Strikeforce's 2011 Heavyweight Grand-Prix

[Luke]

And here I spent my days thinking the closest we would ever get to the Strikeforce Heavyweight GP would be on Sunday Night Fights. I'm glad I was wrong as usual, it turns out TATAME has the details regarding the long rumored Strikeforce heavyweight GP. So just what is happening with the nuclear stockpile of heavyweights Strikeforce has been amassing? Take a load off, its Sunday, I'm losing in fantasy football so let me break it down for you.

It looks like Fedor/Bigfoot is going to be the opening quarterfinal match in February 2011. I still stand by Fedor fighting at the Arnolds in March, but for now, Fedor and Bigfoot Silva are touching gloves this Black History Month. The other quarterfinal bouts are shaping up to be Werdum/Kharitonov which will go down in March. It's nice to finally see Kharitonov back in action. Rogers vs. Barnett will be added to a card that definitely wont take place in California. And finally, The Reem will take on Arvloski in a match that could have theoretically happened in the 2010 K-1 GP. TATAME is also reporting that the tourney will be divided into three stages: quarterfinal, semifinal and finals for the two of you who don't know how a tournament is structured, and starting with the semifinals, all of this will be broadcast on PPV.


..

[poopoo333]

lmao, yeah right. Odds on Strikeforce actually being able to go through with their plans: +500000000

[Ludo]

Strikeforce on Pay Per View? Showtime = not impressed.

[poopoo333]

Brett Rogers vs Josh Barnett...this would be very lulzworthy if it really happened

[Luke]

I think putting these on PPV is a good idea. I'm not going to buy them but I'm sure Strikeforce will put a better card on PPV than alot of UFC cards that are on PPV

[edman5555]

This is pretty fucking cool. If they spread them out though then its not really a grand prix. A grand prix has guys fighting multiple times on one night. If they dont do that then they are really only doing a tournanment and they are trying to call it a grand prix just to hype it up. If ya know what i mean.

[SPX]

If ya know what i mean.

We do, as a matter of fact.

[Mr. IWS]

I love it, but I have a feeling this thing will fall apart. Either M-1 fucks over everyone if Fedor beats Bigfoot, or Barnett fucks up again. Then I'm sure one or two guys will pull out with an injury.

Then Dana will tell big nose Helwani, about how this is why the UFC don't do Gran Prix's.

[MMA_scientist]

If it happens it is awesome. Odds of it happening are slim though. SF can't even get Fedor to fight once per year, I doubt they can get him to do a Bellator style tourney...

[poopoo333]

The first two quarterfinal bouts will take place on Feb. 12, with Fedor Emelianenko (http://www.sbnation.com/mma/fighter/122490/fedor-emelianenko) taking on Antonio Silva (http://www.sbnation.com/mma/fighter/122502/antonio-silva), while Sergei Kharitonov (http://www.sbnation.com/mma/fighter/128654/sergei-kharitonov) will face Andrei Arlovski (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/tags/andrei-arlovski). Earlier Tuesday, MMA Fighting reported Emelianenko's contract extension with Strikeforce (http://www.sbnation.com/mma/promotion/strikeforce), paving the way for his entrance into the field.

The other two quarterfinal bouts include Josh Barnett (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/tags/josh-barnett) facing Brett Rogers (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/tags/brett-rogers) and Alistair Overeem (http://www.sbnation.com/mma/fighter/122499/alistair-overeem) taking on Fabricio Werdum (http://www.sbnation.com/mma/fighter/122505/fabricio-werdum), the last man to beat Emelianenko.

While the Emelianenko-Silva and Kharitonov-Arlovski fights will take place at the Izod Center in East Rutherford, New Jersey, the location and date of the second set of quarterfinals is still to be determined.

[Mr. IWS]

Noice!

[poopoo333]

I have my doubts that this will go through, but I am hoping the bracket is set up so Fedor/Silva and Werdum/Overeem winners fight each other.

inb4 Silva vs Werdum

[poopoo333]

Seriously though, Barnett will fuck this up. He hasn't been cleared yet, and when he does he will probably just fail another drug test. Hopefully they have Del Rosario, Cormier, Johnson, or maybe even Sylvia to be a back up for this.

[MMA_scientist]

I hope they are on opposite sides of the bracket. While I live Werdum and hope he wins, any one of the guys in the tourney could beat him, he won't make it to the finals. I would like to see Overeem/Fedor final. I would also like to see Arlovski/Fedor again. IMOm Barnett will make the final if he doesn't have to fight Overeem.

[MMA_scientist]

I would love it of the expanded it to include Cormier and Sylvia.

Cormier is going to be champ at some point.

[edman5555]

I give Overeem the edge against Werdum. From what I read he was dominating in the first fight before Werdum subbed him. He is just so god damn big and hits so god damn hard. I'd like to see Fedor Vs Overeem in the finals as well. Only because I would like to bet a shitload of money on Reem. I bet I could get him at Udog odds.

[Mr. IWS]

Cant wait to see how if after Fedor wins, M1 wants to renegotiate the deal they just signed.

[edman5555]

Yeah M1 is ridiculous and I am legitimately at the point where I don't really care what Fedor does. I used to follow it almost daily. I don't believe he can run the gauntlet and beat everyone.

[Luke]

lmao, yeah right. Odds on Strikeforce actually being able to go through with their plans: +500000000


Can I still get money down at +500000000?

[poopoo333]

Can I still get money down at +500000000?

No the line was taken down last night

[Luke]

no the line was taken down last night





fffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuucccccccccckkkkkkkkk!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!! Meeeee

[MMA_scientist]

I give Overeem the edge against Werdum. From what I read he was dominating in the first fight before Werdum subbed him. He is just so god damn big and hits so god damn hard. I'd like to see Fedor Vs Overeem in the finals as well. Only because I would like to bet a shitload of money on Reem. I bet I could get him at Udog odds.

I think Overeem would probably beat Werdum this time around as well. Honestly, any fighter in the tourney COULD beat Werdum on any given night. I think he could beat anyone, but his style just doesn't lend itself to beating a variety of styles.

I think Fedor would beat Overeem though. I wouldn't be shocked if Barnett won the whole thing either. Arlovski is done overall, but could knock someone off too.

[Luke]

I think Overeem would probably beat Werdum this time around as well. Honestly, any fighter in the tourney COULD beat Werdum on any given night. I think he could beat anyone, but his style just doesn't lend itself to beating a variety of styles.

I think Fedor would beat Overeem though. I wouldn't be shocked if Barnett won the whole thing either. Arlovski is done overall, but could knock someone off too.


Barnett ? Seriously?

[poopoo333]

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/626382/2s987j8_medium.jpg

[Luke]

^^^^^^^^ So we're looking at a Barnett -Fedor or Overeem-Barnett final ?



Wonder if any books will put up odds for the winner of the tourney?

[poopoo333]

They should take Rogers out and replace him with Cormier or Timmeh.

[Luke]

Shane Del Rosario fights Lavar Johnson on Feb. 12 in an alternate Strikeforce heavyweight tournament fight. Will be on the televised card





Ray Sefo vs. Valentijn Overeem verbally agreed for Feb. 12 SF.


..

[poopoo333]

SDR and Johnson?! I can't wait for that shit

[MMA_scientist]

Barnett ? Seriously?

I can't stand Barnett, he is fuckn tool IMO. But he is pretty damn good. And he has a style that I could see winning a grandprix. He is well rounded: good enough striking to beat most of the guys, strong takedowns, good submissions. He can use his ground game to beat Overeem, use his top control to beat Fedor, and use his striking to beat Werdum.

Not saying he will win it, but it is totally viable. Whereas a guy like Werdum, he pretty much has to take these guys down to beat them. He can do it to several of them, but I think he could easily get knocked out by Fedor, Overeem, Rogers (Arlovski already stuffed his takedowns once), and Bigfoot nearly beat him in round 1 of thier 1st fight.

I just think a style to win a tourney is different than a style to win a selected opponent. You have to either be able to impose your game on everyone by being the best wrestler, or be very well rounded.

[MMA_scientist]

I hope the give us early odds on who wins the whole thing. I think you could probably get pretty good odds on anyone but Overeem or Fedor.

Looking at that bracket, I would bet on Barnett because he has a much easier path to the finals than Overeem/Fedor.

[poopoo333]

I just read that they are trying to set up Kyle/Mousasi for the February card as well.

[edman5555]

Barnett should beat Rogers. I don't know who wins between Arlovski and Sergei. Barnett has a good chance of beating either one of them. Hopefully Fedor beats Silva. Don't forget the size difference and the fact that Silva is pretty decent. If he can take Fedor down he might be able to pound him out. I am sure he can defend subs well enough, he is a black belt. Whatever happens, I hope Overeem wins. I know he would crush Giant Silva and I think he would crush Fedor. I would bet both pretty hard.

I don't see what advantages you think Fedor holds. Honestly I think he gets crushed or he lands a lucky punch.

[Mr. IWS]

After seeing the way Silva got dropped by Kyle, I can see Fedor Knocking him out early.

[poopoo333]

Yeah I am concerned Bigfoot will use his size and keep Fedor up against the cage/get takedowns and stay there

[edman5555]

It can go either way.

[Luke]

I'm reading that everytime the title is on the line its going to be a 5 round fight ,the rest will be 3 round fights . I guess thats how it should be but it justs seems odd to me some fights are 3 rounds and some are 5 .

[MMA_scientist]

Fedor will whup Bigfoot easily. Bigfoot's bjj is not good enough to stop Fedor. Even though Bigfoot is pretty big, he isn't really any bigger than Werdum. Actually, when they fought, Werdum looked like the bigger of the two to me.

I can't believe how quickly people are changing their tune on Fedor. Last year, he was totally unstoppable and Werdum had no chance. He damn near finished Werdum in 30 seconds, ends up making a tactical mistake by not respecting Werdum's guard, and now he might lose to Bigfoot? GTFO, Fedor is and should be the favorite in the tournament. He can beat Overeem in a number of ways... by just outlasting the initial onslaught the fight changes dramatically. I wouldn't be surprised to see Fedor knock Overeem out either. Or take him down and wail on him, or even submit him. I never thought Fedor was invincible, but I don't sell him short either. He is the greatest MMA fighter of all time, and he lost to a legit opponent who he dropped seconds into the fight.

