The direction of MMA

[edman5555]

Ive noticed people have been posting that they hate MMA a lot lately. I think it would be interesting to hear everyones problems with the direction things are going in. Feel free to chime in.

[Luke]

A lot of it has to do with Dana White and his constant lies. For example, he said women's MMA would "never" be in the UFC and now there are forcing down our throats. They are even starting a 115lb division.

Then there's the constant hype of every fight is going to be THE GREATEST ever or its the most ANTICIPATED fight in history !!

Then there's Rogan and Goldie who not only know nothing after 15 years , they are constantly cheer leading for one fighter. Its so easy to see who they want to win because every time that guy throws a punch they heavily emphasize it and when the other fighter lands something they either ignore it or say something gay like "he landed a counter."

Now they are getting ready to put the fighters into uniforms like they are catholic school girls . This is by far the dumbest step yet. Uniforms were intended to tell teams apart...but everyone is on the same team in the UFC. Its just another ploy for the UFC to line their pockets instead of the fighters.

Last, its the way Dana and the UFC look and talks about other organizations like they are crap. He use to do it with Strikeforce and some of the best UFC fighters came from Strikeforce (Cormier, Barnett, Werdum, Gil, Thomson, Diaz, Souza, Rockhold, etc). Now he's doing it with Bellator, except the one guy that just came over (Zach something) is just about to a title shot in two fights. It just seems like something a huge douche would do imo.

They've also over killed TUF. That shit use to be one season at a time and now they have how many going on? Its really time to kill TUF. There's no need for it anymore.

I watch MMA, but if I didn't bet it, I wouldn't watch half as much.

The UFC needs to go in a complete different direction or it will slowly die. Tournaments (like Bellator) cross-promotions, actually paying fighters, and not hyping everything so much would be a good start.
I'm sure there's a lot more,but that's all I have right now

[MMA_scientist]

For me it is a combination of a lot of things

1- the rules/scoring/judging. I feel that the rules they have now promote the Tough-Man competition style that the UFC loves. I think many of the fights are scored incorrectly and the judges are extremely unpredictable. There are many guys that could have had a totally different career if a few fights were scored better. Or if the bell didn't save the other guy. Or whatever. I just don't like the rules and scoring in general, and even what they do have in place is applied improperly 40% of the time.

2- The UFC monopoly. Is terrible. I don't like the way they do business. I don't like the WWE promotion style. I don't like that Chael Sonnen got 3 title shots, despite only deserving 1. I don't like all the non-sport BS. I don't like that James Toney is the highest ever paid UFC fighter. I don't like that fighters get cut for being boring. I just don't like the way they do shit in general. The lying and petty BS, it should be beneath a professional orgnaization. The have always done this stuff, but it seems to have gotten a lot worse lately.

3- There are too many weight classes/genders/cards. The cards are shitty 85% of the time. The UFC puts one 1 or 2 decent cards a year now. It used to be that every fight on the card was worth caring about. I don't know who all these fuckers are and it basically has to be your job to keep up with it. Now with the women... when there are about 3 women in the whole world that are even passable fighters. And we have the 125ers. I just can't manage to care about all these guys. And then with the constant influx of the TUF guys, I just can't keep up. You cut a Jon Fitch to make room for some chinese guy that does yoga and thinks he might like to try fighting. Too many cards, too watered down, too many fighters across too many divisions. This is probably the single biggest reason I have lost a lot of interest. If it went back to 10 cards per year, full of guys that you cared about seeing, I would probably be willing to put up with the other stuff. But overall the product has gotten much much worse in the last 2 years.

[trotterz]

to me .... there is simply too many fighters .. it is as simple as that .... I prefered when there wasn't so many fighters and that you knew each single one of them really good. Since you knew all of the fighters on a card so good .. .you cared about all of them ... nowadays, since all fighters are always differents/no name .. I don't care about them at all

[poopoo333]

I think the cards are becoming very watered down because they are doing the whole international expansion thing and filling the cards with "non UFC caliber" fighters. The days of stacked cards are over in my opinion. I enjoy the sport so I won't really lose interest. I also am annoyed at a lot of the matchmaking and hypocrisy. I understand they are attempting to put on fights that are best for business, but some just do not make sense. Then again, the current champions are pretty dominant and the next best guys have already been beaten so they need to do some dumb things for fresh fights.


