UFC 143

[poopoo333]

Carlos Condit vs. Josh Koscheck in the works for UFC 143 in Las Vegas (http://mmajunkie.com/news/25966/carlos-condit-vs-josh-koscheck-in-the-works-for-ufc-143-in-las-vegas.mma)

[SPX]

Kos should win. Wrestling's too good.

[poopoo333]

This card is supposed to have GSP/Diaz as well. And Lauzon/Pettis is rumored.

[MMA_scientist]

Agree, I like Koscheck if he comes to grapple. If Kos comes to fight though, I think Condit can take him.

[SPX]

This card is supposed to have GSP/Diaz as well. And Lauzon/Pettis is rumored.

I hope we get a good line on Pettis. . .

[Luke]

BOL.........Condit got passed on a title shot now he'll lose.


To the back of the line you go.................

[Ludo]

BOL.........Condit got passed on a title shot now he'll lose.


To the back of the line you go.................

you know how I know your gay..........................

[poopoo333]

Line guesses for Condit/Koscheck? Won't be surprised if both guys open close to even

[SPX]

I think Kos will be -170 or worse. If the line opens close to even, I will definitely be on Kos for a few units.

[Luke]

Kos -140

[Luke]

you know how I know your gay..........................

know how I know you are a pedo ........

[edman5555]

condit is pretty dangerous. i wouldnt bet Kos.

[SPX]

Condit may be "dangerous" but he's always been weak in the wrestling department and Kos is one of the best wrestlers in the division. I really don't see him having a huge problem exploiting that opening.

With that said, if Kos comes to box then he may very well lose. I guess it all depends on how smart he fights.

[MMA_scientist]

I was pretty amazed at Condit's ability to sweep DHK, although he did get taken down. Koscheck's title hopes are dead, so I think there is a good chance he become a bonus hunter and just tries to bang.

[edman5555]

Well GSP could go down to lightweight and Kos can move up to 185 so its not totally impossible. He can even fight for the title again with 4 or 5 good wins. He will come to wrestle though, maybe G and P?

[Ludo]

Well GSP could go down to lightweight and Kos can move up to 185 so its not totally impossible. He can even fight for the title again with 4 or 5 good wins. He will come to wrestle though, maybe G and P?

GSP will go up to Middleweight before he goes down to Lightweight. His frame is too big for 155 anyway. By the time Koscheck has enough steam for a title shot again GSP will have vacated the title after clearing the whole division out(which he's about two fights away from right now).

[SPX]

Yes, GSP is close to clearing out the division, but by the time he's beaten Condit and Ellenberger, Rory McDonald might be in line, and then by the time he's beaten McDonald there will be someone new that's climbing up through the ranks. Basically, there will always be SOMEONE you can make an argument for.

[Ludo]

Yes, GSP is close to clearing out the division, but by the time he's beaten Condit and Ellenberger, Rory McDonald might be in line, and then by the time he's beaten McDonald there will be someone new that's climbing up through the ranks. Basically, there will always be SOMEONE you can make an argument for.

Just because guys like Fitch and Koscheck have gotten beaten and badly by GSP doesn't mean Condit, Ellenberger, and Macdonald necessarily DESERVE a title shot. Ellenberger has a decent case having just beaten Shields but Condit hasn't beaten a single high ranked contender other than possibly Ellenberger in his UFC stretch.

[edman5555]

well gsps trainer came out and said his frame is not big enough for 185 and he would most likely go down to 155 if he moved, depending on whether or not frankei edgar is champ. They both train at renzo's. Also rory trains with Gsp and considers him a mentor.

[zY|]

GSP has 'cleaned the division out' about 3 times. There will always be somebody.

[Ludo]

well gsps trainer came out and said his frame is not big enough for 185 and he would most likely go down to 155 if he moved, depending on whether or not frankei edgar is champ. They both train at renzo's. Also rory trains with Gsp and considers him a mentor.

GSP's trainer said he would prefer St Pierre to move down than up but the notion is a ridiculous one.

[SPX]

well gsps trainer came out and said his frame is not big enough for 185 and he would most likely go down to 155 if he moved, depending on whether or not frankei edgar is champ. They both train at renzo's. Also rory trains with Gsp and considers him a mentor.

GSP at 155 would just be bizarre. I can't even imagine it.

[Ludo]

well gsps trainer came out and said his frame is not big enough for 185 and he would most likely go down to 155 if he moved, depending on whether or not frankei edgar is champ. They both train at renzo's. Also rory trains with Gsp and considers him a mentor.

Since when does GSP train at Renzo's? I've heard of GSP going to train with Roger in the UK and training with Renzo for the fight with Shields but as far as I've ever known he does most of his training in Montreal with select members of Jacksons going up there to help him prepare. Frankie trains in Jersey with Pellegrino and Almeida mainly. I don't think Frankie is a mainstay member of Renzo's team. Even if he was I doubt GSP would have a problem fighting him. Like I said the majority of GSP's training occurs in canada where he brings people in to help him.

[MMA_scientist]

Since always. GSP got his BB from Renzo and it was an issue of contention in the Serra fights, since Serra is also a Renzo Gracie BB.

[edman5555]

Yes. Also, GSP at 155 isn't that big a stretch. He does Olympic weightlifing a la PooPoo to stay big. Faras Zahabi did an interview where he said GSP basically has to lift weights to stay big(I guess they all do to a degree). I think if he could get his normal body weight down to 175-180 he could make the cut. He used to be around that if you remember. He recenlty said he was pushing up to 193 with weight lifting. It actually makes more sense to go down now that I think about it. He is pushing it hard with weighting lifting just to get up around middeweight. Those guys are cutting from 200+. GSP would have to get pretty muscle bound. He is only about 5'10'' btw.

[SPX]

I've just always felt that GSP looks relatively thin even as a WW. Yes, he's muscular and ripped, but he's never looked particularly thick, at least not to me.

[poopoo333]

Erik Cock vs Dustin Poirer

[SPX]

That will be a good fight. Line should be even, in my opinion.

[poopoo333]

Cock -165

[SPX]

If either guy comes in as any significant kind of dog then I think he's worth a bet. I think this fight could totally go either way.

[poopoo333]

If either guy comes in as any significant kind of dog then I think he's worth a bet. I think this fight could totally go either way.

How do you see them matching up style wise?

[SPX]

I've actually always thought they were very similar fighters. They also look similar. They're basically kind of like brothers.

I imagine this will be mostly a striking affair, but if one of them comes to grapple, then I think it will be pretty even on the ground too, maybe a slight edge to Poirier.

[poopoo333]

Cock is the much better technical striker in my opinion, with better T3D.

[SPX]

The "much" better technical striker? I'm not sure that either is much better than the other in any regard.

And his T3D seems to be pretty solid, but I liked how Poirier handled himself in the grappling department against Grispi, and we just saw some submission skills out of him against Garza.

