UFC on Versus 5

[poopoo333]

UFC on Versus 5 adds T.J. O'Brien vs. Cole Miller, "Bang" Ludwig vs. Amir Sadollah (http://mmajunkie.com/news/23390/ufc-on-versus-5-adds-t-j-obrien-vs-cole-miller-bang-ludwig-vs-amir-sadollah.mma)

[Ludo]

Terrible.

[zY|]

Main and Co-main, right?

[Luke]

Main and Co-main, right?


correct ::handshake::

[poopoo333]

Stephan Bonnar vs. Karlos Vemola targeted for UFC on Versus 5 (http://mmajunkie.com/news/23546/stephan-bonnar-vs-karlos-vemola-targeted-for-ufc-on-versus-5.mma)

[High5]

Jim Miller vs. Ben Henderson

Now that's a scrap!

[Ludo]

Jim Miller vs. Ben Henderson

Now that's a scrap!

Big step up for Benson.

[poopoo333]

war BENDO

[SPX]

Big step up for Benson.

Some people felt like Bocek beat Miller, so I guess it depends on how you look at it.

I bet Bendo comes in as a dog and I'll probably take him.

[Vandelay]

Not sure who takes that one. Miller should be better standing and on the ground, but henderson is a big motherfucker who should be able to dictate where fight goes. I'll be betting that this one goes the distance or at least not bendo inside distance

[poopoo333]

I wonder if this is the main event?

[SPX]

Not sure who takes that one. Miller should be better standing and on the ground, but henderson is a big motherfucker who should be able to dictate where fight goes. I'll be betting that this one goes the distance or at least not bendo inside distance

I think Bendo actually has very good stand-up and is also great on the ground. These WEC guys are going to keep getting underestimated because they're just that--WEC guys--but in the WEC/UFC competition the WEC guys are actually doing pretty well.

The fact that Bendo actually hung in there with Pettis all the way to the end actually speaks volumes to me about his skills and abilities.

Fuck it. I'm taking Bendo for the upset here. Bring on his + odds. I will take them.

[poopoo333]

Miller -175/ Hendo +155 is my guess

[Luke]

The fact that Bendo actually hung in there with Pettis all the way to the end actually speaks volumes to me about his skills and abilities.

.


"hung in there" is an understatement imo ,some sites/people had Henderson winning the fight .

[Luke]

I say -115 /-115

[SPX]

"hung in there" is an understatement imo ,some sites/people had Henderson winning the fight .

I had it two rounds a piece, with the last round being even before the super-kick.

The official scores were 48-47, 48-47, 49-46.

[High5]

"hung in there" is an understatement imo ,some sites/people had Henderson winning the fight .

I had the fight 2 rounds each with the 5th up for grabs when Pettis pulled off that Matrix kick.

[SPX]

I say -115 /-115

A lot of people have been criticizing the UFC for not giving Miller his title shot so I really do think Bendo will come in as a dog. The bigger the better in my opinion.

[SPX]

I had the fight 2 rounds each with the 5th up for grabs when Pettis pulled off that Matrix kick.

Stop copying me.

[High5]

I say -115 /-115

At those odds, I'll be on Miller.

[Vandelay]

I wouldnt say bendos stand up is good. He got outclassed horribly against varner. Hes got good kicks, below average hands, good power, and a good chin. It's his threat of a takedown that makes his standup effective.

[High5]

Stop copying me.

Haha...

[poopoo333]

I think Pettis/Henderson was one of the most epic fights I have ever seen.

[SPX]

I wouldnt say bendos stand up is good. He got outclassed horribly against varner.

"Outclassed horribly"? C'mon. That's hyperbole at its finest. Yes, he was losing in the stand-up department. But Varner's stand-up is actually pretty good. His grappling game just isn't all that.

So what do you think of Bocek's stand-up skills? You must think they're like old-school Maia level.

[SPX]

I think Pettis/Henderson was one of the most epic fights I have ever seen.

It was possibly one of the ten greatest fights in the history of MMA.

[Vandelay]

I remember thinking that Bendo had shields level standup. Eventually he just gave up punching altogether and started desperately shooting takedowns. Varner is a stupid motherfucker sometimes. Bocek's standup is pretty bad too.

[poopoo333]

I loved the fight. Last fight ever in the WEC, for the championship, tied going into round 5, close up until the last minute THEN BOOM THE PETTIS KICK!

I was also excited as fuck because I had money on Pettis so it made it even better.

[SPX]

I remember thinking that Bendo had shields level standup. Eventually he just gave up punching altogether and started desperately shooting takedowns. Varner is a stupid motherfucker sometimes. Bocek's standup is pretty bad too.

Let me ask you this: What do you think of Clay Guida's stand-up?

[SPX]

I loved the fight. Last fight ever in the WEC, for the championship, tied going into round 5, close up until the last minute THEN BOOM THE PETTIS KICK!

I was also excited as fuck because I had money on Pettis so it made it even better.

100% Agree

I not only had money on Pettis, but I made a very rare ~2.5u bet on an underdog. That's easily the biggest I've ever gone on a dog.

[Vandelay]

Worse than bendo, better than bocek. Probably like a C- or D+. Definitely not good

[SPX]

You expect too much.

[Vandelay]

Same guy that got lit up by diego sanchez and Dos Anjos right? I don't think any1 thinks Clay Guida = above average standup.

[poopoo333]

Clay Guida's striking sucks.

[SPX]

Guida's striking isn't great, but D+ is a little harsh.

And I'd give Bendo's striking a solid B. And a B is a good grade. Who gets disappointed by a B?

[Vandelay]

Bendo gets a C. C plus at best.

[SPX]

Your mom gets an A.

At least she did last night.

[poopoo333]

inb4SPXasks"tell me who you think has A level striking?B level striking?"

[Vandelay]

And SPX retorts with something completely unrelated because he knows hes wrong.

[SPX]

And SPX retorts with something completely unrelated because he knows hes wrong.

There really aren't a lot of great strikers are lightweight.

A level might be Pettis, Guillard, Barboza. . .

B level is a whole bunch of motherfuckers, including Bendo.

Guida might be C level.

If you're below that then you're in King of the Cage or some other org. You're not in the UFC.

[poopoo333]

http://www.kaitaia.com/funny/g2/d/13361-1/lmao.jpg

[poopoo333]

Danny Castillo vs. Jacob Volkmann Added to UFC on Versus 5 in Milwaukee (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/5/11/2165418/danny-castillo-vs-jacob-volkmann-added-to-ufc-on-versus-5-in-milwaukee)


Dan Hardy vs. Chris Lytle Set For UFC on Versus 5 Main Card (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/5/11/2165534/dan-hardy-vs-chris-lytle-set-for-ufc-on-versus-5-main-card)

[Ludo]

Nice fight for Lytle. Castillo might have a challenge here since Volkmann is fucking huge.

