UFC on Fox 2

[Mr. IWS]

All in on Chael. I had a chubby when I heard this fight was going down.

[MMA_scientist]

I really wish I had Bodog. I would have unloaded on Maia. WTF at that line. A lot of people think Maia beat Munoz (self included) he could be one fight away from a 2nd title shot. And Weidman is taking a HUGE step in competition here, on short notice. Maia is down to +175, and I still find that absolutely ridiculous.

[MMA_scientist]

A lot of Weidman's hype comes from his closely contested ADCC match with Galvao. He matched up will with Galvao, but in that same ADCC:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDZSCnkGrAQ


Swept at :44

Tapped out with a beauty of a flying armbar @ 1:25

Maia can definitely tap this kid. Not that he will, but it can definitely happen. The problem is that Maia has all but abandoned his guard game. He pretty much always goes for the half guard underhook to single leg. It is really hard to reverse a wrestler with that particular sweep, since it is also a really common position in wrestling (whizzer, dogfight).

[Thewisemann]

Apparently Palhares turned down the fight with Maia.

[MMA_scientist]

I would think he would need more than 10 days to get ready for one of the biggest fights of his career. It is also a tough style match-up, it would have been dumb to take teh fight and possibly kill his momentum. He is going to get a big fight in his next outing either way.

[Thewisemann]

I agree, Maia is a horrible fight for anyone to take on short notice. And Palhares should get a big fight his next time out. Weidman really has nothing to lose here.

[MMA_scientist]

Yeah, Weidman is still in thr "prospect' stage... so I can see why he would take it. He gets to fight a top 5 MW on national TV. A win and he is in the title picture. A loss, no one will care.

The funny thing, i was reading the comments on BE, and every one seems to agree that it is too much too soon for Weidman. I don't get how that line is holding. I expected Maia to come in around -140. He really doesn't get any respect from the books. He was a dog to Munoz too.

[Mr. IWS]

A lot of Weidman's hype comes from his closely contested ADCC match with Galvao. He matched up will with Galvao, but in that same ADCC:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDZSCnkGrAQ


Swept at :44

Tapped out with a beauty of a flying armbar @ 1:25

Maia can definitely tap this kid. Not that he will, but it can definitely happen. The problem is that Maia has all but abandoned his guard game. He pretty much always goes for the half guard underhook to single leg. It is really hard to reverse a wrestler with that particular sweep, since it is also a really common position in wrestling (whizzer, dogfight).

Nice!

[Svino]

Apparently Palhares turned down the fight with Maia.

Maybe he restarted his roid regimen too soon after UFC 142.

[MMA_scientist]

Maybe he restarted his roid regimen too soon after UFC 142.

Probably that too. It is a fact that they all take roids. Even Roger is on roids. Braulio told me (well not me, but I was in the room) that he and Roger messed around with HGH. I am pretty sure Maia is on the juice. I have pretty much lost faith that there are any fighters that are not taking PEDs. Strangely, I think there is a connection between MJ use and not using PEDs. I seriously doubt Diaz uses roids. We know BJ is clean. So there you go, connection=causality.

[edman5555]

Hgh is cool

[Luke]

If that is the line, I will be on Bisping. Sonnen won't finish him, but Miller was able to get a takedown on Bisping, so I have to thing that Sonnen is going to take him down whenever he wants. Bisping is better than Stann off his back and has better TDD. At +300, I will take it.

.


Still waiting for part of how he's going to win.

[edman5555]

Yeah I don't see bisping winning

[MMA_scientist]

Bisping is hard to take down and also big. It is not like Sonnen has never been stiffed before. Jebus, the Sonnen hype is just out of control...

[mike]

I think Sonnen is gonna stand and KTFO Bisping.

[poopoo333]

I think if Sonnen was able to take a big wrestler Okami down at will, he will be able to take Bisping down. Bisping won't be able to throw effective kicks, Sonnen is amazing at catching them and getting the TD off of them. Bisping will not win a decision, his only shot in this fight imo is a sub or a flash KO. Bet on Sonnen, hedge with Bisping ITD if the lines are good enough

[poopoo333]

Not sure if Weidman can duplicate Munoz's performance (in a fight I scored for Maia when I watched it). He isn't aggressive enough that I have seen. So if this ends up being a grappling match, Maia has the edge in overall grappling, just not wrestling, right?

[Thewisemann]

Don't even hedge, Sonnen is gonna own Bispings ass

[poopoo333]

Don't even hedge, Sonnen is gonna own Bispings ass

Truth.


I am hoping Sonnen gets down to like -325, but highly doubtful.


Anybody confident either way with Rashad/Davis? I think Davis can use his length to keep Rashad at bay and avoid getting out boxed badly on the feet. I also think Davis will be able to stuff Rashad and will be able to get a TD if he wants it. imo Davis is the better wrestler of the two

[Thewisemann]

I like Evans quite a bit here. I bet 1.5u on him, only reason I didn't go bigger is because Davis is a young fighter and still improving.

[SPX]

I am hoping Sonnen gets down to like -325, but highly doubtful.


Looks to me like the line is going the other way.

I'll probably end up with Sonnen in a parlay.

[Mr. IWS]

Bisping is hard to take down and also big. It is not like Sonnen has never been stiffed before. Jebus, the Sonnen hype is just out of control...

Repent while you can. Chael for IWS Admin!



Don't even hedge, Sonnen is gonna own Bispings ass

Yes!


Truth.

Anybody confident either way with Rashad/Davis? I think Davis can use his length to keep Rashad at bay and avoid getting out boxed badly on the feet. I also think Davis will be able to stuff Rashad and will be able to get a TD if he wants it. imo Davis is the better wrestler of the two


I love Rashad here. This is a big step up for Davis, and I think Rashad will have Davis guessing the entire fight jumping in and out similar to what he did against Rampage, and I also think that Rashad will mix in some takedowns (yeah, I know Davis is a better wrestler), and do enough to win a decision.

[poopoo333]

“Chael’s biggest weapon is his mouth – but this ain’t no kissing contest and he isn’t going to talk me to death. Unlucky for him he can’t hurt me with his mouth in the Octagon and I am going to crush him. I’m in my prime and this is my time…
[H]is wrestling skills will be on point, I’m going to get the best Chael Sonnen possible, I know that. But his jiu-jitsu wont be too slick. Chael Sonnen can take me down if he likes, because I know I can submit him off my back. I know I can. That’s his big weakness. I may not have a black belt, but I consider myself a black belt. I’ve been rolling with Jake Shields, Dean Lister and a wash of other world champions. Believe me, if Chael Sonnen takes me down he better be prepared to get submitted.
Working with these guys recently, these top level jiu-jitsu guys, has really brought on my game and I am so comfortable on my back right now. In the past I have stood fights up a lot but the way I am training right now, I will be delighted if Chael takes me down. If he does, then it will be a short night for him.”



....

[Luke]

Bisping is hard to take down and also big. It is not like Sonnen has never been stiffed before. Jebus, the Sonnen hype is just out of control...

BOL!!!!!!!!!!!! This coming from the guy that thinks Palhares is going to be champ. The guy has never even beat anyone in the top 20 in his weight class.

......And the Sonnen hype is out of control.....