[Luke]

I can't believe how quickly people are changing their tune on Fedor. Last year, he was totally unstoppable and Werdum had no chance. He damn near finished Werdum in 30 seconds, ends up making a tactical mistake by not respecting Werdum's guard, and now he might lose to Bigfoot? GTFO, Fedor is and should be the favorite in the tournament. .



People overreact to everything . If Fedor lines is decent I'm jumping all over it

[MMA_scientist]

People overreact to everything . If Fedor lines is decent I'm jumping all over it

Truth.

[poopoo333]

I still think fedor is one of the best, I was just throwing out possible ways he may lose. I think fedor will be -450 or worse.

[edman5555]

I don't see how Fedor holds advantages on Reem. Oreem probably has about 40 pounds of muscle on Fedor. He is huge compared to Fedor. His striking is better than Fedors. It has to be at this point. He is the K1 grand prix champ. Grappling is hard to call. Let's say Fedor is better than Reem. How much of that is negated by the fact that Reem is so much stronger than him. He can power out of some sub attempts that most people wouldnt be able to. Wrestling....Fedor will have trouble getting Reem down just because he is so god damn big and strong. He tossed Brett Rogers around like he was a little girl. Brett GNP'd Fedor.

Fedor is the man but the days of one dimensional fighters is over and those are the guys Fedor excelled at beating.

[poopoo333]

^^Did you not see Fedor basically throwing Rogers to the floor as well?

[edman5555]

i dont remember that

[poopoo333]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94rwn_Je3Tg

[Luke]

Fedor is the man but the days of one dimensional fighters is over and those are the guys Fedor excelled at beating.


I cant take anything you say seriously anymore after this statement .

[Luke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94rwn_Je3Tg



This tourney could make SF huge or ruin them if them f it up

[edman5555]

I cant take anything you say seriously anymore after this statement .

Fedor isn't going to make it through the Grand Prix Silly.

[edman5555]

BTW. Fedor won for a long time because he was way more well rounded than his opponents. He is a Sambo fighter. Sambo is actually really close to MMA. Most of his opponents didn't have high levels of skill in multiple areas. I'm not saying Fedor isn't great, he is amazing. But the guys now are really good in multiple areas as well. On top of that they are much bigger than Fedor. MMA is changing.

[Luke]

Fedor isn't going to make it through the Grand Prix Silly.


It was a joke........how dare you say something negative about Fedor



but I do think he wins the tourney

[edman5555]

It's def possible but the guys in it are actually all pretty good. Props to strikeforce for putting this together.

[Mr. IWS]

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/626382/2s987j8_medium.jpg

LOL @ Barnett. I gotta hand it to that guy. Gets popped for roids again, does some wrasslin in Japan until that shit blows over, then pops back up with the easiest road to the finals in the Grand Prix.

[MMA_scientist]

LOL @ Barnett. I gotta hand it to that guy. Gets popped for roids again, does some wrasslin in Japan until that shit blows over, then pops back up with the easiest road to the finals in the Grand Prix.

Yeah what the hell is up with that bracket? The best 4 guys are all on one side of the bracket. It is common to do this in MMA tourneys I guess, they want to be sure that Overeem and Fedor get to fight, and an additional fight risks injury and other problems. I wish they would have put Werdum on the other side of the bracket though... Put Werdum with Rogers or Barnett, and put Arlovski or Sergei with Overeem.

[Mr. IWS]

I would have seeded it like this:

1. Overeem (he is the champ)
8. Arlovski

4. Barnett
5. Sliva ( you could really flip flop Barnett or Silva here)

3. Fedor
6. Karitonov

2. Werdum (by virtue of his win over Fedor)
7. Rogers


In the second round, you would have gotten either your Fedor/Werdum rematch, or a rematch with Bert. I would have liked to see either one of them.

[Dr_Ngo]

The tournament's just a marketing gimmick. Without the tournament we'd get the same fights.

The fights that make the most sense is overeem vs. Werdum for the title. Fedor vs. Silva for #1 contender.

On the otherside of the brackets are the bums. Whoever is the best of them is a legitimate contender next.

However this whole "tournament" is going to really help Strikeforce. If this was a "real" tournament there would be seeds and we'll be seeing Overeem vs. Fedor on opposites sides to ensure a sick "finals."

Another x-factor is fucking Fedor. Is he going to last through the whole thing? Just afraid that he'll beat Big Foot, overeem beats Werdum, and he wants nothing to do with the reem.

[MMA_scientist]

I don't know why everyone thinks Overeem is going to beat Fedor. Zak, true seeding, I think I agree with your seeds. Although, I could see a case for Werdum #1, he has already fought all 3 guys on his side of the bracket, and he has already beaten all of them. But he did "lose" to Arlovski...

But odds wise, I would seed it (my lines):

1. Fedor
2. Overeem
3. Barnett
4. Werdum
5. Bigfoot
6. Sergei
7. Rogers
8. Arlovski

Honestly, though, I would not be shocked to see Arlovski in the finals. His takedown defense is pretty good, and he can probably handle Sergei and Barnett standing (Barnett is going to beat Rogers easily IMO).

Given the bracket we have, I go:

1. Fedor
2. Overeem
3. Barnett
4. Arlovski
5. Sergei
6. Werdum
7. Rogers
8. Bigfoot

Bigfoot really got hosed. He has to run through Fedor and Overeem/Werdum to get to the finals...

[Mr. IWS]

Another x-factor is fucking Fedor.

This

[Luke]

Another x-factor is fucking Fedor. Is he going to last through the whole thing? Just afraid that he'll beat Big Foot, overeem beats Werdum, and he wants nothing to do with the reem.


Well Fedor just signed a 4 or 5 fight extension with Strikeforce I would think this was all discussed during the neg. ,but who knows

[Luke]

http://www.bestfightodds.com/events/356.png


Fedors line is too high for me to bet ,if people start pounding AA I might take Sergei at a nice sized dog

[Luke]

http://www.bestfightodds.com/events/197.png


Barnett is about what I expected ,Overeem is a little lower than I figured would come out

[edman5555]

I think Silva has more of a chance against Fedor than people are giving him but I am def rooting for Fedor. I hope Reem beats werdum as well. Then we get to see Reem vs Fedor. Anyone predict a line for that?

[Svino]

Fedor vs. Reem? Fedor -200 or so?

Depends on how they look in their respective first-round fights. I also think the odds on Fedor/Silva are too steep considering Fedor's long layoff. Silva's pretty good.

[edman5555]

I think they would be closer. I'm not sure how the public would bet it though. Who would the money come in on?

[Luke]

I think they would be closer. I'm not sure how the public would bet it though. Who would the money come in on?

I agree with svino I was thinking Fedor -175 to -200. As for who would money come in on that all depends how these first rounds fights go because most peoples minds only remember a fighters last fight. If Fedor wins a sloppy 3 round decision and Overeem wins in 30 seconds then all the money will probably come in on Reem. If Fedor KO's Silva and Overeem struggles with Werdum then money probably comes in on Fedor

[MMA_scientist]

I don't see how Silva can beat Fedor. Fedor has way better hands and Silva is not going to submit him... MAYBE he could win a round via top control if he could take Fefor down, which I doubt. Silva also gasses badly. Fedor is going to beat Silva.

I might take Werdum to be AO at those odds. Werdum has already shown he has enough to submit him (I know I know, it was 4 years ago). The question is whether Werdum can get him down... I might be willing to bet that +210

I was hopng Barnett would closer. I though it he might be like -150... guess I was wrong. I think the lines will move considerably in some of these fights so I am going to do nothing right now.

[poopoo333]

Barnett probably still has value @-300

[zY|]

Both look like well set lines to me. Barnett might have value, but who knows, the guy hasn't fought in 5000 years. Werdum at +210 might not be bad either, but every time I tell myself that my brain visualizes him trying to get past Alistair's offense to get a takedown and it's hilarious.

[MMA_scientist]

Both look like well set lines to me. Barnett might have value, but who knows, the guy hasn't fought in 5000 years. Werdum at +210 might not be bad either, but every time I tell myself that my brain visualizes him trying to get past Alistair's offense to get a takedown and it's hilarious.

It does seem sort of impossible... but Werdum has been running all over town telling everyone he has developed a "new" guard for mma (like most things, it is just a system built off of regular guard play) that allows him to play guard infinitely without every getting hit. It is basically a twist on the overhook posture control that most high level guys use... but Werdum did some him from his back once before. It really was not THAT long ago. He is also saying that he purposely fell back so that Fedor would come into his guard (which I in no way believe).

I think Werdum could probably play guard and not take a lot of damage against most guys though, just because he is high level and most of those guys know how to control posture well enough that you can't really hit them. The problem is getting someone to agree to go down there and fight him. But Overeem's takedown defense has never been super amazing. Overeem really hasn't beaten that many good fighters. Since he lost to Werdum in 2006, he really hasn't beaten anyone except Rogers. Also, he has lost to a lot of grapplers. Not saying Werdum is going to win, but Overeem's hype is built on a bed of lies.

[zY|]

But Werdum gets smashed in every fight. Fedor hit him right off the bat, BigFoot almost finished him in the first round, and before that he was faceplanting vs dos Santos. I can't imagine Overeem not just going absolutely buckwild on Werdum's corpse if he manages to hurt him.

[MMA_scientist]

Seriously, what is Overeem's best win ever in MMA? I think it is Rogers. Other than that, maybe Sergei (who beat him later)... Belfort I guess, but he is a MW. Really, bottom line, Overeem really has not beaten very many good fighters. Werdum would be the very best guy Overeem has ever defeated by a mile.

