Strikeforce October 9th

[poopoo333]

http://mmajunkie.com/news/20382/kaufman ... a#comments (http://mmajunkie.com/news/20382/kaufman-vs-coenen-lindland-vs-rockhold-set-for-oct-9-strikeforce-diaz-also-likely.mma#comments)

Kaufman vs Coenen
Lindland vs Rockhold
Diaz vs TBA

[Mr. IWS]

Hope its Diaz vs. Mayhem.

[SPX]

Lindland vs Rockhold will be interesting.

I'm on Rockhold if he comes in as a dog.

[Luke]

Chad Griggs vs. Brett Rogers will be fighting soon. Not sure if its this card or a later one

[poopoo333]

Chad Griggs vs. Brett Rogers will be fighting soon. Not sure if its this card or a later one

I was wondering who they would have Rogers fight next to make him relevant again.

[SPX]

Rogers by murder. Oh, god, to get a good line on this one. . .

[poopoo333]

Final card:
Diaz/Noons
Thomson/Cavalacante
Kaufman/Coenen
Woodley/Galvao


Lines aren't out yet though but I figure we should start discussing since it's Saturday. I just watched Noons/Diaz 1.. I guess the question is how much has KJ Noons' TDD improved along with Diaz's TDs since then? Noons stuffed all but one takedown (he got back to his feet easy) with ease and Diaz's TDs looked pretty shitty. Noons was lighting Diaz up on the feet as well. I don't anything about Cavalacante. I am leaning towards Woodley but I have to watch some fights first.

[SPX]

Considering Diaz is so in love with his boxing, I'm not sure that takedowns are even going to be an issue. But who knows what his gameplan will be.

[Mr. IWS]

Ill probably be on Diaz here myself.

[MMA_scientist]

I see no reason why Noons won't beat him again. Noons SHOULD be the better boxer, which seems to be the key for beating Diaz. That said, something tells me Diaz is going to punk him.

I think Thomson sprawls his way to a win.

Galvao by sub in the first, or he loses a decision. I might make a prop bet there, rd1 sub or decision...

[SPX]

Line's up!


http://www.bestfightodds.com/fights/2857.png

[MMA_scientist]

I am gonna sit on it, I think Noons will go higher. The line looks about right to me.

[SPX]

I am gonna sit on it, I think Noons will go higher. The line looks about right to me.

Yeah, I don't have a choice since Diego killed my 5dimes account and I've never resurrected it. But I do hope KJ goes higher. I will be on him even at the current line though, provided we don't get a surprise and money comes in on him.

[poopoo333]

Line is dropping, Noons is now +115.

[edman5555]

Im really not that impressed with Nick Diaz. I think Nate is a lot better. I haven't seen a lot of Nick's fights but what I have seen was unimpressive and his record is not that great.

KJ's record is a bit wierd. He is an on and off fighter. Does he take time off to box or what? This will be his fourth fight in 2010 though. So we know he is "on track".

What makes you think Nick will beat him this time Scientist?

[Mr. IWS]

Im really not that impressed with Nick Diaz. I think Nate is a lot better. I haven't seen a lot of Nick's fights but what I have seen was unimpressive and his record is not that great.




notsureifsrs?

[MMA_scientist]

I think Diaz's boxing has improved, and he has more outs. Diaz's weakness is his wrestling (takedowns and TD defense). I think the striking will be closer this time (Diaz had that surgery to fix his cut issue). Noons has gassed before (Heun). Diaz could sub him, outwork him on the feet, or wait until Noons fades...

I am not overwhelmed with Diaz either, I certainly don't think he is top 10 like some guys do. But Noons is basically a boxer with good takedown defense. He has to do what he did last time again. Diaz can win in any number of ways. Diaz knows what Noon's gameplan is going to be.

Don't get me wrong, the only bet here is Noons, IMO... No way I would bet Diaz, but I think he will get it done with his reach and maybe a takedown or 2.

[edman5555]

His eyes still look fucked up but he has been winning lately so I assume he isn't getting cut. Noons doesn't look like a serious MMA fighter though. Thats my problem. He fights on and off. Does he even have an official gym he trains at?

[sbjj]

The fact that this fight is at 170 is preety big IMO. Noons has not fought @ 170 ever, and was not even a big 155er. It will also be a 5 round fight, and Diaz will be pushing the pace big time here. Noons may win the first round, and hang a bit in the second, but IMO Diaz is going to clearly take over the fight somewhere about midway through the second round.

i bet Noons the first time, and if it was at 155 i might do it again. But @ 170 I believe Diaz holds some pretty big advantages.

As much as I would like to see Noons win again, I just do not see it happening here.

[edman5555]

Yeah I was thinking the same. He isn't going to win on cuts and Diaz was landing a lot of takedowns last time. Diaz by Sub would not suprise me.

[sbjj]

I honestly believe Diaz is a top 10... 5 ROUND fighter. The guys cardio is insane. If the fight goes to the 4th and 5th round, there is almost no way I see Noons winning those rounds.

If I can get Diaz @ -150 to -170, I will bet him(I think).

[SPX]

Damn, this line's going crazy. Noons dropped to +115 and then jumped to +160.

[Luke]

Damn, this line's going crazy. Noons dropped to +115 and then jumped to +160.


Its strikeforce ,it probably only took a 50 dollar bet to cause that

[MMA_scientist]

I honestly believe Diaz is a top 10... 5 ROUND fighter. The guys cardio is insane. If the fight goes to the 4th and 5th round, there is almost no way I see Noons winning those rounds.

I buy that... no one can finish Diaz. That said, Noons has the exact style needed to beat him (a better boxer that Diaz can't get down). I think Diaz will win, and I agree that the Noons won't win any round past rd 2.

He was busting Nick up pretty bad last time though, I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to do that for another round at least. My only reservation is that Diaz is stupid. I think there is a good chance he will just stand there and trade with him. If that happens, Noons can probably go all day. He will get worn out defending takedowns, but if Diaz gets all street on him, and just wants to brawl, he will probably get busted up again.

[SPX]

Its strikeforce ,it probably only took a 50 dollar bet to cause that

I often wonder how much money is coming in on these fights. Thousands of dollars? Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands? I'd like to see the reports.

