UFC on Fox 2

[poopoo333]

Report: Demetrious Johnson vs. Eddie Wineland Slated for UFC on Fox 2 (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/11/22/2579753/report-demetrious-johnson-vs-eddie-wineland-slated-for-ufc-on-fox-2)

[poopoo333]

Also rumors for Sonnen/Munoz and Ellenberger/Sanchez

[SPX]

That should be interesting. I hope Wineland wins.

[Vandelay]

I thought sonnen was fighting silva in brazil

[poopoo333]

I thought sonnen was fighting silva in brazil

Me too, but that is not until June. Sonnen probably wants the $ and is risking the title shot for a fight with Munoz...this is assuming this rumor is true.

[MMA_scientist]

Please let it be true. I would love Sonnen/Munoz.

[SPX]

I think it would be a good fight and I also think Sonnen would fuck his ass.

[MMA_scientist]

I just want to see Sonnen fight someone legit before he fights Silva again. I think it could go either way, probably going to be a kickboxing match. I think Munoz would win though, personally. The only thing I would rather see is Sonnen/Palhares.

[SPX]

Stann is not legit?

That's silly.

[MMA_scientist]

Well, legit is not the right word... but he doesn't have the right tools to fight Sonnen. He has poor takedown defense and he doesn't have a very good ground game.

I am just glad the UFC is not letting Sonnen dictate what will happen by shit talking. Bottom line is he had his shot and he blew it, he should have to work back to a shot just like everyone else IMO. It is just weird that the one time the that the UFC is being principled, it is teh one fight that everyone wants to see.

[sbjj]

Munoz/Sonnen a toss up? Is this the same Munoz that was put on his back by Dollaway and Leben both, or are we talking about a different Munoz? And i know all about Munoz and his scrambles. But being able to get up after Leben takes you down is alot different than getting up after Sonnen takes you down.

[SPX]

I am just glad the UFC is not letting Sonnen dictate what will happen by shit talking. Bottom line is he had his shot and he blew it, he should have to work back to a shot just like everyone else IMO. It is just weird that the one time the that the UFC is being principled, it is teh one fight that everyone wants to see.

Well let you ask you this, when GSP was scheduled to get an immediate rematch against Serra after Serra beat him, did you agree with that decision?

[MMA_scientist]

Well let you ask you this, when GSP was scheduled to get an immediate rematch against Serra after Serra beat him, did you agree with that decision?

No, I don't remember that he was scheduled for a rematch, but I would not have agreed with that either. It would have sat better with me though, because at least GSP GSP was the champ. But GSP had to win 2 fights to get back to Serra anyway.

[SPX]

I think he had to fight once actually--Kos--and then was scheduled to fight the winner of Serra/Hughes, but then Serra got hurt, so he and Hughes fought for the interim title, etc.

[SPX]

I personally think that anyone--champ or otherwise--should have to fight at least two fights to get back to the title.

I'm actually a little annoyed that Faber will probably get to fight Cruz again at this point. I think he should have to fight one more time.

[Svino]

I think there should definitely be a Sonnen / Silva rematch. It's not his shit-talking that earned it, it's the fact that he beat up on Anderson for 23 Minutes. And frankly, I'm not that interested in seeing anyone else in MW fight Silva.

[MMA_scientist]

A lot of it depends on whether there are worth challengers IMO. BW has no real contenders at this point that haven't already had a chance. They want Faber to be champ so badly too...

I suppose you can say the same thing about MW though (although there are still some marketable and deserving guys out there IMO).

[poopoo333]

Yeah, I don't think Faber should fight Cruz again right away, but there really is nobody else. It would be cool to see Barao/Torres fight for #1 contender spot. Or maybe Barao/Benavidez.

I want to see Sonnen/Silva II as well...but I still kind of want to see Silva fight some other MWs before that just in case he loses..such as Bisping and Munoz

[SPX]

Back when Torres and Faber were the champs everyone wanted to see them fight each other. I think now would be a good enough time to make that fight. Faber will win. Then he can fight Cruz again.

[poopoo333]

I think Torres should win another before he fights Faber. I want to see that fight too though. But it's too late, Faber/Cruz III is already set. They will probably fight at least 8 times, Faber just has to get a win after Cruz beats him every time.

[poopoo333]

UPDATE: It appears the report of Ellenberger vs. Sanchez was a bit preemptive. Sanchez’s manager, Malki Kawa, tweeted Sanchez will not be part of the card.

..

[SPX]

What do you think the line would be on Faber/Torres?

[MMA_scientist]

-200 Faber would be my guess.

[MMA_scientist]

I would like to see Torres/Faber too. Torres/Barao would be good though.

[sbjj]

-200 Faber would be my guess.

You being serious?

[Ludo]

No reason not to assume he wouldn't be at least -200 against Torres. He opened near -200 against Bowles who hits a lot harder and had what we thought was the wrestling to make it a tough fight for Faber. Torres doesn't have the wrestling, or the punching power, or the clinch strength to make it a tough fight. He may not get knocked out because he's tough as hell but I have a hard time picturing a scenario where Torrea beats Faber.

[poopoo333]

I think Faber -200 against Torres would be a gift.

[SPX]

Yeah, I would be all over that shit at -200. I used to think it would be a pretty competitive fight, but today I think Urijah would just dominate him. Maybe not stop him, but at least win a clear decision.

[sbjj]

Shit, I misread it. I thought it was Faber/Cruz. Yea, I could see Faber -200 against Torres, and I would bet him.

[SPX]

Shit, I misread it. I thought it was Faber/Cruz.

Okay, that's it, you're not allowed to post here anymore.

[sbjj]

I just assumed it was Cruz since they are fighting. Who knows, Faber and Torres may never fight.

[poopoo333]

Line guesses on Faber/Cruz III?

Cruz -250/Faber +185???

[sbjj]

Line guess for Pickett vs. Wineland.

[SPX]

I think they'll eventually see each other in the cage, even if the fight is long past its prime, a la Chuck/Wandy.