[edman5555]

It does seem sort of impossible... but Werdum has been running all over town telling everyone he has developed a "new" guard for mma (like most things, it is just a system built off of regular guard play) that allows him to play guard infinitely without every getting hit. It is basically a twist on the overhook posture control that most high level guys use... but Werdum did some him from his back once before. It really was not THAT long ago. He is also saying that he purposely fell back so that Fedor would come into his guard (which I in no way believe).

I think Werdum could probably play guard and not take a lot of damage against most guys though, just because he is high level and most of those guys know how to control posture well enough that you can't really hit them. The problem is getting someone to agree to go down there and fight him. But Overeem's takedown defense has never been super amazing. Overeem really hasn't beaten that many good fighters. Since he lost to Werdum in 2006, he really hasn't beaten anyone except Rogers. Also, he has lost to a lot of grapplers. Not saying Werdum is going to win, but Overeem's hype is built on a bed of lies.

I buy the falling down on purpose thing, I actually thought it after it happened. I don't think he got rocked that hard did he? I'd have to watch it agin, I saw it as it happened which was very quick.

[Thewisemann]

3.22u on Reem to win 1.5u

[Mr. IWS]

I just dont see how Werdum is going to get it to the floor. When he bails out and hits the deck when Overeem throws, I really doubt he follows Werdum to the mat, especially after seeing what happened to Fedor.

That nigga will be gettin his butt scoot on for most of the fight.

[Luke]

I just dont see how Werdum is going to get it to the floor. When he bails out and hits the deck when Overeem throws, I really doubt he follows Werdum to the mat, especially after seeing what happened to Fedor.

That nigga will be gettin his butt scoot on for most of the fight.


I agree Overeem aint following him to the floor

[MMA_scientist]

Just saying, Overeem's overall MMA skill is overrated. He has been beating up on guys that aren't even top 20, with the exception of Rogers. And in his entire career, he only has a couple of wins over top 20 opponents, and Rogers is his sole top 10 win ever (but Rogers was a flukey top 10 IMO).

I think Overeem will win, don't get me wrong. But I wouldn't be surprised to see Werdum take him down at all. Rogers and Duffee just went out and traded with him... Werdum, Fedor, Barnett... those guys are not just going to stand in front of him and trade shots.

I won't be shocked to see Overeem go out and finish Werdum in 30 seconds either, but IMO, he either finishes it quick or it is a close fight.

[Mr. IWS]

Overeem's overall MMA skill is overrated.

I agree.

[edman5555]

His overall MMA skill is overrated. Your right, but his wrestling/grappling are decent enough. When you combine decent wrestling and grappling with great striking and tremendous size you get a good MMA fighter.

[edman5555]

Overeem has a legit shot at beating any Heavyweight he fights. Plenty of guys have that same legit shot at beating him.

[MMA_scientist]

For sure, he is good. He has won more fights via submission than via strikes fwiw. But people who are just now becoming aware of him think he is an unstoppable monster. He isn't, he has just been fighting shitty fighters for several years in a row without a real challenge.

I think he is definitely top 10 though. I don't think he is bad by any means... but people talk about him like Fedor would be an easy fight for him, which is just sort of ridiculous.

[edman5555]

Not easy but I favor him. I'll break down why. I think the fight will be decided in the standup. Fedor is good with takedowns but Overeem doesn't seem to be bad at defending them though I admit I haven't watched a lot of his fights. I think his size alone will be enough to throw Fedor off of him. Fedor is a pudgy 230. Overeem is a enormously jacked roided up 260 pounds. On top of that, even if Fedor can get it to the ground Reem is competent enough to avoid the sub and stand. Standing, Overeem should have the advantage. Superior reach, strength and striking skill.

[zY|]

I think we'll have a much better idea of how Overeem and Fedor match up after watching their respective first round fights. Fedor fights so infrequently and Overeem hasn't fought a top fighter in 5000 years.

[edman5555]

So far I think the good bets are Barnett over Rogers and Sergei over Arlovski.

[edman5555]

2.5u Sergei to win 2.5u

[Luke]

Valentijn Overeem (28-25), a 15-year MMA veteran and older brother to Strikeforce heavyweight champion Alistair, will meet eight-time K-1 World Grand Prix (kickboxing) finalist Ray Sefo (2-0) in one of three reserve bouts, all constructed to provide alternates should any of the tournament field lose its footing along the way. Chad Griggs (9-1), who surprised many by taking out former WWE pro wrestler Bobby Lashley in two rounds last August, has also been seeded into the reserve brackets against an opponent to be revealed shortly, said Coker.
ESPN.com reported last Tuesday that Strikeforce Challengers headliners Lavar Johnson (15-3) and Shane Del Rosario (7-1) will get the final reserve bout slot.
The five heavyweight bouts will air live Feb. 12 on Showtime, Coker told the Times.



.

[poopoo333]

I hope griggs is set up with cormier.

[Ludo]

My only concern with Sergei over Arlovski is that flat footed style of his. If Arlvoski comes in confident he could dance around and pick Sergei off all fight long.

[Ludo]

I buy the falling down on purpose thing, I actually thought it after it happened. I don't think he got rocked that hard did he? I'd have to watch it agin, I saw it as it happened which was very quick.


From the looks of it he does get hit pretty good with the first punch Fedor throws in the exchange, and maybe the second one, but the one that was supposed to hit clean totally misses before Werdum falls. Either he was caught off balance or he was playing possum. It's hard to tell for sure though.

http://www.mma-core.com/videos/__HQ_Fedor_vs_Werdum_Strikeforce?vid=10011564&tid=100

[poopoo333]

Strikeforce Signs Gian Villante, Battles Chad Griggs in Third Grand Prix Reserve Bout (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/1/11/1929230/strikeforce-signs-gian-villante-battles-chad-griggs-in-third-grand)




Gian Villante, a two-time champion in Ring of Combat and Levittown native, has signed a multifight contract with Strikeforce (http://www.sbnation.com/mma/promotion/strikeforce), Newsday has learned.

Villante will make his Strikeforce debut in the heavyweight division against Chad Griggs on the Feb. 12 card at the Izod Center in East Rutherford, N.J.

[MMA_scientist]

Those are some weak alternates. They better be praying they don't have to get in there...

[Luke]

Those are some weak alternates. They better be praying they don't have to get in there...


The UFC couldnt even put on a 8 man HW tourney , they dont have 8 legit HW's


1.Cain
2.Carwin
3.Lesnar
4.JDS
5.Mir
6.NOG
7.Nelson

then who? Schaub or Rothwell lol

forget alternates if the UFC had one

No organization in the world has enough HW's to put on a 8 man tourney and still have 6 top fighters for alternates

[SPX]

^^^ I know he's been looking like shit, but you could still throw Big Nog's name in the 8th place.

[Luke]

^^^ I know he's been looking like shit, but you could still throw Big Nog's name in the 8th place.



Well its already in the 6th place. You want him to fight on both sides of the bracket?

[SPX]

Well its already in the 6th place. You want him to fight on both sides of the bracket?

Oh whoops, didn't see that shit somehow. Maybe since it was all caps my mind read it as initials or some shit.

[Luke]

Oh whoops, didn't see that shit somehow. Maybe since it was all caps my mind read it as initials or some shit.


No worries, my mind hasnt been working right lately either so I know what you mean

[poopoo333]

Bookmaker has odds to win the tourney up:

Fedor +160

Overeem +200

Barnett +400

Arlovski +900

Kharitonov +2000

Silva +1800

Werdum +1400

Rogers +3000

[edman5555]

Cool. Fedor is favored.

[Svino]

Steve Jennum's going to win it all.

[SPX]

Steve Jennum's going to win it all.

Nigga, Steve Jennum would fuck you up.

Don't play.

[MMA_scientist]

Bookmaker has odds to win the tourney up:

Fedor +160

Overeem +200

Barnett +400

Arlovski +900

Kharitonov +2000

Silva +1800

Werdum +1400

Rogers +3000


Given the bracket we have, I go:

1. Fedor
2. Overeem
3. Barnett
4. Arlovski
5. Sergei
6. Werdum
7. Rogers
8. Bigfoot

Bigfoot really got hosed. He has to run through Fedor and Overeem/Werdum to get to the finals...

What's up. Pretty damn close.

[MMA_scientist]

MIght do a small bet on Barnett and Arlovski. Since they are on the weak side of the pool, one of them will probably make the finals... As long as it is not Overeem/Arlovski, I think either guy could win.

[MMA_scientist]

The UFC couldnt even put on a 8 man HW tourney , they dont have 8 legit HW's


1.Cain
2.Carwin
3.Lesnar
4.JDS
5.Mir
6.NOG
7.Nelson

then who? Schaub or Rothwell lol

forget alternates if the UFC had one

No organization in the world has enough HW's to put on a 8 man tourney and still have 6 top fighters for alternates

I wasn't knocking it, just saying those alternates are going to be in some deep shit if they actually have to fight.

I have always maintained that SF HW's were superior to the UFC HW's. I still believe that, and I think SF has the best HW (Fedor) and more top 10 HW's than the UFC.

[SPX]

I have always maintained that SF HW's were superior to the UFC HW's. I still believe that, and I think SF has the best HW (Fedor) and more top 10 HW's than the UFC.

I'd like to see a UFC/SF Royal Rumble.

[Svino]

I'd like to see a UFC/SF Royal Rumble.

IMO, that would be the best thing to happen in MMA evar.

[Svino]

Oh, Strikeforce...

http://www.cagepotato.com/strange-twist-strikeforce-heavyweight-grand-prix-format-overeems-belt-will-not-be-grabs-during-tourn

[Mr. IWS]

Oh, Strikeforce...

http://www.cagepotato.com/strange-twist-strikeforce-heavyweight-grand-prix-format-overeems-belt-will-not-be-grabs-during-tourn

Cool.

The SF HW belt will be on the shelf for another year. That thing gets defended once per presidential term.