It's a pretty even fight, I think, and should be a fun one too as long as they don't just cancel each other out to the point that it's one of those boring fights were not much happens.

[poopoo333]

The "much" better technical striker? I'm not sure that either is much better than the other in any regard.

And his T3D seems to be pretty solid, but I liked how Poirier handled himself in the grappling department against Grispi, and we just saw some submission skills out of him against Garza.

It's a pretty even fight, I think, and should be a fun one too as long as they don't just cancel each other out to the point that it's one of those boring fights were not much happens.

I said "in my opinion".

Grispi sucks. He choked out a guy that could be subbed by a grappling dummy.

It should be a good fight, I just think Cock has the edge.


<333333

[mike]

Cock is the better striker but I think Poirier can stall him against the fence. Does Cock train with Pettis ? their styles are so similar. anyways, i'll be on Cock.

[poopoo333]

Kongo/roy nelson

[poopoo333]

Kongo/roy nelson


UPDATE: Roy Nelson vs. Cheick Kongo Not Facing Each Other After All (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/11/17/2568649/ufc-143-report-roy-nelson-vs-cheick-kongo-mma-news)

[poopoo333]

Alex Caceres vs. Edwin Figueroa added to UFC 143 (http://mmajunkie.com/news/26153/alex-caceres-vs-edwin-figueroa-added-to-ufc-143.mma)

[SPX]

They need to give Caceres someone like Shannon Guggerty and build him up a little.

[poopoo333]

Rafael 'Sapo' Natal welcomes newcomer Michael Kuiper at UFC 143 (http://mmajunkie.com/news/26300/rafael-sapo-natal-welcomes-newcomer-michael-kuiper-at-ufc-143.mma)

[poopoo333]

GSP has a blown ACL. @DanaWhite (https://twitter.com/#%21/DanaWhite) just tweeted that Diaz vs Condit for interim title.

OH MAN

[Mr. IWS]

All in on Diaz

[poopoo333]

GSP is out for 10 months too

[Vandelay]

damn dana's #2 cashcow is out. He might need to convince liddell to fight jones or something.

[SPX]

Damn, that sucks. Seems like GSP hasn't fought in forever and now it's going to be forever more.

[MMA_scientist]

And there is a great chance he comes back in a weakened and less effective state. So this is how it ends for GSP, with a whimper, not with bang.

[poopoo333]

So..GSP out for 10 months.

Condit/Diaz is interim WW champ early Feb

Diaz is going to have to defend his WW "belt" before GSP comes back late 2012...right???

[MMA_scientist]

Hendricks future WW champ. Believe.

[poopoo333]

So seriously....who do you guys have? Condit or Diaz?

[MMA_scientist]

Diaz. The thing is, from now on Diaz is going to be in 5 rounders. He can beat a lot of ass in 5 round fights. He might even be able to beat Hendricks in 5 rounds.

[Mr. IWS]

And there is a great chance he comes back in a weakened and less effective state. So this is how it ends for GSP, with a whimper, not with bang.

I agree, It will be all down hill from here for Georgy.

[Mr. IWS]

So seriously....who do you guys have? Condit or Diaz?

I love Diaz here. Condit is not gonna finish Diaz standing or on the ground, and there is no way he is gonna be able to keep the pace that Diaz will set.

[Mr. IWS]

He might even be able to beat Hendricks in 5 rounds.

Blasphemy!

[SPX]

Diaz, but only because Condit doesn't have great TDs.

[sbjj]

Am I crazy in thinking that Carlos might just be able to keep up with Diaz for 5 round(maybe the only one who can). This is the same guy that looked stronger in the 3rd round with Kamp., Berger, and Rory than he did in the first round.

[MMA_scientist]

I think Condit can keep up with his pace, I just don't know that he can stand with Diaz. I guess I have been underestimating Diaz's standup. I still feel that he will lose to wrestlers, but the UFC is giving him some pretty winnable fights here. What does Condit do better than Diaz? He might have more power I guess.

[sbjj]

I have just never really seen Condit outstruck. He was walloped by Berger, but other than that he seems to have been able to hang standing with everyone he has fought. And he has fought some pretty good strikers. Diaz striking starts to look a whole lot better when the other guy tires out. What if Condit does not tire?

[sbjj]

Condit could use leg kicks also. i just see this as a very close fight.

[MMA_scientist]

Oh, I agree. I wasn't saying Diaz can't lose... I totally think Condit could win. But gun to head- Diaz. But either way, that fight is going to be good quality violence. It is pretty much guaranteed to deliver. What is Dana going to do when Fitch becomes WW champion though. If he gets by Hendricks (all Hendricks joking aside, he probably will), I think he can and will beat Condit or Diaz.

[edman5555]

pretty interesting. Sucks for George. It would be cool to see Diaz champ. I don't know who wins condit/diaz.

[zY|]

OH GODDAMNIT

[SPX]

What is Dana going to do when Fitch becomes WW champion though.

Fold the WW division

[Luke]

gsp is scared

Diaz kills Condit

[AC88]

LOL @ Fitch being able to fight the winner of Diaz vs. Condit if GSP gets stripped of the title for being out too long. That would be horrible.

[sbjj]

I seriously doubt Fitch would be next. I bet the Berger-Sanchez winner gets the next shot. Diaz-Sanchez 2 or Condit-Berger 2 Hell Yea.

[Ludo]

Without GSP at the helm there's no reason not to give it to Fitch. Dude hasn't lost a fight since GSP in 2008 and has posted a 5-0-1 record since fighting GSP. If he beats Hendricks there's no reason not to throw him in the title mix unless GSP comes back and murders Diaz.

I just don't see Condit winning this fight. He has better kicks is about all he can do better than Nick. Nick has the better ground game, the better scrambles, the better clinch work, the better striking, and perhaps not so much one shot knockout power but easily enough power to do what he needs to do. With Diaz it's not about matching his pace it's about not getting hurt so much it saps your cardio. He's going to hit you, that much is a fact, but if you limit the damage and keep him from just wading in and lumping you up 6 punches at a time you can find the holes in his game like how he leaves his chin exposed when throwing those looping body shots. In My opinion Condit needs to be very careful in his approach here, because trying to out-wild Nick Diaz hasn't gone over well for the last few guys to try it.

[mike]

Condit will KTFO Diaz. he is the more fluid striker with as good cardio. Diaz only becomes the dominant striker after his opponents slow down, be it because of the pressure he put in but I think Condit can keep up with his pace. Condit aint scared homie...

[Ludo]

Diaz only becomes the dominant striker after his opponents slow down, be it because of the pressure he put in

Or after he hurts them, or after he outstrikes them.

[Luke]

Line guesses Condit-Diaz?

[poopoo333]

Diaz -165 Condit +125

[poopoo333]

Mike Pierce Confirms Fight With Josh Koscheck At UFC 143 (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/12/8/2622749/mike-pierce-confirms-fight-with-josh-koscheck-at-ufc-143)

[Vandelay]

Ill be on pierce for sure. Been a while since Koscheck faced another wrestler with superior striking.

