Strikeforce: Le vs Smith

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  • SPX
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 23875

    #16
    Re: Strikeforce: Le vs Smith

    Very interesting stuff, Luke! Thanks for sharing. And I'm sorry to hear about your accident. There's no other way to put it except that that completely sucks.

    Let me ask you a few more questions. . .

    1. How do you feel about San Shou today? I am only mildly familiar with it, but I do remember thinking that before MMA came around it seemed to be one of the more realistic of the competition styles in the MA world.

    2. What was Cung like as a person? Cool guy?

    3. You say that Cung was the "Ali of San Shou." However, you don't seem to be too impressed with the way he's been able to transition those skills to MMA. I'd like to hear some more of your thoughts on this if you'd like to share.

    As for my own MA background, I've mostly been a dabbler. My interest came about when I was very young--around 7 years old--and when I was a kid I was literally obsessed with ninjas. I read everything I could on the subject, watched every ninja movie I could get my hands on, played the shit out of Ninja Gaiden on the NES, etc. That was my goal in life: To become a ninja.

    When I was about 11 I enrolled in a TKD class and got up to blue belt before my dad pulled me out because I couldn't get my math grade above a C. (It's ironic that I'm typing this right now, because I recently got back in school and have to go take a math final tomorrow and am worried I won't pass it. Math has always been a bad subject for me.) Around 15 I very briefly studied Wushu, getting to the second grade rank before getting out because I couldn't pay for the class. And I didn't study anything formally until I was 24 when I studied Judo, getting my yellow belt. Unfortunately, during class on night I hurt my back. It felt like a wicked pulled muscle and I expected it to heal completely, but while it's mostly healed at this point 4 years later it's still not 100% and sudden movements have a tendency to fuck it up and put me in pain for a few days. I'd like to get it looked at but don't have the money.

    Anyway, about a year ago I went dojo shopping again, and looked at two MT schools and a karate school that taught a locally brewed style called Muso-kai that is similar to Kyokushin. I am still looking though, trying to find the right school at the right place. I think I might go look at an ITF TKD place next. A lot of people talk shit on TKD, but it's like anything, it depends on how you train.
    I heart cock

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    • Luke
      10 year vet
      • Oct 2006
      • 30060

      #17
      Re: Strikeforce: Le vs Smith

      1. How do you feel about San Shou today? I am only mildly familiar with it, but I do remember thinking that before MMA came around it seemed to be one of the more realistic of the competition styles in the MA world.
      I loved San Shou.Not only did you have to worry about someone kicking or hitting you you had to worry that when you kicked or hit you them they were going to throw you to the ground. It seemed you had a lot more to focus on in the fight.It takes a lot of skill to catch someones kick and hold onto it while planning a throw with a 14 oz boxing gloves on.The throws hurt like hell sometimes and you'd be like :"why am I doing this?" but I loved it . Scott taught TKD and Karate also but I never took any of it. To tell you the truth I wanted to be a boxer but the closest gym to me was 55 miles so I kind of settled on kickboxing because it was only 7 miles away.
      2. What was Cung like as a person? Cool guy?
      Yeah he was cool .Just another down to earth guy. I mean he was a fighter so he was a little cocky in social setting but not to people he knew.He was a rockstar in the San Shou circle but most people had never even heard of San Shou.Back when Scott and Cung fought they only got paid 5,000 each for the fight and that was for the San Shou Title Belt.These guys didnt make shit for money back then ,one of the reasons they went to MMA. Both guys had normal houses and didnt make much more than the local guy at the factory,most of their money came from their gyms.Just because your on a pay per view K-1 bout does mean you have any money.
      Now that was around 4-5 years ago.Cung was unknown to most everyone back then,now that he's in movies,on showtime and one of the faces of Strikeforce.I have seen him in 3.5 years so I dont know if hiss head got big or not. I doubt it because he was always a pollite person.For example Le and Sheeley were good friends and they fought twice and then hung out right after the fights.He was just a nice guy .Sheeley was the cocky one .But like I said that was before he became moderately famous so I dont know now.