The main thing ruining MMA is Ben Henderson. Fuck that guy.

[Luke]

The judging is killing the sport. Just a few years ago people talked about how bad boxing judges were, but MMA judging is war worse than boxing ever was.
There's never been a boxing champ win decision after decision that almost everyone believed they lost. Ben Henderson has done that three times.

[Luke]

Add the Leonard Garica decisions too

[Svino]

What bothers me more than anything else is the diminishing of the "sport" aspect of MMA and the emphasis on the business-entertainment aspect -- the cutting of talented but boring fighters like Fitch and Okami, and White's disinterest in signing high-quality but less marketable fighters like Askren and Chris Cyborg. I hate the WWE-like marketing and selling of fights and how Sonnen talked himself into a LHW title fight.

Other stuff I hate:

1) There are too many UFC fighters. Unlike other posters here, I like the female division. I think they need to cut the men's divisions down to 5 again though. I'm not saying they should get rid of the smaller fighters, just spread the weight classes out more. I hate it when fighters jump around in weight classes just for a change of scenery. If you can do that, the weight classes are too close together.

2) Like others have said, Dana White is a total embarrassment to the sport. This has been true for a long time, of course. I don't mind the UFC monopoly on principle, since it lets all the best fighters fight each other. It just sucks that they're all under that lying dumbass.

3) The death of live betting. The sheer lucrativeness that was Bookmaker live-betting helped sustain my interest in the sport for a long time and meant I was glued to basically every event. It's all but dead now though. They don't even keep the lines up for most of the fight, just unfreeze them for about 20 seconds in-between rounds. There are still some nice lines here and there, but it's not much anymore. They're obviously getting a lot fewer bets coming in this way, so it basically suggests that BM wasn't making money on it as it was before and that they're willing to kill it, at least in all but name.

[MMA_scientist]

What bothers me more than anything else is the diminishing of the "sport" aspect of MMA and the emphasis on the business-entertainment aspect -- the cutting of talented but boring fighters like Fitch and Okami, and White's disinterest in signing high-quality but less marketable fighters like Askren and Chris Cyborg. I hate the WWE-like marketing and selling of fights and how Sonnen talked himself into a LHW title fight.

That grinds my gears the most as well, but I have put up with it in the past. BUt now with the too many cards/fighters/divisions problem, Im not really willing to put up with it. I put Dana in there with this issue, he seems to be getting douchier every day.

[zY|]

I don't hate it. I still watch every UFC card. I just don't really follow the rest of the nonsense that goes along with the fights.

[JimGunn]

This thread really turned into a UFC bashing thread. I'm going to give the contrary opinion here and say that I like having more fight cards. The more the better- one UFC card per week is great even if it has a lot of debuting fighters and international fighters. More opportunities to wager the better. Plus of course we get another few televised or online broadcast cards each week with all the other promotions like Bellator, the WSOF, and several others both domestic and international. I don't know how you guys can call that a monopoly, especially compared to the situation with every other major sport league. How much competition does the NFL, NBA, MLB, the NHL have at this point in history?

I agree that there are some things that can be done better from paying fighters more, especially on the low end and taking an initiative to get better judging.

There are other things some of you guys are complaining about that I really don't see the issue. Why would the UFC stop the expansion of the TUF reality show into multiple international formats? It serves a function, spreads the UFC brand into other countries, fills slots on their online platform and Fox's multiple tv channels, it makes money and entertains people. Do you think they're going to do away with it just because some cynical fans are bored of it?

[Svino]

I don't know how you guys can call that a monopoly, especially compared to the situation with every other major sport league. How much competition does the NFL, NBA, MLB, the NHL have at this point in history?

Why would the UFC stop the expansion of the TUF reality show into multiple international formats? It serves a function, spreads the UFC brand into other countries, fills slots on their online platform and Fox's multiple tv channels, it makes money and entertains people. Do you think they're going to do away with it just because some cynical fans are bored of it?