[poopoo333]

Renan Barao vs. Scott Jorgensen Set for UFC 143 in Las Vegas (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/12/9/2623125/renan-barao-vs-scott-jorgensen-set-for-ufc-143)

[SPX]

Ill be on pierce for sure. Been a while since Koscheck faced another wrestler with superior striking.

Even after the way Pierce barely squeaked by Bradley?

[MMA_scientist]

I have to think Koscheck will win that. But I do think it will be competitive.

[Vandelay]

I don't think koscheck's striking is very good at all. Koscheck was getting worked by hughes for most of the first rd. Pierce's chin is solid and he wont be outstruck by someone with one punch. Pierce did look off against bradley not sure why.

[MMA_scientist]

Bradly is a pretty good wrestler in his own right, he has a better pedigree than Pierce anyway. I agree that Koscheck's striking is somewhat overrated, but I don't know that Pierce is the guy to take advantage of it. I assume he will be an underdog though, so he will probably be worth a play.

[poopoo333]

Fabricio Werdum Faces Roy Nelson in UFC Return

....

[MMA_scientist]

Damn, that is a tough fight for Werdum. I want Werdum/Mir.

[edman5555]

I favor fabricio

[MMA_scientist]

Yeah, me too, but I don't know if he can get Roy down. I think Fabricio could probably outstrike him, but he has no confidence in his striking for some reason. If he resorts to butt flopping again, Roy just might oblige him. Werdum is probably the only guy at HW that could sub Roy off his back, but I wouldn't count on that. It is just another tough style matchup.

[Luke]

Good matchup. Like Werdum at first glance.

[SPX]

http://www.bestfightodds.com/events/478.png

[edman5555]

well werdum has confidence in his standup, he just knows he cant outstrike overeem.

[Mr. IWS]

I cant fuckin believe that line for Diaz. Just put 100k on it.

[SPX]

BOL

[poopoo333]

what is the consensus on diaz/condit? I think diaz -130 is a gift

[SPX]

I lean Diaz, but Condit has surprised me plenty of times in the past and has looked quite solid in his last few fights.

Why is Diaz such a gift?

[edman5555]

That fight is tough to call.

[MMA_scientist]

I like Condit TBH. I think Diaz's hype is out of control.

[Mr. IWS]

what is the consensus on diaz/condit? I think diaz -130 is a gift

I dont know if Im way off base, but that is the best line I have seen on a fight in a while. I think Diaz is going to destroy Condit.

[edman5555]

Yeah, me too, but I don't know if he can get Roy down. I think Fabricio could probably outstrike him, but he has no confidence in his striking for some reason. If he resorts to butt flopping again, Roy just might oblige him. Werdum is probably the only guy at HW that could sub Roy off his back, but I wouldn't count on that. It is just another tough style matchup.

Why would he need to flop for Roy....his striking is probably better than Roy's. Frankly I think he is most likely better than Roy in all areas. Bjj for sure. Conditioning for sure. Wrestling I dont know but suspect yes.

[edman5555]

I dont know if Im way off base, but that is the best line I have seen on a fight in a while. I think Diaz is going to destroy Condit.

I don't know. Daley dropped him. Kj noons almost out struck him. If Daley had more self control he probably would have won his fight. Look how close a striking battle kj had with Diaz two times. Masvidal walked through noons in the striking department. I think condits striking is very good. That said, I don't know who's striking is better. Both guys have great conditioning. Wrestling is up in the air. I think it's anyone's fight. Crazy to bet anything big.

[Ludo]

I don't know. Daley dropped him. Kj noons almost out struck him. If Daley had more self control he probably would have won his fight. Look how close a striking battle kj had with Diaz two times. Masvidal walked through noons in the striking department. I think condits striking is very good. That said, I don't know who's striking is better. Both guys have great conditioning. Wrestling is up in the air. I think it's anyone's fight. Crazy to bet anything big.

I don't remember the second fight being terribly close striking wise. I had a bet on KJ at the time and I knew Diaz took it in the end. Nick pretty much did what he wanted to KJ in the last two rounds. We know Condit isn't subbing Nick, he might be able to score the TKO but I don't think Nick would tap even if he was caught deep. He'd go out Minotauro style and lose via TKO (Injury) that way, or ref stoppage from being unconscious.

[SPX]

Based on what? When has Nick been in a deep sub and gone out Samurai style?

[Ludo]

Why would he need to flop for Roy....his striking is probably better than Roy's. Frankly I think he is most likely better than Roy in all areas. Bjj for sure. Conditioning for sure. Wrestling I dont know but suspect yes.

He wouldn't necessarily need to flop, but he might feel like he has to get it to the ground. Roy is definitely confident enough to take Werdum down and lay in his guard and even try to pass. I think Roy's top game is good enough to hold Fabricio off for a little while with consistency. Werdum is the better technical striker but I think he's totally terrified of using it unless he has no choice.

[Ludo]

Based on what? When has Nick been in a deep sub and gone out Samurai style?

He's never been subbed at all. In fact I don't remember him ever being caught deep in a sub to begin with. I just have a feeling he wouldn't tap. Alot of high level blackbelts just won't tap, and Cesar seems like the kind of guy who would teach that shit to people. Look at the gracies as a whole. Royce didn't tap when Matt Hughes about ripped his arm in half, Renzo didn't tap even after Sakuraba broke his shit and kept cranking before the ref saw it was busted and stopped things, neither did Royler when Sakuraba had him trapped(even though that should have been allowed to go on). Couple that with the whole legend of Kimura and him breaking Helio's arm back in the day. These guys don't tap to shit and it's a matter of pride. I doubt Nick would tap to be quite honest.

[SPX]

Even Nog tapped when shit got too hot.

But maybe you're right. Who knows. At the end of the day I don't imagine it matters much considering that tap or not when shit gets broken or a nigga goes unconscious, they lose.

[Ludo]

Even Nog tapped when shit got too hot.

But maybe you're right. Who knows. At the end of the day I don't imagine it matters much considering that tap or not when shit gets broken or a nigga goes unconscious, they lose.

Minotauro didn't tap until the humerus gave way. And I get what your saying about it being a loss at the end of the day. But I just think some of these guys have that whole "jesus didn't tap" mentality where they'd rather get choked out and shit they're pants before waking up than just admitting they got caught in a sub.

[SPX]

Maybe so. It's just extremely rare. Almost everyone taps.

[Ludo]

Maybe so. It's just extremely rare. Almost everyone taps.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge34hs-4PKk

[SPX]

I just said it's rare. Most fighters tap.

To be honest, it's pretty retarded to NOT tap. Brazilians are crazy. They let their shit get broken instead of take a loss in a sport (and then take a loss anyway after the ref realizes their shit is broken). They're also willing to take someone's life--as Scientist alluded to in the OT--because someone has a dude in a losing position on the cover of a taekwondo book.

