UFC 116 discussion/matchups

[Luke]

Re: UFC 116 discussion/matchups

I guess it's all about how you bet. I only called 2 fights on the card wrong, but went 2-2 in my betting. Oops. Overall, it was a pretty good night for favorites.

Wasn't expecting to lose on Krystof. Maybe Bonnar just came out hungrier knowing it was must-win.

LOL no ,I meant I missed watching all but 2 of the fights .I was with the family yesterday .I didnt mean I picked every fight wrong but two

[zY|]

Re: UFC 116 discussion/matchups

I just don't know how it balances out with Cains cardio advantage vs Brocks size. Which guy wears out first? I'm guessing brock but I don't know. Cain has a lot more tools in his arsenal in my opinion. He could probably wear brock out with a lot of strikes to the body. I'm sure that will be a part of his plan, I'm sure he can sneak some leg kicks in..If the fight survives the first 2 rounds I think Cain will have the advantage. Another thing, brocks takedowns.. As good of a wrestler as he is his striking is so shit it makes it hard for him to set them up. I know people call Cain Pillow hands but he has 8 of 9 wins by tko so he CAN hurt brock but I don't know about putting him away.

Cain Velasqueza by Decision??? I bet the line would be nice.

That's the thing that everyone is saying. 'Pillow fists'. He doesn't have to have power to beat Brock. BUT picking apart Brock for 5 rounds is more than good enough to win!

Pillow hands knocked Nogueira smooth the fuck out.

[Svino]

Re: UFC 116 discussion/matchups

LOL no ,I meant I missed watching all but 2 of the fights .I was with the family yesterday .I didnt mean I picked every fight wrong but two

LOL, obviously that makes a lot more sense. Sorry, should have realized that.

[Svino]

Re: UFC 116 discussion/matchups

I feel really dirty for saying this, but I actually agree with the piece Snowden wrote over at Bloody Elbow:

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/7/4/155 ... lesnar-and

Question: I know Nog has been in some rough spots, as has Fedor, but has any champion ever lost a full 10-8 round before? (not counting stoppages)

After seeing Lesnar demolish Mir, I was starting to wonder if he was the best fighter in the world, even if he hadn't yet truly proven himself as such. After last night, I'd be hard pressed to rank him higher than 4th in terms of pure ability, after Fedor, Cain, and Carwin in some order. (And can you just imagine how badly Overeem would murder Brock in the standup?) His victory in the second round looked like it had more to do with Carwin falling apart than anything else. Admittedly, Brock's ability to show us something new in each fight was continued with his arm-triangle finish.

This fight contains another lesson for us: Remember how Lesnar was going to fight Southpaw? Remember how Carwin's best round is the 5th? Believe nothing you hear from guys' training camps before a fight, no matter how tempting it is to listen to it. If you're getting useful betting information, someone is screwing up.

Actually, I partially believe Carwin's excuse, in the sense that if he hadn't punched himself out, I'm sure he could have gone for a lot longer. But the fact that there is a physical tradeoff in terms of muscle mass vs. endurance raises an interesting question: is it even the best strategy to plan to go for 5 rounds? I mean, I wasn't even slightly reassured by the realization that Carwin had just won the first round by 2 points, because there was no way the fight was going the distance. Maybe sacrificing stamina for extra power in the first 5-10 minutes is a viable strategy; maybe heavyweights should be front-loading.

[AC88]

Re: UFC 116 discussion/matchups

I feel really dirty for saying this, but I actually agree with the piece Snowden wrote over at Bloody Elbow:

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/7/4/155 ... lesnar-and

Question: I know Nog has been in some rough spots, as has Fedor, but has any champion ever lost a full 10-8 round before? (not counting stoppages)

After seeing Lesnar demolish Mir, I was starting to wonder if he was the best fighter in the world, even if he hadn't yet truly proven himself as such. After last night, I'd be hard pressed to rank him higher than 4th in terms of pure ability, after Fedor, Cain, and Carwin in some order. (And can you just imagine how badly Overeem would murder Brock in the standup?) His victory in the second round looked like it had more to do with Carwin falling apart than anything else. Admittedly, Brock's ability to show us something new in each fight was continued with his arm-triangle finish.

This fight contains another lesson for us: Remember how Lesnar was going to fight Southpaw? Remember how Carwin's best round is the 5th? Believe nothing you hear from guys' training camps before a fight, no matter how tempting it is to listen to it. If you're getting useful betting information, someone is screwing up.