[edman5555]

I like Evans quite a bit here. I bet 1.5u on him, only reason I didn't go bigger is because Davis is a young fighter and still improving.

Tito rushed Rashad and got the TD. Rashad is good but he also has a bit of a hypetrain. That said, he looks like he is now on roids. Maybe he is scared of Bones Jones. Either way, Phil is pretty damn good. He can definetly win this one.

[edman5555]

Ya know I actually wouldn't be completely shocked to see Bisping submit him. Slightly shocked but now completely astonished.

[poopoo333]

Who is the better striker? Maia or Weidman?

[Mr. IWS]

Maybe he is scared of Bones Jones.

I think its the opposite.

[Thewisemann]

Did Tito get a takedown in the 2nd fight?

[Vandelay]

Did Tito get a takedown in the 2nd fight?

yes, albeit it wasnt for very long.

[SPX]

He did, briefly, right at the beginning of the 1st round.

[MMA_scientist]

Not sure if Weidman can duplicate Munoz's performance (in a fight I scored for Maia when I watched it). He isn't aggressive enough that I have seen. So if this ends up being a grappling match, Maia has the edge in overall grappling, just not wrestling, right?

I THINK so... but who knows. Maia's grappling hasn't looked good and Weidman is probably not going to be scared to grapple with him. He is good on the ground too. I think Maia will be ahead, but if Weidman gets on top, he very well may be able to keep Maia there and move around enough to not get stood up. Supposedly he taps Serra out all the time.

[MMA_scientist]

TAnybody confident either way with Rashad/Davis? I think Davis can use his length to keep Rashad at bay and avoid getting out boxed badly on the feet. I also think Davis will be able to stuff Rashad and will be able to get a TD if he wants it. imo Davis is the better wrestler of the two

I like Davis, but not confident. i am confident enough to bet it @ +odds, but I feel it is a close fight with Davis having more tools and Rashad having more experience and power. Davis has never been in a tough fight yet, he has never been in trouble at all really. But that's what I kept saying about Jones. I am not making that mistake again, and I am betting the bigger badder wrestler.

[MMA_scientist]

BOL!!!!!!!!!!!! This coming from the guy that thinks Palhares is going to be champ. The guy has never even beat anyone in the top 20 in his weight class.

......And the Sonnen hype is out of control.....

When did I ever say Palhares would be champ? If I ever said that, it was a joke. Though I don't rule it out, I do think Palhares would mangle Sonnen. I said Munoz would be champ. I still believe.

[SPX]

I THINK so... but who knows.

You're the resident grappling expert, so you need to get your shit together. Otherwise, what good are you?

[MMA_scientist]

You're the resident grappling expert, so you need to get your shit together. Otherwise, what good are you?

Maia would probably win a grappling match, but Weidman appears to be some sort of choke and guard passing savant. I will be betting Maia, but honestly, either guy could win IMO. Weidman probably has to win a decision though, whereas Maia could finish. I will be pretty heavy on Maia because I think the line is way off.

[poopoo333]

I'll probably end up with Sonnen in a parlay.

Same...who are you looking at to parlay him with? There is nobody that I am real confident in to parlay him with...perhaps Evan Dunham?

Anybody have thoughts on Russow/J.O.E? The only thing I am sure of is that this is going to be a sloppy looking fight.

[SPX]

Dunham would definitely be my first pick. If the odds are still shitty after that then maybe a three way orgy between Sonnen, Dunham and Roller.

[edman5555]

http://www.allthebestfights.com/guillard-vs-miller-full-fight-video-ufc-on-fx/

this site seems to have all the fights for those that also missed them.

Barry is going to lose to anyone that can def take him down.

[edman5555]

I just put 3u on Maia. I think he has the edge in jitsu, standup and experience. Weidman has to win a top control decision IMO to get this one. Anyone disagree?

[edman5555]

Demian should obviously be the favorite. I would probably go 4u if I had more than 10u in my bankroll.

[Luke]

Think you guys are giving Maia's striking way too much credit.

[edman5555]

Yeah its not great but he's been able to hang in there with everyone he's fought except for marquardt. I figure his striking is better than weidmans. Who have we seen weidman strike with? Having no striking experience has to put him behind maia. At least maia has been training for years.

[Thewisemann]

I slightly favor Maia to win. Weidman took this fight on very short notice as well. But, he strikes me as the type of fighter who stays in shape, but Maia is not the kind of guy you wanna fight on s couple weekday notice.

[poopoo333]

I would have taken Lentz @+265

[Vandelay]

kinda like einemo to take this one.

[edman5555]

Eeny Meeno Miny Mo

[Luke]

Since everyone else is lazy


http://www.bestfightodds.com/events/482.png

[SPX]

Dunham's line = gay.

[edman5555]

I think I agree with you about Einemo

[Vandelay]

I think he is a better striker, better on the ground, and could probably stuff Russows takedowns if he wants to. He may tire when pushed tho. I cant log into 5d to bet it anyway. So hopefully line improves.

[edman5555]

yeah he is a really big guy. He could have a solid reach advantage. His striking is sloppy IMO. Rossow is no Ali though.

[SPX]

At the current odds, Einemo has to be the play, I think.

[poopoo333]

How can you bet against this guy?

http://www.shrani.si/f/2U/Lr/1Quon1yN/hammer-rus.gif

[Vandelay]

JOE is no duffee. plus russow was subbed by sergei and sergei isnt exactly the best grappler.

[mike]

im leaning einemo too but his gas tank looked poor last time he fought.

[poopoo333]

I have no opinion on this fight anyways, I was just kidding about the hammerfist of death. Two fat HWs that suck is my breakdown of the fight

[poopoo333]

Bisping blog:

Bisping: I'll beat Sonnen. Bet on it

I'm now 1/3 through my training camp to fight Chael Sonnen for the No. 1 contender's spot for the UFC middleweight title, as hilarious as that sounds. But that's what happens when you accept a change of opponent on 10 days notice. In one week, I will be weighing in for the 185-pound UFC On FOX fight in Chicago.





I am under no illusions as to the task I've got on my hands next Saturday. No one else in the division wants to fight Chael Sonnen, and sure as hell no one else would have taken the fight at this kind of notice against him. The guy is a beast, let's be honest. He's a great wrestler, no question, but what makes him so dangerous is his physical and mental strength, his will to win and the fact he's a tough mofo!

His standup isn't great and his Brazilian jiu-jitsu is average, but he makes up for all that with being so tough and relentless. That's really what makes Chael one of the best fighters in the world — his will to win and his toughness.

That said, his Achilles' heel is submissions. He's tough as nails, but for some reason he taps out pretty quickly. That's a weird contradiction in him. Yes, he's looked outstanding of late — beating Brian Stann, Yushin Okami, human pin-cushion Nate Marquardt and obviously dominating Anderson Silva for four rounds — but he's not invincible. He has lost 11 times. He has weaknesses in his game like anyone else.

There are no easy opponents or perfectly made-to-order gimme fights at this level. It is going to be a tough, hard, nasty fight, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

I don't want to beat Jason Miller to get a title shot. I want to beat Chael Sonnen. And I don't want to fight anyone other than Anderson Silva for the belt. I'm either good enough to be the UFC middleweight champion, or I'm not. All I've been asking for is the chance to earn my shot, and that's what I've got next week.