Those motherfucker's honestly scare me.

[Ludo]

I just said it's rare. Most fighters tap.

To be honest, it's pretty retarded to NOT tap. Brazilians are crazy. They let their shit get broken instead of take a loss in a sport (and then take a loss anyway after the ref realizes their shit is broken). They're also willing to take someone's life--as Scientist alluded to in the OT--because someone has a dude in a losing position on the cover of a taekwondo book.

Those motherfucker's honestly scare me.

Well they don't have much. Pride tends to be a large portion of the things people who don't have much count when listing things they do have. I do agree it's stupid but it does exist for some of these guys. They come in with chips on their shoulders and constantly act like they have something to prove, before you know it they won't be smart about things. This could also fall into something we were talking about a few weeks ago about Palhares being possibly mentally handicapped to a degree. Maybe some of these guys aren't quite "with it" upstairs, you know?

[SPX]

^^^ An intelligent reply.

Yes, pride, I guess that's it. Pride . . . poverty . . . Even here in the States, in ghetto culture, "respect" is a big deal. They'll kill you over that shit. Where as in more affluent areas if you disrespect someone they'll just go inside or, in extreme instances, call the police on you.

All I know is that one thing I don't like are unpredictable people and people who get physically violent because shit doesn't go there way. Brazilians seem to be such people.

[Ludo]

^^^ An intelligent reply.

Yes, pride, I guess that's it. Pride . . . poverty . . . Even here in the States, in ghetto culture, "respect" is a big deal. They'll kill you over that shit. Where as in more affluent areas if you disrespect someone they'll just go inside or, in extreme instances, call the police on you.

This was what I meant when I mentioned poverty. You don't hear about someone being bludgeoned to death by a group of upper class suburbanites. You don't hear about driveby shootings in middle to high income neighborhoods. I guess it's just that people outside of poverty grow up knowing they have options or something.

Whatever it is it means everything to these people.


All I know is that one thing I don't like are unpredictable people and people who get physically violent because shit doesn't go there way. Brazilians seem to be such people.

That much I can't explain really other than maybe thats just the culture. Kind of like how losing your shit on someone in japan looks bad on you, not them no matter what happened. To lose control of yourself in public to the japanese is a detriment to how they view you and not the target of your verbal attack.

Maybe it's a healthcare thing. Like that kid you went to school with who was batshit psycho and lost his temper for seemingly no reason, or was always in fights and incredibly uncaring for the well being of others. Maybe because of the poverty and whatnot there is no way to get help for these types of people in these "simpler" areas.

Maybe it's just riot mentality 24/7 over there.

[SPX]

^^^ Yeah, I guess so. All I know is that it frightens me. I mean, guys like Nog and Maia seem cool and normal, but guys like Palhares and Falcao seem, basically, like man-children. I wouldn't want to turn my back to them . . . wouldn't want to leave them alone with my kids.

[MMA_scientist]

^ Fransisco Mansur (on of Helio's original 7 blackbelts) was at my school a couple months back. He told me some scary strories about the way it is/was over there. I mean, I have heard some of these guys suggest solving interschool problems by breaking legs on purpose and stuff, and that seemed a little extreme. I have heard one of these guys point blank just say, "just kill him" all dead serious like it was an option. Apparently, Helio killed a bunch of people back when he was younger. I watched City of God a couple months back, and that is really what he described... they just don't value life very much in the poor areas and there are a lot of crazy bastards running around. It is like the inner city here, except with no law enforcement or very crooked law enforcement.

FWIW Palhares and Falcao grew up poor, while Maia and Nog are playboys.

[edman5555]

Helio killed a bunch of people? Please elaborate. Any other stories?

[MMA_scientist]

That's what he said. Mansur is 73 years old, so this would have been way back. There is nothing to elbaborate, he just said that Helio used to kill people that pissed him off, like it was nothing. He said that is how the used ot solve their problems (with murder), then it went to breaking legs, now they just try to win with money. Mansur showed me his bullet wounds and stab wounds, he had been shot 10 times and stabbed several times. He was a member of the special police (like Paulo Thiago) for like 40 years. A real badass, but a super nice guy.

[edman5555]

Keep the details coming.

[MMA_scientist]

The only specific story he told me was Helio killed a guy on a bus for some small and petty reason. Don't know if any of it was true or not, but Mansur was just saying it with no judgement, like that is the way it is.

[edman5555]

I guess helio could just choke him out.

[SPX]

FWIW Palhares and Falcao grew up poor, while Maia and Nog are playboys.

I guess what I take from that is that wealth and education truly are civilizing forces. . .

[SPX]

He was a member of the special police (like Paulo Thiago) for like 40 years. A real badass, but a super nice guy.

I've always wondered why someone would sign up for a job like that.

Is it for the adventure? To get in on the corruption? Or do the people who do it truly believe in what they're doing?

[edman5555]

What kind of shape is mansur in? Is he alrihgt after all those yeqrs of shape bjj

[Mr. IWS]

Ill merc that brazillian nigga

[Ludo]

I've always wondered why someone would sign up for a job like that.

Is it for the adventure? To get in on the corruption? Or do the people who do it truly believe in what they're doing?

Some people just feel like thats the only way to "make a difference" I think. Plus what kid doesn't grow up admiring cops and wanting to grow up catching bad guys?

[MMA_scientist]

I've always wondered why someone would sign up for a job like that.

Is it for the adventure? To get in on the corruption? Or do the people who do it truly believe in what they're doing?

Pretty sure it is for the action and power. I applied for the FBI when i was younger, just wanted to whup some ass legally, run red lights, and when someone messed with me I could go "Special Agent, FBI" and whip out my cock- I mean badge.

[MMA_scientist]

What kind of shape is mansur in? Is he alrihgt after all those yeqrs of shape bjj

He moves better than most 20 year olds, he actually suprised the shit out of me how quick he is. He is in great shape and still rolls and takes falls like a champ. It was pretty inspiring.

[SPX]

Some people just feel like thats the only way to "make a difference" I think. Plus what kid doesn't grow up admiring cops and wanting to grow up catching bad guys?

Well I guess that's my question. Are the members of the police force in Brazil like, "We need to clean up this town! It's time to make a difference!"

Or are they like, "We need to get these drug dealers so that we can steal their drugs and get in on the profits!"

[MMA_scientist]

I honestly think for most cops it is just something to do that sounds badass and not boring. Ask poopoo, he wants to be a pig.

[SPX]

On topic:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9KDNbQx9vk

[SPX]

I honestly think for most cops it is just something to do that sounds badass and not boring. Ask poopoo, he wants to be a pig.

Considering the difference in the environments, I would think that the mindset of someone who signs up to be a cop in Brazil would, in most cases at least, be different from the mindset of someone who signs up to be a cop in America.

In the US most cops go their whole careers without ever drawing their gun . . . in Brazil I have to think that the likelihood of getting killed is much higher.