[SPX]

I have a feeling Lytle takes him down and subs him.

Poor Dan Hardy. He goes from challenging for the title to being on the chopping block. Seems to be an all-too-common story.

[Ludo]

He was never meant for contender status as it turns out. If it were a year and a half ago would we even be having this conversation?

[SPX]

He definitely had a relatively easy road to the title. But Swick was recognized by most fans as the most legitimate challenger at the time and Hardy beat him. It couldn't be Fitch or Kos, because they had already fought GSP so recently. So what can you say.

[Ludo]

He definitely had a relatively easy road to the title. But Swick was recognized by most fans as the most legitimate challenger at the time and Hardy beat him. It couldn't be Fitch or Kos, because they had already fought GSP so recently. So what can you say.

Mike Swick is/was never jack shit at Welterweight. Considering that Ben Saunders and Marcus Davis are his best wins in the division he doesn't exactly scream "contender". Hardy's best wins are Davis and Swick, not exactly contender material either. Your right about there being nobody else at the time though. They figured if they were going to break open the british market they might as well do it by tossing a brit in for title contention whether he deserved it or not.

[SPX]

That IS how the UFC rolls.

Bottom line is that the welterweight division was weak at the time. Yes, they had Kos and Fitch like I mentioned, but those guys had gotten their shot and failed.

Things have changed since then. Before he got beat by Ebersole, Lytle was emerging as some sort of force, Fitch has waited long enough at this point that he deserves to try again, Ellenberger is a fast-rising commodity, Condit has been looking good, Rory Macdonald is not quite ready yet but he's a promising up-and-comer, BJ has returned to WW, Rumble is waiting in the wings, etc.

With all that said, I like Hardy. And even though I like Lytle too, I hope Hardy knocks his ass smooth out.

[poopoo333]

Jason Reinhardt vs. Edwin Figueroa Set for UFC on Versus 5 (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/5/19/2179361/jason-reinhardt-vs-edwin-figueroa-set-for-ufc-on-versus-5)

[SPX]

Jason Reinhardt? That dude's not cut yet?

[poopoo333]

Jason Reinhardt? That dude's not cut yet?

He looks pretty damn cut to me.

http://media.heavy.com/media/2011/02/JasonReinhardt.jpg

[poopoo333]

Jared Hamman drops to middleweight, faces C.B. Dollaway at UFC on Versus 5 (http://mmajunkie.com/news/23704/jared-hamman-drops-to-middleweight-faces-c-b-dollaway-at-ufc-on-versus-5.mma)

[poopoo333]

Joseph Benavidez vs. Eddie Wineland on Tap For UFC On Versus 5 (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/5/24/2188759/joseph-benavidez-vs-eddie-wineland-on-tap-for-ufc-on-versus-5)

[SPX]

An interesting fight that I think Wineland actually has a chance to win.

[poopoo333]

Leonard Garcia vs. Alex Caceres Added to UFC on Versus 5 (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/5/25/2189540/leonard-garcia-vs-alex-caceres-added-to-ufc-on-versus-5)

[Luke]

Shit , this card is better than UFC 130

[poopoo333]

http://www.bestfightodds.com/events/399.png (http://www.bestfightodds.com)

[Luke]

Lytle

[Ludo]

Christ thats a hard fight to Cap in Henderson/Miller. On the one hand Miller has more or less walked through everyone they put in front of him for the most part. On the other hand Henderson looked alot better than I thought he would against Bocek. I'll probably sit out on that one just to see how Bendo stacks up.

[SPX]

On the one hand Miller has more or less walked through everyone they put in front of him for the most part.

I wouldn't really say that. A lot of people felt like Bocek beat him and I thought his fight with Tibau was really close.

I'll probably be on Bendo here.

[poopoo333]

Tom Lawlor vs. Kyle Noke On Tap For UFC on Versus 5 (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/6/2/2202323/tom-lawlor-vs-kyle-noke-on-tap-for-ufc-on-versus-5)

[poopoo333]

lol @ Hardy/Lytle being the headliner instead of Miller/Henderson

[Luke]

Only in the UFC would someone on a 3 fight losing streak be headlining a card.................gay

[Mr. IWS]

Only in the UFC would someone on a 3 fight losing streak be headlining a card.................gay

Shit, if that nigga has a good fight, he could be the next Tuf coach.

[Luke]

Shit, if that nigga has a good fight, he could be the next Tuf coach.


But if he loses he'll get another title shot..............decisions, decisions

[poopoo333]

Report: John Makdessi vs. Paul Taylor Planned for UFC on Versus 5 (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/6/6/2208640/report-john-makdessi-vs-paul-taylor-planned-for-ufc-on-versus-5)

[edman5555]

ooh that is an interesting one. Makdessi is moving along.

[Thewisemann]

Great matchup, I was hoping to see Makdessi matched up with Taylor or Etim.

[SPX]

I wanted to see Taylor get another gimme fight before something like this.

[poopoo333]

I wanted to see Taylor get another gimme fight before something like this.

Those are the only fights he wins.

[SPX]

I think both Sherdog and Junkie scored the fight with Stout for him.

[poopoo333]

I think both Sherdog and Junkie scored the fight with Stout for him.

Yeah, but he still lost.

[SPX]

You know how that goes, though. Who really considers a screwjob a true loss?

[poopoo333]

You know how that goes, though. Who really considers a screwjob a true loss?

Brett Hart.

[Mr. IWS]

Brett Hart.

Oh snap. Post of the year

[poopoo333]

Oh snap. Post of the year

http://thebradyhicks.com/uploads/montreal-screwjob.jpg

[poopoo333]

Ronny Markes replaces injured Stephan Bonnar at UFC on Versus 5 (http://mmajunkie.com/news/24042/ronny-markes-replaces-injured-stephan-bonnar-at-ufc-on-versus-5.mma)

[Thewisemann]

Who the fuck is Ronny Marks?

[poopoo333]

Who the fuck is Ronny Marks?

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/200728/ronnypv.jpg

[Ludo]

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/200728/ronnypv.jpg

From now on we shall call him "mini-Vitor"

[SPX]

Line predictions for Story?

[Ludo]

I'm going to say -200 at least.

[poopoo333]

^^WRONG THREAD STUPID IDIOTS!!

[Luke]

Line predictions for Story?


Story -150

[Luke]

^^WRONG THREAD STUPID IDIOTS!!


negged

[SPX]

I'm going to say -200 at least.