Well, all of those other leagues are a composition of different teams that compete for players. A closer comparison for the UFC might be made with NASCAR or Major League Soccer (yes, this is a thing that exists).

Whether or not TUF endures will just depend on its ratings. I don't think the American version has been doing too well lately.

[MMA_scientist]

This thread really turned into a UFC bashing thread. I'm going to give the contrary opinion here and say that I like having more fight cards. The more the better- one UFC card per week is great even if it has a lot of debuting fighters and international fighters. More opportunities to wager the better. Plus of course we get another few televised or online broadcast cards each week with all the other promotions like Bellator, the WSOF, and several others both domestic and international. I don't know how you guys can call that a monopoly, especially compared to the situation with every other major sport league. How much competition does the NFL, NBA, MLB, the NHL have at this point in history?

all of those sports have player's unions. The UFC is more like the WWE to me... almost not a sport at this point. It is not an acheivement based meritocracy like a sport should be. It is more based on whatever is the most profitable for the UFC. And there are other minor pro wrestling leagues, but the WWE is where the money is. Same with the UFC. It would be like if MLB just decided that the Yankees were going to play the Sox in every series, because it is best for the bottom line. Yeah, it makes sense, but I wouldn't like it.



There are other things some of you guys are complaining about that I really don't see the issue. Why would the UFC stop the expansion of the TUF reality show into multiple international formats? It serves a function, spreads the UFC brand into other countries, fills slots on their online platform and Fox's multiple tv channels, it makes money and entertains people. Do you think they're going to do away with it just because some cynical fans are bored of it?

No one is saying it isn't good for the UFC's business. I was asked why I don't like it. In business you make trade offs. The UFC has decided to go a direction that I don't like, they have lost me as a real fan... they don't care and I know that. I am not saying they won't get more fans because of it, but just that I don't like what they have done.

[Mr. IWS]

The whole Dana thing, Im used to his douchbaggery anymore. Ever since the whole video game thing with Fitch a few years back, nothing suprises me with this guy.

Ill always love the sport, but its just not the same for me. Its lost its luster with me and im not sure It will ever be the same. I know I talk shit on the women and small guys, but I do watch the fights and I dont mind them but when it was just the 5 weight classes, the cards were stacked and spread out every 6 week or so, the UFC was just magic for Me then.

I know the UFC is doing whats best for the brand, but in a perfect world, if there was one league, that had the 5 weight classes, stacked roster from top to bottom, and then the other 2-3 leagues with all the weight classes, women, etc (like strikeforce back in the day) I would love it, but its just not going to happen.

[Mr. IWS]

I think they need to cut the men's divisions down to 5 again though. I'm not saying they should get rid of the smaller fighters, just spread the weight classes out more. I hate it when fighters jump around in weight classes just for a change of scenery. If you can do that, the weight classes are too close together.




this is an excellent point, i would love this.

[Mr. IWS]

This thread really turned into a UFC bashing thread. I'm going to give the contrary opinion here and say that I like having more fight cards. The more the better- one UFC card per week is great even if it has a lot of debuting fighters and international fighters. More opportunities to wager the better. Plus of course we get another few televised or online broadcast cards each week with all the other promotions like Bellator, the WSOF, and several others both domestic and international. I don't know how you guys can call that a monopoly, especially compared to the situation with every other major sport league. How much competition does the NFL, NBA, MLB, the NHL have at this point in history?

I agree that there are some things that can be done better from paying fighters more, especially on the low end and taking an initiative to get better judging.

There are other things some of you guys are complaining about that I really don't see the issue. Why would the UFC stop the expansion of the TUF reality show into multiple international formats? It serves a function, spreads the UFC brand into other countries, fills slots on their online platform and Fox's multiple tv channels, it makes money and entertains people. Do you think they're going to do away with it just because some cynical fans are bored of it?

Jim, im curious. How long have you been watching MMA?

[MMA_scientist]

Ill always love the sport, but its just not the same for me. Its lost its luster with me and im not sure It will ever be the same. I know I talk shit on the women and small guys, but I do watch the fights and I dont mind them but when it was just the 5 weight classes, the cards were stacked and spread out every 6 week or so, the UFC was just magic for Me then. .

