ADCC 2011

[Vandelay]

We gonna get odds on this?

Can we get a breakdown from scientist on favorites in each division

One note: Big Foot will not be competing due to shoulder injury which also knocked him out of hendo match.

(not sure how accurate this list is)

-65.9kg

1. Rafael Mendes. Brazil (current champion, ADCC 2009)
2. Greger Forsel. Finland (European trials winner)
3. Marko Ramos. USA (North American trials winner)
4. David Marinakis. Australia (Oceania trials winner)
5. Tetsu Hadairo. Japan (Asian trials winner)
6. Jeff Glover. USA (second North American trials winner)
7. Bruno Frazzato. Brazil (South America)
8. Timo-juhani Hirvikangas. Finland (Second European trials winner)
9. Ryan Hall. USA (confirmed invitation)
10. Rubens "Cobrinha" Charles. Brazil (confirmed invitation)
11) Barret Yoshida. USA (confirmed invitation)
12) Rani Yahya. Brazil(confirmed invitation)
13) Robson Moura. Brazil (confirmed invitation)
14) ???
Denny Prokopos. USA (confirmed invitation)(out injured)
15) Tom Barlow. England (confirmed invitation)
16) Justin Rader (confirmed invitation)
Quote:
-76.9kg

Pablo Popovitch. (current champion)(Moving up to 88kg)
1. Jorge Britto. Brazil (European trials winner)
2. Vagner Rocha. Brazil (North American trials winner)
3. Davis Hart. Australia (Oceania trials winner)
4. Sanshiro Nakakura japan (Replaced Gomi)
Takanori Gomi. Japan (Asia trials winner)(Looks to be out, fighting Nate Diaz UFC 135,24th Sept)
5. Enricco Coco. USA (Second North America trials winner)
6. Murilo Santana. Brazil (South American trials winner)
7. Daniel Strauss. England (Second European trials winner)
8. Marcelo Garcia. Brazil(confirmed invitation)
9. Gunnar Nelson. Iceland (confirmed invitation)
10. Leo Viera. Brazil(confirmed invitation)
11. JT Torres. USA (confirmed invitation)
12. Kron Gracie. Brazil (confirmed invitation)
13. Gregor Gracie. Brazil (confirmed invitation)
14. Augusto Mendes “Tanquinho”. Brazil (confirmed invitation)
15. Claudio Calasans Brazil (confirmed invitation)
16. Jason Manly (confirmed invitation)
Quote:
-87.9kg

1. André Galvão. Brazil (current runner-up – Bráulio will face Ronaldo Jacaré in superfight)
2. Marko Helen. Finland (Europe)
3. Kyle Griffin (confirmed invitation)
Rustam Chsiev. Russia (North America) (Out Injured)
4. Cameron Rowe. Australia (Oceania)
5. Jeon Doo Kwang. South Korea (Asia)
6. James Harbison. USA(confirmed invitation)
JJ Holmes. USA (North America)(never responded to adcc)
Claudio Calasans. Brazil (South America)(Moved to 77kg)
7. Zbigniew Tyszka. Poland (second European trials winner)
8. Pablo Popovitch. Brazil (confirmed invitation)
9. Rafael Lovato jnr. USA (confirmed invitation)
10. Romulo barral. Brazil (confirmed invitiation)
11. Rousimar Palhares. Brazil (confirmed invitation)
12. Sergio Moraes. Brazil (confirmed invitation)
13. Paulo Filho. Brazil (confirmed invitation)
14. David Avellan. USA (confirmed invitation)
15. Dan Schon. Mexico (confirmed invitation)
Quote:
-98.9kg

1. Xande Ribeiro. Brazil (champion)
2. Kari Peltola. Finland (Europe)
3. Joseph Lee Baize. USA (North America)
4. Igor Praporshchikov. Australia (Oceania)
5. Animal Anzai. Japan (Asia)
6. James Poupolo. USA (North America)
7. Augusto Ferrari. Brazil (South America)
8. Kamil Uminski. Poland (second European trials winner)
9. Roger Gracie. Brazil(confirmed invitation)
10. Rodolfo Viera. Brazil(confirmed invitation)
11. Joao Assis. Brazil(Confirmed invitation)
12. Dean Lister. USA/Brazil (confirmed invitation)
13. Robert Drysdale. USA (confirmed invitation)
14. Radek Turek. Poland (confirmed invitation)
15. Antonio Peinado (confirmed invitation)
16. James Brasco (confirmed invitation)
Quote:
+99kg