Yes, it's a big task, but it is a big task for him to beat me on 10 days notice. I am vastly more experienced than his original opponent, Mark Munoz, and am a far better striker. I strongly urge anyone with some spare cash to put money on me. Me starting a 4:1 underdog is a joke. I'm highly, highly amused by those odds. Please, ladies and gentlemen, refinance your house and make some money on "The Count" next week.

I was mildly amused by some of the things Chael said about me when the fight was announced. But, to be honest, I was expecting a little more from him in the smack talk department. Saying I sound like the British kid in South Park? Not your best material, Chael. Even cornflakes-for-brains Jorge Rivera used the South Park references, but I'm sure Chael's got some quality zingers coming up.

He won't let me down on the smack talk, I am positive. "Fail" Sonnen has failed at politics, failed at real estate, failed at being a crook in real estate because he got caught, failed as a middleweight title challenger, so I am sure Fail Sonnen won't want to fail at his true calling in life: smack-talking.

And for the record, I have to admit, I think Chael is hilarious a lot of the time. He's a great fighter, is a genius self-promoter and MMA is lucky to have him, to be honest. Those who say he's too WWE don't know what promotion in sports is like in the 21st century. I think the guy's personality is great for the sport.

That said, I am kicking his arse next weekend. He's had his shot at the belt. Now I want mine.

UFC on FOX 2, featuring Michael Bisping vs. Chael Sonnen, Rashad Evans vs. Phil Davis, and Demian Maia vs. Chris Weidman, will be LIVE on FOX at 8 p.m. ET, Jan. 28. Follow Bisping on Twitter @bisping

[SPX]

BOL.

Bisping is going to get so raped.

[Vandelay]

Einemo-Guy that didnt like bjj was a high paced fight. Dont blame him for gassing in that one.

[MMA_scientist]

I like all the underdogs here. Bigger bets on Maia and Davis... little ones on every one else. Don't like a single favorite on the card at current lines. Sonnen is probably most likely to win, but I really think he is way over valued here.

I actually think Maia and Davis will win, and would take either one at even. J.O.E. is solid at that line, though he probably cant get Russow down, and he will probably gas out because he is like 40.


Dunham should win... Lentz might be able to get some takedowns on him though and keep it close.

[SPX]

I really think Dunham and Sonnen will both win. So even though I won't take them at the current line, I'm not going to throw my money away on the dogs, either.

[poopoo333]

I agree...all live dogs. Except Bisping. He is going to get fucked

[edman5555]

I like Dunham to win. I still can't get over Lents trying to strike with oliviera. The reach gave him big problems.

[SPX]

Fuck it, money where my mouth is.

5u on Sonnen to win 1.1u. Bisping ain't winning that fight.

[Mr. IWS]

Fuck it, money where my mouth is.

5u on Sonnen to win 1.1u. Bisping ain't winning that fight.

Yezzir

[SPX]

Fucking Bookmaker is full of fail.

If they would go ahead and open the Dunham line I think I'd go ahead and take him.

[MMA_scientist]

IWS is going to get Sonnen'd. I am going to jump on the grenade here and take Bisping... someone has to do it.

IWS is out of control on Sonnen hype. No fight is a lock like you guys are talking... much less against a top 10 fighter in Bisping. What are you going to do if Bisping comes out and gets a takedown? That is what always happens in these types of fights, the guy that has no chance always does something surprising...

[SPX]

Bisping gets a takedown. . .

BISPING GETS A TAKEDOWN!!!!!!!!!

BOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[zY|]

Yeah, I wasn't going to say anything, but I could see a Marquarting happening here. Sonnen should win due to the style matchup, but Bisping ain't no bitch.

[SPX]

With that said, if Bisping DID somehow get a takedown just by taking Sonnen off guard I'm sure that the situation was very quickly be reversed.

[SPX]

Yeah, I wasn't going to say anything, but I could see a Marquarting happening here. Sonnen should win due to the style matchup, but Bisping ain't no bitch.

Like you say, it's just a HORRIBLE style matchup. Bisping never KOs anyone and Sonnen has never been knocked out.

And if Bisping can be taken down by Miller, then Sonnen should accomplish TDs very easily.

My main fear is Bisping somehow catching a triangle or some crazy shit like that.

[MMA_scientist]

Ok. Sonnen is invincible. Don't say you guy were not warned. Bisping gets taken down pretty easily but he is kind of hard to hold there.

You laught like it can't happen, but Bisping did take Rashad down FWIW. He also stuffed him a lot and reversed him to top position. He only fought one other wrestler, Hammil. Hammil did get him down a couple times, but couldn't keep him there at all. I do think Sonnen will get some takedowns, but I think it will a lot harder to hold him there than you guys do.

[MMA_scientist]

Don't get me wrong, I think Sonnen will win also... but I won't be surprised at all if Bisping takes the last 2 rounds with insane cardio and popping up after every takedown. I just don't think it is like a lock of the century or anything. The thing about Miller.... he doesn't suck, he just looked like he did when he fought Bisping.

[SPX]

I'll say this shit, you can get Sonnen right now at -445. I've seen you take bets at similar odds on riskier fights than this one. So clearly your Sonnen hate is clouding your vision.

[MMA_scientist]

I have never paid -400 for anyone over another top ten fighter that I can recall. I don't believe in invincible men, I have said as much many times... about Anderson, Fedor, BJ... I don't pay more than -400 very often for anyone at any level... obviously I do it sometimes, but it is pretty rare for me to go over -400 on a fight.

Also, your assessment of what is a risky fight probably differs a lot from mine. I have bet Sonnen to win several times, BTW, when I think it is worth it.

[SPX]

Fuck you, Scientist!

[MMA_scientist]

I am going to place my bet on Bisping, only to break the curse, because I do expect Sonnen to win. I hate Bisping equally, so I will root for Sonnen just for you and Wiseman. I might do a distance prop. I think that is going to a decision, neither guy is a real finisher.

[SPX]

Well I appreciate your curse-breaker. And Sonnen via RNC.

[Vandelay]

I agree that Bisping is hard to hole down, but sonnen should be able to do it. Sonnen hold's every1 down. Every1 and he will just keep taking him down if bisping is able to get up. And Matt hamill isn't on the same level of wrestling as Sonnen is. At least in mma.

[sbjj]

Why would you bet Sonnen @ -450 or higher, when you can bet Dunham @ -280? I actually think Dunham is more of a lock.

Sonnen gets subbed, and Bisping has a decent guard. I also think Sonnen will win, but the line is ridiculous.

Dunham-Camozzi parlay is what I am thinking.

[SPX]

I would bet Dunham at the current odds if I had 5d.

[poopoo333]

I'm thinking about a 5u bet on Dunham/Sonnen. I will probably just bet Dunham straight too.

[sbjj]

I'm with Scientist here man. I think Sonnen @ that price is just dangerous. It is not like Bisping sucks. I think there will be much better bets on the undercard.

[sbjj]

I'm thinking about a 5u bet on Dunham/Sonnen. I will probably just bet Dunham straight too.

I kinda like that better than playing him straight.

[SPX]

I'm with Scientist here man. I think Sonnen @ that price is just dangerous. It is not like Bisping sucks. I think there will be much better bets on the undercard.

So how does he win?