Story -150


If he's -200 then I'll definitely be on Marquardt.

I would probably take Story at -130 or better.

[Vandelay]

uh marquardt will open as the fave for sure.

[SPX]

^^^ I said before that I thought it was a possibility, but got shot down.

I really hope Marquardt IS the fave because I will then be more then happy to bet on Story.

[Vandelay]

Think about it. a recognized name, big dude, who has an appeasing style. Facing a guy most people dont know who just recently fought a grueling fight. I'm surprised the line hasnt come out yet

[Thewisemann]

Wrong event guys

[SPX]

Think about it. a recognized name, big dude, who has an appeasing style. Facing a guy most people dont know who just recently fought a grueling fight. I'm surprised the line hasnt come out yet

I think that before the Alves defeat, Story would definitely have been the underdog. But now, considering that this is Marqurdt's first cut to 170 and there are a lot of questions surrounding him, Story will probably be at least a small favorite. I hope not. But that's what I anticipate.

[SPX]

Wrong event guys

What's done is done. We march forward.

[Luke]

What's done is done. We march forward.

+1

[Luke]

Think about it. a recognized name, big dude, who has an appeasing style. Facing a guy most people dont know who just recently fought a grueling fight. I'm surprised the line hasnt come out yet

You think most casual MMA fans know who Nate is ? I don't , I think more people will remember "oh this guy just dominated Alves "

[poopoo333]

Do you guys think Lytle will take Hardy down? I am pretty sure Lytle will be able to hang with Hardy on the feet, but Hardy actually did look pretty impressive against Swick @ UFC 105 after rewatching it.

[SPX]

You think most casual MMA fans know who Nate is ? I don't , I think more people will remember "oh this guy just dominated Alves "

What I want to know is how many casual fans bet on MMA. It seems that if the books were dominated by casuals who really don't understand the sport then we would end up with a lot of really good lines that got pushed in a retarded direction, like Kimbo being the favorite against Stefan Struve or something.

[SPX]

Do you guys think Lytle will take Hardy down? I am pretty sure Lytle will be able to hang with Hardy on the feet, but Hardy actually did look pretty impressive against Swick @ UFC 105 after rewatching it.

There are a lot of questions surrounding Lytle right now. He did not look good in his last fight and apparently had some kind of injury that he thought might force him to retire.

And I agree that Hardy looked really good against Swick. He's a solid fighter.

[poopoo333]

Pretty sure he had a knee surgery like 4 weeks out from the fight. I think Ebersole is just good as well

[Luke]

What I want to know is how many casual fans bet on MMA. It seems that if the books were dominated by casuals who really don't understand the sport then we would end up with a lot of really good lines that got pushed in a retarded direction, like Kimbo being the favorite against Stefan Struve or something.


You mean like Cain being the underdog to Lesnar or Big Nog at closing?

A lot of casual fans bet MMA, they may not bet 200-500 a fight bet they are betting 50-100

[SPX]

You mean like Cain being the underdog to Lesnar or Big Nog at closing?


Well there were a lot of people here who thought Cain would lose those fights. I thought both Lesnar and Nog had a chance, and had money on Nog in fact. Hindsight is 20/20 obviously, but you never know what's going to happen going into it. So I don't think it was that unreasonable for Cain to end up the dog.

[Luke]

Well there were a lot of people here who thought Cain would lose those fights. I thought both Lesnar and Nog had a chance, and had money on Nog in fact. Hindsight is 20/20 obviously, but you never know what's going to happen going into it. So I don't think it was that unreasonable for Cain to end up the dog.

Well then I'm going to need examples because Lesnar has been a fav in every fight he's fought in and so was Kimbo .

Besides casual fans don't move lines ,big bettors do.

[SPX]

Well then I'm going to need examples because Lesnar has been a fav in every fight he's fought in and so was Kimbo.

Examples of what?



Besides casual fans don't move lines ,big bettors do.

Money moves lines. If there are that many more casual fans than big bettors who are betting, the volume should be enough push the line in one direction or another.

[Luke]

Lost interest ....................

[poopoo333]

John Makdessi injured, forced out of UFC on Versus 5 bout with Paul Taylor (http://mmajunkie.com/news/24135/john-makdessi-injured-forced-out-of-ufc-on-versus-5-bout-with-paul-taylor.mma)

[SPX]

That's gay.

I didn't want to see either guy lose though, so it's okay.

[poopoo333]

Donald Cerrone Replaces Makdessi, Faces Paul Taylor at UFC on Versus 5 (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/6/27/2247380/ufc-donald-cerrone-replaces-makdessi-faces-paul-taylor-at-ufc-on-versus-5)



BOL

[SPX]

Bye, Paul.

Probably.

[poopoo333]

Thinking about going big on Jim Miller here.

[SPX]

Why?

I think Bendo has a very good chance to win.

[poopoo333]

I think Jim Miller will win on the feet, and will have the advantage on the ground. Even if Henderson can take Miller down, I think Miller will be able to get back to his feet and avoid any long periods of time on his back. Henderson won't be able to keep Miller down and do much damage or get a sub, but I think Miller will be able to get Henderson down and keep him there. The only time Jim Miller has really been in trouble was against Bocek on the ground, but Henderson is no Bocek when it comes to grappling.

inb4peopletellmehendersonbeatbocek

[edman5555]

You know Henderson did beat bocek... That said I don't know who wins. Miller is pretty good and so is Harry and the Hendersons.

[MMA_scientist]

I got Miller in this one. I am fan of both guys, I think is going to be FOTN.

[poopoo333]

I got Miller in this one. I am fan of both guys, I think is going to be FOTN.

Why do you think Miller will win? I am just wondering...I am trying to see if I am missing anything/if we have the same opinion/etc

[SPX]

I think Bendo can outstrike and outgrapple Miller. I'm not saying he will, but it would not surprise me.

And a fair amount of the Bendo/Bocek fight was contested in grappling situations and so I do think it's relevant.

[edman5555]

I think its anyones fight.

[MMA_scientist]

Why do you think Miller will win? I am just wondering...I am trying to see if I am missing anything/if we have the same opinion/etc

I think Miller is better everywhere. Not by a lot, but I think he is a better grappler, takedown are probably about even, and I think Miller has better hands. Plus he looks like the Butcher from Gangs of NY. Bendo is a better athlete, but Miller is technically better. I think Miller will come in with more pressure and win a decision.

[poopoo333]

Paul Taylor Out, Charles Oliveira In Against Donald Cerrone at UFC on Versus 5 (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/7/6/2263388/ufc-paul-taylor-out-charles-oliveira-in-donald-cerrone-ufc-on)

[poopoo333]

^^btw that makes me wet























with perspiration

[SPX]

So he's not fighting Lauzon now?