[sbjj]

I honestly believe Diaz is a top 10... 5 ROUND fighter. The guys cardio is insane. If the fight goes to the 4th and 5th round, there is almost no way I see Noons winning those rounds.

I buy that... no one can finish Diaz. That said, Noons has the exact style needed to beat him (a better boxer that Diaz can't get down). I think Diaz will win, and I agree that the Noons won't win any round past rd 2.

He was busting Nick up pretty bad last time though, I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to do that for another round at least. My only reservation is that Diaz is stupid. I think there is a good chance he will just stand there and trade with him. If that happens, Noons can probably go all day. He will get worn out defending takedowns, but if Diaz gets all street on him, and just wants to brawl, he will probably get busted up again.

Diaz will push the pace more this time around. Back Noons up like Connor was able to. I think Diaz @ 170 is just a whole different fighter than he was at 155. And I think we will see the difference against Noons.

Also, Noons has not looked quite as crisp as of late as he did when he fought Diaz the first time.

I honestly think the only way Noons wins this, is by doctor stoppage again. if the fight hits the 4th round, Noons is in DEEP shit IMO.

[MMA_scientist]

^ No one is impervious to the KO. But i agree it is not likely... most likely Diaz is going to papercut him to death, wear him down and sub him late.

Still not betting on Diaz here though.

[edman5555]

Diaz got him down in the first fight. Multiple times I am pretty sure.

[edman5555]

It only went one round as well. Are you sure his CUT problem is fixed? If it is...he is a pretty good bet.

[poopoo333]

Diaz got him down in the first fight. Multiple times I am pretty sure.

Once. Noons stuffed all of his other takedowns easy. And when Diaz did get him down, Noons got up immediately and proceeded to punch Diaz in his gay little face.

[MMA_scientist]

^^ lol. I can't stand Diaz.

[edman5555]

He took him down twice, but once was at the very end of the first round. Kj tooled him standing though. Dropped him and lit him up. I'm honestly not sure who wins this.


WIKI:
To add to Nick and his brother Nathan's striking skills, they are now being trained by former WBA and WBC World Champion, Luisito Espinosa. Nick has also recently been training with Olympic Boxing Gold Medalist Andre Ward.

He has obviously been doing well since then. Winning all of his fights but it's hard to say. I'd guess Noons would probably continue to win standing but Diaz might be a little better than before..that might make a big diff.

Also if he really is a cardio machine that should play out in the later rounds with his size advantage. He should be taking him down a lot..provided KJ's cardio isn't what it supposed to be.

[SPX]

Maybe I'll need to do a more thorough search of my memory banks, but I can't remember the last time Diaz tried to take anybody down.

[poopoo333]

Maybe I'll need to do a more thorough search of my memory banks, but I can't remember the last time Diaz tried to take anybody down.

In his last fight.

[zY|]

Maybe I'll need to do a more thorough search of my memory banks, but I can't remember the last time Diaz tried to take anybody down.

In his last fight.

LOL yeah. He took Mach down 20 seconds into the first round.

And I just realized this shit was this weekend. Nice.

[SPX]

Last fight I saw was his fight with Zaromskis and that shit was all on the feet.

[zY|]

We know. You don't watch DREAM.

[SPX]

We know. You don't watch DREAM.

Nigga, I watch that shit . . . sometimes . . . I mean . . . I've seen fights . . .

[poopoo333]

Actually, Diaz didn't really go in there to shoot, he caught Sak's leg when he threw a kick and was just like "hmm I'll take him down".

[poopoo333]

http://www.bestfightodds.com/events/324.png (http://www.bestfightodds.com)

[brooks85]

diaz needed that takedown too. Mach rocked him right at the beginning of the fight and Zarom got through big in their fight and leveled him. Thats the problem with diaz bros, they eat punches and seem to have 0 head movement. Technical striking is just a bad matchup for either diaz and noons has got it. Unless a bad cut forms i see kj spending 15mins picking diaz apart.

[MMA_scientist]

.58u on Galvao @ +170

[zY|]

diaz needed that takedown too. Mach rocked him right at the beginning of the fight and Zarom got through big in their fight and leveled him. Thats the problem with diaz bros, they eat punches and seem to have 0 head movement. Technical striking is just a bad matchup for either diaz and noons has got it. Unless a bad cut forms i see kj spending 15mins picking diaz apart.

Isn't this a 25 minute fight?

[brooks85]

ya it is, meant 25

[Thewiseman]

I am very confident in Diaz @ 170. Especially now that I realize its a 5 rounder, that I didnt realize till right now. I was gonna increase my units x4 after the new year, but im just bet like that now, but for YTD purposes, keep it the same. So if it seems I am betting big on fights, that is why. That said, 8u on Diaz to win 4u

[Svino]

Could Coenen have value against Kaufman? Roxy was giving Sarah a pretty tough fight up until the slam. Coenen is bigger than Roxy and beat her not that long ago.

[sbjj]

ya it is, meant 25


You honestly think Noons is going to be picking him apart in the 4th and 5th. The same Noons that damn near was ready to pass out at the end of the Connor fight.

Are we also so sure that Noons will carry his quickness and power up to 170.

[SPX]

Could Coenen have value against Kaufman? Roxy was giving Sarah a pretty tough fight up until the slam. Coenen is bigger than Roxy and beat her not that long ago.

Here's what Mike Hammersmith, my nemesis, has to say for what it's worth:

Women's Welterweight Champion Sarah Kaufman vs. Marloes Coenen: One of the heavy hitters in the 135lb division, Sarah Kaufman has rolled through 12 opponents in her career, and doesn't look to be slowing down anytime soon. One of the few high-level undefeated female fighters, Kaufman will put her Welterweight title on the line against former 145lb title contender, Marloes Coenen. Coenen is coming off a brutal loss to female juggernaut Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos, but having given Santos the toughest fight of her career, could be a serious threat to Kaufman's reign.
Kaufman maintains a dangerous sprawl and brawl style that has seen her smash the lower-tier female fighters she's faced, but has had real trouble getting the job done at this level of competition. This issue may be further compounded against Coenen, who is likely the best striker she's ever faced and will come into this bout with a size and experience advantage here. Only time will tell if the weight cut will effect Coenen or if Kaufman can rediscover the pop in her punches in this bout.