[SPX]

I just assumed it was Cruz since they are fighting. Who knows, Faber and Torres may never fight.

Don't worry, relax. I was just joking. You can still post here.

[sbjj]

Line guesses on Faber/Cruz III?

Cruz -250/Faber +185???

I would not mind that. But I think it will be closer. The line for fight 2 was closer and Faber proved he could hang with him. I would have to bet Faber @ +185.

[poopoo333]

^^I was originally gonna say -215 Cruz/+165 Faber but figured I'd get flamed

[sbjj]

Don't worry, relax. I was just joking. You can still post here.

I'm relaxed. And i know you were just joking.

[sbjj]

^^I was originally gonna say -215 Cruz/+165 Faber but figured I'd get flamed

Which side would you be on?

[poopoo333]

Line guess for Pickett vs. Wineland.

It's Mighty Mouse/Wineland

Mighty Mouse -185/Wineland +145 ...it will probably be steeper for MM though


Which side would you be on?

I think Cruz will win, but their last fight was so close +165 would probably be the play, not too sure though. I was lucky to get Cruz @+120 in their last fight.

[sbjj]

I was joking with the Pickett vs. Wineland thing.

[SPX]

I'm relaxed. And i know you were just joking.

Actually I was joking about joking. So I was serious. You can't post here anymore.

[poopoo333]

I was joking with the Pickett vs. Wineland thing.

FUCK OFF FUCKER

[sbjj]

FUCK OFF FUCKER

Dude, were the caps needed? That hurts man.

[sbjj]

Jason Reinhardt vs. Joeseph Benavidez line guesses?

[SPX]

Lulzorzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!

Benavidez -2400

[sbjj]

No way man. Benavidez -160

[poopoo333]

More stuff going around:


Hearing Rampage, Griffin, Davis, Evans, Munoz, Sonnen, & Stann are guys discussed as possibilities to appear on UFC on FOX 2

[SPX]

So I wonder how many fights they actually intend on showing this time around.

[poopoo333]

Four.

[SPX]

Well that's a lot better.

[Luke]

Hearing Rampage, Griffin, Davis, Evans, Munoz, Sonnen, & Stann are guys discussed as possibilities to appear on UFC on FOX 2


Are they planing on doing a Royal Rumble?

[SPX]

That shit would be awesome.

[zY|]

They need to put guys like Donald Cerrone, Ben Henderson, Urijah Faber on the card.

[AC88]

+475 for Benavidez against Reinhardt. Reinhard had to get rid of those Octagon jitters. They are gone now.

[SPX]

That's what I heard, too.

[poopoo333]

Report: Mike Russow vs. Jon Olav Einemo Added to UFC on Fox 2 (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/11/29/2596569/report-mike-russow-vs-jon-olav-einemo-added-to-ufc-on-fox-2)

[Luke]

Report: Mike Russow vs. Jon Olav Einemo Added to UFC on Fox 2 (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/11/29/2596569/report-mike-russow-vs-jon-olav-einemo-added-to-ufc-on-fox-2)



thought they cut Einemo,or am I crazy?

[poopoo333]

They brought him back, forgot why though.

[MMA_scientist]

I think he was mixed up in all that dutch Golden shower drama.

[poopoo333]

Rashad Evans vs. Phil Davis Expected To Headline UFC on Fox 2 (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/11/30/2599654/rashad-evans-vs-phil-davis-expected-to-headline-ufc-on-fox-2)

[trotterz]

Rashad Evans vs. Phil Davis Expected To Headline UFC on Fox 2 (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/11/30/2599654/rashad-evans-vs-phil-davis-expected-to-headline-ufc-on-fox-2)




To me, this is pretty much a 50/50 fight
I know people will favor Rashad and that he will be the favorite so I will probably be on Davis if I can get him for high enough odds

[Mr. IWS]

I think its too much too soon for Davis, I like Rashad in this one.

[Thewisemann]

I'm the line is close to what it was before, all in on Evans. I don't see how Davis wins unless he is vastly improved

[MMA_scientist]

Hmm. I think Davis can win with wrestling or with his reach... his striking doesn't look that bad to me, and I think Rashad's striking is somewhat overrated. I will probably bet him @ + odds.

What was the line before?

[sbjj]

I thought Rashad looked incredible in the Ortiz fight. He really seems to have a fire in him that he seemed to not have before.

[poopoo333]

I got Davis @+150 before but the line dropped to like -125/-105

[Thewisemann]

It seemed to have settled around -125 for Evans.

[Thewisemann]

Rashad is the better striker unless Davis has improved a lot. And he had a hard time takin Nog down, I doubt he outwrestles Evans in an MMA match.

[MMA_scientist]

I think Nog's takedown defense has gotten pretty good, but also Davis is a technical wrestler, he is not a bulldozer. He adjusted his takedowns and then started getting them easily. Evans has been taken down by far lesser wrestlers, but I agree that he will probably have a difficult time holding him down. Evans seems to get up pretty well. I agree that Rashad seems to have some extra motivation and I thought he looked good in his last several fights... but Davis is a bigger badder blacker wrestler. If he has figured out how to use his reach at all, I think he could win by forcing Rashad to come rushing in and then taking him down when he does. Not saying it is a blow out or anything but I could definitely see Davis winning. Rashad may have value at that line (though I don't personally think so), but I was just offering a counter point. Plus Rashad was hurt right? I would take Davis probably @ anything + for a small bet. For me, it would be a small bet either way.

[AC88]

Davis is definitely a bigger badder blacker wrestlerer but hes not a badder mma-er. Rashad should take a close decision by being more well rounded.

[Mr. IWS]

wrestlerer

Reeped

[AC88]

^^ That was done purposely. No idea what reeped means.

[Ludo]

^^ That was done purposely. No idea what reeped means.

http://www.investwithsports.com/newforum/showthread.php?18629-IWS-slang

[Luke]

http://www.investwithsports.com/newforum/showthread.php?18629-IWS-slang


reeped for link to the slang

[Luke]

If odds are good will put a big bet on Rashad , he's the one that just lost to Phil Davis for the title right?