Hmm. . . Oliveira's victory is much less of a sure thing now, in my opinion. I still favor him, but not to the same extent.

[poopoo333]

It's going to be a sick ass fight for sure. This better get main card status...this would be a better main event then Hardy and Lytle

[SPX]

Agreed on all counts.

[Luke]

Cerrone

[SPX]

Why?

[Luke]

Why?

Because he'll win

[SPX]

Oh . . . right.

[MMA_scientist]

That Cerrone/Oliveira fight is sexytime.

I think Oliveira will sub him though.

[poopoo333]

Lytle/Hardy is tough to call. What do you guys think about it?

[flyinggogoplata]

That fight sucks for betting

[Ludo]

Lytle/Hardy is tough to call. What do you guys think about it?

Honestly I think standing they could be closer to even than alot of people might think. Despite being knocked silly by Condit Hardy still has some decent technical boxing. That said Lytle probably wins it on the feet with more power, more versatility, and a better chin. On the ground Hardy gets raped positionally.

[AC88]

I've got Lytle in this really irrelevant fight. Lytle has Hardy's number on the ground and on the feet, it could very well be even, but Hardy utilizes more muay thai. I think Lytle is the safer bet but I think Hardy can come in and outpoint him on the feet.

[SPX]

. . . but Hardy utilizes more muay thai.

I don't understand what you're saying here.

[AC88]

I don't understand what you're saying here.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall Lytle pretty much only throwing punches whereas Hardy mixes knees and sometimes kicks?

[poopoo333]

Tom Lawlor Injured, Off UFC on Versus 5 Card, Ed Herman Now Faces Kyle Noke (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/7/8/2265711/tom-lawlor-injured-off-ufc-on-versus-5-card-ed-herman-now-faces-kyle)

[edman5555]

Well I really doubt Hardy can knock out Lytle. I highly doubt he can submit him. So I guess a bet by decision on him is worth it because it will probably be at good odds. I don't know if he can outstrike him though. That might be kinda hard. I think Lytles hands are pretty good.

[sbjj]

Am I alone in thinking that Oliveira holds a fairly large edge over Cerrone?

[poopoo333]

Am I alone in thinking that Oliveira holds a fairly large edge over Cerrone?

I doubt it.

[MMA_scientist]

^ No. I think Oliveira is a better grappler by a lot and Cerrone tends to get tagged a lot standing as well. I think Oliveira has the edge in takedowns and submissions, standing it is close.

[sbjj]

I'm really surprised how many people seem to like Cerrone.

[poopoo333]

I doubt it.

btw, I meant that I doubt you are alone in thinking that.

[sbjj]

^ No. I think Oliveira is a better grappler by a lot and Cerrone tends to get tagged a lot standing as well. I think Oliveira has the edge in takedowns and submissions, standing it is close.

This is the thing standing. Cerrone fights at a very methodical pace. i think Oliveira will give him fits with his workrate alone standing. Also cerrone only seems to have a distinct edge standing when he is allowed to push his opponent back. i doubt he does this with Oliveira. In fact, I think oliveira will be pushing cerrone back, and that is when cerrone gets clipped...while moving back.

[poopoo333]

Well I really doubt Hardy can knock out Lytle. I highly doubt he can submit him. So I guess a bet by decision on him is worth it because it will probably be at good odds. I don't know if he can outstrike him though. That might be kinda hard. I think Lytles hands are pretty good.

Chris Lytle was dropped against Ebersole and Burns, I guess I could see Hardy getting the finish. Hardy is more of a in and out type of striker who throws short punches, retreats and resets. Lytle just throws windmill punches non stop hoping for a FOTN check. It's hard to see where Hardy is really at in a fight like this, because in his last 3 fights he has just gotten straight up ass fucked. Hardy did look good against Swick though and beat Marcus Davis who beat Chris Lytle (mma math FTW).


oh and btw, I am pretty sure this fight is a 5 rounder.

[edman5555]

Am I alone in thinking that Oliveira holds a fairly large edge over Cerrone?

i was kinda feeling that in the grappling department. I'm not sure about the striking though. Cerrone was a kickboxer for a long time but I remember Oliv being really fluid and impressive with his strikes. I will prob take oliv at good odds.

[edman5555]

^ No. I think Oliveira is a better grappler by a lot and Cerrone tends to get tagged a lot standing as well. I think Oliveira has the edge in takedowns and submissions, standing it is close.

cerrone doesn't have much in the way of knockout power so i dont see a lot stopping oliv from going in and tieing him up to go for takedown but i could be wrong.

[edman5555]

Chris Lytle was dropped against Ebersole and Burns, I guess I could see Hardy getting the finish. Hardy is more of a in and out type of striker who throws short punches, retreats and resets. Lytle just throws windmill punches non stop hoping for a FOTN check. It's hard to see where Hardy is really at in a fight like this, because in his last 3 fights he has just gotten straight up ass fucked. Hardy did look good against Swick though and beat Marcus Davis who beat Chris Lytle (mma math FTW).


oh and btw, I am pretty sure this fight is a 5 rounder.



well hardy can go 5 rounds. I wonder if Lytle can. He was talking about retiring a while ago, not that it affects his cardio.

[Luke]

Herman vs. Noke official for UFC on Versus 5, event now set with 12 bouts http://bit.ly/nmAk1y (http://bit.ly/nmAk1y)


MAIN CARD (Versus)

Dan Hardy vs. Chris Lytle
Ben Henderson vs. Jim Miller
Duane Ludwig vs. Amir Sadollah
C.B. Dollaway vs. Jared Hamman
PRELIMINARY CARD

Joseph Benavidez vs. Eddie Wineland
Ed Herman vs. Kyle Noke
Ronny Markes vs. Karlos Vemola
Alex Caceres vs. Leonard Garcia
Cole Miller vs. T.J. O'Brien
Danny Castillo vs. Jacob Volkmann
Donald Cerrone vs. Charles Oliveira
Edwin Figueroa vs. Jason Reinhardt

[Thewisemann]

Bump Cerrone/Oliveira and Benevidez/Wineland to the main card, and lose Sadollah/Ludwig and Dollaway/Hamman, seriously.

[mike]

what do you guys think the line would be on Ludwig-Sadollah ? I think Ludwig can beat Amir. Also like Figueroa, and bruce leeroy if he gets good odds.

[edman5555]

i think bruce leeroy is going to get destroyed again. I agree with you about Ludwig but I wouldn't bet on it. Sodollah is a really game fighter.