1. Fabricio Werdum. Brazil (champion)
2. Janne-Pekka Pietiläinen. Finland (Europe)
Mario Rinaldi. USA (North America)(Out)
3. Lucio "lagarto" Rodrigues. Brazil (confirmed invitation)
4. Mick Wilson. Australia (Oceania)
5. Sekine Hideki. Japan (Asia)
6.????
Jared Rosholt. USA (North America)(never responded to adcc)
7. Gabriel Vella. Brazil (South America)
8. Mateusz Juskowiak. Poland (took second in trials but winner already had invite- Europe2)
9. Jeff Monson. USA (confirmed invitation)
10. Bruno Bastos. Brazil(confirmed invitation)
11. Roberto "cyborg" abreu. Brazil (confirmed invitation)
12. Antonio ”bigfoot” Silva. Brazil (confirmed invitation)
13. Vinny Magalhaes . Brazil(confirmed invitation)
14. Geraldi Rinaldi. USA (confirmed invitation)
15. Fereira Jose Junior. Brazil (confirmed invitation)
16. Alexander Trans. Denmark (confirmed invitation)
Quote:
People who have said they would like to do absolute.

1.Pablo Popovitch-(Wants to do absolute GracieMag)
2.Rafael Mendes(quoted on front page of Mendes Bros wanting to do absolute)
Quote:
-60kg

1. Luanna Alzuguir. Brazil (champion)
2. Lara Jayne Ng. Australia (Oceania)
3. Hashi Takayo. Japan (Asia)
4. Cathilee Albert. USA (North America)
5. Michelle Nicolini. Brazil (South America)
6. Sara Svensson (European trials winner)
7. Krya Gracie. Brazil (Confirmed invitation)
8. Rosi Sexton. U.K (confirmed invitation)
Quote:
+60kg

1. Hannette Staack. Brazil (champion)
2. Fiona Muxlow. Australia (Oceania)
3. Penny Thomas. South America (North America)
4. Talita Nogueira. Brazil (South America)
5. Devi Ahuja. Norway (European trials winner)
6. Gabi Garcia. Brazil (confirmed invitation)
7. Ida Hansson (confirmed invitation)

[poopoo333]

war robson moura

[Vandelay]

the 87.9 and 98.7 kg divisions look stacked. I would of liked to of seen how big foot would have performed. And gomi would of taken the 76.9 division by storm.

[Ludo]

You are aware that Bigfoot Silva's manager isn't Ed Soares? It doesn't look like he'll be out of the competition. Anyway...

I'm interested to see how Strauss fares.

[MMA_scientist]

Bigfoot would not do well IMO.

We won't get odds in this. If we did, I would only bet ADCC.

-65.9
Rafa Mendes is the favorite. He is incredible, he will win IF he can make weight. He was 77kg in 2009. ADCC has a rule where you have to be on weight as you step on the mat, I think he will end up in 77kg. Caio Terra (Cesar Gracie) and Bruno Malficine (Alliance) are the two best grapplers at that weight. I don't see them on the list, so it there for Mendes to take. Some people think Yahya could be a dark horse because he as been out of the scene for a while and he has been working his wrestling. Rader is the current no-go world champ, he is probably the USA's best chance at a gold medal. Really this is the easiest division to call. Robson is an innovator, but he is too old. I really like both Hall and Glover, but they are not in Rafa's league. I think Rafa will win again.

-76.9
Marcelo or Claudio Calasans or Gus Mendes will win. They are three of the best grapplers in any weight class. It is good to see Gunnar Nelson out there, but Marcelo and Claudio are on top of thier games right now. Calasans is also an international wrestler and very good judoka. I think Calasans will pull off a minor upset. Also Kron (Rickson's son) will be fun, but he doesn't have enough IMO.

-87.9
Galvao is the favorite, but I don't think he will get it done. He has always been sort of hot and cold, and he eeked out a couple of matches in 2009. He barely got by Weidman in 2009, but Vinny Magalhaes his a flying armbar on him to submit him (of course, Galvao beat Vinny). Word on Palhares is that he can submit anyone, and that he submits world champions in the gym. He last competed as a purple belt and he subbed Romulo Barral in that tourney. Barral is a stud and a top tier guy. If Palhares competes, he could surprise some people and win a very deep division. Moraes, Barral, Popovitch, Lovato... that division is stacked. Any one of those guys could win that division.