[poopoo333]

(http://www.titlemma.com/content/mmajunkie.aspx?utm_source=mmajunkie&utm_medium=banner&utm_content=Partner%2BBanner&utm_campaign=MMA%2BJunkie%2BPartner%2BBanner&source=junkie2)
Evan Dunham vs. Paul Sass targeted for UFC on FOX 2 (http://mmajunkie.com/news/26336/evan-dunham-vs-paul-sass-targeted-for-ufc-on-fox-2.mma)

[edman5555]

tough call on rashad/davis. My first instinct is Rashad but Evans does have great wrestling and physical strength. Rashad is def more exp/more well rounded and the toughest matchup to date for mr wonderful

[Ludo]

tough call on rashad/davis. My first instinct is Rashad but Evans does have great wrestling and physical strength. Rashad is def more exp/more well rounded and the toughest matchup to date for mr wonderful

Negged for carrying the joke too long.

[Luke]

tough call on rashad/davis. My first instinct is Rashad but Evans does have great wrestling and physical strength. Rashad is def more exp/more well rounded and the toughest matchup to date for mr wonderful


BOL......had me confused till I read Ludo's post

[Ludo]

BOL......had me confused till I read Ludo's post

At this point if he's not doing it on purpose then he's in worse shape than any of us know.

[poopoo333]

Sonnen/Munoz is confirmed

[poopoo333]

Cody McKenzie vs Michael Johnson

^^main event?

[poopoo333]

Report: Charles Oliveira vs. Eric Wisely In the Works for UFC on Fox 2 (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/12/4/2610797/report-charles-oliveira-vs-eric-wisely-in-the-works-for-ufc-on-fox-2)

[poopoo333]

George Roop vs. Cub Swanson Set for UFC on Fox 2 (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/12/6/2615557/george-roop-vs-cub-swanson-set-for-ufc-on-fox-2)

[poopoo333]

UFC on Fox 2 Rumor: Michael Bisping vs. Demian Maia to be Announced Wednesday (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/12/6/2617261/ufc-on-fox-2-michael-bisping-vs-demian-maia)

[Luke]

bad fight for Bisping if they are trying to pimp him for a title shot

[AC88]

bad fight for Bisping if they are trying to pimp him for a title shot

You don't think Bisping can take Maia?

[SPX]

You don't think Bisping can take Maia?

I used to would've said fuck no, but these days I'm just not sure. . .

[Vandelay]

Not really. This is the only winnable fight for bisping for them to "convince" the fans that he's ready for a title shot. Okami would be another where he would have a shot.

[SPX]

I think Okami could get him down.

Yes, I suppose I have more faith in Okami's TDs than Maia's.

[Ludo]

Bisping may be a slight favorite here but how long can he keep Maia from getting the takedown? Demian is pretty crafty at getting it to the ground if thats where he wants it. The problem for Maia here is he hasn't necessarily wanted to lately. He may have fallen in love with his hands to the point where he won't go back to his grappling even if he's losing.

[SPX]

I've honestly lost a bit of faith in Maia's TDs. I pretty much think taking Sonnen down was a fluke at this point. It's not that he doesn't work for takedowns . . . it's that he doesn't always get them. He struggled with Munoz . . . he even struggled with Grove.

[Ludo]

I've honestly lost a bit of faith in Maia's TDs. I pretty much think taking Sonnen down was a fluke at this point. It's not that he doesn't work for takedowns . . . it's that he doesn't always get them. He struggled with Munoz . . . he even struggled with Grove.

Well his takedown wasn't really a takedown in the wrestling sense. As I remember Maia pulled a drag takedown on Sonnen. He had Sonnen in the clinch with Chaels back against the fence and he dragged backward and turned to land in mount.

[SPX]

Well his takedown wasn't really a takedown in the wrestling sense. As I remember Maia pulled a drag takedown on Sonnen. He had Sonnen in the clinch with Chaels back against the fence and he dragged backward and turned to land in mount.

Well it wasn't a double-leg, if that's what you mean. But it was still a takedown.

[SPX]

http://i39.tinypic.com/2sb05ld.gif

[SPX]

I'll also post this, from the same event. . .

Better days for Dan Hardy:



http://i42.tinypic.com/2l8vqxh.gif

[Ludo]

Well it wasn't a double-leg, if that's what you mean. But it was still a takedown.

That is what I meant. If he had gone for a double leg Chael probably would have stopped it or ended up on top. Maia threw something Sonnen never expected and thats probably got a bit to do with why it worked.

[SPX]

Could be. Though that was a pretty Greco-esque move minus what looks like some leg action.

Maybe it was a lesson for Sonnen, because with the way he's been performing lately, I just can't see him falling into that trap again.

[Ludo]

I'll also post this, from the same event. . .

Better days for Dan Hardy:



http://i42.tinypic.com/2l8vqxh.gif

Hardy's only UFC finish...

[Ludo]

Could be. Though that was a pretty Greco-esque move minus what looks like some leg action.

Maybe it was a lesson for Sonnen, because with the way he's been performing lately, I just can't see him falling into that trap again.

Oh absolutely not. I doubt that kind of maneuver ever works on Sonnen again. I do think Maia is still all wrong with Sonnen, though if they fought right now Chael might elect to stand and trade, he definitely has more power in his strikes.

[SPX]

Hardy's only UFC finish...

War Hardy. Fuck the haters.

[SPX]

Oh absolutely not. I doubt that kind of maneuver ever works on Sonnen again. I do think Maia is still all wrong with Sonnen, though if they fought right now Chael might elect to stand and trade, he definitely has more power in his strikes.

Chael's standup is underrated, I think. Though it's hard to get too much info considering all his fights only stay on the feet for about .08 seconds.

[Ludo]

Chael's standup is underrated, I think. Though it's hard to get too much info considering all his fights only stay on the feet for about .08 seconds.

Well while he obvious strength is wrestling I think if he's forced to stand he's more than capable, and he's strong enough that if he connects it could hurt anyone. He did drop Anderson after all. I try not to put too much stock into that since I'm pretty sure nobody, including Anderson, thought Chael would even throw a punch. But the fact is he hit Silva hard enough to drop him.