My Pick: Marloes Coenen
Kaufman has done well against the female grapplers in the world, but I feel she's biting off much more than she can chew by taking on Coenen. While Kaufman has a good punch and the offensive grit to pummel the majority of female fighters, Coenen has a combination of power, technique and a solid chin that will give Kaufman fits. Combine that with one of the most dangerous bottom games in female MMA, and there's nowhere for Kaufman to go in this fight if she can't finish it early. Call it an upset, but Coenen should put together enough standing to get a mid-fight stoppage over Kaufman, handing her her first loss.

[SPX]

^^^ Bear in mind, though, that this is also the guy who picked Yvel to beat JDS and Volkmann to beat Kampmann. . .

[Ludo]

1.5u to win 2.7u on Noons.

[Svino]

Could Coenen have value against Kaufman? Roxy was giving Sarah a pretty tough fight up until the slam. Coenen is bigger than Roxy and beat her not that long ago.

Here's what Mike Hammersmith, my nemesis, has to say for what it's worth:

Thanks, that's interesting. He has more confidence in Coenen's standup than I would have dared to.

[MMA_scientist]

Thinking about dropping another .5u on Galvao b/c his line is up to +215. I think the fight is a 50/50 propostion. Woodley is not going to holding Galvao down... his path to victory is in the standup. Galvao could sub him, and I think the standup is close. Am I missing something here? Woodley's standup is not that good is it?

[zY|]

I remember Coenen going 3 rounds and making it a fight with Cyborg.

[poopoo333]

Thinking about dropping another .5u on Galvao b/c his line is up to +215. I think the fight is a 50/50 propostion. Woodley is not going to holding Galvao down... his path to victory is in the standup. Galvao could sub him, and I think the standup is close. Am I missing something here? Woodley's standup is not that good is it?

I am guessing the value is on Galvao. I wanted to bet Woodley, I did not think the line would be like this. I still haven't watched vids yet though.

[MMA_scientist]

^I thought woodley would be -170 at the most.

[poopoo333]

^I thought woodley would be -170 at the most.

I thought it would be a little closer since Woodley looked like shit in his last fight.

[MMA_scientist]

^ to be fair, Galvao has not looked good in his last 2 outings. He actually could have lost the decision in that Stewart fight (but he got robbed againsg High, so it balances out). But he has enough for a wrestler like Woodley on the mat IMO. He had trouble with Stewart's very unorthodox guard play... I just don't think he was expecting Stewart's guard to be so good. Galvao is more of a top control bjj guy, but I still don't think Woodley can keep him down unless he gasses.

[SPX]

Thanks, that's interesting. He has more confidence in Coenen's standup than I would have dared to.

I read somewhere else where he said he things Coenen should be the favorite and that she has value up to -250. I thought that was an amazing comment. I mean, if he had said he thought it was an even fight or even that Coenen should be a slight favorite, that's one thing. But -250?

[poopoo333]

^ to be fair, Galvao has not looked good in his last 2 outings. He actually could have lost the decision in that Stewart fight (but he got robbed againsg High, so it balances out). But he has enough for a wrestler like Woodley on the mat IMO. He had trouble with Stewart's very unorthodox guard play... I just don't think he was expecting Stewart's guard to be so good. Galvao is more of a top control bjj guy, but I still don't think Woodley can keep him down unless he gasses.

I remember the Stewart fight. Galvao is more of a top control BJJ guy, but he was sweeped by Stewart numerous times. Galvao did not look impressive in his last fight to me either. He was dropped and almost finished by a guy with ridiculous stand up. I think Woodley will be able to outstrike Galvao, and keep it on the feet for the majority of the fight (if that is what he wants to do).

[SPX]

He was dropped and almost finished by a guy with ridiculous stand up.

Wasn't that guy like the only man to ever KO Jacare with a punch?

[poopoo333]

He was dropped and almost finished by a guy with ridiculous stand up.

Wasn't that guy like the only man to ever KO Jacare with a punch?

Yeah lol, but his stand up looked like shit and that was early in Jacare's career.

[SPX]

Yeah lol, but his stand up looked like shit and that was early in Jacare's career.

I remember he had Galvao rocked pretty bad in the first. But other than that, yeah, I wasn't particularly impressed or anything.

[MMA_scientist]

Patino is a bjj world champ himself... but he is like 42 years old. I was on Galvao in that fight and thought it was a lock.

Galvao held his own in the stand-up with other fighters though. I really think this is Woodley's fight to lose.. but his success will depend a lot on his gameplan. I think if he tries to sprawl and brawl, he still has to watch out, because Galvao has some takedown skill or he can use the failed takedown attempt to transition to half guard which a lot of confident bjj guys do these days. I expect Galvao to gas like he always does after about 8 minutes, but he still manages to win late rounds with top control. Still, I think there is a real good chance that he gets Woodley's back and chokes him or takes an arm.

[poopoo333]

Yeah lol, but his stand up looked like shit and that was early in Jacare's career.

I remember he had Galvao rocked pretty bad in the first. But other than that, yeah, I wasn't particularly impressed or anything.

That was kind of my point. Woodley > Patino in stand up.

I <3 MMA math

[edman5555]

Ok so you guys noticed Galvao and he is a gasser?

[edman5555]

On paper he looks like a good bet. Amazing bjj against a wrestler that tries to submit people.

[MMA_scientist]

If Woodley comes to grapple, I think he will regret that. He can probably get away with it late in the fight. He won't do well while Galvao has gas in the tank. If he is smart, he comes to box.

I still favor Woodley, but I think Galvao has value for sure. Woodley has never fought someone as athletic as he is either.. Galvao is a freak athlete.

[Svino]

I bet on Galvao in both of his last two fights when he was a significant favorite, and each time I ended up feeling lucky he won. I'm worried he's one of those guys who hasn't really been able to transfer his pure BJJ skills to MMA. IIRC, he didn't get particularly close to subbing Patino or Stewart, and I'm doubting he'll be able to submit Woodley, even if he doesn't have the BJJ creds of those two.

[SPX]

Just watched Diaz/Noons and a few thoughts:

This fight happened a little while back, so it's hard to know for sure how much either fighter has changed.

Noons showed some pretty good TDD, but Diaz did get Noons down a couple of times (which Noons was able to scramble out of).