[poopoo333]

- The @Strikeforce (http://twitter.com/Strikeforce)heavyweight tournament fights will be 3 rounds and @alistairovereem (http://twitter.com/alistairovereem)'s title will not be on the line.
- The tourney winner then fights for SF title.
- Coker says Overeem will continue "The Reem" doc through the SF tourney.
- Coker says the fighters won't be competing elsewhere between tournament fights.
- Coker says the semi-finals are being targed for "late June/July."
- Coker won't say that Overeem won't fight in K-1 (http://www.sbnation.com/mma/promotion/k-1) this year, only that he's "committed" to the tournament until it concludes.
- "If any fight is deemed a draw, it will come down to a 4th independent judge who will decide the winner."
- @stevecofield (http://twitter.com/stevecofield): Coker indicates Daniel Cormier will likely be in a Strikeforce HWT GP alternate bout in the future
- @JoshGrossESPN (http://twitter.com/JoshGrossESPN): Coker's position that SF couldn't make 5R fights because it was too difficult with different regulators is ridiculous. California, N.J., Missouri, Tennessee told me 5R fights were fine by them. All said they had not been approached by Strikeforce re: it.
- @DamonMartin (http://twitter.com/DamonMartin): The Strikeforce Grand Prix is no different than the old Pride Grand Prix. Technically both Fedor & Big Nog had titles going into that.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


- Fedor - "I made an error in my previous fight...but nothing has changed inside of me. I train harder and hope to do better in my next fight."
- I'm very proud to be in the tournament. Very proud to represent my country.
- I'm happy to fight anyone. Silva is a very tough opponent. We've crossed paths in locker rooms. He's always been very cordial.
- This tournament is just as good or better than the Pride tournaments.
- I wouldn't mind training with someone like Shane Carwin, but I will probably be training in Russia.
- If people think they've found my biggest weakness, let them try to exploit it.



- Big Foot Silva - "Fedor is a legend. To be a legend, you must beat a legend & I'm ready to prove that I'm the #1 heavyweight in the world!"
- For me, fighting Fedor is the final.
- Werdum showed Fedor's weakest aspect is rolling on the ground.
- "I know I can beat him…at the right time God gave me the right fight"

[SPX]

Fedor - "I made an error in my previous fight...but nothing has changed inside of me. I train harder and hope to do better in my next fight."It would be cool if losing to Werdum actually lit some kind of fire under Fedor after Fedor grew complacent, and now we see Super Fedor.

[MMA_scientist]

I don't know how much more super you can get. Before Werdum he was on a 30 fight win streak, and had not gone to a decision since 2005. Fedor is/was super Fedor. It is crazy how quickly the tide turns against these guys. I am not even a Fedor fan... but cmon, Fedor's record is incredible.

[zY|]

Awful. So if the winner is anyone other than Overeem, they win the chance to fight...Overeem.

[zY|]

And yeah, I would absolutely love it if Fedor went on a murderous rampage and just merked everyone.

[MMA_scientist]

I would like to see Fedor KO Bigfoot, which I think he will. I would actually like to see Werdum beat Overeem via flukey submission and give Fedor a chance to get his mystique back by avenging that (even though I am a Werdum fan, I think it serves the greatest good to have Fedor looming out there sticking it to the UFC). Then Fedor wins in the finals and then fights Overeem for a super match, but the fight still have some shine because his loss to Werdum was flukey (a cut would be ideal, but that would require Werdum actually landing a strike which is probably too much to hope for). This is all way too much to hope for though, and I will actually be surprised if they get the first round of this thing done.

[edman5555]

I am worried that Giant Silva will use his 30-40 pound weight advantage to take Fedor down and GNP him.

[zY|]

This is all way too much to hope for though, and I will actually be surprised if they get the first round of this thing done.

That's my thinking.

[MMA_scientist]

I am worried that Giant Silva will use his 30-40 pound weight advantage to take Fedor down and GNP him.

^ Could hapen I suppose. I guess I am selling Bigfoot short. He did outstrike Arlovski, and he is a bjj bb that survived 15 mins with Werdum. I will say this, Fedor has never really had what I would call a technical ground game. He gets put in bad spots kind of often for a great fighter... I said before the Werdum fight that I thought Werdum could get him down and put him in a bad position and win a decision. I was wrong, but I suppose Bigfoot could do the same thing, but he is just not as good as Werdum. I don't know, I really think Fedor is going to beat him somewhat easily. I don't think Bigfoot can get him down without getting blasted first and even if gets him down, Fedor will get up. And even if he doesn't get up, Bigfoot will tire like he always does after 1 round.

[edman5555]

i hope

[SPX]

I don't know how much more super you can get. Before Werdum he was on a 30 fight win streak, and had not gone to a decision since 2005. Fedor is/was super Fedor. It is crazy how quickly the tide turns against these guys. I am not even a Fedor fan... but cmon, Fedor's record is incredible.

I'm referencing the way that a lot of people were saying Fedor looked like he was slowing down just a bit in his last few fights and that he looked like maybe he was growing complacent.

[Luke]

Bookmaker has odds to win the tourney up:

Fedor +160

Overeem +200

Barnett +400

Arlovski +900

Kharitonov +2000

Silva +1800

Werdum +1400

Rogers +3000

I dont like any of those. +170 on Fedor to win 3 fights ......forget it. Overeem might be +180 against Fedor so why lay +200 to win the whole thing. Barnett might be +300 to +350 against Fedor so same reasoning as Overeem. The only value is probably with Werdum but I wouldnt bet it

[Luke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfBOVPvf6Tw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfBOVPvf6Tw)

[Luke]

Igor Gracie vs. John Salgado added to Strikeforce card on Feb 12 http://ht.ly/3Eggr (http://ht.ly/3Eggr)

[Mr. IWS]

http://www.mmalinker.com/wiki/images/c/c0/Pcs.jpg

[poopoo333]

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/1/17/1940958/strikeforce-fedor-trains-for-bigfoot-silva#storyjump


^Fedor training for Silva.

I wonder what crazy secret of his is for him to be riding a horse while preparing for Bigfoot?

[zY|]

LOL awesome. Fedor takes this tourney with EASE.

http://efedor.ru/img/photo/big/574.jpg

http://efedor.ru/img/photo/big/572.jpg

[MMA_scientist]

Fedor is a legitimate badass. He has warm up pants on with a leather jacket and boots and he still looks awesome.

[Mr. IWS]

Fight will be won with this:

http://efedor.ru/img/photo/big/584.jpg

[poopoo333]

Fight will be won with this:

http://efedor.ru/img/photo/big/584.jpg


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y122/TallShow/WWE%20FireFest%202007/Scotty2Hotty.jpg

[poopoo333]

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/2576/fedorhorsereem.gif

[poopoo333]

And so it begins:

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/1/19/1943949/fedors-manager-requests-drug-testing-for-heavyweight-semi-finals#comments

"The only thing I said and will say, Fedor - is clean. He trains in the mountains, to improve endurance, and from the eight fighters, they have already caught two for doping - Josh Barnett (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/tags/josh-barnett) and Antonio Silva (http://www.sbnation.com/mma/fighter/122502/antonio-silva). And surely someone else uses it, while they insist that it is all the same, to have equal strength."

"We have never shied away from a particular battle, I just want for his fighter to be professional opponent, "not a chemist." Today doping can significantly add speed and endurance. We just want all parties to the Grand Prix and potential rivals to play by the rules."

"Terms of the tournament are determined, the grid is painted. Although, if Fedor will be in the semi-finals, I plan to insist on a thorough verification of the opponent on drugs. You know, I experienced a lot of problems when there was a struggle with Josh Barnett, and do not want this situation again. I then had a lot of money to lose on advertising and a big problem with television. I want this time for everyone to know and be aware of the facts that they will test it very seriously."

[poopoo333]

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/636934/2eajtzs_medium.jpg

Is it just me, or has AA gotten smaller since his UFC days?

[MMA_scientist]

no he has definitely leaned out. He had a lot less mass when he fought Bigfoot. He is trying to be a straight up boxer these days, so he doesn't need a lot of mass. He came out in a boxing robe and the whole thing.

[poopoo333]

How do you guys seeing Sergei/AA going?

[SPX]

AA fucked up when he grew the beard.

He's a much more handsome fellow with a smooth face. Also, he wins more fights that way.

[MMA_scientist]

How do you guys seeing Sergei/AA going?

Well AA is going to find out if he can box or not. Sergei is a fine boxer himself, and he doesn't suffer the chin issues that AA has. I kind of doubt Sergei can get it down, though I wouldn't be shocked. Sergei can box and wrestle and he has some submissions, but like a lot fo the russian guys his technical grappling is not that great. He got totally worked by Monson on the ground. He knocked out everyone's favorite teen idol Alistair Overeem, you can see the full gamut of his skills in that fight, he shoots in on Overeem and trades hands with him. I think Sergie has all the skills to beat almost any HW, but teh only thing he lacks is the athleticism. Watching video, Arlovski just seems a lot faster to me. I think Arlovski will jab his way to a decision or Sergei will knock him out. On teh ground it is probably a wash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm1nz9753TY

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2zzx3_alistair-overeem-vs-sergei-khariton_sport

All his fights are online so it should be easy. I think it is hard to bet because you really have to just rely on your own eye and who you think is going to win the striking exchanges. It will be won standing IMO.

[edman5555]

"Sergei started his Amateur Boxing Career in 2000. He tried to get into the Russian Olympic Boxing team but got injured in the semi finals during a live boxing TV event. Instead he competed for Tajikistan in 2003 at the Central Asian Games where he won a silver medal.[5] Kharitonov earned a shot at that year’s Olympics, representing former Tajikistan (the former Soviet republics often have ethnic Russians on their teams) but passed on the chance to instead fight in the Pride 2004 Heavyweight Grand Prix."

You would think that would make him a better boxer than Arlovski. I put 2.5u on Sergei at even money. I somewhat regret the decision but what can I do now.