[MMA_scientist]

Maia has gotten the takedown in every fight he has had except Silva and Marquart (I firmly believe he would get Marq down though and rape him in a rematch). It is also worth noting that Maia has faced a lot of guys from a wrestling base in the UFC (Herman, Miller, Munoz, Sonnen, Miranda). If Mayhem can get Bisping down, Maia can IMO (don't forget that Mayhem fought much of his career at WW and Bisping at LHW). Maia by submission. Also, Bisping won't be able to put him away standing either, and may get beat there too. All in on Maia.

[poopoo333]

. . . he even struggled with Grove.

He took him down easily and dominated him for 2 rounds. Then in the 3rd round he just stood with Grove.

[sbjj]

Agree with Scientist. I would not be at all surprised if Maia held his own standing.

[poopoo333]

The UFC on Fox Fight Card:
Rashad Evans vs Phil Davis
Chael Sonnen vs Mark Munoz
Michael Bisping vs Demian Maia
Demetrious Johnson vs Eddie Wineland
Evan Dunahm vs Paul Sass
John Olav Einemo vs Mike Russow
Cody McKenzie vs Michael Johnson
Charles Oliveira vs Eric Wisely
George Roop vs Cub Swanson

[Ludo]

He took him down easily and dominated him for 2 rounds. Then in the 3rd round he just stood with Grove.

Actually he went like 5 of 13 on takedowns against Grove. 30% isn't "easily".

[poopoo333]

Negged.

[SPX]

Actually he went like 5 of 13 on takedowns against Grove. 30% isn't "easily".


^^^ This.

Maia won, but struggled to do so, and Grove even took a round.

[poopoo333]

It wasn't much of a struggle...when it got to the mat it was like watching Grove get fucked in the ass.

[SPX]

No, it was not.

I had a bet on Maia and my recurring thought was, Why the fuck is he sucking?

[poopoo333]

No, it was not.

I had a bet on Maia and my recurring thought was, Why the fuck is he sucking?

Because he didn't get an instant sub?

[SPX]

Well actually he didn't get ANY subs.

And Kendall held his own and defended well. Neither round that Maia won was utter domination. I just expected more.

[MMA_scientist]

Maia was in complete control of that fight. He definitely took rd 3 off though. I think his new steroid muscles caused more fatigue than was expected. I personally think he beat Munoz (as do a lot of people). I was bing hyperbolic about the fight, as Bisping could definitely win, but he pretty much has to fight a perfect fightof running and jabbing. Maia can win a takedown decision, a submission, or could hang in there standing and win a pressing forward decision.

[poopoo333]

Opening line guesses on FOX fights?

Mine..

Rashad -210/Davis +165

Sonnen -230/Munoz +180

Bisping -160/Maia +125

[MMA_scientist]

I think Maia will open as the favorite.

[Mr. IWS]

I think Rashad will be around -340

[poopoo333]

Did anybody just watch the press conference? It was hilarious. Rashad/Davis got into a little argument and Rashad said something like "I am gonna put my hands on you more than that other guy did to the other kids at Penn State".

[MMA_scientist]

I will be on Davis.

[poopoo333]

http://a.yfrog.com/img619/6958/nm2hxm.jpg

[Mr. IWS]

Did anybody just watch the press conference? It was hilarious. Rashad/Davis got into a little argument and Rashad said something like "I am gonna put my hands on you more than that other guy did to the other kids at Penn State".

Fuckin Bulz. I was one of those Rashad Haters, plus no matter what side of his fights I bet, I was wrong, but I kinda like this guy now.

[Mr. IWS]

I will be on Davis.

Srs?

[poopoo333]

I'll be on Davis too.



Just not as much as Sandusky.

[poopoo333]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/817972/Chael-Munoz_SD.jpg
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/817968/Evans-Davis_SD.jpg

[poopoo333]

btw, Sonnen/Munoz fights Silva, Bisping/Maia fight winner of that fight. inb4SilvavsMaia2

[Mr. IWS]

I'll be on Davis too.



Just not as much as Sandusky.

::thumbdown::

Davis doest have the lat spread to deal with Rashad son!

[MMA_scientist]

I will be on Davis.

depending on the line, but yeah, I like Davis as a dog.

[sbjj]

God, if they would have booked Sonnen-Bisping...that would have been epic. Just imagine the trash talk leading up to it.

[SPX]

I would love to see that fight.

All in on Sonnen, BTW.

[Ludo]

Opening line guesses on FOX fights?

Mine..

Rashad -210/Davis +165

Sonnen -230/Munoz +180

Bisping -160/Maia +125

Shad was -130 opening last time against Davis. Though the Tito fight kind of skews things. I think it'll be more like

Evans -165/Davis +125

you pretty much nailed the others.

[Vandelay]

Johnny Bedford in for Mighty mouse against Eddie Wineland. All in on Wineland?

[Ludo]

Bedford being fed to the wolves here.

[Ludo]

Phil Davis
@PhilMrWonderful (https://twitter.com/#%21/PhilMrWonderful)
Adding in some new stuff into my diet to get ready for #ufconfox2 (https://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23ufconfox2) @UFC (https://twitter.com/#%21/UFC) y'all better watch out pic.twitter.com/dqCadH6b (http://t.co/dqCadH6b)
https://p.twimg.com/AguTcpPCEAA_8tV.jpg (http://t.co/dqCadH6b)

[SPX]

Excellent source of sparkles, BOL.

[Ludo]

Excellent source of sparkles, BOL.

All in on Jon Jones' half brother.

[trotterz]

I just read an interesting fact ona local forum, didn't verify the info thought.

The statistic was that out of the whole UFC roster, Phil Davis is the one who gets hit the least per round. Less than Silva, less than GSP, etc.