-98.9
Xande and Rodolfo have to be the favorites. Drysdale ahs won it before, he could win. Roger won't compete... if he did, he would be the favorite. Antonio Peinado has all the buzz right now... he could be that guy that just comes out of nowhere. He has not competed much, but there is a video of him rolling with Marcelo and doing very well, actually kind of kicking his ass-- that is what his invite is based off. So he could surprise some guys. Everyone wants to see Rodolfo and Roger. Assis could win too. This division is stacked. If Roger shows up, that division is going to be nuts. Xande is the one guy that has put Roger in trouble and damn near subbed him with a triangle. It is between Xande, Assis, and Viera. Rodolfo is not as good without the gi according to some, but he is only like 21, so I think he has a steep learning curve. I will take Rodolfo to win, but I think Peinado will be on the stand, he may even win. I have never heard of the guy, but no one handles Marcelo like he did.

+99
Bastos or Werdum should win that. Magalhaes coming up in weight, he could surprise some people.


Superfight is Braulio vs. Jacare. Tough match to call, I will say Braulio.


Absolute, I will take Rodolfo Viera to win it all if Roger doesn't show up. If Roger is there, I will take Roger to win.


But all this is just pissing in the wind, there will be no lines.

[Vandelay]

I dont know. we've seen crazier events have lines (wrestlemania), small promotions such as king of the cage, tachi fights, etc. but those are usually on the weekends where no ufc or strikeforce fights occur and the adcc is on the weekend of ufc 135.

Is this gi or no gi

[poopoo333]

I remember odds being given for this.

Googled it and found this discussion

http://www.efnsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=7338.0

[Vandelay]

nice work poopoo.

mendes won the uder 66kg at plus 1200

pop won the under 77 at plus 750

estima won the under 88 at plus 200

riberio won the under 99 at plus 275

werdum won the over 99 at plus 250

Now this says bookmaker tho. I wonder if 5dimes had lines

[poopoo333]

They didn't. I remember it...I am pretty sure it was bookmaker and bodog.

[Svino]

Is this gi or no gi

ADCC is no gi.

[MMA_scientist]

I did not know that. That is awesome. My year will be made on this event. Got to go fund BM.

[MMA_scientist]

There is a 40 page thread about this in f12 fwiw.

[MMA_scientist]

I should also mention that ADCC has a habit of announcing matchups without having ever spoken to the competitors. They do this constantly. By the time the event rolls around, the list will look completely different. Even since you posted this list, Gregor Gracie is out and Victor Estima (Braulio's brother) is in. I have my doubt about half of these guys even showing up.

[edman5555]

vagner rocha is the north american trials winner.

[MMA_scientist]

vagner rocha is the north american trials winner.

It is not as bog a deal as you might think. He is not going to win.

[edman5555]

well i was thinking that must put him worlds ahead of the mckenzetine.

[MMA_scientist]

well i was thinking that must put him worlds ahead of the mckenzetine.

Yeah, you would think. I said in that thread that I will be on Rocha because of that reason.

[Luke]

Everyone in this thread..............negged

[Vandelay]

From Roger on BE. Sounds like hes committed to mma which is nice.

"I won't fight the ADCC. I had in mind maybe I wasn't fighting it, because every time I fought World before fighting MMA I didn't feel good, I didn't feel like my body and mind were 100%. It's too close to risk it. I'm upset about it, but my priority has changed, I'm closer to MMA and leaving Jiu-Jitsu aside a little. In my mind I still want to fight the World, but it's once a year, and I don't mind the rest that much.

"I couldn't do what I have trained to do back then. I believed in my jab and he (King Mo) wasn't bringing much danger," he said. "When I heard Renzo (Gracie) saying there was a minute and a half left for the end of the first round, I relaxed. I didn't have enough time to submit him nor take him down, he wasn't punching me, so I thought I would keep it that way until the second round. That was the first mistake. The second was that he accidentally hit his head against mine, and I got dizzy. I moved backwards, he punched me and I felt. That head was practically an accidental knockout. When I tried to grab him, clinch, his head hit my face and I backed off.

"I was supposed to work on the clinch, because I wouldn't risk trying to grab his legs and take him down because it wasn't the beginning of the fight, so I wasn't using much energy with no purpose. I was supposed to work on the clinch and take him down. And during the first round I didn't try to do that, and suddenly I realized the danger he was putting me in. Losing is terrible. Nobody likes losing, especially being knocked out. But what can I do? I'll train so it won't happen again".