Does he knock Sonnen out? Decision him? Sub him? I mean, there's always the fluke, but discounting that, what is his path to victory?

No one seems to have one.

[sbjj]

He could sub him. I actually think Bisping has better subs than Anderson Silva. At least he seems to have a more active guard.

I actually think Sonnen might get the better of the stand up. And more than likely he wins. I just hate to bet such long odds on a guy who is not the definition of dependable. Those long odds to me are only for guys like GSP and mismatches like Couture-Toney. But in all actuality I just try to stay away from bets like this period. I say if you want to bet 10 units 0n Sonnen to win 2...just bet 4 units on Sonnen-Dunham to win 2. Might save you 6 units.

[SPX]

He could sub him. I actually think Bisping has better subs than Anderson Silva. At least he seems to have a more active guard.

He doesn't have a single submission win in the UFC. He may have an active guard, but what's that mean if he never actually finishes anyone?


I just hate to bet such long odds on a guy who is not the definition of dependable.

I understand the sentiment, but in reality he only gets subbed by guys who have proven submission prowess. Silva, Maia, Filho, etc.

Even Marquardt couldn't lock anything in.

[poopoo333]

mismatches like Couture-Toney.

I still hate myself for not putting my life savings on Couture @-460.



Even Marquardt couldn't lock anything in.

Except a guillotine that Sonnen gutted out of.

[SPX]

Except a guillotine that Sonnen gutted out of.

Well that wasn't locked in then, was it?

[poopoo333]

Well that wasn't locked in then, was it?

It was, but Sonnen just waited until Marquardt got tired

[SPX]

Well it's a choke, not a headlock. If it had been "locked in" in the sense that I mean it, then Sonnen either would've been forced to tap or go to sleep.

[mike]

Why would you bet Sonnen @ -450 or higher, when you can bet Dunham @ -280? I actually think Dunham is more of a lock.

Sonnen gets subbed, and Bisping has a decent guard. I also think Sonnen will win, but the line is ridiculous.

Dunham-Camozzi parlay is what I am thinking.

i dont remember any of CamozzÃ*'s fight how or he fights. Does he use wrestling and often goes for TD ? Is he a wrestler ?

[edman5555]

Chael gets subbed by very good black belts. Bisping never subs anyone.

[MMA_scientist]

I doubt Bisping will submit him. Sonnen gets subbed, but he spends a lot of time in guard. Per minute of being inside the guard, his submission rate is probably pretty low. I think Bisping could win by using his underrated wrestling and just having a higher work rate standing. I agree though, that there is not a real viable path for him. Its just, he wins. He usually finds a way to win or at least keep it really close. He hasn't really been dominated in a fight, other than when Hendo KO'd him. But up until the KO, it was a pretty even fight (Bisping tried to take Hendo down too, but he got massively stuffed).

You know what? Sonnen is going to win this.

[poopoo333]

Davis' line is slowly getting better....you guys think it will continue to do so?

[BIGDAY]

I think Rashad will go to around -190 to -200.

[Vandelay]

lines out. Im convinced that the oddsmakers meant to put lavar johnson as a -215 fav. not beltran.

[SPX]

Took Roop at +150 and Roller at -185.

[poopoo333]

I took Roop @+150 as well. I want Beltran's price to get better, he will win.

[Vandelay]

I took Roop @+150 as well. I want Beltran's price to get better, he will win.

Bitter after he cost you money against Shawn Jordan?

[poopoo333]

Bitter after he cost you money against Shawn Jordan?

No, I just think Beltran is going to win. Lavar is going to get tired, then beat up on. Or he will get the early KO and I will look stupid

[Vandelay]

Beltran's not exactly known for his gas tank. But he should have the adv if this goes past the halfway pt of rd 2.

[SPX]

Beltran actually has pretty good cardio for a fat heavyweight.

[poopoo333]

He doesn't have good cardio, but he doesn't fold and turn into a little bitch either, he just keeps coming forward. I wont be surprised if Beltran goes for the takedowns and do work from the top like he did in round 1 against Mitrione. Beltran took Miocic down briefly as well iirc

[edman5555]

The lines are getting shitty. dunhams is all over the place. I can't catch him in the 200's like I want to. Chaels is consistently shitty. I want to get them both at a good time and parlay them.

[edman5555]

I need to watch some more tape on these guys though.

[Thewisemann]

Scientist, glad to see you get your head outta your ass and say Sonnen is gonna win. Put him in your 2012 parlay.

[MMA_scientist]

^^ well, I still don't think the line is justified. But SPX makes an excellent point, Bisping is going to have to do something he has never done before to win this. There is really no reason to think he is going to be able to stop the takedowns and Chael's cardio is pretty good. But Bisping doesn't suck and I don't think Chael is the wrestling God that you guys all do... so I am just going to do nothing. I still feel like Bisping has a shot, but it is difficult to see a clear path to victory for him.

[MMA_scientist]

What do you guys think about Bisping/Sonnen goes the distance @ -265?

[poopoo333]

All kidding aside, I give Bisping such a small % chance of winning a decision, so you may as well bet Chael by decision. Even if Bisping can stuff Chael a lot, you know Chael will still get the "points". He will have Bisping against the cage and get him down a few times and steal the rounds. If Bisping ends up on top, it will be briefly...remember the reversal Chael pulled off on Anderson within like 10 seconds?

I am almost tempted to do a "not by..." parlay and put "not bisping by decision" in it.

[poopoo333]

The lines are getting shitty. dunhams is all over the place. I can't catch him in the 200's like I want to. Chaels is consistently shitty. I want to get them both at a good time and parlay them.

I've been looking for the same thing. Should have took the -445/-280 parlay, instead I figured Chael's might come down and Dunham's would stay the same.

[edman5555]

I made the same mistake. I agree with Bisping as well. His power is mediocre and Chaels chin is excellent, there is nothing to stop Chael from plowing into him whenever he wants. The sub is probably unlikely. Scientist - this is a three rounder and all but I am somewhat worried about Chael stopping him. Not hugely worried but you never know. I'll have to think about that one some more.

[Thewisemann]

What do you guys think about Bisping/Sonnen goes the distance @ -265?

Hell no. Bisping may get TKO'd here. He may even pull an armbar out of his ass too.

[edman5555]

I agree. I am also a little worried about the armbar..

[MMA_scientist]

i really don't think Bisping is going to submit him, at all. i think he has a way better chance of winning a decision.

[edman5555]

I don't know. I would be amazed if he could stop the takedown.

[edman5555]

You might be on the crazy sauce.

[MMA_scientist]

I don't think he will be able to stop it, at least not in the first round. I do think he might be able to just get up, Chuck Liddell style. The only time Bisping has spent any time on the floor is after he was rocked with a punch. He may have been held down some by Rashad.

[Vandelay]

and he was held down by mayhem....for a rd.

[Ludo]

Not to mention Chael just submitted Brian Stann, and while Stann is no above average grappler or anything he is a really strong middleweight and he's just the kind of guy who should be able to power out of an arm triangle like that, but Chael locked it in and crushed him with it. Bisping might tap to it too.

[MMA_scientist]

Stann gets submitted all the time though. You can't really power out of an arm triangle, you just have to move your body so that the blood keeps flowing and wiggle free.

Anyway, all in on Chael.