I agree that he doesn't have the best striking offensive at all, but it seems like his striking defense is really good. On the other hand, he probably doesn't get hit much because he take everybody down, and maybe he won't be able to do that with evans, will see

[edman5555]

I agree with Maia. He should be able to press forward a lot because bisping doesn't have big power. If he can tie bisping up consistently he should be able to get the takedown. Also, I agree Maia could have striking on par with the count

[poopoo333]

Lentz vs. Dunham set for UFC on FOX 2; Wineland forced off card with injury (http://mmajunkie.com/news/26670/lentz-vs-dunham-set-for-ufc-on-fox-2-wineland-forced-off-card-with-injury.mma)

[poopoo333]

http://www.bestfightodds.com/fights/4930.png (http://www.bestfightodds.com)

[Svino]

Opening line guesses on FOX fights?

Mine..

Rashad -210/Davis +165

Sonnen -230/Munoz +180

Bisping -160/Maia +125

Pretty solid guesses there, poopoo.

[Luke]

BOL Bisping -220 ............this real life?

[SPX]

I'll be on Maia.

[AC88]

BOL Bisping -220 ............this real life?

http://youtu.be/irp8CNj9qBI

[SPX]

What?

[Luke]

What?

lol ,listen to the first words X

[SPX]

Oh, okay, I get it.

[AC88]

And Bisping is British too just like that band - Bisping's line is a fantasy world. :O Beware!

[poopoo333]

Cody Mckenzie injured...Shane Roller steps in for him against Michael Johnson

[poopoo333]

Maia's line is nice.

[MMA_scientist]

Maia's line is nice.

+1/

I always bet on Maia, but all fanship aside, he should be favored IMO. I will be on Maia for sure. His fight with Munoz was close and a lot of people thought he won (I thought either way would be justified)... now Bisping is -200 to him? How is that right? I really don't get it at all. Bisping can win a decision if Maia can get him down, just bet that if you want Bisping. He won't stop him.

[poopoo333]

Bisping had good T3D but wont maia stick to him like glue on the mat?

[MMA_scientist]

I don't know. Maia is more willing to stand than he should be. IMO Maia's willingness to stand has made him a worse fighter. If Miller can get him down, Maia can IMO.

[MMA_scientist]

Also in the 2012 parlay I will probably go all in on "Not Bisping by sub"

[poopoo333]

Lots of distance bets came out for this as well as UFC 142.

Munoz/Sonnen goes 3 rd distance -195 is nice to me.

[MMA_scientist]

I get burned everytime I think something is going to the distance. I tend to agree though, that looks nice. If I was Munoz, I would come out looking for a takedown immediately, to take Chael out of his gameplan. Plus if Munoz gets off some of the gnp early, he might be able to stop him.

[poopoo333]

Yeah I just bet it. The only way I lose this bet is if there is an early stoppage.

[edman5555]

Munoz chael is a fucking mystery to me. My gut tells me chael but munoz has a real good base and he seems like a real hard working and dedicated guy with intelligence. Guys like that are always improving.

[Luke]

Are we talking about the same Munoz who couldn't get Okami down?
GL with him getting Chael down.

[MMA_scientist]

How do you know what Chael's tdd is like? The only guy I recall actually wanting to go to the floor with him were Okami and Maia. Okami didn't get it done... I think Munoz will try to stand and use his wrestling to get back up after the takedowns and create scrambles. Also, Munoz already beat Sonnen in a wrestling match.

[edman5555]

Not taking a stance but ncaa wrestling does not equal mma wrestling. Chael also has much more experience

[MMA_scientist]

I realize, I am just saying, Munoz has plenty of chops to wrestle with him. He is not going to spend the fight on his back.

[SPX]

I firmly believe that Chael is going to dominate Munoz.

[MMA_scientist]

Is it me against the world again? Because I really think Munoz is going to win the fight, but that it will be close. I won't be surprised to see Sonnen win a decision by any means, but I give Munoz the edge via having more tools and having the ability to nullify Chael's one tool. Maybe Chael dominates the standup though, Munoz's standup does seem pretty shitty.

[SPX]

I honestly get the impression that you just have something against Sonnen because you have consistently not wanted to give him any more credit than you absolutely have to. You're going to do it again here and he's going to soundly beat Munoz and then you're going to do it again with whoever Chael fights next.

[MMA_scientist]

Oh I hate Chael and I love Munoz. I just said all along, I am not sold that Chael is some super Chael all of the sudden after fighting for 7 years and not really doing anything differently (except TRT). I bet him to win when I think he has value. I just expect him to some crashing down Marquart style any fight now. It really is that I don't think he is that good and he has a pretty limited ability to finish, though he did show pretty improved grappling against Stann.

[SPX]

Minus the Maia fight, he has looked pretty incredible since coming back into the UFC. At what point do you let the performances speak for themselves?

[edman5555]

Oh I hate Chael and I love Munoz. I just said all along, I am not sold that Chael is some super Chael all of the sudden after fighting for 7 years and not really doing anything differently (except TRT). I bet him to win when I think he has value. I just expect him to some crashing down Marquart style any fight now. It really is that I don't think he is that good and he has a pretty limited ability to finish, though he did show pretty improved grappling against Stann.

Stanns grappling might be shitty or weak againts solid wrestlers.

[edman5555]

Chael-munoz ---- i cant pick. I think chael's wrestling might work better in the cage. I also think Chael might have better standup, he did drop Anderson. Better standup can equal better wrestling BTW. That is why I say chaels wrestling could work better in the cage. That said, Chael is a favorite and I don't feel comfortable betting him there.

[Luke]

Stanns grappling might be shitty or weak againts solid wrestlers.


So might Munoz's

[MMA_scientist]

I can't say what I think without coming off as hating... IMO the most impressive thing he has done in his career is beat Okami. He beat Marquart as well. Those are the two best fighters he has ever defeated, and they are both pretty good. He was dominant in those fights, but not what I would call impressive, in that he was never even remotely close to finishing either guy (or really any top contender, ever, aside from Silva). But he also got subbed twice and once by Filho right before coming to the UFC. I also think he has benefited from fighting a lot of guys that aren't very good at submissions or stuffing takedowns and he is the beneficiary of a weighclass short on wrestlers.

