it ended in divorce .
No lead up to it everything was great, great life, great times,great updates ,great vacations,great husband,great familly,then one sentence "my divorce is finally finalized" and then no more talk about it .

I tell the lady everyday to get off the stupid website

[Luke]

Hey MMAscientist maybe me and you can watch the UFC on our ladies facebook pages insertgay.jpg

[SPX]

Here's some scary shit:

It was only a half-truth when I said I don't have a Facebook page.

I don't have a personal page, but I do have one under my pen name because something Facebook is the only way to get in touch with fighters. Then the other day, I was fucking around on there, and somehow it basically imported my entire Yahoo contacts list, and has broadcast my existence to all these people under their "People You May Know" heading. Now people I haven't talked to in years are sending me friend requests.

The fucked up thing is that I never authorized that shit. There are people in my contacts that I don't EVER want to talk to again. I don't even want them to know that I'm still alive. And now they do.

That's gay.

[MMA_scientist]

I tell the lady everyday to get off the stupid website

I wish I was man enough to just tell her how it is. But she gets her feelings hurt, so I am just passive aggresive about it. I call the laptop the "facebook machine." As in "I am done working, the facebook machine is all yours." It pisses her off because she knows that I know she doesn't really do the true facebook. But it is payback for calling bjj "karate" all the time, which she also knows pisses me off.

[poopoo333]

I don't remember if Crocop knocked him down with a strike or if he took him down with a takedown. If Cro Cop can score a takedown, Beltran probably can too.

In round 2, Crocop clinched with Barry against the cage and couldn't bring him down, the ref separated them. Later in the round, Barry missed a high kick and ended up on his knees and Crocop followed him down, put him in a front head lock, and brought Barry to his back, Crocop then easily passed to half guard, mount, and then got Barry's back. In round 3, Crocop dropped Barry with punches then got the RNC

[MMA_scientist]

In round 2, Crocop clinched with Barry against the cage and couldn't bring him down, the ref separated them. Later in the round, Barry missed a high kick and ended up on his knees and Crocop followed him down, put him in a front head lock, and brought Barry to his back, Crocop then easily passed to half guard, mount, and then got Barry's back. In round 3, Crocop dropped Barry with punches then got the RNC

Hmm. Maybe Barry's takedown defense is better than I remembered. I think Barry will decimate Beltran if Beltran has to stand for more than a couple minutes. I will probably stay off that one then. Thanks. Think I will put something small on Guymon.

[poopoo333]

But then again, Cro Cop wasn't trying too hard for the TD. He seemed content with clinching against the cage. But when Barry is on his back, he really is like a fish out of water.

[MMA_scientist]

Hey MMAscientist maybe me and you can watch the UFC on our ladies facebook pages insertgay.jpg

it has already crossed my mind. I am hoping anyone can view UFC's facebook page though... I am not sure how all of that stuff works.

[poopoo333]

^^you have to "like" it.

[poopoo333]

Scientist, keep in mind Guymon is kind of a nutcase. MMAjunkie even just put an article out about it. That's the reason I only put 0.5u on it

[MMA_scientist]

There are people in my contacts that I don't EVER want to talk to again. I don't even want them to know that I'm still alive. And now they do.

That's gay.

I am not hard to find, I am the only person with my name, and a quick google will return all kinds of information about me. Since no one ever randomly contacts me, I have to assume they also do not give a shit about me and are therefore not googling me and calling me. One more reason to not need a facebook page.