And Jacare

Former Strikeforce middleweight champion, Ronaldo Jacare will be in Nottingham, England, on September 24 and 25 to compete at ADCC's super fight, against Abu Dhabi champion Braulio Estima.

The BJJ ace lost his Strikeforce middleweight title last weekend after a 25 minute war against Luke Rockhold, but guaranteed the fans he'll still fight at ADCC. "Let's move on, let's keep our head up. Now it's submission time, get ready for me Braulio", Jacare said on his Twitter.

[MMA_scientist]

I am actually glad to hear both things. I knew that is what Roger would do. I am kind of surprised Jacare is going to compete, but that is awesome. I really want to see Braulio and Jacare go at it. The first 5 minutes should be wild (the first 5 minutes are not scored to encourage guys to go for the finish).

I have never been a big Jacare fan, just because he was Roger's rival and I always pulled for Roger... but I really do like his attitude. He seems like a guy that is always in a good mood.

[MMA_scientist]

Palhares is 100% confirmed. He will be there, really interested to see how he does.

[Vandelay]

hopefully the odds come out tomorrow...

[MMA_scientist]

I am still skeptical that we will get odds. We won't get any until the brackets are released, which usually doesn't happen until the day before. The draw makes a huge difference in a tourney format. Just look at the SF tourney, I picked Barnett to win it even though I think he is the 5th best HW in that tourney, just because I knew he would at least be in the finals... whereas AO had to go through Werdum and Fedor/Silva just to get there. The best 4 guys were all on the same side of the bracket making it less likely that any one of them would survive (and surprise, none of them did).

So I am not making ant bets until I see the brackets. If you want to bet Palhares, if he has to go through Galvoa, Popovitch, Barral, and Moraes- it is pretty unlikely he would survive all of those, even if he was 75% to win any one of them individually. But if he gets an easy road to the finals, that makes it a lot easier to bet.

[MMA_scientist]

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/9/22/2441223/adcc-2011-abu-dhabi-combat-club-submission-grappling-championship-preview-bjj

decent read... KJ Gould posts over in the grappling forum a lot... he is a catch fanatic and everything he says has to be taken with a grain of salt. Still, I think he did a pretty good job here.

[MMA_scientist]

brackets out:



http://www.adcombat.com/sites/default/files/images/ADCC%202011%20-66.preview.jpg (http://www.adcombat.com/sites/default/files/images/ADCC%202011%20-66.jpg)

http://www.adcombat.com/sites/default/files/images/ADCC%202011%20-77.preview.jpg (http://www.adcombat.com/sites/default/files/images/ADCC%202011%20-77.jpg)

http://www.adcombat.com/sites/default/files/images/ADCC%202011%20-88.preview.jpg (http://www.adcombat.com/sites/default/files/images/ADCC%202011%20-88.jpg)

http://www.adcombat.com/sites/default/files/images/ADCC%202011%20-99.preview.jpg (http://www.adcombat.com/sites/default/files/images/ADCC%202011%20-99.jpg)

http://www.adcombat.com/sites/default/files/images/ADCC%202011%20+99.preview.jpg (http://www.adcombat.com/sites/default/files/images/ADCC%202011%20+99.jpg)

[SPX]

This is the MMA thread. ADCC =/= MMA. Off-topic. Bannable offense.

Scientist, being a lawyer does not mean that you get special treatment.

[Vandelay]

Palhares got the 1 seed huh?

Also, Marcello seems to have the easiest bracket.

[MMA_scientist]

-65.9 I have no idea why Rafael and Bruno are matched up in the first round, whoever wins that will probably win the division. That will be a fun division to watch though as Hall, Glover, Rubens Charles, and Moura are all crazy fun to watch. Hall got hosed on his draw, Yahya or Cobrinha (Charles) will probably make the final.

-76/9 That is set up for Marcelo and Calasans to rematch in the finals, and that is what will probably happen.

-87.9 Palhares got a very nice draw, a gift really, he could make the finals... he really only has to get by Lovato and Barral, who are good buy not as good as the other guys. The other side of the bracket is much tougher, with Galvao and Popovitch and Nelson all on that side. Galvao and Popovitch are probably #1 and #2 seeds.

-98.9 This one is set up for Xande and Rodolfo to meet in the finals, and that is probably what will happen.