Munoz has been just as impressive as Sonnen IMO, if not moreso. Munoz has only lost once in the division. He is a little bit more sporadic in that he is sometimes losing before he is winning, but has been getting it done, and IMO Munoz actually has the best win between them, beating Maia. Munoz is 7-1 in the division, while Sonnen is 4-2. I just think he WWE heels you people into thinking he has accomplished more than he really has.

[zY|]

http://i30.tinypic.com/28lqsd2.gif

[SPX]

That nigga got slept big time.

I'm still waiting for that rematch.

[Ludo]

I can't say what I think without coming off as hating... IMO the most impressive thing he has done in his career is beat Okami. He beat Marquart as well. Those are the two best fighters he has ever defeated, and they are both pretty good. He was dominant in those fights, but not what I would call impressive, in that he was never even remotely close to finishing either guy (or really any top contender, ever, aside from Silva). But he also got subbed twice and once by Filho right before coming to the UFC. I also think he has benefited from fighting a lot of guys that aren't very good at submissions or stuffing takedowns and he is the beneficiary of a weighclass short on wrestlers.

Munoz has been just as impressive as Sonnen IMO, if not moreso. Munoz has only lost once in the division. He is a little bit more sporadic in that he is sometimes losing before he is winning, but has been getting it done, and IMO Munoz actually has the best win between them, beating Maia. Munoz is 7-1 in the division, while Sonnen is 4-2. I just think he WWE heels you people into thinking he has accomplished more than he really has.

I would put Sonnen's win over Marquardt ahead of Munoz' win over Maia. Marquardt at the time was ranked like #3, maybe #2 depending on where people had Dan Henderson, and nobody even gave Sonnen a shot to win that fight(including Me). Thats where the term "Marquardt'd" came from.

[SPX]

Not to mention that Marquardt sent Maia to the moon.

[poopoo333]

http://mma-geeks.com/2011/12/09/mark-munoz-vs-aaron-simpson-fight-video-ufc-123/

Munoz/Simpson

This fight should be a good "research tool" for Sonnen/Munoz, since Munoz is fighting another aggressive wrestler. But I am not sure of how different Simpson and Sonnen's wrestling styles are.

[MMA_scientist]

Marquart sent Maia to the moon
Yeah, and Maia humiliated Sonnen. What's your point?

[edman5555]

I hear what your saying scientist. Maybe chael is getting some undo credit. However you shouldn't overlook the fact that chael was able to dominate okami and Munoz was stifled by him.

[edman5555]

That is the key right there imo. However that doesn't mean that Munoz won't win.

[poopoo333]

Thoughts on Lentz/Dunham? I like Dunham to win here, but Lentz could always Lentz himself a decision.

Can somebody post a vid of Lentz/Bocek? I didn't get to see it, would like to watch it.

[MMA_scientist]

you shouldn't overlook the fact that chael was able to dominate okami and Munoz was stifled by him

Well, Munoz cam a lot closer to stopping Okami than Chael did. Chael did not take Okami down either. They both stood with him. Chael won a decision, Munoz lost a SPLIT decision and nearly got a TKO in rd 2. I really don't think it is that big of a deal. They have another common opponent though in Maia, which is a more recent fight for both guys. Sonnen fought Maia after Okami and so did Munoz...

I am not saying Munoz is GOING to win, I just think it is like 50/50, I give an edge to Munoz personally. I am not trying to convince anyone to bet him, just defending myself against the allegation that I can't give Chael credit. I can, but I just think that he has hyped his way into way more credit than he has actually earned because everyone is paying attention to his every move. Munoz has done more in the division IMO, and people are acting like he has no chance here.

[poopoo333]

Chael did not take Okami down either.

Ray Charles? Is that you?

[edman5555]

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/UFC-104-Results-and-Live-Play-by-Play-20487

[Luke]

Ray Charles? Is that you?


BOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Scientist you should watch Sonnen-Okami again. This time with the TV on.

[edman5555]

Ray Charles? Is that you?

Ha good one.

[poopoo333]

Ha good one.

Thanks dude

[Thewisemann]

Chael fought Maia before Okami. And pretty sure he took Okami down alot. It's what made me bet him overarquardt. But for me its Munoz or nothing at the current line

[Luke]

Sonnen fought Maia after Okami and so did Munoz...
.





Chael fought Maia before Okami.



Jesus Scientist ............................do you hate Chael that much?

[SPX]

But I am not sure of how different Simpson and Sonnen's wrestling styles are.

Stylistically I guess I think they're somewhat similar, but in terms of in-cage ability I think that Sonnen would take Simpson down and plug his ass full of cock.

[Ludo]

Chael grapple raped Okami. Okami was so humbled by the loss he went to train with Chael to improve his overall grappling almost immediately after the fight. Chael extended the offer I think and in two days Yushin was sitting on the front step like a foreign exchange student.

I don't see a whole lot of direct outs for Munoz here. He could get the flash KO which is always a possibility with his power, but other than that how does he win this? He might be able to force some scrambles and win that way but I don't ever remember seeing Sonnen on his back, I have a hard time seeing Munoz putting him there.

Okami pressured Munoz and took him down a few times. I don't remember it being anywhere close, split decision or not. I had money on Munoz because I wasn't convinced Okami could beat him and I knew before the decision I was about to lose My bet.

[SPX]

Thoughts on Lentz/Dunham? I like Dunham to win here, but Lentz could always Lentz himself a decision.

Can somebody post a vid of Lentz/Bocek? I didn't get to see it, would like to watch it.

I am fairly confident that Dunham will win. Considering the way that Dunham manhandled Griffin, I don't think Lentz will be able to get his Lentz on, and I definitely don't think that Lentz will win a striking battle.

If Lentz wins, it will probably be by grabbing a guillotine like he did on Lowe and he almost did on Bocek.

[Ludo]

But I am not sure of how different Simpson and Sonnen's wrestling styles are.