      3. You say that Cung was the "Ali of San Shou." However, you don't seem to be too impressed with the way he's been able to transition those skills to MMA. I'd like to hear some more of your thoughts on this if you'd like to share.
      He was the Ali of San Shou and as far as I know he never lost a San Shou match and never got thrown again except the one time by Scott.
      The reason I'm not impressed by his MMA thus far is because he has basically been fighting San Shou in MMA matches.He doest try to take anyone down and the closest thing to a take down he has done is a leg sweep.He maybe really good at MMA but I really have to wonder when he has no plans to go to the ground in his fights, stand up will only take you so far ,once someone takes him to the ground will the fight basically be over because he doesnt know what to do? I tend to think so. To Cungs defense he should be hard to take down,he spent all those years defending against throws so he should have a decent takedown defense.

      I just want to see him on the ground in a fight.Maybe he'll get to hand pick his oppenants and keep fighting guys that wont go for a takedown.Maybe he doesnt plan on fighting very much longer,he is 38.Until he gets on the mat he's still just another San Shou Kickboxer to me
      2015 MMA BETTING CHAMP


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      • SPX
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2009
        • 23875

        #18
        Re: Strikeforce: Le vs Smith

        Interesting stuff! I'd like to seem him fight more often and really test himself, but he doesn't seem that motivated.

        I'd agree that he seems more interested in fighting guys he knows he can beat instead of fighting the best in the world. I have to wonder, where's the warrior spirit? Do you think he's just afraid to lose?
        I heart cock

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        • Luke
          10 year vet
          • Oct 2006
          • 30060

          #19
          Re: Strikeforce: Le vs Smith

          Originally posted by SPX
          Interesting stuff! I'd like to seem him fight more often and really test himself, but he doesn't seem that motivated.

          I'd agree that he seems more interested in fighting guys he knows he can beat instead of fighting the best in the world. I have to wonder, where's the warrior spirit? Do you think he's just afraid to lose?

          I really think his whole MMA career is just a big marketing scheme. He only fights in his home town of San Jose where his gym is .He's 38 so he cant have many more years left.I really think he's basically promoting his gym in his home town.As long as he stays undefeated it makes him look great to the San Jose people as a MMA fighter but if he were to lose that would take some of the prestige away from him.Lol I have just about talked myself into betting Le

          I think Shields would destroy Le and Le knows it .What can you expect from him though? It would be like BJ Penn jumping into a boxing ring with Benard Hopkins.Yeah Penn has great boxing skills but not against Hopkins just like Le has MMA skills but not top level ones.I think he only fights safe fights for now. Strikforce isnt going to force him to fight anyone either because he can sell out the San Jose arena as long as he stays undefeated
          2015 MMA BETTING CHAMP


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          • SPX
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2009
            • 23875

            #20
            Re: Strikeforce: Le vs Smith

            Originally posted by SPX
            I think I might go look at an ITF TKD place next. A lot of people talk shit on TKD, but it's like anything, it depends on how you train.
            I have to take a "lifelong wellness" class this semester in school so I just registered for Taekwondo. I'm sure it will be a real riot. I'm going to try to kick someone in the head.
            I heart cock

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            • SPX
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2009
              • 23875

              #21
              Re: Strikeforce: Le vs Smith

              Odds are up!



              Definitely not taking Cung Le on that shit. In fact, with a gun to my head my money would have to go on Smith at that line.

              I was hoping Gil would open as a bigger dog.

              Jacare may be worth a bet at that line from what everyone is saying, but I still haven't seen the guy fight.
              I heart cock

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              • Luke
                10 year vet
                • Oct 2006
                • 30060

                #22
                Re: Strikeforce: Le vs Smith

                Originally posted by SPX
                Odds are up!



                Definitely not taking Cung Le on that shit. In fact, with a gun to my head my money would have to go on Smith at that line.

                I was hoping Gil would open as a bigger dog.

                Jacare may be worth a bet at that line from what everyone is saying, but I still haven't seen the guy fight.