If, relationally speaking, the increase in boxing skills since this fight are comparable then Noons isn't going to have any of Diaz's pitter-patter bullshit and will beat him soundly on the feat. It may not be by a mile, but it will be a clear advantage for Noons.

I think that Diaz's extra size is going to give Noons problems. I hope Noons has been building some muscle in the meantime.

Kind of a weak stoppage. The cut didn't look THAT bad. They should've at least let him go out for one more round.

That is all. . .

[poopoo333]

I bet on Galvao in both of his last two fights when he was a significant favorite, and each time I ended up feeling lucky he won.

Same. The Stewart decision was a gift.

[Svino]

I bet on Galvao in both of his last two fights when he was a significant favorite, and each time I ended up feeling lucky he won.

Same. The Stewart decision was a gift.

Well, I actually disagree there. I think that was one of those "watch it with the sound off" cases. But I was definitely on the wrong side of the line.

[poopoo333]

Well, I actually disagree there. I think that was one of those "watch it with the sound off" cases. But I was definitely on the wrong side of the line.

Lol, I actually remember thinking after the fight "I'm sure the judges saw that for Galvao", but I remember thinking Stewart probably should have won. I would have to watch it again though.

[MMA_scientist]

I thought the Galvao/Stewart fight could have gone either way... interestingly, if it was a bjj match (which it almost was) Galvao would have won like 19-3 IIRC. Stewart was actually reversing him from under side control (not an actual sweep), so Galvao would have scored for each takedown, then scored for passing the guard. Reversals don't score in bjj. Then every time Stewart got on top, Galvao just got up and took him back down, he didn't really do anything with it. Still, I would not have felt it was a robbery had they given it to Stewart.

But if you watch Galvao fight other non-bjj blackbelts, he throws up subs from every where. His last 2 fights were against other high level bjj practitioners. He hit a wicked armbar on Alessio, and he had High (another wrestler) in a whole lot of trouble several times- I think Galvao had his back for like 4 minutes. I think it will look like the High fight on the ground if it gets there.

[Johnny Unreliable]

Going to roll with thewiseman on Diaz.

I think Noons is getting way too much respect after his performance against Gurgel when just about anyone can look good against gurgel. The difference in the ground game is huge and while Noons has good TDD I don't think it will hold up late into the fight as noons tends to gas. Diaz has 5 rounds to work and he's a cardio monster with a great chin and good recovery ...he's going to wear noons out and sub him. I doubt Noons is even a blue belt in BJJ.

I imagine Diaz will be rocked a few times but Noons probably won't follow him to the ground (smartly) and Diaz recovers well enough that I don't think he'll be TKOed.

[MMA_scientist]

^^ agreed on all counts. I just don't like the line. I liked it a lot more @ -170. Diaz does not have good takedowns though. Conor Heun was a decent wrestler and was only able to get Noons down once... it actually went the other way, he got his takedown early but could not get one as the fight wore on.

I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that Noons will be able to avoid grappling for the entire fight. People have done it against much better wrestlers than Diaz (including Noons, who has done it against a better wrestler in Heun- of course Heun should have subbed Noons in round 1, and I think Diaz would have subbed him in the same spot).

[edman5555]

I'm thinking about Noons. He really dominated Nate in the first fight. Did you know he has the following creds?

Boxing
2004 Olympic Boxing Trials Semifinalist
Kickboxing
ISKA Super Middleweight International Champion
US Open International Middleweight Champion
Art of War Middleweight Champion
MMA
PrideFC 2005 auditions for "Best Striker" winner


Also Scientist, isn't Galvao one of the best BJJ guys on the planet? Your really not favoring him against a college wrestler?

[MMA_scientist]

Also Scientist, isn't Galvao one of the best BJJ guys on the planet? Your really not favoring him against a college wrestler?

He's definitely elite. I favor him in a ground battle. I only have said that the bjj guy will win a mat war and that he won't be controlled by a wrestler. I still think that. I only slightly favor Woodley because I think he might force a standup fight. I don't know if he will be able to though, Galvao has good takedowns.

Galvao is a little different too... he is almost a wrestler, like Arona. He usually gets the takedown and then passes or scrambles into a dominant spot... if you watch his bjj, he is not really a guard player. I still think he will drink Woodley's milkshake on the mat though, yes. Even from his guard.

[edman5555]

By drink Woodleys milkshake I'm taking it as meaning lose to Woodley...

[edman5555]

Or beat him? Actually cancel that. Your saying he will beat him.

[MMA_scientist]

I drink your MILKSHAKE! c'mon man. Catch phrase of 2009 from "There Will Be Blood"

I meant Galvao will whup his ass on the ground (at least until he runs out of gas).


One of my top 3 all time favorite bjj vids, Galvao clowning a fake bjj bb, there is a whoel story behind it- please watch, it will make you a fan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyvOTEz7 ... r_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyvOTEz7-8E&feature=player_embedded)

See pretty sweet Galvao bjj highlight with epic battle music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWTd705t1oc

[edman5555]

Woodley seems to win by taking guys down and subbing them..but he is a big beasty looking guy.

[MMA_scientist]

Woodley seems to win by taking guys down and subbing them..but he is a big beasty looking guy.

Yeah, that is why I bet on Galvao... Woodley's standup is not great (but it is better than Andre's). I think Galvao will beat him on the ground and I think Woodley might not know any better than to go there...

[SPX]

I only have said that the bjj guy will win a mat war and that he won't be controlled by a wrestler.

Quite right. That's exactly what we saw in Mir/Lesnar II.

[MMA_scientist]

I only have said that the bjj guy will win a mat war and that he won't be controlled by a wrestler.

Quite right. That's exactly what we saw in Mir/Lesnar II.

A *world class* bjj guy. It is apples to oranges. Lesnar's rank in the wrestling world is well ahead of Mir's in the bjj world. Equivalent skill in the respective sport, I would always favor the bjj guy on the ground. The problem is that we see world class wrestlers or at least All American wrestlers facing guys who have been training bjj for a few years, think Warren v. Georgi or Marriott... But if you put Warren in there with a bjj guy with equivalent accolades, he will get ruled (see Bibiano).