[mike]

sadollah is techniquely sound but hes a fragile fighter, it seems. but yeah im going all in on figueroa. reinhart suck n hes 40 yr old.

[SPX]

sadollah is techniquely sound but hes a fragile fighter, it seems.

I'm not sure "fragile" is the right word. He's 5-2, having lost once via decision (rightly so) and once via TKO (in a fight that was probably stopped early).

I suspect he's going to take Ludwig down and sub him.

[mike]

i think amir jits is overrated. he fought 3 ground guys and lost one by dec, one by tko and sub one. i dont recall him taking anyone down? the others are strikers whos there for him to look good. but he seems to improve very fast so he might surprise me this time. btw, do u know what day bookmaker usually put up lines for undercard fights?

[SPX]

i think amir jits is overrated. he fought 3 ground guys and lost one by dec, one by tko and sub one. i dont recall him taking anyone down? the others are strikers whos there for him to look good. but he seems to improve very fast so he might surprise me this time. btw, do u know what day bookmaker usually put up lines for undercard fights?

Two things. . .

1. Ludwig is a striker. He has a history of getting beaten by guys with ground skills.

2. No, I'm not sure about the undercard lines. I think it varies.

[poopoo333]

I think Amir beats Ludwig anywhere: on the feet and on the ground. I can see Ludwig stealing a close 1st round, but I see Amir taking over from there.

Figueroa is going to beat Reinhardt. He will be like -400.

Bookmaker usually opens the lines for the prelims the Tuesday or Wednesday of the week of the fight. Bodog opened the lines for UFC 131 prelims pretty far out from the card, but that never usually happens.

[edman5555]

Another thing about Amir is I don't think he had much if any fighting experience before going on the ultimate fighter. So all things considered he is pretty damn talented. He is going from 0-60 pretty successfully. That said I think he <probably> wins the standup and I would think he wins the ground game but I'm not sure. Most likely. His line will probably be insane though.

[SPX]

Amir had no pro MMA experience, but from what I remember he was something like 19-0 in muay Thai and also had like 4 amateur MMA fights or something along those lines.

[edman5555]

oh i didnt know he had muai thai exp. That makes me lean towards him.

[SPX]

Maybe not the most technical beatdown, but here you go:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI5JCxZhVkQ

[mike]

I think Amir beats Ludwig anywhere: on the feet and on the ground. I can see Ludwig stealing a close 1st round, but I see Amir taking over from there.

Figueroa is going to beat Reinhardt. He will be like -400.

Bookmaker usually opens the lines for the prelims the Tuesday or Wednesday of the week of the fight. Bodog opened the lines for UFC 131 prelims pretty far out from the card, but that never usually happens.

thx. after rewatching a few fights, i dont think amir is better than Ludwig standing. he might be more active but if Ludwig can sidestep and counter, he'll nail amir coming in. Amir has good kicks, but his hands arent anything impressive. I would give the edge to Ludwig standing and i doubt amir can take it to the ground with ease. Amir might win it with just being more aggressive but i like Ludwig. Everyone here likes Amir though so i'm reluctant to bet much on Ludwig.

[edman5555]

i think its pretty close tbh. amir did look really good in his last fight though.

[poopoo333]

I think Henderson/Miller goes distance @-185 is worth it.

[AC88]

^^ That prop is has awesome value!!!

[SPX]

What's so impressive about Ludwig's striking? It's always seemed to me to be kind of slow and robotic.

[poopoo333]

As for the line...I think Amir's line will be expensive. Duane Ludwig just came off of a controversial split decision, coming off injuries, fighting at 170 when 155 is his natural weight class, and has a record of a glorified journeyman. Amir got up as high as -400 against Damarques Johnson (somebody with more hype and somebody who would be favored over Ludwig) and Amir literally pulled his pants down in the middle of the octagon and TKO'd him.

soo I am basically saying if you want to bet on Ludwig, you are probably going to get a great line. If you want to bet on Amir....that sucks

[mike]

What's so impressive about Ludwig's striking? It's always seemed to me to be kind of slow and robotic.
he isnt a fast, explosive striker but he moves well, has pretty tight defense and ok cardio. I think his hands are better than Amirs, kicks are about even but he has better footwork imo. Amir is a more offensive minded with his striking while Ludwig is good with both offense and defense. Like Edman said, the fight is gonna be much closer than people think.

[MMA_scientist]

Bump Cerrone/Oliveira and Benevidez/Wineland to the main card, and lose Sadollah/Ludwig and Dollaway/Hamman, seriously.

http://www.gifanimations.com/GA/animation/ImageDisplay/1/10/36
http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Cerrone-Oliveira-Promoted-to-UFC-Live-5-Main-Card-33907

[edman5555]

Leonard Garcia is going to maul Caceres. That guy is not good at all. He is just a good character. Garcia will kill him. I pray we get a good line on this.

[poopoo333]

Thinking about going big on Jim Miller here.

I take this back. Jim Miller gets taken down too much and Henderson is strong in the clinch and will probably be able to get Miller down and do a better job at keeping him down than Gleison Tibau. I still think Miller is better everywhere and will win, but after watching Miller/Bocek, Henderson/Bocek, and Miller/Tibau about 1,000,000 times each I will just settle for the decision prop, or maybe put a small bet on Miller by decision if it's +200 or better.

[SPX]

Not sure why you think that Miller is a better striker than Bendo.

[Luke]

Not sure why you think that Miller is a better striker than Bendo.


It's called an opinion

[Vandelay]

It's called a fact

fixed

[SPX]

It's called an opinion

Opinions like that have to be based on something. . .

[poopoo333]

http://www.bestfightodds.com/fights/4190.png (http://www.bestfightodds.com)

2u on Oliveira @+120 yay

[SPX]

Damn. You're an asshole.

[Luke]

http://www.bestfightodds.com/fights/4190.png (http://www.bestfightodds.com)

2u on Oliveira @+120 yay

Haha I did the samething except for only one unit. This was one line 5dimes actually opened first that I knew which way the line would move from the opening. I plan on arbing out though for a small profit

[poopoo333]

I have been trying to hit opening lines I "know" will shift as well for possible arbs if I decide to do so. It is a good option if you change your mind/lose confidence in your bet as the event comes closer

[SPX]

Haha I did the samething except for only one unit. This was one line 5dimes actually opened first that I knew which way the line would move from the opening. I plan on arbing out though for a small profit

If you only put a unit on it, will the profit even be worth the trouble?

[poopoo333]

How is it any trouble?

[SPX]

Well for one you have to make two bets. You also have to carefully watch the lines and try to catch it at just the right spot before it possibly reverses course.