I doubt they are too different from a purely stylistic standpoint, but Simpson's takedowns aren't great, as I recall he had a hell of a time getting and keeping Brad Tavares down. Simpson is really just a work horse like Jake Shields in that he'll keep going for the takedown until he gets it, and if you get up he'll go for it again and again and again. With Chael when he gets you down it's unlikely your getting back up more than once or twice in a round.

[SPX]

Ray Charles? Is that you?



Scientist you should watch Sonnen-Okami again. This time with the TV on.

2x more BOLZ than just one BOLZ!

[SPX]

Simpson is really just a work horse like Jake Shields in that he'll keep going for the takedown until he gets it. . .

Yep.

[SPX]

Chael extended the offer I think and in two days Yushin was sitting on the front step like a foreign exchange student.


A humorous description.

I am now imagining Okami sitting on some steps in a Japanese schoolboy's uniform with some thick ass black glasses and a backpack slung over his shoulder.

[Svino]

I have to admit that Munoz has looked a lot better recently than I had given him credit for. Watching his old fights at LHW, I used to consider him a prime example of NCAA wrestlers not being able to use their wrestling in MMA. I couldn't imagine him resisting Maia's takedowns for a whole fight, but he did.

But even granting him this, I think he needs to be considered a serious underdog against Sonnen. In comparing the performance of both guys against Okami for example, Chael comes out far ahead. Since 2004, Chael hasn't lost (or even come close to losing) except by submission, and Munoz has yet to submit anyone. He doesn't even try often.

[Ludo]

I have to admit that Munoz has looked a lot better recently than I had given him credit for. Watching his old fights at LHW, I used to consider him a prime example of NCAA wrestlers not being able to use their wrestling in MMA. I couldn't imagine him resisting Maia's takedowns for a whole fight, but he did.

But even granting him this, I think he needs to be considered a serious underdog against Sonnen. In comparing the performance of both guys against Okami for example, Chael comes out far ahead. Since 2004, Chael hasn't lost (or even come close to losing) except by submission, and Munoz has yet to submit anyone. He doesn't even try often.

It's worth noting that he did go for the sub against Maia and it looked pretty tight for a second there. What's wierd about Munoz is he resisted Maia's takedowns but got clinch-tripped by Leben at least twice(it might have been three times). He has great scrambles though, and he's hard to keep down at least to this point. I just don't see how he avoids Sonnen's takedowns when almost nobody in two different weight classes has been able to do that.

[Svino]

He has great scrambles though, and he's hard to keep down at least to this point. I just don't see how he avoids Sonnen's takedowns when almost nobody in two different weight classes has been able to do that.

Yeah, he's always had good scrambles. But even if he does manage to avoid Sonnen's TD attempts or get back to his feet quickly, is he going to win the fight on the feet? Maybe he can land that big KO punch, but I doubt it.

[Ludo]

Oh I didn't say he would win on the feet, but I do like his chances at a standup war better than a pure grappling matchup. I just think Sonnen has adapted his wrestling to MMA alot better than Munoz has. Munoz is still a high level wrestler but he tends to get himself caught in predicaments for a high level wrestler.

[edman5555]

It's worth noting that he did go for the sub against Maia and it looked pretty tight for a second there. What's wierd about Munoz is he resisted Maia's takedowns but got clinch-tripped by Leben at least twice(it might have been three times). He has great scrambles though, and he's hard to keep down at least to this point. I just don't see how he avoids Sonnen's takedowns when almost nobody in two different weight classes has been able to do that.

I think Munoz wasn't worried if Leben got him down because he knew he would be able to get back up quickly. Not worrying about the takedown allowed him to open up more on the feet.

[edman5555]

Yeah, he's always had good scrambles. But even if he does manage to avoid Sonnen's TD attempts or get back to his feet quickly, is he going to win the fight on the feet? Maybe he can land that big KO punch, but I doubt it.

Chaels chin is pretty damn good.

[MMA_scientist]

It is obvious to me that you guys are all just racists.

[edman5555]

phil davis rashad evans is going to be super close

[Ludo]

About as close as Rashad/Tito was. Davis doesn't have the best shot and his striking is way behind Rashads. I think Evans outblacks the other Jon Jones.

[MMA_scientist]

Davis has a lot of reach on Rashad though. I think it is close as well, but I will be on Davis there.

[poopoo333]

I think Davis will be able to keep Rashad at a good distance. I don't believe Rashad will be able to just KO Davis easily like a lot of people are assuming.

[Thewisemann]

Where do you guys see the line going? I like Evans in this fight quite a bit but I'm not goin to big because Davis could easily come out very improved.

[poopoo333]

Where do you guys see the line going? I like Evans in this fight quite a bit but I'm not goin to big because Davis could easily come out very improved.

I don't think it will move much at all to be honest...the last time this fight was announced and had odds out it was around the current line the entire time.

[poopoo333]

Munoz is injured and out of the FOX fight! Now it's Chael Sonnen vs Mike Bisping jan 28th and the winner will fight Anderson for the title.

...!!

[MMA_scientist]

gay.
Super so gay.

I hope you are going to post a trollface.jpg in a second.

[poopoo333]

gay.
Super so gay.

I hope you are going to post a trollface.jpg in a second.

Nope

[MMA_scientist]

I was more excited about that card than any in the last year. I was going to bet all 3 underdogs and make huge wad of cash by betting a shitload on Maia @ +170. I am so bummed now. I was also going to rake in a bunch by betting "not bisping by submission". I am going to quit watching fighting. I am cashing out and quitting because I hate the UFC.

Post a trollface.jpg and let it be a lie.

[poopoo333]

Munoz out at UFC on FOX 2, Bisping vs. Sonnen now meet for shot at champ Silva (http://mmajunkie.com/news/27013/munoz-out-at-ufc-on-fox-2-bisping-vs-sonnen-now-meet-for-shot-at-champ-silva.mma)

[edman5555]

...!!

Fucking bullshit. Maia was at plus odds.

[edman5555]

I was more excited about that card than any in the last year. I was going to bet all 3 underdogs and make huge wad of cash by betting a shitload on Maia @ +170. I am so bummed now. I was also going to rake in a bunch by betting "not bisping by submission". I am going to quit watching fighting. I am cashing out and quitting because I hate the UFC.