+99 Werdum should make the final here... Vinny Magalhaes could suprise as he got an easy draw and he is coming from a lower (and better) weight class. Abreu could beat Werdum (or even Monson might have one last good performance in him), but Magalhaes has an easy path to the final. He just ahas ot get by Bastos.

For the superfights, I am going with Renzo and Jacare/Braulio is a great matchup, a guard player against a guard passer. Jacare will probably win on points.

[MMA_scientist]

Palhares got the 1 seed huh?

Also, Marcello seems to have the easiest bracket.

It is not "seeded" in terms of 1,2,3... I am not sure how they do it tbh, but it isn't seeded the traditional way. I think they just try to make it interesting.

Disagree that Marcelo has the easist bracket... he has to fight Calasans in rd 1. Calasans beat him last time. I think Werdum has the easiest overall division.

[Vandelay]

I thought they did it where the #1 guy is the 1 seed and the #9 guy is the 2 seed. but you probably know better than I do. And is "Calasans" Davis Harts nickname?

[Vandelay]

nevermind. Ignore my last question

[poopoo333]

I asked the bookmaker oddsmaker if he was gonna give ADCC odds and he said " doubt it, busy MMA schedule as is...".


That fucking lazy bitch

[Vandelay]

lol. yea 4 events this weekend is alot. Poor timing from the adcc. try asking 5dimes mayb they will be the pioneer in this one.

[MMA_scientist]

I thought they did it where the #1 guy is the 1 seed and the #9 guy is the 2 seed. but you probably know better than I do. And is "Calasans" Davis Harts nickname?

nevermind, i was getting marcelo/calasans confused with Mendes/Frazzato. Yeah, Marcelo did get an easy draw to the finals. He only has to beat Kron, which he will do.

As for the seeding, I really don't know, but just looking at the brackets, it cannot possibly be that way, but it does sort of look like it in every bracket except 67.9 and and 87.9... I don't know, maybe it is seeded like that. Every brackey has the favorite at the top except Palhares.

[MMA_scientist]

I asked the bookmaker oddsmaker if he was gonna give ADCC odds and he said " doubt it, busy MMA schedule as is...".


That fucking lazy bitch

Put some yakuza pressure on 5D.

I told you there wouldn't be any lines, then you got me all excited thinking there were going to be lines. Don't fuck me.

[Luke]

everyone in here consider yourself negged again

[trotterz]

Did any of you guys asked if 5D are going to post lines?&

[Vandelay]

sounds like palhares injured one of his opponents after he subbed him and was forced to restart cause they said he was out of bounds

[MMA_scientist]

ADCC is awesome, the budovideos stream is very good. It is worth the price.

Palhares is dominating... he went a little long on a heelhook and almost got into a fight with Avellan. Palhares is fuckin crazy and likes to hurt people's knees.

Xande looks like he is super sharp, I think he wins the absolute. He chokes logarto unconscious.

Ryan hall faced a guy in space suit and yoda mask in rd 1.

Braulio beat Jacare on a back take.

Kyle Griffin is a D1 wrestler and brother Tyson Griffin. He pulled the biggest upset off in rd 1, but got triangled in Rd. 2 by lovato.

Werdum got an armbar on Monson and elimiinated him.

[MMA_scientist]

Marcelo spent like 20 seconds on the mat.

Palhares tapped Avellan twice, once in bounds and once out of bounds.

Rafael Dos Anjos replaced Rani Yahya, and got DQ'd in rd 1.


The semis are going to be awesome. I am really hoping to see Palhares get by Lovato tomorrow, he will face the winner of Galvao and Popovitch if he does... he is a lot bigger than both of those guys (they both fought at WW in MMA, and Popovitch is in a higher ADCC weight than last year). If Palhares can get by Lovato's guard, he is probably going to win, because both Popovitch and Galvao are mostly top players, and they ain't getting Palhares down.

[Mr. IWS]

Ryan hall faced a guy in space suit and yoda mask in rd 1.



wat?

[MMA_scientist]

wat?

several of the first round guys did weird stuff, and the guy was dressed uo in pro wrestling garb. I read he also bit Hall during the match.

Robson still has some game, he beat Hall in the quarters.

I just watched the Jacare/Braulio match... Jacare was stalling a lot, Braulio controlled the whole thing. I was really surprised to see how good Braulio's wrestling has gotten, he is going to be a force in MMA. Time to post the pic of me with Braulio... now that ROger sucks in MMA and Maia is K1 Maia, I guess I am jumping on the Braulio mma wagon.