I'm just saying that to me arbing mostly only seems worth it when you can drop monster bets down, like 10u or more. Otherwise, I'd just let my bet ride and try to win some real money.

Bear in mind that this perspective might have something to do with the fact that my unit is only $20, so most arb opportunities might net me $3 or something like that.

[flyinggogoplata]

just hit the soft side over the long haul it will be more profitable then arbing.

EDIT: spx said what I just said but better, O well.

[flyinggogoplata]

Haha I did the samething except for only one unit. This was one line 5dimes actually opened first that I knew which way the line would move from the opening. I plan on arbing out though for a small profit

Luke I didnt cap this fight because you told me cerrone will win. Now that you bet Oliveira has gotten me nervous.

[Ludo]

What exactly is the "soft side"?

[flyinggogoplata]

What exactly is the "soft side"?

the off market price

[Luke]

Well for one you have to make two bets. You also have to carefully watch the lines and try to catch it at just the right spot before it possibly reverses course.

I'm just saying that to me arbing mostly only seems worth it when you can drop monster bets down, like 10u or more. Otherwise, I'd just let my bet ride and try to win some real money.

Bear in mind that this perspective might have something to do with the fact that my unit is only $20, so most arb opportunities might net me $3 or something like that.

My unit is 100 dollars and since the line is already +130 on the other side I'm guaranteed .2 or .3 units no matter who wins .To me .2 to .3 of guaranteed profit is worth it . This is the first time I've done this in a while and don't plan on doing to often because I'm never "sure" which way the line will move,this was one of those rare instances I was pretty sure the line was going to shift the other way

[Luke]

Luke I didnt cap this fight because you told me cerrone will win. Now that you bet Oliveira has gotten me nervous.


Lol I actually like Cerrone, the only reason I bet Oliveria is because I knew the line would shit and guarantee a profit . I'll take the .2 to .3 units of free money and now forget about the fight .

[flyinggogoplata]

I think money will come in on cerrone slightly might be able to get Oliveira at -150.

[SPX]

the off market price

What the fuck are you talking about?

[SPX]

My unit is 100 dollars and since the line is already +130 on the other side I'm guaranteed .2 or .3 units no matter who wins .To me .2 to .3 of guaranteed profit is worth it . This is the first time I've done this in a while and don't plan on doing to often because I'm never "sure" which way the line will move,this was one of those rare instances I was pretty sure the line was going to shift the other way

Rock on.

[Luke]

What the fuck are you talking about?

He means bad lines . Meaning if the actal line of the fight should be -150 after everyone has hit it and you hit +120,+120 is the soft side or bad line.

[poopoo333]

What the fuck are you talking about?

The line that isn't on the market anymore...Basically a good opening line. I think.

[flyinggogoplata]

He means bad lines . Meaning if the actal line of the fight should be -150 after everyone has hit it and you hit +120,+120 is the soft side or bad line.

I wouldn't use the word bad line though. Then the bookie can freeroll you. if it's -500 everywhere and they mis type +500 thats a bad line. Being 20 to 30 cents off to me is just a soft line probably at a slow moving rec book.

[Luke]

Rock on.

I don't plan on doing this much at all,in fact the last time I arbed out on a fight was Faber-Assuncao and that was 18 months ago...just got lucky this time.

[flyinggogoplata]

What the fuck are you talking about?

can't tell if you're trolling me or not.

[Luke]

I wouldn't use the word bad line though. Then the bookie can freeroll you. if it's -500 everywhere and they mis type +500 thats a bad line. Being 20 to 30 cents off to me is just a soft line probably at a slow moving rec book.

I was just trying to make it easier to understand

[SPX]

He means bad lines . Meaning if the actal line of the fight should be -150 after everyone has hit it and you hit +120,+120 is the soft side or bad line.


I wouldn't use the word bad line though. Then the bookie can freeroll you. if it's -500 everywhere and they mis type +500 thats a bad line. Being 20 to 30 cents off to me is just a soft line probably at a slow moving rec book.


Okay, thanks.

[Luke]

can't tell if you're trolling me or not.

He's not trolling,he's never bet anything but MMA.

[SPX]

I don't plan on doing this much at all,in fact the last time I arbed out on a fight was Faber-Assuncao and that was 18 months ago...just got lucky this time.

Word.

I've had a couple of opportunities when there was an arb on the board but I would have had to bet a huge amount to really make any money. And .2 to .3 units just isn't enough for me to bother. I'd rather let a straight bet ride and hope to make a full unit.

[SPX]

He's not trolling,he's never bet anything but MMA.

That's the truth.

Just MMA. And a little boxing.

And I guess the Captain America gross. But no other sports.

[poopoo333]

Sometimes you just know if you are gonna get an arb opportunity, like Rory Macdonald -140, Mark Munoz +160 against Maia, Dominick Cruz +120 against Faber etc

[flyinggogoplata]

This probably won't work great with mma but larger markets like mlb or nfl you can just calculate the no-vig line from pinnacles lines close to game time. If you can find a shop that has a line better then the pinnacle no-vig line bet it. You literally could turn a profit just doing that over and over.

[flyinggogoplata]

Sometimes you just know if you are gonna get an arb opportunity, like Rory Macdonald -140, Mark Munoz +160 against Maia, Dominick Cruz +120 against Faber etc

yep books opening lines know they are probably way off, they just don't care with the low limits they put on the openers. Once the line is banged into shape, then they open the limits up.

[Luke]

This probably won't work great with mma but larger markets like mlb or nfl you can just calculate the no-vig line from pinnacles lines close to game time. If you can find a shop that has a line better then the pinnacle no-vig line bet it. You literally could turn a profit just doing that over and over.

Or if you can get +105 or +110 on pinnacles closing line its also a good bet, use to be able to do that at matchbook before they closed.......sigh

[flyinggogoplata]

matchbook really kicked ass it sounds like I never played there. I I guess betmaker.ag is the replacement? I heard Cris owns them (they also own bookmaker).

[Luke]

matchbook really kicked ass it sounds like I never played there. I I guess betmaker.ag is the replacement? I heard Cris owns them (they also own bookmaker).

I'm going to try betmaker when football rolls around if I see the volume is high enough to get good juice on lines. The only thing is they don't do MMA or Boxing.The great thing about matchbook was they had 1 cent lines, if the line was -230/+190 everywhere they'd have it at -211/+210

[flyinggogoplata]

I did see mma on betmaker a while back. I think it opens up around weigh-in time for large cards.

[Luke]

I did see mma on betmaker a while back. I think it opens up around weigh-in time for large cards.

For real? Wonder why they open the market so late ?