Mir is FAR from a world class bjj practioner. Personally, I don't even think Mir has a very good ground game. We saw what happened any time he has every faced another grappler. People like to blame his accident for his losses, but he himself said he was 100%... I blame his losses on the fact that he was finally facing other grapplers- Pe De Pano would toy with Mir on the ground, TOY with him. Vera, another grappler. Even Christionson, who I have trained with frequently, is only about a purple belt skill-wise. And his biggest subs (Sylvia & Mir) weren't even on correctly, he just powered through them...

Aside from that, I have always discounted the HW division: wrestling > bjj @ HW IMO.

[MMA_scientist]

somebody watch that Galvao match and comment, damnit.

[SPX]

somebody watch that Galvao match and comment, damnit.

I watched it. Kind of funny.

What's the backstory? The way you described it kind of reminded me of the Franca/Manny Reyes incident. . .

[MMA_scientist]

I watched it. Kind of funny.

What's the backstory? The way you described it kind of reminded me of the Franca/Manny Reyes incident. . .

Supposedly (obviously) the guy was a BB in some other grappling art and thought he should enter the BB division... which in and of itself is seen as disrespect in Brazil. Usually if guys want to test their mettle, they enter the purple belt division, though it is not a big deal in and of itself. But then he strapped on a bjj gi and bb, which is a no-no. Still it looked like Galvao was going to let it go. But then he tried to reap the knee (heel hook) which is not allowed in gi bjj at any level. After the attempted knee reap Galvao just starts humiliating him. My favorite parts are when Galvao just rejects his flying armbar attempt and then the somersault into mount is also hilarious. The back surfing and extraneous shove were a little much IMO, but still funny. The guy had to be thinking "just submit me so I can get out of here."

[SPX]

Yeah, it was amusing. I wonder what grappling art the other guy was supposedly a BB in?

Also, would BJJ guys feel that they were being disrespectful if they competed in, say, a sambo tournament at the BB level if they had not actually trained in sambo? Or are they just that gay for BJJ?

[MMA_scientist]

Yeah, it was amusing. I wonder what grappling art the other guy was supposedly a BB in?

Also, would BJJ guys feel that they were being disrespectful if they competed in, say, a sambo tournament at the BB level if they had not actually trained in sambo? Or are they just that gay for BJJ?

Like I said, it isn't a big deal that he went in the bb division, it happens all the time, and usually no one cares. I may have overstated that brazilians think it is disrespect... SOME guys get upset about it when the guy is obviously not going to be competitive. Most don't care about that. It IS seen as disrespect to slap on a bjj blackbelt and gi and pretend liek you hold that rank though... which I think was the bigger issue. That is an ongoing issue in bjj and there are feuds all the time because of it. Most bjj guys are very protective of thier lineage and it is seen as teh thing that separates bjj from other martial arts (and protects the integrity of the art and keeps it from becoming mcdojo). So to just run around mascarading as a bjj blackbelt will usually result in an asskicking in brazil and a sound internet shaming in the U.S.

As for bjj guys getting in a sambo or judo tourney, they do it all the time. I think the issue is pretending to carry a rank. You don't see a lot of bjj guys putting on a kurtka and redbelt and pretending to be samboists. But bottom line, they are gay for bjj... that's just how it is.

Brazilians are also gay for Brazil. If you ever read the pros picks, the brazilians almost never pick against another brazilian.

[SPX]

Okay, I think I understand a little better now.

I think it's interesting how some martial arts are open to anyone competing in any division, and others are closed and you have to legitimately hold a certain rank to compete in that division or sometimes even have to belong to a certain organization.

BTW, LOL @ "a sound Internet shaming. . ."

[MMA_scientist]

^^ yeah. In most bjj tourneys you can enter any division you want and you see judo guys in bjj comp ALL the time. But in IBJJF tourneys (Mundials for example) you have to actually hold that rank. I don't like that rule.

[edman5555]

http://strikeforce.com/news/2010/10/dia ... t-weights/ (http://strikeforce.com/news/2010/10/diaz-vs-noons-ii-weigh-in-photos-bout-sheet-weights/)

Coaenen Kaufman pic. Coenen is much bigger.

[edman5555]

I'm thinking of betting Coenen and nick diaz via Sub. ND via sub is +275.

I see Nick wearing him out and finally getting him down. From there the sub is probably easy for him..I don't think Noons takes the ground game to seriously if you ask me. He is a part time boxer. IT looks like he tries to just use the boxing/takedown d to win. A la Chuck Liddell. Just his takedown D prob isn't as good as need be.

[poopoo333]

I like Galvao at the current odds. I originally thought that Woodley was going to win, but after finally watching video, I barely give him the edge, if at all. I was worried about Galvao gassing, but Woodley looked to slow down against Coy when he was actually "in a fight" and not dominating like usual. I thought Woodley would keep the fight standing and win easily, but I realized Woodley doesn't have awesome striking or anything. Galvao will look for the TD a lot if Woodley tries to keep it standing, and a lot of this fight will probably take place in the clinch up against the cage. Also, Galvao beat High. He only lost the striking in that fight, and I think High had a reach/height advantage...I don't think Woodley will have that this fight to keep Galvao at range. Galvao grapple fucked High the entire first round (10 minutes) after reversing High's TD. He had his back and mounted him "more times then Jenna Haze has been mounted" according to the voice. I think Galvao will win the grappling match against Woodley.

brb betting on Galvao.

also, brb, losing this bet because I am betting against a a wrestler.

[poopoo333]

I am also thinking about upping my bet on Coenen.

[MMA_scientist]

brb betting on Galvao.

also, brb, losing this bet because I am betting against a a wrestler.

Nah we got this. If you think the fight is going to the ground, Galvao is the play. Woodley can't hang on the ground.

I was actually thinking of dropping another full unit after seeing the weigh ins, because Woodley usually looks jacked next to his opponent, but Galvao actually looked bigger than Woodley. But the line moved down... I still might do it if it comes back up

[Mr. IWS]

GL everyone tonight. We turn it round this event.
::handshake::

[Svino]

brb betting on Galvao.

DId you mean 0.95 U to win 2 U?

[poopoo333]

brb betting on Galvao.

also, brb, losing this bet because I am betting against a a wrestler.

Nah we got this. If you think the fight is going to the ground, Galvao is the play. Woodley can't hang on the ground.