Post a trollface.jpg and let it be a lie.

Yeah what a fucking dissapointment.

[poopoo333]

So Chael -365? That's my guess

[MMA_scientist]

If Chael is -365 I will be on Bisping. I hate Chael and Bisping equally, so I think I can see clearly here.

[edman5555]

bisping isnt even coming close to winning this one.

[edman5555]

unless he pulls a miracle sub out of his ass.

[poopoo333]

unless he pulls a miracle sub out of his ass.

The only thing Bisping is going to be pulling out of his ass is Sonnen's cock after getting literally fucked in the ass in the middle of the octagon.

[poopoo333]

Anything stick out to you guys on prelims?



PRELIMINARY CARD (FUEL TV)


Johnny Bedford vs. Mitch Gagnon
Evan Dunham vs. Nik Lentz
Michael Johnson vs. Shane Roller
Jon Olav Einemo vs. Mike Russow
George Roop vs. Cub Swanson
Charles Oliveira vs. Eric Wisely
Joey Beltran vs. Lavar Johnson
Chris Camozzi vs. Dustin Jacoby



First glance I see Roller, Beltran, and possibly Roop.

[SPX]

I am going to quit watching fighting. I am cashing out and quitting because I hate the UFC.


BOL

I agree it's gay. I was going to make money on both Sonnen and Maia.

But oh well, I still get to make money on Sonnen because there's no way Bisping beats him.

[SPX]

First glance I see Roller, Beltran, and possibly Roop.

Dunham. . .

[poopoo333]

Dunham. . .

Yeah he should win, but I don't feel comfortable betting him in the -200s like I think he may be. Lentz might Lentz him.

[SPX]

I'd take Dunham at -200 or lower. Not sure about higher than that.

I really don't think Lentz can do the Lentzing here, though. Most people thing Tyson Griffin edged him out, and Dunham made Griffin look like a child in the grappling department. I think that if anything Lentz's real chance is by catching a guillotine.

[poopoo333]

Yeah, I think Dunham will win too, I am curious to see what the line is.

The prelim I am pretty damn confident about is Joey Beltran over Lavar Johnson. Johnson's only shot is a big punch in the 1st round and KOing Beltran, other than that, he is going to get tired and end up getting his ass kicked in a brawl.

[poopoo333]

I think Roller has the TDs and the sub game to beat Michael Johnson...if Brookins was able to take Johnson down and beat him up fairly easily (except the 1st round where his face was a pinata), Roller should be able to.

Russow will probably beat J.O.E. with the hammer fist of doom.


But seriously...Chael is going to merk Bisping. All in.

[SPX]

The prelim I am pretty damn confident about is Joey Beltran over Lavar Johnson. Johnson's only shot is a big punch in the 1st round and KOing Beltran, other than that, he is going to get tired and end up getting his ass kicked in a brawl.

I really don't know anything about Johnson, but I support the Mexecutioner all the way, so I like the way you think.

[poopoo333]

Johnson is just a big dude that hits pretty hard, but is slow, has bad gas tank, and is just not that good. I am really hoping for a good line on Beltran in this fight.

Anybody disagree with me on this fight?

[poopoo333]

Line opens Chael -450, Bisping +325

[SPX]

Gay line...

[poopoo333]

Gay line...

Yeah, but warranted.

[Thewisemann]

All in on Sonnen

[poopoo333]

3rd fight in the FOX Jan 28th is Maia vs Undefeated Chris Weidman!!!

Interesting.

[SPX]

Yeah, but warranted.

It is, but I was hoping for -365. Or -400 at the worst.

[Thewisemann]

Weidman vs Mia is a great fight, but how good of shape is Weidman gonna be in?

[Luke]

If Chael is -365 I will be on Bisping. I hate Chael and Bisping equally, so I think I can see clearly here.


I'd love to hear how Bisping is going to win this fight.

[poopoo333]

I'd love to hear how Bisping is going to win this fight.

DQ. That's about it.

[edman5555]

Dunham will have a big reach advantage on nik "Stubbs" lentz

[MMA_scientist]

If that is the line, I will be on Bisping. Sonnen won't finish him, but Miller was able to get a takedown on Bisping, so I have to thing that Sonnen is going to take him down whenever he wants. Bisping is better than Stann off his back and has better TDD. At +300, I will take it.

Maia vs. Weidman is a great fight. I hate it because those are two of may favorite MWs. Weidman could win that one with top control, but I still have to take Maia. Weidman by decision is probably good.

[MMA_scientist]

I think Dunham will beat Lentz, but I don't like betting big against Lentz.

Who is Oliveira's opponent? Wisely? Never heard of him. Oliveira is going to win.

This has a lot of grapplers and a lot of bettable fights for me. Sad to see Munoz vs. Sonnen go though. I was going to take Munoz and laugh all the way to the bank while you guys called me a hater.

[edman5555]

hater. I am hoping maia comes in as the dog again.

[MMA_scientist]

^ Maia gets no respect from the oddsmakers. He should definitely be the favorite though IMO. I will take Maia to -170. I like Weidman alot, but he could definitely get subbed if he chooses to grapple. Maia maaay be able to get a takedown, but I kinda doubt it. But Maia also has better striking IMO. Weidman could definitely get on top and avoid submissions and win a decision. I think even if he keep Maia pinned for 15 minutes, it is going to be one of those fights that could be scored for the bottom man, like Torres v. MM, Maia does gas out though, he pretty much always loses the 3rd round, something to consider.

[High5]

Weidman -285
Maia +225

@Bodog

[poopoo333]

Weidman -285
Maia +225

@Bodog


WTF?

[Svino]

Do you really think Weidman will try to take it to the ground? I imagine this getting mostly contested on the feet.

[High5]

WTF?

Maia now down to +205

I threw a value unit on him @ +225

[Vandelay]

lol at weidmans hype....sonnens line is stupid. also may have value if it comes down to -400

[SPX]

Just grabbed Maia at +160.