I am really excited about these fights, they are three great grapple centric battles, and all of them are very relevant.

[Luke]

Jebus, the Sonnen hype is just out of control...






Anyway, all in on Chael.




::swifty::

[MMA_scientist]

^ sarcasm. I am not betting Chael, not even considering it at that line. But I do feel like he is sure enough to scare me off of Bisping too. So I am going to do nothing.

[Luke]

^ sarcasm. I am not betting Chael, not even considering it at that line. But I do feel like he is sure enough to scare me off of Bisping too. So I am going to do nothing.

That's a lot of wasted typing, capping,and defending to end up doing nothing.

[MMA_scientist]

^^ Yeah... that's the game though. I look at the fight, I make a decision. Not winning is better than losing.

[ctm0808]

I think they were counting on you to break the curse and have someone on Bisping.. is you not winning worth all of them losing?

[SPX]

I think they were counting on you to break the curse and have someone on Bisping.. is you not winning worth all of them losing?

Now that right there is an excellent point. Scientist, by not betting Bisping, I'd go so far as to say that you're a bad person.

[Thewisemann]

What curse? And Bisping was held down for a round by...DENIS KANG

[SPX]

Hey, Denis Kang is underrated. . .

[MMA_scientist]

I already bet Davis and Maia. I am thinking about going big on Davis, as I am really starting to feel that he is going to win. I want another bet, but I don't see anything I like very much. I am kind of tempted on Dunham.

[Thewisemann]

Dunham and Sonnen parlay.

[poopoo333]

I already bet Davis and Maia. I am thinking about going big on Davis, as I am really starting to feel that he is going to win. I want another bet, but I don't see anything I like very much. I am kind of tempted on Dunham.

I'm with you on Davis.

[Thewisemann]

I don't understand why you guys like Davis so much.

[MMA_scientist]

I just think he can wrestle Rashad down and drape all over him. I also think his reach will make it difficult for Rashad standing. I just think he is a far better wrestler and a much bigger man.

[poopoo333]

People are not realizing the fact that Davis is still improving and has had a whole year since the Little Nog fight. People are taking the first round of that fight way too seriously

[Luke]

BOL,Jason Brilz was able to get Lil Nog on the floor faster than Davis could.I think you two are completely wrong about Davis .His MMA wrestling nor his striking is better than Rashad's. IF Davis wins I think it will be in the later rounds since Evans has a tendency to slow down after 2.5 rounds into a fight. I could see Rashad schooling Davis for the first few rounds then slowing down and losing a close decision.

[poopoo333]

BOL,Jason Brilz was able to get Lil Nog on the floor faster than Davis could.I think you two are completely wrong about Davis .His MMA wrestling nor his striking is better than Rashad's. IF Davis wins I think it will be in the later rounds since Evans has a tendency to slow down after 2.5 rounds into a fight. I could see Rashad schooling Davis for the first few rounds then slowing down and losing a close decision.

Well, Nog took that fight on short notice. Then he had to prepare for Ryan Bader (in which he showed better T3D after a round or so), then had another whole camp to prepare for a wrestler. Before preparing for Phil Davis, he was preparing for Tito Ortiz (another wrestler). So Lil Nog basically focused on wrestling since the UFC 114 time period and gave Davis some problems.

I am not saying Davis is going to win for sure, but I believe he wins.

I also think this fight was a bad idea for the main event of Fox...has a chance of being boring as hell

[Thewisemann]

The only reason I'm not going big on Evans is I expect Davis to be improved.

[SPX]

I also think this fight was a bad idea for the main event of Fox...has a chance of being boring as hell

BOL, they're probably doing everything they can to make sure this one lasts longer than 61 seconds.

[Ludo]

People are not realizing the fact that Davis is still improving and has had a whole year since the Little Nog fight. People are taking the first round of that fight way too seriously

Actually he's spent the last half year or so battling a knee injury that forced him out of two consecutive fights(the first time he and Rashad were supposed to fight, and he was originally supposed to fight Machida at UFC140). I wouldn't say he's been able to spend the last year improving by any means.

[MMA_scientist]

BOL,Jason Brilz was able to get Lil Nog on the floor faster than Davis could.I think you two are completely wrong about Davis .His MMA wrestling nor his striking is better than Rashad's. IF Davis wins I think it will be in the later rounds since Evans has a tendency to slow down after 2.5 rounds into a fight. I could see Rashad schooling Davis for the first few rounds then slowing down and losing a close decision.

My issue is more that Rashad can be taken down (taken down by Tito, Bisping, Salmon- basically everyone that tried) , than it is that Davis has super powerful takedowns. Offensive wrestling is a totally different skill than defensive wrestling, and I believe that Davis has a better combination of the two. Also, Nog has some reach and likes to box on the outside... Rashad is going to have to come forward if he wants to hit Davis, and it is a lot easier to takedown someone who is coming forward as opposed to backing up.
Finally, Rashad probably has better striking, but he has been floored several times. He was almost stopped by Thiago Silva and Rampage leveled him too, and we know about Machida. Davis might not be as powerful a striker, but he has not been hit hard (and he has fought equally good strikers in Gustaffson and Nog).

Basically, Rashad has more offense, but less defense in both the striking and wrestling. So even though Davis had some trouble getting Gustaffson and Nog down... so what? Nothing bad happened because of it, neither guy was able to get any offense off.

I might be totally wrong... but I think @ +160, it is worth a play. I actually think Davis is going to win, so it is a no brainer for me.

[MMA_scientist]

As an aside, I am not trying to convince anyone to bet Davis. Wiseman asked why I think Davis is going to win... there it is.

[Ludo]

As an aside, I am not trying to convince anyone to bet Davis. Wiseman asked why I think Davis is going to win... there it is.

Thats what we're all here for. Different things to consider only helps us all. I don't know that Tito taking Rashad down for a half a second counts for anything, and the first Tito fight/Salmon fight counts for nothing anymore since Rashad has become a totally different fighter since then. Rampage and Thiago both leveled him but that wasn't until the third round after Rashad was also tired, and both of those guys are far better/more powerful strikers than Davis is at this point.

[MMA_scientist]

^^ yeah, I know Rashad has evolved. I don't think Davis will hurt him standing at all... just pointing out the difference in the styles. Rashad is all come forward with power punches and power doubles, he gets a lot of takedowns this way and lands a lot of power punches, but he also exposes himself somewhat -it is a trade off. This will probably be the first time he has been in the role of sprawl and brawl since Salmon. Even in Tito1, he was trying for takedowns of his own. I really don't think he will be able to take Davis down. I think he may try it once, and then he will realize it is not going to happen. I just think Rashad is going to get taken out of his usual game of coming forward all the time here, and it is going to mess him up.

[poopoo333]

Probably gonna throw 4u on Davis

[MMA_scientist]

I am talking myself into a bigger bet. I rarely bet more than enough to win 1u on a dog. I think I am going to see if my Maia bet hits, then double down on Davis if he wins.

[Vandelay]

Im starting to come around. Davis striking is really bad though and his takedowns from distance are about as good as his striking. Even his transitions suck.

[Luke]

I think I am going to see if my Maia bet hits, then double down on Davis if he wins.


In other words you're sticking with your 1 unit bet.