I was actually thinking of dropping another full unit after seeing the weigh ins, because Woodley usually looks jacked next to his opponent, but Galvao actually looked bigger than Woodley. But the line moved down... I still might do it if it comes back up

Yeah, Coy was able to take Woodley down and control him. If Galvao gets him on his back, it's over. I think.

[MMA_scientist]

Galvao's takedowns are what I am concerned with. He has good takedowns against other bjj guys, but getting Woodley down is a whole other animal... especially later in the fight. I wouldn't be surprised if Woodly can get away from Galvao and get to his feet. My hope is that he tries to gnp Galvao, because if he actually engages on the ground, I think he will get messed up.

But you're saying Coy was able to hit takedowns on him? Coy was an NCAA all american wrestler too though...

Galvao has some nifty trips and stuff, but he doesn't have takedowns like Coy. Woodley's gameplan has to be sprawl and brawl

[poopoo333]

Galvao has some nifty trips and stuff, but he doesn't have takedowns like Coy. Woodley's gameplan has to be sprawl and brawl

In the press conference, Woodley was asked if he was going to use his wrestling like usual, even with Galvao's ground game, and Woodley basically said "sure, I will be watching my positions more carefully". When High shot on Galvao, he was immediately reversed...do you think the same thing can happen to Woodley?

[MMA_scientist]

He may think he can hang, some guys don't realize or have never rolled with these world class guys, you just flat out can't control them, But my guess is that he is bullshitting.
I don't think Woodley will be able to stay on top against Galvao. Galvao deson't have the greatest guard, but he is still a stud... no one can hold him down. Worst case scenario, Galvao will stand up.. Woodley won't be able to pin him and pound on him from inside his guard. Zero chance he will get a dominant position.

[edman5555]

I put a little on Galvao, but I am starting to think Woodley might be able to win a D. Woodley, coy was close. Coy won the standup but woodley was taking him down more. Coy got him down but overall, Woodley outwrestled Coy.

[Svino]

I wouldn't trust anything a guy says about their gameplan before a fight.

[MMA_scientist]

I put a little on Galvao, but I am starting to think Woodley might be able to win a D. Woodley, coy was close. Coy won the standup but woodley was taking him down more. Coy got him down but overall, Woodley outwrestled Coy.

It comes down to his gameplan IMO. If he comes to grapple, Galvao should beat him. But Woodley definitely has a takedown edge.

I figure there is a 40% chance Woodley willingly goes to the ground. A 20% chance Galvao can take him down regularly. I put the fight at about 50/50. Since Galvao is 2:1, it was a no brainer. But I would agree the most likely outcome is Woodley decision, followed by Galvao submission or decision.

[MMA_scientist]

It is about to start

stream: http://www.channelsurfing.net/watch-strikeforce.html

[poopoo333]

Scientist, what are your thoughts on the Thomson fight? With JZ's never surgically repaired ACL, short notice, and never fighting in a cage...that makes me think it might have an effect on the fight.

[SPX]

Stream's running choppy. Anyone got a smooth one?

[poopoo333]

Mauro....nice hair.

[MMA_scientist]

Poopoo, I don't really have much to say about the Thomson fight. I think its close, both are well rounded and good. I favor Thomson a little, maybe 55-60%, just because of his more precise striking... but I really don't know TBH. I can't see the fight playing out at all.

[MMA_scientist]

lost my stream... anyone?

[Svino]

http://www.justin.tv/bigban23#/w/454452224

[SPX]

lost my stream... anyone?

I've got one at http://pro-streams.com/ on channel 2 but it's a little squirrelly.

[zY|]

http://www.pro-streams.com/

[poopoo333]

Should have went with my first instinct. :burn:

[SPX]

Well shit.

[MMA_scientist]

well that was anti climactic.

Galvao's chin is not good.

[SPX]

I'd have liked to have seen a couple of more punches before the stoppage.

[zY|]

Pretty gay stoppage

[Luke]

I'd have liked to have seen a couple of more punches before the stoppage.


Dont make me bring out the KOS picture

[MMA_scientist]

It seemed quick, but Galvao was not getting that takedown. He wasn't going to win that unless Woodley suddenly just decided to take him down.

[poopoo333]

well that was anti climactic.

Galvao's chin is not good.

He was rocked at the first shot he took, just like against Patino.

[Mr. IWS]

Mauro....nice hair.

+1 on the Mauro's strong hair.

[zY|]

It seemed quick, but Galvao was not getting that takedown. He wasn't going to win that unless Woodley suddenly just decided to take him down.

Last time I checked, failing a takedown wasn't grounds for a TKO stoppage.

i'm sick of this

"At least one new post has been made to this topic. You may wish to review your post in light of this."

Don't care. Post my shit

[MMA_scientist]

He was rocked at the first shot he took, just like against Patino.

Yep. He was rocked by Stewart too... He needs to get awesome at takedowns or he'll never make it in MMA. He is never going to be a striker.

[zY|]

His chin is definitely bad though

[Luke]

i'm sick of this

"At least one new post has been made to this topic. You may wish to review your post in light of this."

Don't care. Post my shit


there's nothing that can be done about it

[MMA_scientist]

Last time I checked, failing a takedown wasn't grounds for a TKO stoppage.

i'm sick of this

"At least one new post has been made to this topic. You may wish to review your post in light of this."

Don't care. Post my shit

Yeah, I am not saying it was a good stoppage, just that I am not upset about it because I lost money, because Galvao was not going to win that unless Woodley got crazy and followed him down.

[Mr. IWS]

Dam, on HD, Marloes got some nice fuckin eyes.

brb, fwapping...............

[zY|]

i'm sick of this

"At least one new post has been made to this topic. You may wish to review your post in light of this."

Don't care. Post my shit


there's nothing that can be done about it

Wrong

[SPX]

War Coenen

[zY|]

Dam, on HD, Marloes got some nice fuckin eyes.

brb, fwapping...............

You got showtime HD?

[Luke]

[quote="zY|":1htoxwzi]

i'm sick of this

"At least one new post has been made to this topic. You may wish to review your post in light of this."

Don't care. Post my shit


there's nothing that can be done about it

Wrong[/quote:1htoxwzi]


Ok then fix it . Anything else you want to whine about tonight?