[poopoo333]

Ask poopoo, he wants to be a pig.

Yeah I thought about it, mostly because the pay was decent and it seems like a fun job for the most part.

[MMA_scientist]

Considering the difference in the environments, I would think that the mindset of someone who signs up to be a cop in Brazil would, in most cases at least, be different from the mindset of someone who signs up to be a cop in America.

In the US most cops go their whole careers without ever drawing their gun . . . in Brazil I have to think that the likelihood of getting killed is much higher.

Oh, yeah I am sure. Also, I think most law abiding citizens in Brazil actually respect the police. I thought you just meant in general.

[SPX]

No, I mean what would inspire someone to be a cop in a war zone, basically.

[Ludo]

Considering the difference in the environments, I would think that the mindset of someone who signs up to be a cop in Brazil would, in most cases at least, be different from the mindset of someone who signs up to be a cop in America.

In the US most cops go their whole careers without ever drawing their gun . . . in Brazil I have to think that the likelihood of getting killed is much higher.

Well consider that maybe they don't know anything is wrong, or that things are different anywhere else in the world. Brazilians probably know about as much about america as we do about Brazil. Money is probably a big motivation too. Better to make your money walking a beat and shooting at criminals than wasting away sewing soccer balls.

[poopoo333]

Thoughts on Jorgensen/Barao?

[MMA_scientist]

Thoughts on Jorgensen/Barao?

Barao is a little overrated atm IMO. I was on his badwagon in the very beginning, but I think his hype is a little out of proportion to his skill at this point IMO. I think it will be a close fight, but ultimately, I think Jorgenson will win a decision.

[SPX]

Well consider that maybe they don't know anything is wrong, or that things are different anywhere else in the world. Brazilians probably know about as much about america as we do about Brazil. Money is probably a big motivation too. Better to make your money walking a beat and shooting at criminals than wasting away sewing soccer balls.

I think they know a lot more about the US than we know about Brazil if only because of movies.

[Luke]

while Maia and Nog are playboys.

By that you mean they had running water.

[Luke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4D0TTNBPYE&amp;feature=share

[Ludo]

I think they know a lot more about the US than we know about Brazil if only because of movies.

That means they know about the US that exists in film, which isn't very accurate.

[SPX]

Well that's still more than most Americans know about Brazil. . .

[Luke]

Well that's still more than most Americans know about Brazil. . .

I for one learned a lot from Fast Five

[Ludo]

Well that's still more than most Americans know about Brazil. . .

Name one single popular american film that could have taught them more about us than City of God taught us about them.

[zY|]

City of God is so real.

[AC88]

I think Diaz takes this even though I'd much rather see Condit win. UGH.

[edman5555]

Becomnig a cop is a good idea. You can make money and a pension.

[SPX]

And die.

[Luke]

And die.

I thought you were telling edmannn to "DIE." I was like " oh no lets not start 2012 this way."

BLOZER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ludo]

Becomnig a cop is a good idea. You can make money and a pension.


And die.

It doesn't look like it's terribly likely that being a cop will directly lead to your death. There are something like 800,000 law enforcement personnel in the country as of 2006 and statistics show that every 54 hours one of them will die, but about 56% of those are traffic accidents. So about 163 officers die annually but about 91 of those are traffic related. The odds are actually in your favor depending on the area your in.

[SPX]

What I was really saying was that I feel like if you want to be a cop then you need a good reason to do it. Don't just sign up because you need a job and you're not really qualified to do something else. Sign up because you genuinely have that personality type where you want to protect and serve.

[poopoo333]

Matt Riddle Replaces Amir Sadollah (http://www.amazon.com/s?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=amir%20sadollah) against Jorge Lopez @ UFC 143.

[mike]

Riddle should be able to win that with wrestling control unless he goes stupid and tries to strike.

[poopoo333]

Really liking Diaz in this fight. I think Diaz will outbox Condit if this stays on the feet. I also think Condit might come to grapple and we might see a bit of work against the cage from Condit trying to get Diaz down. I expect Condit to throw lots of kicks (most likely leg kicks) during the fight like Santos did effectively. I wonder if Diaz will try and take Condit down at all? I wish I could have jumped on Diaz @-105

[mike]

I like COndit but I bet Cerrone against the other Diaz too and paid for it. I guess the Diaz brothers boxing style works really well in MMA. COndit should def mix tds into his game plan. I have to rewatch a few condit fights to see how good his head movement is.

[poopoo333]

Roy Nelson/Fabricio Werdum...how does this play out?

[MMA_scientist]

Roy Nelson/Fabricio Werdum...how does this play out?

To me, this is a lot like Maia/Weidman. Roy is not as good, but he has the takedown edge, and he is probably good enough to not get subbed. It is close standing IMO, and while Werdum won't take any damage on the mat, he may lose a decision while playing on bottom. Werdum may be able to get Roy down, but probably not, and really Werdum does his best work from guard anyway.

Basically, Werdum is better, but if Roy plays the takedown to score game, he could win a decision. That said, there is always the possibility that Werdum catches Roy or Roy clips Werdum with a big shot. I think Werdum will win the striking exchanges, but Roy could definitely land a big shot and change the whole thing.

[Vandelay]

Hopefully Roy opens as a dog.

[MMA_scientist]

I will probably take Werdum to even as a slight favorite. If Roy gets to something like +170, I will have to take him instead.

[poopoo333]

I will take Roy as a dog after looking at the fight a bit. Big Country has the betters TDs, and Werdum will probably be too content off of his back. (I basically just said what Scientist said). I think Roy will just keep moving forward and clinching with Werdum and throwing big shots inside. Is Werdum a better wrestler than Mir? Mir was able to take Roy down a lot from the clinch, but then again..Mir is the more athletic, bigger, explosive guy compared to Werdum. imo this fight has potential to be a real snoozer

[poopoo333]

Looking at Pierce/Koscheck...Pierce could win that imo. They will both probably stand, and I see Pierce getting the better of the exchanges. Hughes was boxing Koscheck up before he got his head punched off. I may be overrating Pierce's striking though. Not sure if Koscheck or Pierce can get either down and keep them there to significantly sway the outcome of the fight.

[edman5555]

I will take Roy as a dog after looking at the fight a bit. Big Country has the betters TDs, and Werdum will probably be too content off of his back. (I basically just said what Scientist said). I think Roy will just keep moving forward and clinching with Werdum and throwing big shots inside. Is Werdum a better wrestler than Mir? Mir was able to take Roy down a lot from the clinch, but then again..Mir is the more athletic, bigger, explosive guy compared to Werdum. imo this fight has potential to be a real snoozer

Why do you think Roy has better takedowns that Werdum? I don't get that.

[edman5555]

Looking at Pierce/Koscheck...Pierce could win that imo. They will both probably stand, and I see Pierce getting the better of the exchanges. Hughes was boxing Koscheck up before he got his head punched off. I may be overrating Pierce's striking though. Not sure if Koscheck or Pierce can get either down and keep them there to significantly sway the outcome of the fight.