[edman5555]

I have been on the fence on the Davis/Rashad fight but I am starting to see your point. Rashad has a more well rounded game + experience but I feel like Davis is going to power him down to the ground. I could be wrong though.

[Vandelay]

Ill be leaving for the weighins tomorrow morning. Hopefully its an exciting card.

[trotterz]

I have been on the fence on the Davis/Rashad fight but I am starting to see your point. Rashad has a more well rounded game + experience but I feel like Davis is going to power him down to the ground. I could be wrong though.

I was feeling the same way, but yesterday I re-watched nog-davis one more time, davis really looked like shit in that fight .... especially in the wrestling department

[Luke]

Ill be leaving for the weighins tomorrow morning. Hopefully its an exciting card.


Let us know if you make weight or not.

[edman5555]

I was feeling the same way, but yesterday I re-watched nog-davis one more time, davis really looked like shit in that fight .... especially in the wrestling department

Yeah I guess. I remember that shitty kick where he almost fell down. It makes sense to think rashad will win through being more well rounded. On the other hand, Phil is a bigger stronger better wrestler and rashad gases sometimes. Maybe he is in shape this time but who knows. Rashad could also knock him out.

[MMA_scientist]

Rashad could also knock him out.

That could definitely happen. Think Mo-Roger... The difference is Phil should have better takedowns, but it is not inescapable death once on the ground.

[trotterz]

Yeah I guess. I remember that shitty kick where he almost fell down. It makes sense to think rashad will win through being more well rounded. On the other hand, Phil is a bigger stronger better wrestler and rashad gases sometimes. Maybe he is in shape this time but who knows. Rashad could also knock him out.

Yeah, I really want to play on Davis,
I think he has value, and by looking at the credentials, he should be the better wrestler by far.Bbut damn his wrestling looked awfull agains't nog. I have read on a couple place that he was sick for the nog fight, maybe it was the reason for it. In all of his other fights, his wrestling looked really good. My concern about the nog fight is that his shots were awfull, I am not taking into consideration nog's TDD. Davis takedown attemps looked just bad, similar to someone who never wrestle in all of his life, even his takedowns attemps that were successfull, they just looked awfull. It reminded me on when bisping attempted a takedown against Hendo

[trotterz]

I am probably going to play Davis anyway, just because of the fact that he will be bigger, there is going to be a lot of clinch work and takedown attemps in the earlier rounds, and rashad's gas tank should be completely empty after 2 rounds

[edman5555]

Well his takedowns were stuffed in the first round. His striking did look shitty though. I am starting to remember. Little nog is a very good striker though, he also had good takedown defense in the bader fight. I guess I just don't see rashad as having striking so good at Phil can't close the distance and make it a wrestling match. I don't think that will be easy for him to do though. In fact, he may have a lot of trouble.

[Thewisemann]

Davis will have to be quite a bit improved to win this fight. I won't be suprised if Evans takes him down, he mixes strikes with takedowns very good.

[edman5555]

Yeah that is the problem with betting davis. Maybe his line will improve.

[SPX]

Let us know if you make weight or not.

BOL

[MMA_scientist]

I am thinking about taking Roller here. He is -225, but how can Mj beat him? He can't outwrestle him, his striking is equally bad, and he may ge submitted too... I just don't see an out for MJ... thoughts?

[poopoo333]

MJ's only advantage may be power in the hands. That's it. His only out is a KO. I think Roller wins by sub

[MMA_scientist]

full props for sonnen/bisping

looks like we are going to get submission props for maia/weidmen too.

distance props out on undercard

[MMA_scientist]

MJ's only advantage may be power in the hands. That's it. His only out is a KO. I think Roller wins by sub

Dunham/Roller -116 yay or nay?

[poopoo333]

Dunham/Roller -116 yay or nay?

Yay.

I would.

I might.

[MMA_scientist]

It feels a little like a reach, but I am going to do it anyway.

[SPX]

I took Roller straight at -185. I think he wins, for all the reasons you mentioned.

[Luke]

Roller is so inconsistent. I'd never trust him as a -225 favorite

[Ludo]

Roller is so inconsistent. I'd never trust him as a -225 favorite

But most of his wins are by submission, while Johnsons has lost all but one time by submission.

[Luke]

But most of his wins are by submission, while Johnsons has lost all but one time by submission.


Yeah..........I don't see what that has to do with laying -225 on someone who is inconsistent.

[AC88]

I feel Roop has great value at that line.

[SPX]

Why? Break it down. . .

[MMA_scientist]

Roller has lost to some great fighters, I don't really think he is inconsistent. His only "bad" loss is Grant IMO, and that is unfortunately is his most recent fight. But Johnson is jst flat out not as good as the guy he has been fighting IMO, and just doesn't have the tools to win barring something crazy like MJ landing his first power punch of his career.

[SPX]

His only "bad" loss is Grant IMO, and that is unfortunately is his most recent fight.

Wasn't that stoppage controversial anyway?

[Ludo]

Besides, consistency does not matter.

[MMA_scientist]

Controversial is not the right word, it was a bad stoppage. Roller did not tap, and he was not injured. But still, Grant won the first two rounds... Roller was going to lose a decision anyway. His wrestling is not that good for an AA wrestler, but he scrambles pretty well/ He couldn't get Grant down, and got taken down several times. MJ may be able to get some takedowns, but Grant usually finds a way to scramble to a better spot, I just think he has too many submissions for MJ, who gets subbed by everyone. Like I said, it feels like a bit of a reach as I really don't know how the fight is going to play out, but I just feel that Roller has the advantage standing, wrestling, on top or bottom. I think he can even win from his back if he doesn't go for the guillotine on every shot like he has a propensity of doing.

[edman5555]

I am starting to get cold feet on Dunham. I still feel confident in chael though. Lentz is pretty good and I could see Dunham having trouble with him. I still favor Dunham but I don't know that his reach is going to play a big enough factor and that is what I was betting on. I am thinking that Lentz can close the distance because he has a good chin and Dunham is not known for knocking people put. I wouldn't be shocked to see Dunham pull a sub out of us ass though.

[Luke]

Anyone see what Vandelay weighed in at ?

[edman5555]

He missed weight by seven pounds. Oh no wait that was Antonio McKee.....maybe vandaley is Antonio McKee.....

[SPX]

I am starting to get cold feet on Dunham. I still feel confident in chael though. Lentz is pretty good and I could see Dunham having trouble with him. I still favor Dunham but I don't know that his reach is going to play a big enough factor and that is what I was betting on. I am thinking that Lentz can close the distance because he has a good chin and Dunham is not known for knocking people put. I wouldn't be shocked to see Dunham pull a sub out of us ass though.

I really wouldn't worry about it. Dunham should win.

[Vandelay]

I like Johnson. Especially at the line, Roller has bad standup and mediocre takedowns. His grappling is good on the ground, but johnsons got good tdd to stay off his back and isnt a fish out of water down there. He was doing well against brookins, sass and faaloto.

[mike]

I like Johnson. Especially at the line, Roller has bad standup and mediocre takedowns. His grappling is good on the ground, but johnsons got good tdd to stay off his back and isnt a fish out of water down there. He was doing well against brookins, sass and faaloto.

i feel the same way. how is johnson's cardio though? if he cant finish Roller, he might gas and get choked out.