[Mr. IWS]

You got showtime HD?

Fuck yeah. If it aint HD, I dont watch............except for when Im streaming a UFC.

[poopoo333]

Lets go Coenen

[Mr. IWS]

My wife is picking Sarah, so you guys are fucked.

[zY|]

Ok then fix it . Anything else you want to whine about tonight?

Give me admin for 10 minutes and I will. And give me a few minutes I'll think of something just for you.

[zY|]

My wife is picking Sarah, so you guys are fucked.

What's her reasoning?

[poopoo333]

[quote="IWS Zak":1gg0jq5s]My wife is picking Sarah, so you guys are fucked.

What's her reasoning?[/quote:1gg0jq5s]

She feels bad for the ugly girl.

[Luke]

Hey ZY







How bout BAMA ::lmao::


::lolzorz:: Roll tide Roll

[SPX]

Is Coenen a giant?

[zY|]

SEC teams lose games sometimes because they actually play other good teams.

[Mr. IWS]

[quote="IWS Zak":155yusj1]My wife is picking Sarah, so you guys are fucked.

What's her reasoning?[/quote:155yusj1]


None really. but I swear she is savant picking fights.

Strong Silver hair by the Ref.

[Luke]

Is Coenen a giant?


Maybe compared to you .

[zY|]

Streams keep dying.

[Mr. IWS]

OH SHIT!

[poopoo333]

OH SHIT!

CRAZY KNOCKOUT

[Mr. IWS]

::lolzorz:: Mauro said "TICKY Barber" lol

[Luke]

OH SHIT!


what ? what happened?

[zY|]

Who's got a good stream? Prostreams is garbage right now, and the others have all gone down.

[poopoo333]

Off topic real quick, who wants to see Arianny's playboy pics?

[zY|]

Off topic real quick, who wants to see Arianny's playboy pics?

So yesterday bro bro

[SPX]

Maybe compared to you .

Your mother said you were telling her jokes in bed last night, too.

[Mr. IWS]

OH SHIT!


what ? what happened?

Kaufmann pushed the bitch out the cage, she got knocked out. Lol

[Luke]

Off topic real quick, who wants to see Arianny's playboy pics?



post them poopoo NOW

[Luke]

Maybe compared to you .

Your mother said you were telling her jokes in bed last night, too.


::lmao::

I was just joking . That much like your mom was too easy ::handshake::

[SPX]

Kaufmann pushed the bitch out the cage, she got knocked out. Lol

What the fuck are you talking about?

[Mr. IWS]

I seen them today, they are all grainy, low quality. Will wait for them titties to be pixelated.

[poopoo333]

Off topic real quick, who wants to see Arianny's playboy pics?



post them poopoo NOW

http://forums.joerogan.net/showpost.php ... stcount=46 (http://forums.joerogan.net/showpost.php?p=3616601&postcount=46)

[zY|]

Seriously, anyone have a stream? I got nothing here

[Mr. IWS]

Is this fight real life?

[Luke]

this is what i'm watching .Its ok


http://veetle.com/index.php/channel/view#4cb0ebd32c957

[Luke]

Is this fight real life?


::lmao:: Lol what are you on?

[Svino]

this is working again: http://www.channelsurfing.net/watch-strikeforce.html

[zY|]

this is what i'm watching .Its ok


http://veetle.com/index.php/channel/view#4cb0ebd32c957

Thanks Luke.

20-18 Coenen (I've seen about 30 seconds of this fight)

[Luke]

Off topic real quick, who wants to see Arianny's playboy pics?



post them poopoo NOW

http://forums.joerogan.net/showpost.php ... stcount=46 (http://forums.joerogan.net/showpost.php?p=3616601&postcount=46)


I might do her but only if I was drunk

[Svino]

Whew, finally I catch a break.

[Mr. IWS]

Kaufman = Quick tap club

She better not trip, she tapped.

[MMA_scientist]

Coenen wins by guard armbar

[poopoo333]

lol, I finally won a bet.

[poopoo333]

From the angle it was shown live, I actually thought Kaufman didn't tap and the ref made a dumb mistake.

[SPX]

Most excellent.

[Mr. IWS]

20-18 Coenen (I've seen about 30 seconds of this fight)

I lold

[zY|]

Nice. What were they talking about afterwards? She clearly tapped about 40 times.

[Luke]

Great camera views SF .Instead of seeing what happened all I saw was pale legs

[Luke]

Are fighters retarded? Whats with some of them saying the didnt tap? ::lmao::

[poopoo333]

I might do her but only if I was drunk

I agree. Her nipples are a tad bit too big, I would have to be hammered.

[zY|]

Coenen is so hot.

[Mr. IWS]

Nice. What were they talking about afterwards? She clearly tapped about 40 times.

I thought she was saying she didnt tap.

[Mr. IWS]

Coenen is so hot.

For a guy?

[poopoo333]

[quote="zY|":1vfkaooo]Nice. What were they talking about afterwards? She clearly tapped about 40 times.

I thought she was saying she didnt tap.[/quote:1vfkaooo]

It was more like "Hey, you broke my arm lol"

[Mr. IWS]

I agree. Her nipples are a tad bit too big, I would have to be hammered.


Dont get me started on her elbows.

[Svino]

Nice. What were they talking about afterwards? She clearly tapped about 40 times.

I thought that she was complaining that Coenen kept going after she tapped.

[zY|]

[quote="zY|":trhmctf7]Coenen is so hot.

For a guy?[/quote:trhmctf7]

Don't hate.

[SPX]

this is what i'm watching .Its ok


http://veetle.com/index.php/channel/view#4cb0ebd32c957

This stream rocks. Thanks, Luke.

[Luke]

Coenen is so hot.




ahh......

[poopoo333]

I agree. Her nipples are a tad bit too big, I would have to be hammered.


Dont get me started on her elbows.

They are WAY too pointy imo.

[Svino]

LOL at the fact that clearly the most likely option: "1 of 2 challengers winning" only got 13% of the vote.

[Luke]

Speaking of ugly women I got the body issue of ESPN and it has Cyborg in it showing her whole back side

[poopoo333]

Nick Diaz is a reporter/interviewer's worst nightmare.