[Ludo]

Both sides have concerns there. Arlovski has shown a tendency to go into "stupid defense" mode when under duress and it has cost him(he moved straight back when Rogers hit him). But his technique and speed are some of the best in the MMA heavyweight division. Sergei hits like a truck, is very durable, but has limited use for kicks and also has a flat footed style that may give him problems in chasing down Arlovski. If I had to bet I'd go with Sergei because he can end this fight at any time, but Arlovski has the technical edge from what I've seen.

[MMA_scientist]

I give an edge to AA, just because of his speed. He has power too, he just hasn't shown it in a while. He used to knock guys out all the time.

[Ludo]

Yeah but Arlovski has entered into an identity crisis of late. He didn't fight like he knew he could win against Bigfoot.

[edman5555]

This one is hard to call. I see what your saying about the speed.

[SPX]

What if AA just comes in and runs this thing all the way to the end and beats Fedor in their rematch?

Wouldn't that be some shit. . .

[poopoo333]

I would be happy.

[Luke]

What if AA just comes in and runs this thing all the way to the end and beats Fedor in their rematch?

Wouldn't that be some shit. . .


I dont even know if he'll make it past his first round match ,lets be honest he hasnt won a fight in 2+ years


For some reason AA just looks weaker to me . I know he's leaner but whats going to stop these bigger guys from manhandling him?

[zY|]

Yeah I'm kinda leaning towards Sergei knocking his black ass out.

[Ludo]

Arlovski has some sick Sambo of his own. I'm sure he won't mind being on the ground. Overall his half of the bracket it weak other than Barnett. But we don't even know if Barnett has stayed sharp since he's been fighting cans and pro wrestlers for the last two years.

[Luke]

Arlovski has some sick Sambo of his own. I'm sure he won't mind being on the ground. Overall his half of the bracket it weak other than Barnett. But we don't even know if Barnett has stayed sharp since he's been fighting cans and pro wrestlers for the last two years.


Well if Barnett is a can from all the years of being a loser he'll lose to Rogers and if AA actually won he'd be fighting a guy way bigger than him who's already knocked him the fuck out

[Ludo]

I would wager that Rogers can't duplicate his performance on Arlovski, not the same way at least. Andrei is finally getting his confidence back and Rogers is still shitting himself at night thinking about the way Overeem put the hurt on him.

[Luke]

I would wager that Rogers can't duplicate his performance on Arlovski, not the same way at least. Andrei is finally getting his confidence back and Rogers is still shitting himself at night thinking about the way Overeem put the hurt on him.



confidence back ? what are you smoking? he hasnt won a fight since 10-4-2008

confidence lol

[poopoo333]

"On the Orthodox Epiphany's Eve, Fedor dives into the Oskol river to clean himself spiritually and gain strength for the whole year to come."


http://cdn0.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/173278/52061.jpg

[Ludo]

confidence back ? what are you smoking? he hasnt won a fight since 10-4-2008

confidence lol



Well he stood toe to toe with a powerful striker in his last fight and didn't go down. Thats what they call a moral victory.

[SPX]

Thats what they call a moral victory.

Nigga needed a KO victory.

[zY|]

Well he stood toe to toe with a powerful striker in his last fight and didn't go down. Thats what they call a moral victory.

LOL yous trolling.

He was beaten 6 ways from Sunday and demoralized.

[SPX]

He was beaten 6 ways from Sunday and demoralized.

Come on, it wasn't like all THAT.

Bigfoot clearly won, but it was still fairly close.

[Ludo]

I never said Arlovski didn't lose that fight and rightfully so. But compared to his last two fights prior to that he had a good showing for a guy who alot of people thought was shot from the neck up.

[zY|]

Come on, it wasn't like all THAT.

Bigfoot clearly won, but it was still fairly close.

It wasn't that close.

He was countered and outboxed all night by a mongoloid. Considering boxing is his thing, DEMORALIZING.

[Ludo]

It wasn't that close.

He was countered and outboxed all night by a mongoloid. Considering boxing is his thing, DEMORALIZING.


Bigfoot isn't Mongolian...

[Luke]

I never said Arlovski didn't lose that fight and rightfully so. But compared to his last two fights prior to that he had a good showing for a guy who alot of people thought was shot from the neck up.


Oh yeah when I havent won a fight in 2 years getting beat less bad would lift my confidence through the f-ing roof . I'd feel like I'm on top of the world

http://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad108/1royal5595/Leo/leo_titanic_king_of_world-tm.jpg

[zY|]

Bigfoot isn't Mongolian...

<3

[Ludo]

Proving to the world you can still take a punch would be something uplifting I would think. Especially for someone who has been Knocked out 6 of his 8 professional losses. Knowing your durability at least affords you a chance to make your skills evident is something a fighter might consider a bit of peace of mind.

[poopoo333]

Has anybody looked at Griggs/Villante? Villante was actually on BE's top 10 prospect watches last week. I think that Griggs may have an inflated line due to his win over Lashley.

[MMA_scientist]

^^ I can't find when the fight is actually going off? Is it going to be on the 1/29 card?

[poopoo333]

It's on the fedor/silva card.

[MMA_scientist]

^^ ah. I haven't gotten that far yet. I have 3 events before that. I am done with UFN 23, but I am still looking at 1/29 SF and UFC 126, I can't even think about undercard lines yet. So much MMA, I am so happy.

[poopoo333]

I'm done with 1/29 and UFC 126. I want to bet Jacare but for some reason I am reluctant on that one. Waiting for the Mendes line for 126..and possibly Ruediger over Taylor.

[MMA_scientist]

What are you looking at for SF 1/29?

I like Diaz, but haven't looked at it too much. I like Jacare, but not his line. I think Roger will get it done, but value will be with Prangley +odds (though I don't bet against Roger out of respect). Can't find anything on Carson, but will still take him at the right odds.

[poopoo333]

I already bet Diaz.

I think Jacare is going to win, but I am not convinced he won't get caught. He got tired in the Villasenor fight, and I think Lawler could capitalize on that if it does happen. But, Lawler will probably real tentative like he was with Babalu, so I don't think Lawler will go in throwing those big hooks which minimizes the chance Jacare gets KOd early.

I think Roger will probably win too..but I don't know. I think Prangley will be tentative because he is going to avoid wanting to be wrapped up, and Roger will actually keep him at bay on the feet like he did against Randleman and eventually drag him down. I guess it depends on the line for me.

I didn't even look at the Walker/Carson fight because I don't care.

[edman5555]

Lawler has heavy hands and the ability to keep it standing for a reasonable amount of time. That could equal a ko for him. Obv Jacare is more likely to win though as his standup is pretty decent, his wrestling is very good, and his bjj is other worldly. Probably a no bet for me, unless Jacare comes down or there is a line for Jacare sub that is good. I wouldn't be suprised to see that happen, I don't think Lawler is very good on the ground. Most of his losses have been by sub. In the Sobral fight he was scared to engage too. Sobrals standup isn't all that dangerous. He must have been afraid he would end up on the ground with him if he got too close because his grappling isn't very good. Is this a 5 rounder? If it is Jacare by sub will prob be worth a bet if the odds don't suck, which they probably will.

[poopoo333]

Diaz: I haven't thought too much about Paul Daley (http://www.sbnation.com/mma/fighter/122574/paul-daley), to be honest.
Jacare: The plan is to bring the jiu-jitsu to the table at the right time.
Diaz: I don't want to fight unless I'm going to get paid a lot of money.
Diaz: If someone halfway important is fighting, I'm watching it. I'm familiar with most guys, including Cyborg.
Jacare: I've fought a lot of tough guys, and I'd put Robbie Lawler (http://www.sbnation.com/mma/fighter/122558/robbie-lawler) right there in the mix.
Jacare: My takedowns aren't wrestling takedowns. I call them "Jacare takedowns." I put my own twist on them.
Jacare: My fight with Lawler will look different than Lindland's because both of them are left-handed.
Diaz: I think Cyborg is the best opponent right now. I want to fight Georges St. Pierre (http://www.sbnation.com/mma/fighter/122591/georges-st-pierre). I think Shields is going to take him out though.
Diaz: I'd be happy to move up. I just want to get paid for it.
Diaz: I never said I wouldn't fight Miller because of weight. If I'm going to throw my whole year off, I want to get paid in full.
Diaz: Tell Miller to get his ass in shape and make 170 or 175 pounds. Or someone can "pay me a couple fucking million dollars" to move up.
Diaz: I'm over here driving a fucking Honda because my shit's breaking down. Fuck all you, mother fuckers.
Diaz: Josh Koscheck (http://www.sbnation.com/mma/fighter/122582/josh-koscheck) took an ass whooping in a fight I cornered. The UFC gave him easy fights. I didn't get easy fights in the UFC.
Diaz: We got this guy who doesn't even fight. He drinks in a bar. And we took him to fight Josh Koscheck.
Diaz: So when you tell me these guys are the best fighters in the world, it's a fucking joke.
Diaz: People think GSP is better than me, it's bullshit. He just fought Josh Koscheck. I just told you about him.
Diaz: Right now, what do you want? You got them ranked above me.

[SPX]

Didn't Diaz make like $100,000 for his last fight? He needs to shut the fuck up about money.

[poopoo333]

MMAJunkie (http://mmajunkie.com/news/20974/strikeforce-diaz-vs-noons-2-salaries-diaz-and-thomson-top-fighter-payroll.mma) reports that Strikeforce: Diaz vs Noons II had a disclosed fighter payroll of $211,500.
Nick Diaz: $50,000

[Luke]

Didn't Diaz make like $100,000 for his last fight? He needs to shut the fuck up about money.



100k isnt shit when you headline a card

nevermind he got 50k for his last fight thats less than shit

[SPX]

Okay, well I guess this is what I was thinking of:

http://mmajunkie.com/news/17790/strikeforce-miami-fighter-salaries-nick-diaz-and-robbie-lawler-each-earn-100000.mma

Diaz earned $100,000 (which did not include a win bonus) to beat Zaromskis.

Kind of weird that he actually went BACKWARDS in pay in his next fight.

[SPX]

100k isnt shit when you headline a card

I agree, but this is MMA. That's still far more than most fighters are making. He also needs to remember that he's in SF, not the UFC.