[SPX]

Fuck you Evan Dunham's line!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mike]

Fuck you Evan Dunham's line!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lolz

[edman5555]

i ended up putting a little on lentz

[SPX]

I ended up putting a little on your mom.

[poopoo333]

Fights are on fuel tv now...any streams?

[Svino]

I thought Fuel started at 5:00

[poopoo333]

I thought Fuel started at 5:00

Camozzi fight is on now

[poopoo333]

Just read that Weidman dropped 32 lbs in 11 days

[poopoo333]

nvm, dana white just said on twitter fuel starts @ 5. I guess the Camozzi fight is unaired

[poopoo333]

http://www.firstrow.tv/watch/104570/1/watch-ufc-on-fox:-preliminaries.html

[poopoo333]

http://www.mma-tv.net/main.php

[SPX]

Awesome, thanks for linking it up.

[Luke]

nvm, dana white just said on twitter fuel starts @ 5. I guess the Camozzi fight is unaired


It was on facebook

[Luke]

Just read that Weidman dropped 32 lbs in 11 days

Is still going to win.

[MMA_scientist]

I ave 6 straight hours of free HD fights tonight. I am going to start around 7CT, so i can skip all the BS. I figure I will be all caught up by 8. So I won't around until near the end. GL tonight.

[Thewisemann]

I almost bet both Johnsons, Fuck. Still a good night I knew I shoulda doubled my bet on Evans.

[Luke]

Seen an article "matches to make after UFC on Fox 2"

Chael Sonnen vs Anderson Silva (duh)
Ryan Bader vs Phil Davis
Michael Bisping vs Demain Maia
Chris Weidman vs Rousimar Palhares
Evan Dunham vs Edson Barboza

[poopoo333]

I like all those, and I would bet big on Bisping against Maia now. Barboza/Dunham would be great

[Luke]

I like all those, and I would bet big on Bisping against Maia now. Barboza/Dunham would be great

Wasn't Bisping -200 last time? After Maia's bad performance and Bisping's good one the line will probably be even higher this time.

[mike]

how about weidman-bisping ? I think that's a step up in fighting ranked fighters over Palhares, although Palhares is a more dangerous fight.

[Svino]

how about weidman-bisping ? I think that's a step up in fighting ranked fighters over Palhares, although Palhares is a more dangerous fight.

It would be a good fight, but it goes against the pattern of matching winners with winners and losers with losers that they probably won't go against unless someone is making a bigger step in competition. Same with Bader / Davis.

What about Rua / Davis?

[poopoo333]

It would be a good fight, but it goes against the pattern of matching winners with winners and losers with losers that they probably won't go against unless someone is making a bigger step in competition. Same with Bader / Davis.

What about Rua / Davis?

Whoever wrote that is probably assuming Bader is going to lose to Rampage in a few weeks

[MMA_scientist]

Maia is a can now.

[MMA_scientist]

Post event thoughts:

Maia seriously needs to remember how he used to win fights. I have no idea why he kept standing up so he could get punched in the face more. He didn't even attempt a takedown until he was completely zapped. It actually pisses me off.

You guys got lucky on Sonnen. I told you fuckers that you were about to get MQ'd... Bisping won the fight by most accounts. Although, I had Sonnen winning personally. Also, Sonnen looked huge to me. Bisping is a large MW (and wasn't even that small @ LHW), and Sonnen dwarfed him.

I was super wrong about Davis and Rashad. Rashad is better than I thought, I guess. I think Rashad does have a chance against Jones.

Roller. Can. When he finally decided to get the takedown, he was dominant... why didn't he try that more? His hair is so stupid.

Oliveira is one of the most fun guys to watch in MMA. Rogan needs to lose his job for not knowing what a fucking calf slicer is. He is not an "expert", he needs to take over the color job and let Florian in there to be the expert.

I really can't stand the WWE-ification of MMA. Between Rogan, the rampant obvious steroid use, and the UFC management, it is ruining the sport for me. I am very seriously considering just not watching MMA anymore. I don't like the direction it is going, and I only keep watching because of my bets. I did quit watching NFL a couple years ago just because I didn't really care anymore. I am almost to that place with MMA... I just don't care very much.

[Vandelay]

Phil Davis blows. Hes like roller now, except an even worse mma wrestler and worse striker. I will be betting against him whenever he faces someone halfway decent.

MJ is good man. I forget how Roller got the takedown, but MJ defended every type of takedown Roller attempted.

Bisping was impressive. He is really effective at getting right back up when taken down and his tdd is pretty good. He should only lose to superior strikers.

Weidman gassed horribly in the second round, and maia worse than weidman in the third. Weird performance from maia. Although I do think he arguably won the first two rds of the fight.

[edman5555]

Maia gassing was sad...he should of had that fight. Weidman had a good excuse to gas. He took the fight on short notice. Maia must have had an injury in camp or something...why else would he be out of shape for his FOX debut. Ridiculous. I should have won that bet.

As to Rashad and Phil. I feel stupid for betting Phil. Rashad won that because he can actually strike. Thats about it.

[MMA_scientist]

I had Weidman winning based on his scoring takedowns. I just don't know why Maia didn't want to grapple. Very weird to see someone wanting to grapple with him and Maia basically refusing to grapple.

I don't think Davis sucks. He did beat Nog, who may not be the best guy, but he is good. I actually think Davis showed some flashes of potential. If he can learn to do some damage with those leg kicks, he is going to be nasty. If you remember when Rashad started fighting... he wasn't very good. He just layed on guys and did zero damage. Davis is still progressing, I won't be surprised to see him with the belt at some point.

MJ was never good before Saturday. I thought Roller would win the standup exchanges... but MJ looked improved standing and Roller should have gone Jake Shields on the takedowns. I think guys need to get back into all or nothing grappling... they give up too easily because they can strike a little. I actually think Maia was a better fighter when he could not strike at all... he had to get the takedown or he was dead. Guys that understand that seem to be better. Look at Chael. I can say this for him, he understands pressing forward and getting the takedown at all costs. Very rarely does he stand around and box. If he is boxing, it is so he can clinch. There are a few exceptions- he willingly stood with Filho.

[MMA_scientist]

Maia gassing was sad...he should of had that fight. Weidman had a good excuse to gas. He took the fight on short notice. Maia must have had an injury in camp or something...why else would he be out of shape for his FOX debut. Ridiculous. I should have won that bet.

As to Rashad and Phil. I feel stupid for betting Phil. Rashad won that because he can actually strike. Thats about it.

Maia always gasses. I told you that he virtually guaranteed to lose round 3. He always gasses in the third.

That said, and as crappy as his gameplanning is, he could have been given both the Munoz and Weidman fights. Different judging and he would be up for a title shot again.

[Vandelay]

Davis literally looks like he is shadow boxing. He never commits to a punch and looks like he is throwing at 50% speed. It's sad to watch. Plus his transitions to wrestling are pretty bad. He didn't "win" the nog fight. He clearly lost rd 1 and didn't do anything, save for 1 takedown with 1:30 left in rd 2 and proceeded to do nothing with it. Couldnt take down gustaffson either and that was b4 gustaffson had any substantial wrestling training. He is no where near the level that Bader is at, OSP would destroy this guy, and Roger would also beat him.