This is pretty much how I feel. I still like MMA, I still watch it, I still train. But back in like 2009, every UFC was an event, I would get together with ma boyz and eat some wings and bet on the fights and it was great. Occasionally I would hang out around here and chill with you losers, and it was still awesome because every fight was a decent matchup and we knew all the fighters. If you wanted to watch some random MMA with no real significance, there was HDNet fights on Fridays, or SF contenders or whatever, to fill in that gap. If you wanted to watch some fixed fights with pro wrestling promo and lose all your money on Sokodjou, you could watch Japanese MMA

[Luke]

This is pretty much how I feel. I still like MMA, I still watch it, I still train. But back in like 2009, every UFC was an event, I would get together with ma boyz and eat some wings and bet on the fights and it was great. Occasionally I would hang out around here and chill with you losers, and it was still awesome because every fight was a decent matchup and we knew all the fighters. If you wanted to watch some random MMA with no real significance, there was HDNet fights on Fridays, or SF contenders or whatever, to fill in that gap. If you wanted to watch some fixed fights with pro wrestling promo and lose all your money on Sokodjou, you could watch Japanese MMA

+1

The cards use to be special, or stacked . Now they are just meh.

Robert Whitaker-Stephen Thompson and Mike Pyle-TJ Waldburger were just on the main card of a PPV..........nuff said

[Luke]

This thread really turned into a UFC bashing thread. I'm going to give the contrary opinion here and say that I like having more fight cards. The more the better- one UFC card per week is great even if it has a lot of debuting fighters and international fighters. More opportunities to wager the better. Plus of course we get another few televised or online broadcast cards each week with all the other promotions like Bellator, the WSOF, and several others both domestic and international. I don't know how you guys can call that a monopoly, especially compared to the situation with every other major sport league. How much competition does the NFL, NBA, MLB, the NHL have at this point in history?

I agree that there are some things that can be done better from paying fighters more, especially on the low end and taking an initiative to get better judging.

There are other things some of you guys are complaining about that I really don't see the issue. Why would the UFC stop the expansion of the TUF reality show into multiple international formats? It serves a function, spreads the UFC brand into other countries, fills slots on their online platform and Fox's multiple tv channels, it makes money and entertains people. Do you think they're going to do away with it just because some cynical fans are bored of it?

.................................................. .....

[Luke]

Add the UFCs ranking system to the list of things that are a joke. Before the Maia-Rory fight Maia was ranked #6 and Jake Shields was ranked #7.....even though Shields just beat Maia

[edman5555]

I get how you guys feel about the cards not meaning much anymore. I think that is a combination of over saturation and the UFC just getting old. We've seen so many fights that I think that has to happen eventually. I do still get excited for some matchups. I can't wait to see Belfort versus Weidman.

There is one positive with all these cards. More betting opportunities if you want to make some money. I've been trying to take it seriously this year and I've won six nights in a row. I'd like to keep that going.

[Mr. IWS]

Maybe we are just have that old school mentality and we were comfortable the way the sport was, but the way it is growing now appeals to the younger generation and We obviously dont like it.

[MMA_scientist]

Maybe we are just have that old school mentality and we were comfortable the way the sport was, but the way it is growing now appeals to the younger generation and We obviously dont like it.

Nah, I am happy with change if it is good. I watched MMA even through the pre-zuffa dark ages. I was happy when things improved from 2005 on up until a couple years ago and then we started the decline.

[edman5555]

I will say i agree with others when they say it lost some luster after they cut fitch and okami. Ive always considered it a business and everything that comes with that but to me that was a day the ufc couldnt call itself a sport like the nfl or mlb. Fitch has lost some relevance but okami is still a top guy. Well fuck it, fitch beat erick silva and hes still a top guy so count fitch in the mix.

[MMA_scientist]

I will say i agree with others when they say it lost some luster after they cut fitch and okami. Ive always considered it a business and everything that comes with that but to me that was a day the ufc couldnt call itself a sport like the nfl or mlb. Fitch has lost some relevance but okami is still a top guy. Well fuck it, fitch beat erick silva and hes still a top guy so count fitch in the mix.