[poopoo333]

http://i44.tinypic.com/2rf8rrm.jpg

http://www.themmanews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Nick-Diaz_Responds-to-Miller.gif

[Mr. IWS]

Diaz: I'm over here driving a fucking Honda because my shit's breaking down. Fuck all you, mother fuckers.


Epic

[MMA_scientist]

I used to hate Diaz, but now I love him. He is hilarious. I mean, he is obviously at least mildly mentally retarded, and you can't take anything he says even close to seriously, but he is definitely the best interview in MMA.

He is making $100k per fight, which is a shit ton for a WW. Fitch only got $54 to show and $54 to win. He is clearly the #2 ww in the world at this point. Diaz's big tough run of fights included Joe Riggs, Diego (who lost to Kos incidentally). He did get some gimme's too, Koji Oishi...

Anyway, he's awesome and delusional. I like how he knows he is craz so sometimes he just doesn't say anything or is really introverted trying to keep the crazy inside. War Diaz. I don't like Nate though, he is just a cheap knock off.

[Luke]

He also needs to remember that he's in SF, not the UFC.


Strikeforce pays lesser known fighters more than the UFC does so .......

[SPX]

Strikeforce pays lesser known fighters more than the UFC does so .......

No


Micahel Byrnes: $2,000 ($1,000 win bonus)
def. David Zitnik: $1,500

Joe Ray: $1,500 ($500 win bonus)
def. John Clarke: $1,000

David Gomez: $2,000 ($1,000 win bonus)
def. Craig Oxley: $1,500

Pablo Alfonso: $3,000 ($1,500 win bonus)
def. Marcos DaMatta: $2,500

Hayder Hassan: $2,000 ($1,000 win bonus)
def. Ryan Keenan: $2,000

John Kelly: $2,000 ($1,000 win bonus)
def. Sabah Homasi: $1,000

[Luke]

I agree, but this is MMA.


The only reason MMA fighters get paid less is because they let the promoters get away with it ,its MMA figters own faults they dont get paid shit. If they all joined together they could be making alot more. The money is there it just all goes to promoters and owners


In boxing a promoter pays one fighter 20 million ,the other fighter 10 million and keeps 10 million for himself. In the UFC Dana pays the whole payroll of 24 fighters 2 million combined and keeps the other 30 million for him and Fertittia brothers

[SPX]

^^^ Maybe so. But UFC is run differently from boxing promotions.

[Luke]

No

Are you retarded? Which one of those fighters have you ever heard of before? Which one of those guys you listed have fought in the UFC?

You think Diaz would make 100k a fight in the UFC? You think Cung Le would be making hundreds of thousands a fight in the UFC? Fuck the UFC pays people fighting FOR THE TITLE 40k

I didnt mean the bar fighter from down the street when I said lesser known fighters ,I meant fighters like Diaz,Daley,Hendo,Cung Le,Noons etc. People that arent well known.

[Luke]

^^^ Maybe so. But UFC is run differently from boxing promotions.


How so ? Besides they keep more of the profits for themselves?

[MMA_scientist]

Yeah, a couple of fighters with actual pull need to put a stop to it... but the problem is that the only way to get pull and credibility is to be UFC champ. Then if you try to use that influence you will be on the sideline during the prime of your career for at least a year, probably more. So it is going to require some guys to be sacrifice for the good of the community. I would be fine if the UFC folded like Dana always threatens. There will be fights and maybe we could see some fights that we actually want to see. The problem is that the only fighters that are universally accepted as the kings of thier division are Aldo, GSP and Silva. And the UFC would probably be fine even without all 3 of them.

[SPX]

Are you retarded?

LOL


You think Diaz would make 100k a fight in the UFC? You think Cung Le would be making hundreds of thousands a fight in the UFC? Fuck the UFC pays people fighting FOR THE TITLE 40k


These guys are THE top stars of Strikeforce. So would Diaz be making as much in the UFC? No. But then again he wouldn't be the fucking champ either.

If you want to make an honest comparison, then ask why Diaz, Cung Le, Melendez, Noons, etc aren't making as much as the UFC's top stars.

Diaz might be making more than he would in the UFC. Dan Henderson might be making more than he would in the UFC. But their standings in their respective divisions are much higher in SF than they would be in the UFC as well.

[SPX]

How so ? Besides they keep more of the profits for themselves?

I dunno. You know more about it than me, but I know it's different. When Tyson's running around with like 4 heavyweight belts you know the shit ain't the same.

[MMA_scientist]

LOL



These guys are THE top stars of Strikeforce. So would Diaz be making as much in the UFC? No. But then again he wouldn't be the fucking champ either.

If you want to make an honest comparison, then ask why Diaz, Cung Le, Melendez, Noons, etc aren't making as much as the UFC's top stars.

Diaz might be making more than he would in the UFC. Dan Henderson might be making more than he would in the UFC. But their standings in their respective divisions are much higher in SF than they would be in the UFC as well.


Dan was the #1 contender in the UFC. He didn't lose til he went to SF. I think Hendo is an exception though, because he is about ready to retire, he has fought all over the world and is aleady well off. So he can say fuck off the UFC and he knows he has options.

Diaz made pretty good money in 2010, if he is broke, then that is because he is a clown. He probably made at least $200k. He doesn't have special nutritionists or a special camp that he pays. He trains in a jj gym and gets cornered by his brother. He has sponsors. If he is driving a busted down Honda it is because he is spending too much on weed. He should be living pretty well. Even if he paid out more than I think, he made at least $100k, which is a lot, and you can live pretty well on 100k per year.

[Luke]

LOL



These guys are THE top stars of Strikeforce. So would Diaz be making as much in the UFC? No. But then again he wouldn't be the fucking champ either.

If you want to make an honest comparison, then ask why Diaz, Cung Le, Melendez, Noons, etc aren't making as much as the UFC's top stars.

Diaz might be making more than he would in the UFC. Dan Henderson might be making more than he would in the UFC. But their standings in their respective divisions are much higher in SF than they would be in the UFC as well.

You cant compare the SF champ to the UFC champ thats like comparing to President of the United States to the Student body President ,its not the same

UFC is the biggest org. in the world I think they should be paying the most money to fighters, when fighters go to strikeforce and make more than they did in the UFC I consider that SF paying more. When a fighter in SF makes more money in SF than he could if he was fighting in the UFC I consider SF pays better .

In boxing if you go from fighting PPV main events or on HBO to fighting on FSN or ESPN I dont care who you are you arent going to get paid more on ESPN or FSN than you did on PPV or HBO events

[edman5555]

Don't forget to calculate sponsorships. If he really wanted to be ambitious he could go out on the road and do seminars on MMA. I am sure people would pay to go spar with Nick Diaz.

[Luke]

I dunno. You know more about it than me, but I know it's different. When Tyson's running around with like 4 heavyweight belts you know the shit ain't the same.

Its not much different . You just have to think of the WBC,WBA and IBF titles as the UFC,SF and K-1 titles basically . If Tyson had all 3 belts it would be like being the SF,UFC and K-1 champ all at the sametime

[Mr. IWS]

Its not much different . You just have to think of the WBC,WBA and IBF titles as the UFC,SF and K-1 titles basically . If Tyson had all 3 belts it would be like being the SF,UFC and K-1 champ all at the sametime

inb4overreemwinsthatlastbeltviahorsemeatyoubitchas snigga

[SPX]

Its not much different . You just have to think of the WBC,WBA and IBF titles as the UFC,SF and K-1 titles basically . If Tyson had all 3 belts it would be like being the SF,UFC and K-1 champ all at the sametime

Yeah, but it's not like you ever hear about "WBC 36: Pacquaio vs Mosely." Nor does it seem like any fighters ever belong to a single promotion and fight only for that promotion.

It seems to be that boxing promoters put on individual events and then go find fighters to fight at these events. The UFC puts on a branded series and has a stable of fighters that fight only for them.

My guess is that the UFC's overhead is a lot greater than the WBC's or whoever. The last time an MMA promotion tried to pay millions of dollars they went under after like 3 events. The UFC on the other hand built themselves up slowly and pay HAS increased over time. The top guys in the UFC 7 or 8 years ago weren't making anywhere near the money that GSP or Liddell or Couture does today, especially when you bring the PPV revenue sharing into the conversation.

My thing is that I don't claim to know what kind of expenses the UFC has to deal with on the backend. Could they pay more? I suspect they could. But could they pay like boxing? I don't think they could and still survive.

[edman5555]

what do you think guys like gsp, lidell, lesnar, etc make in ppv bonus's?

[Luke]

My thing is that I don't claim to know what kind of expenses the UFC has to deal with on the backend. Could they pay more? I suspect they could. But could they pay like boxing? I don't think they could and still survive.


Why would the UFC be paying anymore expenses than a boxing event does? They both pay site fees,doctors ,announcers etc .


If the UFC has a $3 million gate and sells 1 million PPV's at 55 a piece thats 58 million dollars

If boxing has a $3 million gate and sell 1 million PPV's at 55 a piece thats also 58 million dollars.

The difference is boxings payouts to the fighters might be 30-40 million for the event and the UFC might be 2.5 million

If both promotions are making the same amount for an event why cant they pay the same? Unless I'm missing a mountain they can the UFC just chooses not to

[Luke]

what do you think guys like gsp, lidell, lesnar, etc make in ppv bonus's?


no idea I havent really ever heard what % of PPV sales any fighters have got

[zY|]

Keep in mind the UFC is a corporation with a massive staff of people on the payroll. It's not just Dana White and Joe Silva. They handle every aspect of their product including production.

I agree that the fighters should get paid more, but the UFC model is entirely different than the boxing model. A lot of the money is going into expanding the business in every way imaginable and pushing for regulation all over the globe.

[SPX]

^^^ That's pretty much what I'm getting at. The UFC has a ton of expenses, many of which aren't even directly related to putting on an event.