Koscheck has power in the standup. Pierce doesn't seem to have too much power. I will definetly have to lean towards kos in this one.

[edman5555]

I take it back, Pierce can win. Flip flop.

[Vandelay]

lol. Koschecks striking blows and pierce has a chin. So it comes down to whether or not koscheck tries to take the fight to the floor and if he can actually succeed in doing so.

[Luke]

Fight will probably loo a lot like Hendricks-Pierce with Pierce coming up just a bit short again.

[poopoo333]

8:00 PM


24155
ROY NELSON
PK-115




24156
FABRICIO WERDUM
PK-115







7:30 PM


24159
MIKE PIERCE
PK+160




24160
JOSH KOSCHECK
PK-210







7:15 PM


24163
SCOTT JORGENSEN
PK+175




24164
RENAN BARAO
PK-235







7:15 PM


24167
CLIFFORD STARKS
PK+150




24168
ED HERMAN
PK-200

[Vandelay]

I like pierce and Nelson at plus odds.

[edman5555]

max holloway is a very inexperienced figher taking his fight against dustin poirier on short notice.

[edman5555]

stephen thompson is a black belt in brazilian jiu jitsu and apparently the brother in law of carlos machado. On top of that he is a kickboxing champion...

[edman5555]

IWS POLL: Who is the better striker, Nick or Carlos Condit???

[poopoo333]

Nick.

[Thewisemann]

Diaz

[zY|]

Nick Diaz is the overall more effective striker, but if you want to blow somebody up with a huge hook or a flying knee, Carlos is your man.

[Ludo]

Nick has the ability to overwhelm anyone, especially after a round or two with the pace he puts on. But when someone absolutely has to die and when time is an issue, Condit gets the nod. Though barring the big shot, which is certainly possible, I think Nick takes the standing portion of this fight through persistence and pressure.

[mike]

stephen thompson is a black belt in brazilian jiu jitsu and apparently the brother in law of carlos machado. On top of that he is a kickboxing champion...

how good is his TDD ? because his opponent looks like a strong ground guy.
I saw the Hollaway highlight and even though he's inexperience, but you can tell he's a tough mofo with good cardio. Maybe even has the edge in striking over Poirier. Not sure if he can stop Poirier from taking him down though. And I think Carlos will win the striking vs Nick Diaz.

[edman5555]

My only worry about betting Nick is that he likes to take shots to the face and Carlos hits really hard.

[Mr. IWS]

Nick Diaz

[Vandelay]

surprising to see the love for koscheck in this fight. Keep driving the line up. I'd love to get pierce t plus 275-300

[MMA_scientist]

Why is Ed Herman going to beat Starks?

[trotterz]

I'd like to play on starks and hedge on herman by sub.

[BIGDAY]

I agree, Herman due for a let down.

As for Kos's fight, if Kos gameplans correctly, the fight should easily be his imo.

[MMA_scientist]

I have Kos winning too, but his striking defense is not great, he could get caught standing which is why it is scary at those odds. Although, with GSP on the outs, Kos may have a renewed fire to get some wins in and not just "be exciting."

[Ludo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8RjeykTmzE&feature=player_embedded

[MMA_scientist]

^ LMAO.

Office Space is timeless comedy.

[Ludo]

Why yes, yes it is.

[Luke]

My only worry about betting Nick is that he likes to take shots to the face and Carlos hits really hard.


Daley hits harder than Condit and he was able to recover from those shots.

[poopoo333]

Nelson is at +120, will it get better or worse?

[poopoo333]

Damn..Diaz's line is getting shitty

[poopoo333]

Just threw 1u on Diaz/Condit goes distance +125.

[poopoo333]

Going on my 4th straight post, all edman like

2u on Roy Nelson @+120...glad I got him as the underdog

[MMA_scientist]

SPX, are you getting a rock hard boner just thinking about this guy making his UFC debut this weekend?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Thompson_(fighter)

Chuck Norris's fight league CHAMPION! 56-0 karate master. Deal with it.

Seriously, I hope he has some TD defense, because I would like to see what he can do.

[Svino]

Chuck Norris's fight league CHAMPION! 56-0 karate master. Deal with it.

Seriously, I hope he has some TD defense, because I would like to see what he can do.

The UFC will probably feed him strikers for 4 or so fights to build him up. Then he'll have to fight Koscheck or Fitch or Hendricks and get horribly exposed. Then he'll miss weight or take a swing at another fighter after the bell and Dana will use that as an excuse to cut him.

[mike]

lines are out on bmaker.

[Luke]

lines are out on bmaker.


thank you sir

[Luke]

6:00 PM


MAX HOLLOWAY
PK+285
-
-


DUSTIN POIRIER
PK-435
-
-







5:00 PM


HENRY MARTINEZ
PK+255
-
-


MATT RIDDLE
PK-325
-
-







5:00 PM


ALEX CACERES
PK+135
-
-


EDWIN FIGUEROA
PK-165
-
-







5:00 PM


CHRIS COPE
PK+245
-
-


MATT BROWN
PK-315
-
-





UFC-143 PRELIMINARY CARD -UFC/FACEBOOK- $250 LIMIT


4:00 PM


DAN STITTGEN
PK+195
-
-


STEPHEN THOMPSON
PK-255
-
-

[Luke]

MICHAEL KUIPER
PK+200
-
-


RAFAEL NATAL
PK-260
-

[Ludo]

Wow. If only I had a Bookmaker account I would smash the shit out of Figueroa's line. Caceres is only getting some love because he put the hurt on Cole Escovedo.

[mike]

Figueroa is a slugger with a not so impressive ground game. Reinhart took him down once or twice and Reinhart is the worst can of cans. If Caceres go for takedown, I think he wins. Standing, he is not a fish out of water either. He is also fighting at 145 now, right? instead of 155.

[MMA_scientist]

Caceres is better than I thought he was.

After seeing how good Jim Hettes is and how well he did with Escovedo, I had to re-think my original position on Caceres (that he was terrible, didn't belong, would go 0-3 and be gone forever).

[MMA_scientist]

That karate guy is a bjj blackbelt. Someone already said that I guess...

The guy he is fighting is some kind of submission specialist, but it looks like the karate guy could be a real badass. It might be our one and only chance to get this kid at less than -500 for the foreseeable future. I am going to try to find some vids on him and his opponent.

[MMA_scientist]

Reading that his bjj blackbelt is not real, and that he has pretty limited ground skills. Also his kickboxing record does not reflect reality. Going so stay away and see how it goes.

[mike]

where can i that, scientist? if thats true, theres a great chance of an upset here

[Thewisemann]

Thoughts on Jorgenson +200?

[Vandelay]

Ill be all over diaz/condit fotn at plus odds.

[Vandelay]

Ill probably throw a unit on Jorgensen. Dont really expect him to win, but he should be able to hold his own on the feet long enough to get a takedown and stall.