[MMA_scientist]

^ I disagree. He would beat OSP easy IMO. I think he would beat Roger too, just because as bad as Phil's striking is, Roger's is worse. That would literally be the worst fight ever if Phil decided to stay standing.

I also think he would beat Gustaffson again. I mean, he not only got him down, he submitted him in the first round. Or was that before Gustaffson had any submission training too? Give the guy his due... he has never lost a fight before Saturday, depsite being thrown in there right away. He fought Stann in his first fight and has only had one "easy" fight (Wallace) in 6 outings. Rashad was fighting Sam Hoger and Sean Salmon when he was 5 fights deep in the UFC. Also, Rashad is pretty damn good. Losing to him is not a big deal IMO. His striking didn't look great, but I am hopnig he comes in at a discount in his next fight because I still believe. Although, I fully admit I was wrong on this fight... it seems horrible in hindsight, but it always does.

[Ludo]

OSP just got wrestle fucked by a guy who has never given half a shit about even defending takedowns in the last six years. OSP and Davis are in the same boat here. Young wrestlers who haven't figured out how to transition into MMA completely just yet, but will eventually become monsters.

What's stupid about Maia gassing in this instance is that he didn't have to do any work for the first two rounds. He CHOSE to push the pace even after Weidman was sucking wind. By round three both of them were totally spent. Maia has no excuse for gassing that badly when he didn't have to spend as much energy as usual grappling for two rounds.

I feel like Davis got rushed into a big fight when he clearly wasn't ready. My entire rationale for betting Evans against him, even the first time, is that he's never fought anyone on Rashad's level and Rashad is one of the most well rounded fighters in the division and I was doubting Davis could deal with that. Hopefully they give Davis some more time to mature as a fighter and he's back in the title eliminator in a year and a half or two years from now with a more complete game.

I think it's time we started taking those Blackzillian fighters seriously, assuming they don't come in 12lbs over weight.

[Vandelay]

OSP has good tdd, Roger can at least throw his hands and is more comfortable standing than Davis is, Gustafson got subbed attempting his own td, he stopped all of davis's attempts. It's only a matter of time before this guy gets koed. If he doesnt fight a lower tier fighter in his next fight, he will lose.

[Ludo]

If he has such good takedown defense then why did Mousasi literally pull his shorts down and fuck him in the ass with wrestling for fifteen minutes?

[MMA_scientist]

Davis would submit OSP in the first round. You guys are pretty damn critical considering he was fighting one of the best guys in the world.

[Vandelay]

Im sure OSP wasnt training tdd against Mousasi, a guy who never uses offensive wrestling. He still managed to stuff mousasi and hit switches midway through the second round. Same reason why BJ was able to take down Fitch. Element of surprise.

[zY|]

Give it up. Phil Davis would spank OSP and Roger. And he and Gustaffson are BFFs now.

[Luke]

That said, and as crappy as his gameplanning is, he could have been given both the Munoz and Weidman fights. Different judging and he would be up for a title shot again.

Bol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What fight were you watching?

[Luke]

Davis doesn't suck. He just he ran into someone that does everything he does better.

[poopoo333]

http://www.cagepotato.com/chael-sonnens-terrible-post-fight-speech-was-actually-ripped-off-from-superstar-billy-graham/

[edman5555]

Yeah Maia seemed like he did not come in shape for this fight. There was very little grappling in it at all. He gassed from striking. Something odd about that. I could see why he might not want to grapple with Weidman btw.

[Svino]

Let's not rush to call Davis a bust. Evans is a very good fighter and I think Davis still has tons of potential. I thought his striking was improved, but it looks like it still has quite a ways to go. Obviously, he would be helped out immensely if he learned to use his reach and jab effectively.

I believe Maia is simply a fighter who hit his limit. I think guys whose MO is winning by submission are dominant at lower levels, but they have a ceiling. To reach the top, they either have to be able to outstrike a lot of their opponents or dramatically improve their ability to get the fight to the ground, and Maia just hasn't been able to turn that corner.

[Ludo]

It actually seems like Maia isn't even training anymore to be honest. His striking wasn't near as dynamic in this fight as it was against Munoz and his cardio was pure shit this time out. After ten minutes, almost half of that spent in total control of the pace because Weidman tired out, he was even more gassed than the guy who cut 32lbs in 10 days just to make the fight.

Also, as Scientist I think it was pointed it out, Maia was the one refusing to grapple with Weidman and not the other way around. I just don't know what Maia's gameplan was coming in here other than he has totally fallen in love with his hands except he doesn't have the knockouts to show why he might. It's one thing for someone like Josh Koscheck to abandon his dominant grappling game to work striking while he's knocking guys out in the meantime but Maia has one knockout in his entire career, which was in his first pro fight.

I guess I just don't understand what he was doing this whole time to come in with such shitty cardio and a striking attack that seems to have regressed from what it was even six months ago.

I agree that Davis isn't a bust, like I said I feel like he got rushed into the spotlight a little too quickly and just didn't have the time to transition fully by the time he fought someone like Evans. He should still be on fight night cards against the Minotoro's and Rich Franklins for a little bit until he develops an all around game.

[zY|]

Hey Ludo (or anyone else), have you found the footage of the Camozzi vs Jacobi fight anywhere or know if they even released it?

[Ludo]

Hey Ludo (or anyone else), have you found the footage of the Camozzi vs Jacobi fight anywhere or know if they even released it?

I haven't looked for it, but as far as I know it never got ripped. I don't think most people knew it was on facebook so it might just be lost forever.

[Svino]

I haven't looked for it, but as far as I know it never got ripped. I don't think most people knew it was on facebook so it might just be lost forever.

Did you see it on FB? I looked for it there when it was supposedly live, but didn't find it.

[Ludo]

I didn't see it, I read somewhere that night that it was on facebook but I could be wrong. I looked around and couldn't find so much as a video for it let alone a download. Shit is a phantom fight.

[poopoo333]

Joey Beltran,

http://www.pamkrugerglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/trump-youre-fired.jpg

[Mr. IWS]

^^^^^LOL

That should be IWS tradition. using that pic when a guy gets cut.

[SPX]

Beltran should get one more. That's only 2 in a row.

[Mr. IWS]

Beltran should get one more. That's only 2 in a row.

2-6-10 Never forget..................

[Mr. IWS]

Rolles is actually fighting Sapp next Saturday. Bulz

[MMA_scientist]

The stupid think is that Rolles would probably actually be a pretty good fighter. He gassed/froze up whatever, but he looked pretty good up until then. He was dominating and then he just died. HW's are so terrible, I would have liked to see him get another chance. He probably got paid a lot though.

[SPX]

2-6-10 Never forget..................

Can you believe that shit was 2 years ago? 2 fucking years ago. Time really does fly. I would never have guessed it was that far back.



Rolles is actually fighting Sapp next Saturday. Bulz

For real? Damn. I figured that dude just quit.

[Mr. IWS]

Can you believe that shit was 2 years ago? 2 fucking years ago. Time really does fly. I would never have guessed it was that far back.






For real? Damn. I figured that dude just quit.


Fuckin bitch is 5-1 only loss to?

The manic hispanic

[poopoo333]

Vandelay, you have any pics yet from your seat?

[Luke]

2-6-10 Never forget..................


BOL!!!!!