[Luke]

^^^ That's pretty much what I'm getting at. The UFC has a ton of expenses, many of which aren't even directly related to putting on an event.


you are one hell of a UFC nuthugger ,Dana would be proud

[SPX]

you are one hell of a UFC nuthugger ,Dana would be proud

Why don't you just admit when you're wrong?

[Luke]

Why don't you just admit when you're wrong?


Wrong? You must be dumb as a rock or on Dana's cock at the moment

I said UFC fighters dont get paid enough ,you have made every excuse in the book why they cant pay fighter more like you're on their payroll. Not once have you showed a single fact or figure showing all these "extra expenses" you are talking about and why they cant pay more
Does the UFC spend more on expanding ? Yes but they also make money way more money off sponsors than boxing does, they make a ton off TUF,and they make a ton selling gear so give me more excuses why they cant pay fighters decent money.

But hey when your favorite fighter Pulver is a vegetable drooling on himself because he got KTFO too many times because he needs money you keep telling yourself the UFC didnt have anymore money to hand out

Facts are Dana White owns 10% of the UFC and is worth 150 million .They've owned the UFC for 9 years. Bob Arum has promoted boxing for 40 years and has a net worth of 250 million so whos greasing their pockets more?

The UFC is worth 1.5+ billion dollars dont tell me they cant pay their fighters boxing salaries.

But if you want to be naive fine with me

[SPX]

I'm just going to say that I never said fighters shouldn't get paid more or that the UFC can't pay them more. In fact, I said the exact opposite.

[zY|]

What do undercard fighters in boxing make?

[Luke]

What do undercard fighters in boxing make?


Its all according to who they are and how far down the card they are . The first fighters on a card around 10k ,the guys right before the main event generally a couple hundred thousand unless they are a known fighter then it will obv me more. I mean if Mosley is fighting some can on the undercard of Manny-Marg he's probably making 500-750k to fight but most of them its probably only a few hundred thousand

[Luke]

I'm just going to say that I never said fighters shouldn't get paid more or that the UFC can't pay them more. In fact, I said the exact opposite.


Well that was my whole arguement.If you are agreeing with me what am I suppose to be admitting I'm wrong about?

[SPX]

Well that was my whole arguement.If you are agreeing with me what am I suppose to be admitting I'm wrong about?

My whole point was that the UFC's operating expenses are greater than a boxing org like the WBC's. Then again, I'm no expert. What do I know. But that seems obvious to me on the surface.

But yes, I agree that fighters should be paid more. I've said that in the past. I've even said that it's an insult that even the lowliest undercard fighter is making $3K to fight for the greatest MMA org in the world, a position that I've actually been argued with in the past for holding.

Bottom line is that I don't know exactly what the UFC is making or how much is costs to run their business. I do know that the fighters today are making a lot more than they were making 10 years ago. I've heard that a few (like Couture), after PPV shares, have cleared a million dollars.

As for me being a UFC nuthugger, well, I do like the UFC. I think they put on the best show of all the orgs, both in terms of talent and production. I like both Rogan and Goldberg. It gives me a good feeling inside when they commentate as a team, like hanging out with old friends. Dana White is crass and can he extremely selfish, but I also think he's good for the organization and good for the sport. And I think the UFC is good for the sport and that it wouldn't be where it is today without White's and the Fertitta's business sense.

With all that said, I obviously don't like it that they arbitrarily ban sponsors, or arbitrarily revoke legitimately publications' press credentials, or that anyone makes $3K to fight on one of their cards.

I also like Strikeforce and Bellator.

And while I'm not the biggest JMMA fan and always lose my bets when I bet on those orgs, I like DREAM and WVR as well and think that it's a good change of pace when I do watch it.

[Luke]

Well I like the UFC also and I watch just about every show they put on but that doesnt mean I cant bitch about what they do if I dont agree with it .The UFC has went from being worth 2 million in 2001 to 1.5 billion in 2011 I think its time to spread the wealth a little more.

It not like I only dislike Dana, I hate Arum ,Don King and Goldenboy promotions and I'd rant about them too but no one wants to hear about boxing.

[SPX]

Well I like the UFC also and I watch just about every show they put on but that doesnt mean I cant bitch about what they do if I dont agree with it.

Agreed. You're entitled to your opinion. And the UFC does plenty of shit worth bitching about.

::handshake::

[Luke]

::hijack::





::baghead::

[Luke]

Agreed. You're entitled to your opinion. And the UFC does plenty of shit worth bitching about.

::handshake::


::handshake::

[MMA_scientist]

But yes, I agree that fighters should be paid more. I've said that in the past. I've even said that it's an insult that even the lowliest undercard fighter is making $3K to fight for the greatest MMA org in the world, a position that I've actually been argued with in the past for holding.

That was probably me arguing with you. I would like to see the guys make more, but I am also a believer in free market. There are too many fighters at that entry level and not enough orgs willing to pay. I don't have problem with the $3k guys that are just coming over from fighting in their backyard or wherever, I don't like it when I see a quality veteran with some name recognition getting paid the same a TUF fighter. I think the mid to top guys should make more, but if they are willing to do it... I guess that is their issue.

[SPX]

I can't remember who it was, but I remember the counter-argument basically went like: Does that fighter's name being on the card bring in $3,000 extra dollars for the promoter?

Which I think is something of a fallacious argument.

[cheickkongo24]

here is fedor the best fighter in the world
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOaGHjIWOXg

[Luke]

^^^^^^^^^^^If he walks out to that song I'm never watching Strikeforce again

[edman5555]

I currently have 2.5u on Sergei at even money. I am thinking about arbing out on this though. I can get Arlovski at even now, maybe even +105 which would be cool. He has a lot of good wins but I am not confident. How do you guys think they stack up?

[poopoo333]

Sergei Kharitonov vs Andrei Arlovski - Strikeforce propositionsSat 2/12
3203 Kharitonov/Arlovski goes 3 rnd distance
+240 10:00PM
3204 Fight won't go 3 round distance -320 Sat 2/12
3205 Kharitonov wins inside distance
+130 10:00PM
3206 Not Kharitonov inside distance -170 Sat 2/12
3207 Kharitonov wins by 3 round decision
+514 10:00PM
3208 Not Kharitonov by 3 round decision -940 Sat 2/12
3209 Arlovski wins inside distance
+168 10:00PM
3210 Not Arlovski inside distance -225 Sat 2/12
3211 Arlovski wins by 3 round decision
+466 10:00PM
3212 Not Arlovski by 3 round decision -797 Sat 2/12
3213 Kharitonov/Arlovski draw
+9000 10:00PM
3214 Fight not a draw -25000 Sat 2/12
3215 S.Kharitonov wins in round 1
+320 10:00PM
3216 Any other result -460 Sat 2/12
3217 S.Kharitonov wins in round 2
+495 10:00PM
3218 Any other result -885 Sat 2/12
3219 S.Kharitonov wins in round 3
+875 10:00PM
3220 Any other result -1790 Sat 2/12
3221 A.Arlovski wins in round 1
+420 10:00PM
3222 Any other result -650 Sat 2/12
3223 A.Arlovski wins in round 2
+545 10:00PM
3224 Any other result -1035 Sat 2/12
3225 A.Arlovski wins in round 3
+920 10:00PM
3226 Any other result -1870 Sat 2/12
3235 Kharitonov/Arlovski starts round 3
+130 10:00PM
3236 Fight won't start round 3 -170 Sat 2/12
3237 Kharitonov/Arlovski starts round 2
-197 10:00PM
3238 Fight won't start round 2 +156

[poopoo333]

Sat 2/12
3103 Silva/Emelianenko goes 3 round distance
+190 10:30PM
3104 Fight won't go 3 round distance -270 Sat 2/12
3105 Silva wins inside distance
+454 10:30PM
3106 Not Silva inside distance -760 Sat 2/12
3107 Silva wins by 3 round decision
+730 10:30PM
3108 Not Silva by 3 round decision -1550 Sat 2/12
3109 Emelianenko wins inside distance
-145 10:30PM
3110 Not Emelianenko inside distance +105 Sat 2/12
3111 Emelianenko wins by 3 round decision
+303 10:30PM
3112 Not Emelianenko by 3 round decision -423 Sat 2/12
3113 Silva/Emelianenko draw
+8500 10:30PM
3114 Fight not a draw -23000 Sat 2/12
3115 A.Silva wins in round 1
+890 10:30PM
3116 Any other result -1825 Sat 2/12
3117 A.Silva wins in round 2
+1265 10:30PM
3118 Any other result -2835 Sat 2/12
3119 A.Silva wins in round 3
+1850 10:30PM
3120 Any other result -5550 Sat 2/12
3121 F.Emelianenko wins in round 1
+220 10:30PM
3122 Any other result -300 Sat 2/12
3123 F.Emelianenko wins in round 2
+330 10:30PM
3124 Any other result -490 Sat 2/12
3125 F.Emelianenko wins in round 3
+720 10:30PM
3126 Any other result -1530 Sat 2/12
3135 Silva/Emelianenko starts round 3
+123 10:30PM
3136 Fight won't start round 3 -163 Sat 2/12
3137 Silva/Emelianenko starts round 2
-214 10:30PM
3138 Fight won't start round 2 +164

[edman5555]

I really have no idea what will happen with that one. I hope Fedor knocks him out in round 1.

[poopoo333]

I was actually thinking about "fight won't start round 2" @+164.

[poopoo333]

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/647356/167344_500533028228_61345743228_6277789_4235033_n_ medium.jpg

[poopoo333]

Report: Strikeforce Heavyweight Grand Prix to Invade Japan This April (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/2/4/1974128/report-strikeforce-heavyweight-grand-prix-to-invade-japan-this-april)

[trotterz]

I was actually thinking about "fight won't start round 2" @+164.

If the fight ends in round 1, it's 100% that fedor wins. There is no way that big foot could win in round 1. So if you want to do that bet, maybe you should try fedor in round 1, the odds should be even better.

[Mr. IWS]

Report: Strikeforce Heavyweight Grand Prix to Invade Japan This April (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/2/4/1974128/report-strikeforce-heavyweight-grand-prix-to-invade-japan-this-april)

LOL. Only way to get Barnett in.