[MMA_scientist]

where can i that, scientist? if thats true, theres a great chance of an upset here

I read it in the comments on the UFC forum. I will try to find the link. Does not mean anything, some random poster on the internet saying his brother in law gave him his bjj bb in order to help him get in the UFC, and that he has shown blue belt level skills- maybe it is true, probably not. But apparently he was KO'd in the WCL as well, so his undefeated record is just a flat out lie.

His opponent does submit people, so it makes me a little nervous. I might put him in a small parlay: Koscheck/Stephens/Riddle/Poirier is +220. I might do that.

I am probably going to do Poirier for sure, but I am trying to find something else to go with it.

[poopoo333]

Ill be all over diaz/condit fotn at plus odds.

Yeah, it will probably be +200, +250 at best though

[poopoo333]

I was thinking..with the UFC expansion/more shows...there are going to be a lot of new fighters we know nothing about. We should probably start getting research done early on these fighters...as we might get good lines on them before they become a little more known.

[MMA_scientist]

Thoughts on Jorgenson +200?

I think he can win. I like it.

Barao has been dominant lately, but he has also been in some pretty close scraps, but usually manages to get a submission (I think he was actually losing to Leone before he pulled off the sub). @+200, its worth a play IMO. He will probably lose, but he has a definite path to victory IMO.

[trotterz]

I read it in the comments on the UFC forum. I will try to find the link. Does not mean anything, some random poster on the internet saying his brother in law gave him his bjj bb in order to help him get in the UFC, and that he has shown blue belt level skills- maybe it is true, probably not. But apparently he was KO'd in the WCL as well, so his undefeated record is just a flat out lie.

His opponent does submit people, so it makes me a little nervous. I might put him in a small parlay: Koscheck/Stephens/Riddle/Poirier is +220. I might do that.

I am probably going to do Poirier for sure, but I am trying to find something else to go with it.

talking about Poirier, there was also a video of him getting knocked out on youtube ... looked like a regional show ... don't know why it is not on his record, maybe it was an amateur fight.

[Vandelay]

Yeah, it will probably be +200, +250 at best though

I don't really see any1 else getting it. It rarely goes to undercard guys unless all the main fights suck. That leaves 5 main card bouts. It wont be going to werdum/nelson or koscheck/pierce or Herman/starks. That leaves barao/jorgensen as the main comp. And in that fight there is a good chance it is either one sided or a lay n pray.

[MMA_scientist]

Condit/Diaz is almost guaranteed to bring the violence. I never bet FOTN props, but I think I am going to put something small on that, because... it damn near has to win it.

[MMA_scientist]

Upon further review, Stephen Thompson is not a bjj blackbelt. He has done the classic switcheroo on his website and fooled wikipedia and many others.

http://www.wonderboymma.com/

"Stepen is a blackbelt in juijitsu. Stephen is currently studying brazilian jiu jitsu under Carlos Machado..." So... he's a whitebelt. Whoever said blue belt skills is probably pretty accurate. No bet. Hopefully we get to see him standing for while.

[poopoo333]

http://forum.sbrforum.com/boxing-mma-ufc-betting/1548707-seriously-how-do-you-guys-feel-about-nelson-vs-werdum-fight.html


I have met Werdum plenty of times and have seen him train alot here in Huntington Beach lately.

Here's some inside Info: Werdum is not 100%. He is Injured. His Knee is NOT 100% AT ALL. He's not training his MT 100% training with soft guys and his lateral movement is slacking. BUT HE IS NOT A UFC FIGHTER YET HE CAN'T BOW OUT OF THIS ONE HE IS COMING FROM STRIKEFORCE SO HE'S TAKING IT NO MATTER WHAT INJURED OR NOT.


I wonder if that is true.

[trotterz]

Caceres is better than I thought he was.

After seeing how good Jim Hettes is and how well he did with Escovedo, I had to re-think my original position on Caceres (that he was terrible, didn't belong, would go 0-3 and be gone forever).

There is no way that caceres wins ITD ...

So I will play on both...
Figueroa @ -140 is nice ... and then on caceres by decision when the line gets out

[MMA_scientist]

There is no way that caceres wins ITD ...

Caceres has a decent triangle choke.

[SPX]

"Stepen is a blackbelt in juijitsu. Stephen is currently studying brazilian jiu jitsu under Carlos Machado..." So... he's a whitebelt.

Why does that mean he's a white belt? It doesn't specify what rank he holds.

I haven't heard of this guy, but to answer your question you posed earlier in the thread, yeah I'm excited about it.

Dug up a few vids from his WCL days:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T444hPPvy-g



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcvATLQtsNw

[zY|]

He counters well, but he's quite sloppy, throwing wild kicks with his hands down.

LOL at Doc Hamilton and Cecil Peoples.

[Luke]

http://forum.sbrforum.com/boxing-mma-ufc-betting/1548707-seriously-how-do-you-guys-feel-about-nelson-vs-werdum-fight.html



I wonder if that is true.

Are you for real?

[edman5555]

Upon further review, Stephen Thompson is not a bjj blackbelt. He has done the classic switcheroo on his website and fooled wikipedia and many others.

http://www.wonderboymma.com/

"Stepen is a blackbelt in juijitsu. Stephen is currently studying brazilian jiu jitsu under Carlos Machado..." So... he's a whitebelt. Whoever said blue belt skills is probably pretty accurate. No bet. Hopefully we get to see him standing for while.

I think he is a black belt in japanese jiu jitsu

[SPX]

LOL at Doc Hamilton and Cecil Peoples.

I love how CP was fucking shit up even back in the WCL.

"Foul! One point over here!"

"For WHAT?!"

"Oh, sorry, sorry, my mistake . . ." switches his hands "Holding . . . one point over here."

[Luke]

Are you for real?


And negged for two-timing us ....................

[Ludo]

I love how CP was fucking shit up even back in the WCL.

"Foul! One point over here!"

"For WHAT?!"

"Oh, sorry, sorry, my mistake . . ." switches his hands "Holding . . . one point over here."


http://vimeo.com/25433213

[SPX]

BOL. Anyone know what was actually going on there?

[Ludo]

BOL. Anyone know what was actually going on there?

Apparently it was a riot in 89 at a muay thai tournament. All hell breaks loose and Cecil Peoples(who was reffing) actually fought his way out with a chair and stabbed someone in the face repeatedly with a pen.

[SPX]

Imagine eavesdropping on a conversation between two fans. A hardcore fan tells his buddy about an up-and-coming prospect in South Carolina who racked up an incredible 53-0-0-1 record in kickboxing. He won nearly every single amateur kickboxing title on the planet, and now he's making his way into the sport of mixed martial arts. You palm a smirk.

"His takedown defense is probably terrible, and he'll get owned on the ground with no experience in the grappling department. He'll fail," says Steve, your casual fan friend whose favorite fighter is Kimbo Slice. Steve wouldn't be off base with his comments however. It's difficult for anyone to believe a world-class kickboxer can succeed without some sort of background in the grappling arts.