[flyinggogoplata]

not sure maybe it was some kind of test. I did see a ufc card on there but it was before they got busted and had to change their url so maybe they gave up on mma.

[poopoo333]

Bets I am considering depending on the line for this card: Amir, Dollaway, Wineland, Figuerora, Garcia, Volkman/Castillo decision or over 2.5 rd prop

^^any thoughts on those?

I have bets on Miller/Henderson goes distance, Lytle/Hardy goes distance, and Charles Oliveira already.

[poopoo333]

Leonard Garcia out, Jim Hettes in against "Bruce Leroy" at UFC on Versus 5 (http://mmajunkie.com/news/24658/leonard-garcia-out-jim-hettes-in-against-bruce-leroy-at-ufc-on-versus-5.mma)

[edman5555]

that is some shit. I Was going to bet big on Garcia.

[Vandelay]

For those that are betting on Aloe Vera, how do u see the fight playing out? Do you think he has better striking than cowboy? He's fought primarily grapplers so far and he was better than escudero, lentz, and the other guy both standing and on the ground. This is the first fight other than the miller fight where i dont think he has the edge standing.

[AC88]

I have Cowboy in this fight. Cowboy at underdog odds is a GIFT. Cowboy's striking >> Lentz.

[MMA_scientist]

I think Oliveira will submit him if it goes down. Oliveira has pretty stout takedowns for a scrawny brazilian.

That said, I don't know who will win, though I do favor Oliveira, I won't bet it.

[edman5555]

tough call. oliv has the edge on the ground but cowboy isn't easy to takedown. Striking could be close...

[poopoo333]

Anybody here going to bet Lytle/Hardy?

[Vandelay]

What fight did olivera show good takedowns in? dont think he's ever gotten one in the ufc.

[poopoo333]

http://www.ufc.com/fighter/Charles-Oliveira

1 against Lentz
2 against Escudero

[Vandelay]

Just watched those 2. He got one on escudero and one against lentz. Both were throws where he used his opponents momentum against them. He does have good takedowns tho, just doesnt really have the strength to complete them. He usually gets pretty deep on the attempt but cant complete it. His hands and his overall strength are what needs improvement. Good kicks, good guard, seems to have a good chin, very athletic and quick. I just think cerrone is a better striker and can stuff his takedowns.

[edman5555]

you might be right.

[Ludo]

Anybody here going to bet Lytle/Hardy?

I'm on Lytle already, Hardy has some tools but he has looked like total shit in his last two. Not to mention Lytle is the better striker with harder strikes and a ground game thats alot better.

[MMA_scientist]

I might consider Cerrone by decision. He has never really stopped anyone with strikes that I can think of. They talk about it all the time, for a kickboxer he doesn't have a lot of power. He also can't sub Oliveira (probably). So decision is really his only out IMO. Had not really though about that fight, but now that I consider it, I think Cerrone via decision is the play. Or Oliveira straight up, because I think he had multiple ways to win.

[poopoo333]

I wouldn't say he looked like total shit against Condit...he just got KTFO right away. Against Anthony Johnson it's hard to tell..he got rocked by the head kick and then was suffocated by some big black hippo for the next 14 minutes.

[Vandelay]

cerrone by decision is plus 407 right now.

[MMA_scientist]

cerrone by decision is plus 407 right now.

Done and done. I will probably use it as an arb.

[sideloaded]

Done and done. I will probably use it as an arb.

not to be a dick but why arb with $100 limits?

[edman5555]

I think Cerrone by dec at +407 is a very good bet. Great odds for that. Cerrone isn't likely to knock him out and I doubt he can easily submit him. The most likely pitfall is Oliviera winning a dec or sub. I would think Cerrone should be able to outstrike him but you never know. I didn't see the nik lentz fight, i should look that up. I am pissed at myself for my previous dumb bets so I have to start doing some research again.

Hardy/Lytle: Ok few things, Lytle can submit hardy if it gets to the ground. He has a good solid mma bjj game. I don't think Hardy has much of a chance of subbing him. I am not sure who wins the wrestling exchanges though. I really can't answer that one. The standup is kind of a wild card as well. I see that being somewhat even. Lytle only has 3 ko's on his mma record. I would think that means he probably won't be knocking out hardy. His chin is great too. Hardy isn't the hardest puncher either.

Is the main event 3 rounds? If so I would think betting the distance prop would be a decent idea. Hardy/Lytle goes the distance is at -185 right now. Not bad at all.

Cerrone/oliv goes the distance is +140 as well. That isn't a bad deal either.

[sideloaded]

Cerrone/oliv goes the distance is +140 as well. That isn't a bad deal either.

then why is it steaming the other way?

[edman5555]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW4dBFpNvjg

lentz/oliv

[edman5555]

then why is it steaming the other way?

what do you mean? People are betting it not to go the distance?

[edman5555]

god oliv is slick on the ground. I don't think he will beat cerrone standing though.. I think cerrone is a little quicker and more skilled. He knees the shit out of lentz but that is because he is constantly clinching with him and is short. Cerrone will be the first guy he stans with him that can match his reach and has standup skill..

[edman5555]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Hettes --- This guy is fighting Alex Caceres AKA Bruce Leroy. I think that Leroy is not very good tbh. All of his losses are by sub and all Hettes wins are by sub. I will be on Hettes to win.

[edman5555]

I am not sure what to make of Duane Ludwig/ Amir Sodollah. I am sure Sodollah will be the overwhelming fav. I thought Duane lost his fight against Osipczak. I wonder who has the better standup here, Amir or Duane. They both fought Muay thai but Duane prob has a lot more mileage/ wear and tear. He does have muay thai titles though. I think Amir will be the bigger guy in this one. I guess I have to lean Amir but I bet he will be -400 or so.

Videz/Wineland.. VIdez will probably be a big fav but Wineland is pretty good. He won a round against Faber who is similar to Benavidez. He will be bigger and with a longer reach as well. Tough one to call. Wineland might make a good dog bet. Bena will probably win though.

Castillo/Volkmann. This is a tough one to call. It will probably be close. I will take Volkmann if he is a dog.

[Vandelay]

If your looking to bet cerrone by dec as an arb, why not just bet not cerrone inside distance.

[poopoo333]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Hettes --- This guy is fighting Alex Caceres AKA Bruce Leroy. I think that Leroy is not very good tbh. All of his losses are by sub and all Hettes wins are by sub. I will be on Hettes to win.

I think the UFC is using this card to get rid of the two biggest cans in the UFC: Jason Reindhart and Bruce Leroy.