[Mr. IWS]

Speaking of ugly women I got the body issue of ESPN and it has Cyborg in it showing her whole back side

Oh cool, I didnt know HE was in that one.

[zY|]

Yeah this veetle stream is A-one

[Luke]

the end of this LSU-FL game is great

[zY|]

Speaking of ugly women I got the body issue of ESPN and it has Cyborg in it showing her whole back side

Oh cool, I didnt know HE was in that one.

It has both borgs.

[Mr. IWS]

the end of this LSU-FL game is great

Im on it too. also losing 110 bucks on florida..........

Les Miles is a fuckin tool box, but his games are exciting as shit.

[zY|]

the end of this LSU-FL game is great

I'd prefer LSU to win, but then again I want more botched time management so maybe they'll fire that clown Les Miles.

[Mr. IWS]

It has both borgs.


Two borgs are better than one. ::thumbup::

[Luke]

Speaking of ugly women I got the body issue of ESPN and it has Cyborg in it showing her whole back side

Oh cool, I didnt know HE was in that one.


Actually her and him are in it. They are side by side and from the back I cant tell which is the guy and which one is the transvestite

[Mr. IWS]

Fuck Stanford too while were at it.

[Luke]

I just took a picture of the magazine I'll upload the two men now

[poopoo333]

Fuck Stanford too while were at it.

I was going to bet USC+10 but then I pussed out.

[Luke]

LOL @ Florida

[poopoo333]

LOL @ Florida

I'm glad they lost. I live in Florida and am friends with people from UF on facebook and all I read on Saturdays is "GO GATORS!"

[Mr. IWS]

Dam, Jigga Man aint playin............

[SPX]

Damn, I thought for a minute that Thomson tapped on the way down.

[Mr. IWS]

Round of the year!

[poopoo333]

The line is still up on 5dimes for this fight lol.

[Svino]

Neat round.

[poopoo333]

OMG, I wish Thomson got the tap there, I would have just put my bankroll on him when he won LOL

[SPX]

That was nice.

I think Thomson stole it.

[poopoo333]

The line for this fight is still up... I hope something crazy happens so I can try and make money off of it when it ends.

[Luke]

LOL @ Florida

I'm glad they lost. I live in Florida and am friends with people from UF on facebook and all I read on Saturdays is "GO GATORS!"


Yeah thats why I hate Ohio State. I live here and even go to OSU but I get sick of hearing the shit all the time

[Luke]

LOL poopoo where is the line still up?

[Mr. IWS]

That first round was on some Hagler/Hearns type shit with the sub attempts.

[poopoo333]

LOL poopoo where is the line still up?

5dimes. They took it off under the Strikeforce section, but it's still up under reduced juice

[Svino]

The line for this fight is still up... I hope something crazy happens so I can try and make money off of it when it ends.

I suspect they'll just void the bets.

[poopoo333]

The line for this fight is still up... I hope something crazy happens so I can try and make money off of it when it ends.

I suspect they'll just void the bets.

I suspect they can suck my balls.

[Luke]

The line for this fight is still up... I hope something crazy happens so I can try and make money off of it when it ends.

I suspect they'll just void the bets.



Yeah thats what will happen

[poopoo333]

They just took it down, darn.

[Mr. IWS]

29-28 White guy

[Luke]

two men ::handshake::


http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t233/luke1899/103_0606.jpg

...

[Mr. IWS]

This broadcast is lacking Gus Johnson.

[zY|]

Thomson going to win

[Mr. IWS]

30-27 Cyborgs

[poopoo333]

two men ::handshake::


http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t233/luke1899/103_0606.jpg

...

I'd do the one on the left, has a better ass.

















http://images.chron.com/blogs/fighting/marzolla_latasha_hot_weigh_in.jpg

[SPX]

Junkie and SD both gave round 1 to JZ. Do you guys agree?

[Luke]

Closer pic for you pervs

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t233/luke1899/103_0607.jpg

[Mr. IWS]

Dam, this is a good fuckin fight.

[poopoo333]

Junkie and SD both gave round 1 to JZ. Do you guys agree?

Naw. They are giving it to him for the guillotine attempt, but Thomson got out and stayed on top and got an arm triangle almost at the end of the round...the judges will give it to JT

[MMA_scientist]

I am with Gil, i have it 1-1

[Luke]

I'd do the one on the left, has a better ass.






















::lmao:: LOL poopoo

[Mr. IWS]

Junkie and SD both gave round 1 to JZ. Do you guys agree?

I do. He did damage with the strike, and had Thompson in trouble with the arm-in longer than Josh had JZ in trouble with the arm triangle.

Thats my 2 cents anyway.

[Svino]

This fight is close. I really don't know who gets it. Maybe 29-28 Cavalcante.

[Mr. IWS]

I got it 2 to 1 for JZ now.

[Luke]

I have it 29-28 Cung Le

[SPX]

Naw. They are giving it to him for the guillotine attempt, but Thomson got out and stayed on top and got an arm triangle almost at the end of the round...the judges will give it to JT

*crosses fingers*

[zY|]

29-28 JZ

[MMA_scientist]

I give to JZ... but it could go either way and it will be ok.

[SPX]

I have it 29-28 Cung Le

LOL

[poopoo333]

I think the judges will see it for Thomson, maybe a split of: 30-24 Thomson, 30-26 JZ, 29-28 Thomson.



I think round 1 is the deciding factor...2 went to Thomson, 3 went to JZ. I would probably give round 1 to JZ.

[Mr. IWS]

LOL @ 30-27

[Svino]

Woah, bit of a surprise.

[brooks85]

i need get ahold of that crack dealer 30-27..

[poopoo333]

How could you give the fight 30-27 to Thomson? That's why women shouldn't be judges. They have stupid f*cking brains.

(I think I heard a woman's name give that score)

[zY|]

LOL at 30-27

[SPX]

My parlay lives!!!!!!!!!!

But that judge who gave it 30-27 to Thomson was smoking crack.

[Luke]

hmmmm....... 30-27

[SPX]

How could you give the fight 30-27 to Thomson? That's why women shouldn't be judges. They have stupid f*cking brains.


Stupid fucking brains, LOL.

[brooks85]

haha my man, josh has a fine coming

[poopoo333]

Thomson just blasted the judges.

in b4 the judges screw him in his next fight