[poopoo333]

http://efedor.ru/img/photo/big/120.jpg

http://efedor.ru/img/photo/big/109.jpg

http://efedor.ru/img/photo/big/92.jpg





























http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs043.snc6/167344_500533028228_61345743228_6277789_4235033_n. jpg

[edman5555]

Anyone else think Giant Silva can beat Fedor? I think it's very close, I may place a value bet on Silva.

[Luke]

Anyone else think Giant Silva can beat Fedor? I think it's very close, I may place a value bet on Silva.


no and hell no.

I will probably bet Fedor and I think he'll win in rd 1. How can you take Silva after watching him almost get KO'd by Kyle?

[zY|]

Anyone else think Giant Silva can beat Fedor? I think it's very close, I may place a value bet on Silva.

This guy?

http://www.pridefc.com/pride2005/images/fighter/291_l.jpg

[edman5555]

heh whoops you know what i mean

[edman5555]

Well a few things. One he has power in his hands. Two he has a black belt in bjj and judo. Three he is much larger than Fedor. I probably won't bother betting it but he has ways to win. I am rooting for Fedor to win in decisive fashion though. I want him and Overeem to win so they fight each other.

[poopoo333]

imo Fedor has a huge speed advantage. After round 1 (if this is the case), I think Fedor is going to light him up. Silva has stated he has found the blue print to beat Fedor from the Werdum fight. I am guessing that means he is going to try and get this to the mat, or just fall to his back and hope for a good chance at a triangle lolz

[edman5555]

Yeah Fedor should def have the speed advantage but Silva is soo big I would think he can muscle a takedown and/or push him up against the cage wall. He also has a lot of punching power, probably a reach advantage as well. I'm not saying he is better than Fedor, he is just really big and a competent fighter in all areas.

[edman5555]

Silva should be one of the more well rounded fighters Fedor has fought. Def one of the most well rounded LARGER fighters he has fought. This isn't hong man choi,

[edman5555]

alright im hitting the couch. Goodnight.

[poopoo333]

I see exactly what you are saying. I will probably stay away.

[poopoo333]

Have you looked at any of the other fights on the card? The reserve bouts?

[edman5555]

I've glanced at this and the challengers card.

[edman5555]

Chad Griggs opponent( Gianpiero Villante ) was a collegiate football player and wrestler at Hofstra. Griggs just beat a wrestler though in Bobby Lashley but supposedly there was something up with Lashley at the time.

[edman5555]

Bobby claims he had mono and was dehyrdated. He gassed in the second round and got his ass kicked.

[poopoo333]

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/1/17/1938338/world-mma-light-heavyweight-scouting-report-2-gian-villante

[Mr. IWS]

Anyone else think Giant Silva can beat Fedor? I think it's very close, I may place a value bet on Silva.

I swear, the more I look at this fight, (especially how well Kyle did standing against Silva), this shit has Zulu written all over it.

[edman5555]

I swear, the more I look at this fight, (especially how well Kyle did standing against Silva), this shit has Zulu written all over it.

Heh I hope so.

[poopoo333]

Griggs is a 32 year old guy who was one of those guys that beat complete cans in those hillbilly type fights for the most part (kinda like McCorkle) and was brought into Strikforce to lose to Lashley. We all saw how that went, and I think this is going to cause some hype around him. Besides Lashely, Griggs best win was against John Marsh in the IFL who is 2-7 in his last 9. Even though he beat Lashley...it's not like he dominated that fight. Lashley just realized in that fight he hated getting hit in the head.

Villante is one of those beast athletic up and coming prospects (kinda like OSP) that has been demolishing everybody he has fought (cans as well, but some were some "upper level cans"). He has a background in football and wrestling, and has a BJJ blue belt. They both have lots of 1st round wins, but Villante seems to be one of those guys that is going to just keep getting better and better. It's hard to find video on this guy because the organization makes you buy them and shows like minute previews of his fights on youtube.

These guys are both small HWs, 225ish. Villante is usually a LHW so I am sure after this fight he will be fighting at LHW.

[edman5555]

Yeah Villante seems like an actual athlete. I'll do some reading on Griggs, I have a feeling he will open as a healthy favorite. These guys both have a lot of tko/ko wins so if I bet Villante it will only be for 1 or 2u probably. If he is a good enough dog though that should be good enough for a decent haul.

[poopoo333]

I think it's gonna be like -150 Villante/+120 Griggs

[edman5555]

I think it's gonna be like -150 Villante/+120 Griggs

I don't know about that. Griggs just beat Bobby Lashley and BL is famous. Even if Griggs opens as a dog he will probably get bet quite a bit.

[poopoo333]

Ok so the other fights on the card:

Ray Sefo vs Valentijn Overeem

Shane Del Rosario vs Lavar Johnson


Anybody looked at these yet?


The more I look/think about Fedor/Silva, I want to bet Fedor.

[SPX]

The more I look/think about Fedor/Silva, I want to bet Fedor.

My problem with betting Fedor in this fight--especially at his line right now--is that not only is Fedor a small HW, but Silva is fucking huge. On top of being huge, he's also skilled.

Everyone seems to be talking about the fact that he got cracked by Kyle, but what about the fact that he got cracked and . . . was still in the fight? Nigga's obviously got a monster chin. If anything, at +325 I think Silva's the play.

[poopoo333]

Just looked at Ray Sefo vs Valentijn Overeem

Ray Sefo is old..40 and he has been fighting since before 1990, 40 is old alone, but with that many years of fighting the guy is real old in "fight years" .Sefo is 2-0 in MMA...probably should be 1-1. He beat Min Soo Kim (3-7) in 2005. When he fought Kevin Jordan (40 yr old, 11-9) he got dominated in round 1. He was taken down and was a fish out of water on his back. In round 2, Jordan injured his knee on a takedown attempt and Sefo got the win by TKO (injury). Sefo is a K1 kickboxer so he will probably have the striking edge. But don't let the K1 label fool you, he is no Semmy Schilt, Sefo pulled a Jens Pulver and went on a 6 fight losing streak in K1 from 2007-2008. Also I read on Sherdog that the Overeems have a problem with Sefo and Ubereem will be in his brother's corner..not sure if this is a motivating factor or not in this fight

Valentijn Overeem isn't exactly great either. He is 28-25 and also pulled a Jens Pulver in 2002-2003 and dropped 6 straight. Overeem has been subbed 15 times, but I don't think we have to worry about Sefo subbing Overeem (unless sub to strikes, Overeem has subbed to strikes twice, and forfeited once). But Overeem has 16 sub wins, and he has subbed a couple of good guys (Couture and Babalu).

I think Overeem is going to win this based on grappling. He will have the edge on the mat, and I think he will probably get the sub. But Overeem is a very inconsistent fighter, just look at his record. Both of these guys are irrelevant for sure. I'll take Overeem if the line is real low, like -125 or better...and I'm not even sure about that.


Any input?

[edman5555]

According to wiki Overeem is training at Golden Glory. If that's true he should be in a good position to deal with a kickboxer like Sefo. Valentin is pretty inconsistent though, he has a lot of losses. I wouldn't take him unless he has a good line. He should hold the advantage in this fight though. He can take it to the ground and sub him, if he chooses to do that.

[Thewisemann]

Silva by dec .25u to win 1.63u

[Johnny Unreliable]

My problem with betting Fedor in this fight--especially at his line right now--is that not only is Fedor a small HW, but Silva is fucking huge. On top of being huge, he's also skilled.

Everyone seems to be talking about the fact that he got cracked by Kyle, but what about the fact that he got cracked and . . . was still in the fight? Nigga's obviously got a monster chin. If anything, at +325 I think Silva's the play.

Couldn't agree more. Fedor has a tendency to get put in bad positions with bigger fighters. From Hunt holding him down for half a round to Brett Rogers landing some decent ground and pound after pinning him against the fence.

If Bigfoot can get a takedown and get on top fedor could be in trouble. Given the odds the only decent play is a value bet on Silva imho

[MMA_scientist]

My problem with betting Fedor in this fight--especially at his line right now--is that not only is Fedor a small HW, but Silva is fucking huge. On top of being huge, he's also skilled.

Everyone seems to be talking about the fact that he got cracked by Kyle, but what about the fact that he got cracked and . . . was still in the fight? Nigga's obviously got a monster chin. If anything, at +325 I think Silva's the play.

Has your opinioon of Fedor changed since the Werdum fight? Werdum beat Bigfoot not too long ago... but no one was betting Werdum even though he was +500 at one point...

Werdum was able to hit takedowns and stuff Bigfoot repeatedly in that fight. I will say that Bigfoot was getting the better of him in the striking. Bigfoot also gassed out after the first round. If he has to grapple, he will gas.

That said, it is Bigfoot or nothing for me. I have always thought Fedor's grappling was overrated.

[SPX]

^^^ Well, if nothing else, that allure of this-man-cannot-be-beat! is no longer there, admittedly. But I would actually favor Bigfoot over Werdum to beat Fedor, both now and before the loss to Werdum.

Werdum can't strike that well and I also don't regard him as a power guy. I can just see Bigfoot finding his way on top of Fedor just like he got on top of Kyle and going all HULK SMASH on his ass and somehow either getting a TKO or an all out knockout. Fedor may very well end up outgrappling Bigfoot if he does end up on the ground, but the nigga's just so little. Werdum wasn't that much smaller than Silva, so the situations are that's comparable.

[MMA_scientist]

^ I guess I can see that, as that is how I actually thought Werdum was going to beat Fedor, via top control. But Bigfoot does not have great takedowns. I think Fedor is going to KO him.

[SPX]

I actually have a unit on Fedor to win the whole tournament, so I obviously think he will probably win. But I'm not 100% confident and I'm for damn sure not betting him at his current line.

[MMA_scientist]

Even money, I would pick Fedor to win the tourney. But it really just depends on how the matchups play out. I am really hoping someone gets hurt so Cormier can find his way into the tourney.