Worse to me is the refusal to sign a top WW like Askren or Cyborg. Cyborg is the #1 WMMA in the world. Askren is top 10 for sure. It may be that they are making ridiculous demands, but I it really seems like they just don't want to sign them because they don't like the style of Askren, and they don't want to loose the golden goose (gander) by having Cyborg dethrone Rhonda. It makes is worse when Dana goes around saying he won't sign Cyborg because of PEDS, when half the guys on the roster have been busted.

[Luke]

I don't even care about 90% of the bs. Don't watch TUF, never have.

The only thing I care about is the cards.......and they keep getting worse and worse.

[edman5555]

Worse to me is the refusal to sign a top WW like Askren or Cyborg. Cyborg is the #1 WMMA in the world. Askren is top 10 for sure. It may be that they are making ridiculous demands, but I it really seems like they just don't want to sign them because they don't like the style of Askren, and they don't want to loose the golden goose (gander) by having Cyborg dethrone Rhonda. It makes is worse when Dana goes around saying he won't sign Cyborg because of PEDS, when half the guys on the roster have been busted.
Agreed on the cyborg situation. Ronda is a huge star and cyborg would probably tko her. I bet they fight someday but it will be at least a year. Dana will milk ronda for all he can and give her some time to develope. Only when the cyborg fight is really being clamored for will he let it happen. You almost cant blame him from a business standpoint.

[JimGunn]

Jim, im curious. How long have you been watching MMA?

I had seen a couple of the early UFCs on VHS back in the 1990s and was aware of the Gracies and the UFC ever since then, but I used to travel a lot and not watch much tv so I didn't really give it much thought again until 2005 with the first season of TUF. Ever since then I started watching every UFC card, Strikeforce card, the old WEC, Elite XC and all the other promotions that were on tv.

[Mr. IWS]

I had seen a couple of the early UFCs on VHS back in the 1990s and was aware of the Gracies and the UFC ever since then, but I used to travel a lot and not watch much tv so I didn't really give it much thought again until 2005 with the first season of TUF. Ever since then I started watching every UFC card, Strikeforce card, the old WEC, Elite XC and all the other promotions that were on tv.

::handshake::

[Mr. IWS]

Don't watch TUF, never have.



Im not much of a TUF watcher myself. I check it out from time to time when Im bored, but the only season I ever watched every week was the one with Kimbo.

I saw season one off an on, but didnt watch it from beginning to end until a year or two later.

[Luke]

Its not that I wouldn't like to watch something like TUF, its that its too scripted. I can't stand scripted reality shows. Also, I could careless about what happens in the house and their lives, I'd just want to see the training and fights.

[Luke]

I had seen a couple of the early UFCs on VHS back in the 1990s and was aware of the Gracies and the UFC ever since then, but I used to travel a lot and not watch much tv so I didn't really give it much thought again until 2005 with the first season of TUF. Ever since then I started watching every UFC card, Strikeforce card, the old WEC, Elite XC and all the other promotions that were on tv.

And you don't think charging the same amount for watered-down PPV's as they use to charge for stacked cards is an issue?

[edman5555]

They even upped the price for anderson silva vs weidman.

[JimGunn]

And you don't think charging the same amount for watered-down PPV's as they use to charge for stacked cards is an issue?

I agree that the price they charge for PPVs is rather expensive even for the stacked cards.

[Svino]

I had seen a couple of the early UFCs on VHS back in the 1990s and was aware of the Gracies and the UFC ever since then, but I used to travel a lot and not watch much tv so I didn't really give it much thought again until 2005 with the first season of TUF. Ever since then I started watching every UFC card, Strikeforce card, the old WEC, Elite XC and all the other promotions that were on tv.

Interesting, that's almost exactly my pattern (except for the fact that I rarely watched WEC once it was only little guys).

[Luke]

I agree that the price they charge for PPVs is rather expensive even for the stacked cards.

My point was they are still charging the same price (sometimes more) for cards that are far worse than cards from just a few years ago.