I am not sure what to make of Duane Ludwig/ Amir Sodollah. I am sure Sodollah will be the overwhelming fav. I thought Duane lost his fight against Osipczak. I wonder who has the better standup here, Amir or Duane. They both fought Muay thai but Duane prob has a lot more mileage/ wear and tear. He does have muay thai titles though. I think Amir will be the bigger guy in this one. I guess I have to lean Amir but I bet he will be -400 or so.

Videz/Wineland.. VIdez will probably be a big fav but Wineland is pretty good. He won a round against Faber who is similar to Benavidez. He will be bigger and with a longer reach as well. Tough one to call. Wineland might make a good dog bet. Bena will probably win though.

Castillo/Volkmann. This is a tough one to call. It will probably be close. I will take Volkmann if he is a dog.

I think Amir will win. His line is going to suck so I probably won't bet it. Amir seems to have a weakness against guys that can take him down and control him (DHK and Damarques Johnson in round 1 of their fight). I also think Osipczak won that fight. Ludwig is one of those fighters that are going out, Amir is one that is coming in...I agree with your "wear and tear" statement. The first round may be close, but I think Amir will take over. Ludwig gassed against Osipczak IIRC, and Ludwig should probably be fighting at lightweight.

Joseph Benavidez will probably win, but he didn't dominate against Ian Loveland like everyone thought....but then again Loveland seems pretty good. I think this will be a close fight and Wineland will probably get my bet if he is up @+275ish like I think he will be.

I will bet Castillo/Volkman goes decision prop if it comes out. I like Volkmann in that fight though but it will be close.

[poopoo333]

I think Dollaway may be a solid bet. Hamman is an exciting fighter but is vulnerable to guys that can take him down and control him. Kingsbury did it well, and Wallace did it well even though he lost. Wallace went under cardiac arrest in that fight though and really allowed Hamman to turn it up and win the fight. Hamman is making his debut @ MW for this fight...he is gonna be a lanky MW which will probably be beneficial for Dollaway in getting him down. I don't think Hamman will be able to wrap Dollaway up and sub him though.

Thought?!!??!?!?!

[edman5555]

http://www.mmamania.com/2011/8/7/2350106/ufc-134-finally-healthy-antonio-rodrigo-nogueira-ready-to-make-his


Heh. Watch this video. Big nogs front tooth is missing in the beginning, then at abou the 2:40 mark he has two front teeth.

[edman5555]

maybe he puts a cap on for the camera..

[edman5555]

it sounds like he had some hardcore injuries and surgeries. I still think even a fully healed Bignog has trouble with Schaub. He is just bad matchup for him. Hard to take down and faster and maybe even better striking. I wouldnt be suprised to see nog pull it off though.

[poopoo333]

That fight is @ UFC 134 lol

But unfortunately I think Schaub wins.

[sideloaded]

If your looking to bet cerrone by dec as an arb, why not just bet not cerrone inside distance.

you could but remember arbing at the same book for free money is a quick way to get your account banned.

[mike]

you could but remember arbing at the same book for free money is a quick way to get your account banned.
oh damn i didnt know u would get banned for doing that.
anyhoe what do u guys think of the ed herman vs kyle noke fight? leaning toward noke here. also whats the chance of an unknown fighter on the undercard throwing a fight because some vegas gangster offer him $100,000 to throw it. because thats the only way i see figeroa losing to jason reighart.

[MMA_scientist]

As for Cerrone via decision, I may put more on it later, depending on Oliveira's line. I do like Oliveira to win, I think he is just a better fighter. I did not mean as a pure arb, I meant as a hedge against my Oliveira bet.

Edman, have you seen any footage of Hettes? Bruce Leroy is a can, he doesn't belong in the UFC IMO, or really any major org. Hettes needs to have some takedown skill though.

Pooppp, ss for Dolloway, he is turning into quite the grappler IMO. He has pretty nasty front chokes, but that pretty much requires the other guy to do the shooting. I can't stand his face, but he has a solid submission game and I like his wrestle/submit style. I don't remember much about Hamman though. What does he do?

[edman5555]

no footage of Hettes. I think he trains at GJ though. He is a judo guy as well. Apparently they call him "Judo Jim" down there according to his wiki page. He had 4 amateur fights that he won by submission and 8 pro fights all won by submission. I haven't really looked up much about him. I just know Leroy sucks ass. I was really hoping he would fight Leonard Garcia because I know he would get killed. That would have been easy money. Hettes is still 12 for 12 with his sub wins and he is a judo guy so I would think he can take him down. It would be nice to see some visual proof though. I still will take him if he is a dog though. Who knows if he will be though.

[edman5555]

As far as Oliv/Cerrone goes, I put 1.5u on Cerrone by decision. +407 is too good to pass up. I think that Cerrone has the edge in the standup and he probably has good enough grappling to avoid getting subbed on the ground or controlled for too long. I could be wrong about that though.

[poopoo333]

Pooppp, ss for Dolloway, he is turning into quite the grappler IMO. He has pretty nasty front chokes, but that pretty much requires the other guy to do the shooting. I can't stand his face, but he has a solid submission game and I like his wrestle/submit style. I don't remember much about Hamman though. What does he do?

Hamman is really just a really tough fighter. He won't stop fighting and he puts on a good show. He is one of those "not great in any area fighters". As for the front chokes, I can see Hamman getting into that position to be choked in a scramble.

[poopoo333]

Some info on Hettes:

http://jimhettes.com/about/


I can't find any fight videos though.

[MMA_scientist]

Some info on Hettes:

http://jimhettes.com/about/


I can't find any fight videos though.

It is tough to make a bet without having seen the guy. BUt I do not think there are many lower level fighters in the UFC than Caceres. Based on that resume, I may very well make a bet in the blind on Hettes. He sounds like he has the style to beat Caceres.

[poopoo333]

I hate making bets on fighters without videos too. I really try not to do it, that's how I lose my bets. That used to be my biggest mistake when betting on non UFC/Strikeforce cards. Looking at records is just dumb to me now

[edman5555]

yeah i hear you. I would have to see some evidence of Hettes Judo or BJJ prowess. If he was some sort of champion that would make me feel good about him getting caceres to the ground. If he is a dog he will be worth betting on. I have a feeling the line will be pretty close though.

[edman5555]

2-time Keystone State Games Judo Gold Medalist

Scientist, is this any good?

[Ludo]

What does everything think on Benavidez/Wineland? I'm kind of leaning Benavidez but I don't know if he's going to be able to do to Wineland what Faber was able to do in the second and third rounds.

[MMA_scientist]

2-time Keystone State Games Judo Gold Medalist

Scientist, is this any good?

I think that just means he is the PA state champion. That really means nothing. He probably only had to win 1 or 2 matches to gain that title.