[Vandelay]

eh, hes 31. too old to start now. Palhares is the real deal on the ground then? or his opposition was just bad

[MMA_scientist]

eh, hes 31. too old to start now. Palhares is the real deal on the ground then? or his opposition was just bad

He started training years ago. He was supposed to fight Rick Hawn last year or maybe in 2009. 31 gives him 4 or 5 solid years, that's plenty of time. You realize Brock is 34 right? and started when he was 30... he is not too old.


As for Palhares, everyone knew his ground game was the real thing. He submistted Romula Barral as a purple belt, and the word is that he subs everyone including world champs that come into the gym. Avellan is good, that is not easy competition. He is for real.

[Vandelay]

Brock also had the best base to start with and is in relatively easy division. Or at least it used to be. Not sure what weight class braulio is in. If he actually has been training for a cpl years than sure he should be good, but if not, his striking and wrestling wouldnt be good enough to cut it in time before his skills started to deteriorate

[MMA_scientist]

I didn't think he would do well because he is a protypical guard player... but he outwrestled Jacare, he had a very sweet arm drag to single leg. His shot is fast and he actually looks good on his takedowns. That was what is making me think he can do well. Also he is very tall for his weight, I think he would be a MW or could possibly make WW.

It doesn't matter, he has not said he was going into mma, I am just hoping because he had that fight scheduled with Hawn.

I also don't entirely agree with the common idea that wrestling is necessarily the best base. Of all of your all time greats, champs, and PFP fighters, not that many of them were wrestlers. Really Hughes is the only "wrestler" that has been on top of his division for more than a minute (that I can think of off the top of my head).

[Vandelay]

That was the past when most wrestlers had shitty jj. Nowadays all the top guys have a wrestling base. save for Silva and Aldo who havent really faced many wrestlers.

[MMA_scientist]

That was the past when most wrestlers had shitty jj. Nowadays all the top guys have a wrestling base. save for Silva and Aldo who havent really faced many wrestlers.

Just looking at the UFC, there are 4 champions that have defended their titles. Only Cruz has a wrestling base, and even then, he was only a high school wrestler... I wouldn't really even call that a wresting base. He has just adapted to MMA. GSP is no more "a wrestler" than Cain is a bjj guy. GSP does not have a wrestling base, he is a grappler that is good at wrestling. I think he started wrestling last (after karate and BJJ). Of the other 3 champions, they are wrestlers first (Jones, Cain, Edgar), but we'll see how they do. Jones is probably going to stick around. The most dominant guys in history have been anomalies in their own ways, except Hughes, who is pretty much a wrestler.

[Svino]

If you're going by pre-MMA background, wouldn't you have to include Ortiz and Liddell as wrestlers?

[MMA_scientist]

Yeah. Like I said, off the top of my head. Liddell is a good example of being something of an anomaly... he was a pro kickboxer too... but Ortiz is a good example of a wrestler (but again, I don't know if ever wrestled after HS).

The other issue is that there are more wrestlers entering mma than other styles. There are thousands of college wrestlers who are in their athletic primes and then there is nothing for them to do when college wrestling is over. There are far fewer competitors in other styles, especially high level athletes that are coming right from intense training... it would be like if there was no NFL, and all of teh sudden there was a sport that required tackling and running... but wasn't football. There would be a bunch of talent out there looking for something to do. I think that if karate or kickboxing or jj were collegiate sports in the U.S., then we would see a lot more guys in MMA with those styles as a base. Judo is the one sport that is as widely practiced as wrestling (world-wide, nit in the U.S.). I am surprised we don't see more judo guys.

[Svino]

Yeah, I definitely agree that there is a major cultural component to the fact that we have so many wrestlers in MMA. Our college sports system churns out far more trained wrestlers than we have in other martial arts.

But I think submission grappling will always run into a problem at the highest levels of the sport. At high levels, the fights get more even, and even fights are likely to go to a decision. What gets you a decision win?

Striking skill helps you win decisions.
Positional grappling helps you win decisions.
Offensive submission skill pretty much does not help you win decisions.

On the other hand, bjj still seems pretty powerful at lower levels and probably will remain so. Guys like Cody can rack up 12 (identical) submission wins in a row over scrubs.