                I just posted the lines in another thread .We must have both got the email at the sametime

                I thought the samething .Le's odds are way too high
                2015 MMA BETTING CHAMP


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                • Luke
                  10 year vet
                  • Oct 2006
                  • 30060

                  #23
                  Re: Strikeforce: Le vs Smith

                  I hate to say it now but I was hoping for Cung Le at under -140 to make it a bet for me
                  2015 MMA BETTING CHAMP


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                  • SPX
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2009
                    • 23875

                    #24
                    Re: Strikeforce: Le vs Smith

                    Originally posted by Luke
                    I hate to say it now but I was hoping for Cung Le at under -140 to make it a bet for me
                    I was hoping for -185 or better. That was probably going to be my limit.

                    At the current odds, I'm thinking of .25u on Smith.
                    I heart cock

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                    • MMA_scientist
                      Senior Member
                      • Nov 2009
                      • 9857

                      #25
                      Re: Strikeforce: Le vs Smith

                      I had Jacare at -240. I should made my bet. I don't know that I can take him at -285.

                      All of that crap looks too pricey for me. The underdogs all might have some value. I am not betting unless Jacare comes back down a lot. That is the only matchup I like.
                      2012: +19.33
                      2012 Parlay project: +16.5u

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                      • MMA_scientist
                        Senior Member
                        • Nov 2009
                        • 9857

                        #26
                        Re: Strikeforce: Le vs Smith

                        Jacare is back down a little. The more I think about this fight, the more convinced I am that Lindland cannot win.

                        Here is a video of a one sided beat down Jacare put on Lindland in ADCC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwtQFjjws8w

                        Jacare took him down, passed and submitted him in about 2 minutes. This was a prime Lindland. Lindland is older, slower, and less interested now. Jacare should win this easy. I am actually considering rasing by bet.
                        2012: +19.33
                        2012 Parlay project: +16.5u

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                        • Luke
                          10 year vet
                          • Oct 2006
                          • 30060

                          #27
                          Re: Strikeforce: Le vs Smith

                          I can get Jacare at -250.Looks like people are taking Lidland because they dont know who Souza is
                          2015 MMA BETTING CHAMP


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                          • MMA_scientist
                            Senior Member
                            • Nov 2009
                            • 9857

                            #28
                            Re: Strikeforce: Le vs Smith

                            Yeah the lines came back down, I got 5 units on Jacare @ -250.
                            2012: +19.33
                            2012 Parlay project: +16.5u

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                            • Mr. IWS
                              215 Hustler
                              • Sep 2006
                              • 99907

                              #29
                              Re: Strikeforce: Le vs Smith

                              Originally posted by MMA_scientist
                              Jacare is back down a little. The more I think about this fight, the more convinced I am that Lindland cannot win.

                              Here is a video of a one sided beat down Jacare put on Lindland in ADCC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwtQFjjws8w

                              Jacare took him down, passed and submitted him in about 2 minutes. This was a prime Lindland. Lindland is older, slower, and less interested now. Jacare should win this easy. I am actually considering rasing by bet.
                              This is making me want to get on Jacare, thanks for posting. I may join in here.
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                              • MMA_scientist
                                Senior Member
                                • Nov 2009
                                • 9857

                                #30
                                Re: Strikeforce: Le vs Smith

                                I did raise my bet, up to 5 units, but I couldn't get him at -250. I still bought @-275 though.

                                Anyway, Lindland has to execute a perfect gameplan and make it last for 15 minutes (because he cannot finish anyone standing). Jacare is athletic and is not afraid to throw his hands. For Lindland to win, he basically has to clinch him the whole time, but not take him down, and not get taken down, not stand at range, and not get leglocked or guardpulled or flying triangled (all things Jacare does with regularity). Plus Jacare has already shown he can take him down, in the the ADCC match. Then add in the fact that Lindland is semi-retired and has looked pretty bad in his last 2 outings (even though he beat Negao, it was far from impressive). Its ridiculous, Jacare is going to win.
                                2012: +19.33
                                2012 Parlay project: +16.5u

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