Luckily, 28-year-old Stephen Thompson (5-0) is well-versed on the ground, practicing Tetsushin Ryu Jiu-Jitsu under his brother-in-law, none other than legendary grappler Carlos Machado. If that weren't enough, his thirty-two knockouts on the amateur kickboxing circuit and #1 ranking during his days in the World Combat League suggest he was a prodigy talent in the striking arts at a young age. Add twenty-four years of experience and a bevy of world-class training partners such as Georges St. Pierre (http://www.sbnation.com/mma/fighter/122591/georges-st-pierre) and Rashad Evans (http://www.sbnation.com/mma/fighter/122510/rashad-evans) to the mix, and you've got a fighter with loads of potential.

There is some mystery surrounding Thompson's progression, mainly due to the lack of footage of MMA action, but from secondary accounts I've been able to gather - there is a buzz surrounding Thompson. Most fans who've seen him in action agree that he has the goods to make an eventual run at a top-tier promotion, and they've even likened his style to that of Lyoto Machida (http://www.sbnation.com/mma/fighter/122516/lyoto-machida).

Thompson's credentials are awe-inspiring, and the fanatical fan deep inside of us wants to proclaim him the next prodigy. But we're realists, and Thompson has a lot to prove moving forward. Specifically, his strength of competition isn't great, nor is he fighting enough to warrant an immediate move to the UFC or Bellator. The next step is the tougher competition that awaits him in a larger regional promotion. If he can past the test there with flying colors, Thompson will get the attention he deserves and make waves by the end of the year.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/1/4/2680635/stephen-thompson-mma-world-mma-welterweight-scouting-report

[SPX]

What I was able to find about Tetsushin Ryu Jiu-Jitsu:

. . . a combination of Japanese Jiu-Jitsu, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and emphasizes defending against opponents with the use of leverage, off-balancing, redirection, joint manipulating techniques, and submission holds to render an opponent harmless. Jiu-Jitsu teaches self defense orientated techniques and focuses on ground grappling. Jiu-Jitsu also combines effective leg kicks, striking, with throws, and takedowns. Jiu-Jitsu is 20% long range skills, 30% short range skills and 50% ground grappling skills.

[SPX]

Stephen Thompson promo. . .



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw3Bm18gaR0

[MMA_scientist]

I think he is a black belt in japanese jiu jitsu

Yeah. A white belt in actually knowing how to grapple.

There are a handful of actual skilled JJJ practitioners... but 99.9% of the time, it is absolute garbage. Probably more like 99.99%

[MMA_scientist]

I am going to be traveling tomorrow, be out of town for the weekend. GL on the event. I am not going to bet anything other than my submission prop plays... if they come out in time.

[Mr. IWS]

I am going to be traveling tomorrow, be out of town for the weekend. GL on the event. I am not going to bet anything other than my submission prop plays... if they come out in time.

::handshake::

[poopoo333]

If condit/diaz fotn is +300 or better I am gonna throw 3u on it

[ctm0808]

If condit/diaz fotn is +300 or better I am gonna throw 3u on it

Not a chance this is +300, I would absolutely unload on that. Penn/Diaz fotn odds ended up at +125..

[poopoo333]

Matt Riddle is fighting a guy that usually fights @ FW and LW...this is a WW fight.

[Luke]

Matt Riddle is fighting a guy that usually fights @ FW and LW...this is a WW fight.


And he's taking the fight on short notice .

[poopoo333]

And he's taking the fight on short notice .

Yeah...real short notice too, right? Like a week or less?

[Luke]

Yeah...real short notice too, right? Like a week or less?


He just fought Jan. 21st so I doubt he knew about the fight until way after that .So that would give him a maximum of 14 days notice. The articles saying he was in were published the 30th but I do not know if that's when he found out or not.

[poopoo333]

When are these damn full prop bets going to come out?

[poopoo333]

Not a chance this is +300, I would absolutely unload on that. Penn/Diaz fotn odds ended up at +125..

yea..+150 on bookmaker

[Vandelay]

good enough for me. Do they limit these to 100?

[poopoo333]

good enough for me. Do they limit these to 100?

Not sure...did you try and find out? I am waiting to see what 5dimes releases it at

[poopoo333]

Just tried....it was only a 50 dollar limit on bookmaker

[Vandelay]

Meant to say i dont have bm. Wondered if 5d limits to 100, which I believe they do.

[Vandelay]

I liked it when the props were released the week of the fights, not the day of or day b4.

[Vandelay]

Anyone have any opinion on the undercard fights?

Kupier may be a solid bet. He has abv avg offensive striking, below avg defense, aggressive, below avg takedown d, decent scrambles and subs. Natal looked good in the Bradley fight and thats the only fight I have seen of him.

Poirer should handle Holloway. most likely by taking him down.

Thompsons the hyped prospect but havent seen either guy fight.

Not touching Matt brown vs Cope. Would pick brown tho.

Not touching Riddle vs Martinez.

Might take Caceres at underdog odds.

[Vandelay]

nelson/werdum props out. I took not werdum inside distance. the -2450 line of not nelson was a little too high for me.

[trotterz]

not pierce by sub is out to ... aroun -2200

[Luke]

Weigh-ins start in 2 minutes on Fuel

[Ludo]

Matt Riddle is fighting a fucking dwarf.

[MMA_scientist]

I saw that, but reading that he is pretty good. Riddle kind of sucks, but he is huge. If heas -250 instead of -350 i would prob donit

[MMA_scientist]

Damn i cant type on this tning

[Ludo]

I saw that, but reading that he is pretty good. Riddle kind of sucks, but he is huge. If heas -250 instead of -350 i would prob donit

I put Riddle in a parlay. While Martinez might be pretty good he's only been fighting in what amounts to local shows put on by his own camp. I find it hard to believe that his three fights in the "Jacksons MMA Series" weren't favorable matchups.

I just think his first fight at 170 when he spent his career at 145 and 155 and just fought less than two weeks ago. There's no way to fight at your optimal weight and then two weeks later fight 15lbs heavier and still have the same kind of conditioning. There's no time to peak in that short a span. He's basically coming in dry here because I'm betting he took at least a few days off to relax, eat, hang around and let the aches and pains go away.

Riddle knew he was fighting on February 4th, he may not have known who his opponent would be but I'm betting he was counting on fighting someone in his own weight class. I just think he'll be too strong for Martinez.

[MMA_scientist]

Oh i agree. Riddle is at a massive advantage. I just dont good about the line, given that riddle isnt that good imo

[Ludo]

Oh i agree. Riddle is at a massive advantage. I just dont good about the line, given that riddle isnt that good imo

I feel you there. Thats why I put him in a small parlay with Barao and Poirier.

[Luke]

Diaz/Condit FOTN -105 ......BOL

[SPX]

I'm thinking Werdum is going to beat Roy.