[MMA_scientist]

I think that sub grappling/bjj will just have to focus more on takedowns. All the same moves that exist in wrestling also exist in bjj. All the takedowns are the same, except some you don't do because they put you in a dangerous spot (like you don't see many fireman's carries because it gives the other guy a crucifix). Guys are getting better at the takedowns now, the same way the guys that came from a non-submission wrestling are getting better at submissions these days. You are starting to see bjj guys taking down wrestlers, and I think that will continue.

I think a lot of it will come down to athleticism. You even see it now, the more athletic wrestlers do well (you do see some pretty unathletic and weak D1 wresters, but you don't see them in MMA) and the more athletic bjj stylists do well with the takedowns, like Jacare.

[Luke]

..

[Luke]

Fixed

[Ludo]

I think it has less to do with the styles themselves and more to do with outside factors like athleticism and gyms now. Nowadays you have the option to train with high level wrestling coaches, jiu jitsu coaches, and striking coaches all in one place in certain gyms, if you can't do it in one place more guys are open to letting people come in and train anyway. It wasn't like that ten or even five years ago. It used to be a rarity for an American to be a Gracie black belt(see Matt Serra) but now they will train anyone who comes knocking with the money to pay for it. Athleticism speaks for itself. I think the only thing holding back certain high level college wrestlers from having success is striking. If they developed faster with striking the takedowns would be set up better, like Munoz.

[Vandelay]

waiting for scientist to come in here crying. Werdum lost, xande and rodolfo lost in semis, and palhares lost.

[Mr. IWS]

waiting for scientist to come in here crying. Werdum lost, xande and rodolfo lost in semis, and palhares lost.

He already commited suicide, but he left a note. Ill post the contents of said note later.

::handshake::

[SPX]

BOL!

[MMA_scientist]

You guys are so weird. I am not a fan of Rodolfo or Palhares at all. I actually think Palhares is a huge douche and I was glad to see Galvao take it to him, especially because he is much smaller than him. I sort of like Xande, but not a favorite. I was never Werdum fan either until I got put in the role of defending him all the time on here. I actually thought that Vinny had a great chance of winning that division, and was not surprised at all... although I think Werdum broke his arm.

Marcelo was incredible. Galvao is on a tear. Rafa won as expected.

Galvao won absolute... I am glad for him, he finally has his moment in the sun. He always gets close, but he has never won one of the big tourneys... good for him.

The only real surprise was that Glover submitted Robson and that Lister came out of nowhere to win a stacked division where I would have seeded him like 8th.

[Luke]

^^^^^^sounds like tears to me

[MMA_scientist]

Whatever, you're still crying cause you found out James Toney can't actually fight. I don't to hear from you.

[Vandelay]

I wonder how his keyboard still works when so many tears splashed down on it...

[poopoo333]

::baghead::

[Luke]

I wonder how his keyboard still works when so many tears splashed down on it...

Probably went out and bought a new one,that's why it took so long to respond.

[Luke]

Whatever, you're still crying cause you found out James Toney can't actually fight. I don't to hear from you.

Don't make me post a jpeg of Roger Gracie laying stiff on the canvas

[Vandelay]

why not just post a picture of someone (not scientist) gushing over Hendricks.

http://www.mmafightvids.com/wp-content/videoimages/img_3279_ufc-133s-johny-hendricks-im-the-happy-bearded-guy-post-fight-interview.jpg

[Mr. IWS]

inb4...................

[poopoo333]

I'd boink Karyn Bryant and make little bumblebee colored children with her.

[Mr. IWS]

I'd boink Karyn Bryant and make little bumblebee colored children with her.

She likes dat BBC breh. Just ask Rampage.

[MMA_scientist]

fuck you.


^ that is directed at all of you, btw.

[poopoo333]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Owpl3Xf6AkE&feature=player_embedded

[poopoo333]

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/1978966/Nelson-vs-Monson_large.jpg

[Vandelay]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FohRibjEbgI&feature=player_embedded#!

That guy should of just forfeited rather than allow the match to be reset in a position where palhares has a leg lock.

[Mr. IWS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FohRibjEbgI&feature=player_embedded#!

That guy should of just forfeited rather than allow the match to be reset in a position where palhares has a leg lock.

Yeah, that was nuts. I love Palhares, that dude is fuckin nasty.

[Vandelay]

And i like how palhares clearly slapped/punched the guy in the side of the head and tried to play it off as a hug.

[edman5555]

yeah palhares is either a moron or a douchebag. That was a hard hug slap.

[edman5555]

god damn he is a beast though.