Actually, I partially believe Carwin's excuse, in the sense that if he hadn't punched himself out, I'm sure he could have gone for a lot longer. But the fact that there is a physical tradeoff in terms of muscle mass vs. endurance raises an interesting question: is it even the best strategy to plan to go for 5 rounds? I mean, I wasn't even slightly reassured by the realization that Carwin had just won the first round by 2 points, because there was no way the fight was going the distance. Maybe sacrificing stamina for extra power in the first 5-10 minutes is a viable strategy; maybe heavyweights should be front-loading.

I don't want to listen to anything coming from camps anymore. That '5th round is Carwin's best' mythology really messed me up last night.

[Luke]

Re: UFC 116 discussion/matchups

The only thing I took with a grain of salt from the camps is Lesnar would fight southpaw but I didnt factor it into by betting .I was already planning on betting Lesnar big and that info didnt change anything

[edman5555]

Re: UFC 116 discussion/matchups

I guess it's all about how you bet. I only called 2 fights on the card wrong, but went 2-2 in my betting. Oops. Overall, it was a pretty good night for favorites.

Wasn't expecting to lose on Krystof. Maybe Bonnar just came out hungrier knowing it was must-win.

LOL no ,I meant I missed watching all but 2 of the fights .I was with the family yesterday .I didnt mean I picked every fight wrong but two

Bonnar came into the first fight with a broken bone in one of his feet. The first fight was actually close to even.

[SPX]

Re: UFC 116 discussion/matchups

Glad to see Bonnar get a win. He for damn sure needed it.

[edman5555]

Re: UFC 116 discussion/matchups

Yeah did you see his pose at the end? That guy is great. He is a good artist too. Google his drawings. They are pretty cool.

[zY|]

Re: UFC 116 discussion/matchups

I thought Snowden's article was an absolute piece of shit, per the usual. To be honest, some of his points debatably (real word?) had some merit to them, but he comes off as such a pompous elitist arrogant cocksucker that I hope he chokes on his food. And some of you guys call ME an asshole. This dude is in his own league.

[Ludo]

Re: UFC 116 discussion/matchups

Have to agree with zY here(believe Me, that wasn't easy to type). Lesnar takes one of the most brutal beatings I've EVER seen a fighter take in the first round without having the contest stopped and comes back like it never happened and then shocks the world by winning the fight via submission, and this douche actually thinks he should be ranked 4th behind Carwin still? This whole argument about "if Carwin hadn't gassed he would have won" means jack shit because he did gas out. If the ref hadn't stopped the action Lesnar would have never lost to Mir and he'd be undefeated right now. But we don't live in a pretend world of good intentions where if's are reality.

No one should be trying to take anything away from Lesnar's win last night. He just got off a 51 week hiatus and a bout of Diverticulitis to take on a guy who is just about at big as he is, easily as powerful, and a better striker with comparable wrestling skills. He took a horrid beating the likes of which he has never seen before and was dominated to a clear cut 10-8 round with absolutely no question at all and turned it around showing that he not only had a hell of a chin, but a LOT of heart. It isn't Lesnars fault or doing that Carwin punched himself out and didn't train for/didn't fight for a fight that went past the first round.


On another note, Chris Leben vs Yoshihiro Akiyama should be a candidate for Fight of the Year honors. That shit was crazy.

[edman5555]

Re: UFC 116 discussion/matchups

On a seperate note:

Who else thinks Carwin would be pretty nasty if he dropped a little weight?

Say he went down to 255 or so, from 275-280. That would help his cardio a lot( I know he gassed from punching himself out) and I bet he would be able to maintain a lot of his power and pick up some speed. That might be a deadly combo for him.

[Ludo]

Re: UFC 116 discussion/matchups

Sadly if he starts dropping mass he loses the only thing he had going for him over Lesnar in punching power. Would he still be able to beat most other guys in the division? Sure. It's clear him throwing all those punches had alot to do with him gassing out. But at the same time alot of people were touting around how he had so much more experience than Lesnar and it was Lesnar who stayed calm cool and collected under adversity. Carwin made a huge mistake when he started standing up to rain punches down on Lesnar. He should have gotten back on him and put all his weight on Lesnar, make him work to breathe and wear him out. Carwin simply fought the wrong fight last night, either that or he didn't train for jack shit past the first and or second round worth of fighting.

[AC88]

Re: UFC 116 discussion/matchups

If Carwin dropped weight, he would surely lose punching power but he would still have better standup technique than Lesnar. That will never go away.

[Ludo]

Re: UFC 116 discussion/matchups

Lesnar isn't getting any worse in his standup technique either. He's still only 6 fights into his career. He could also employ a less aggressive style and it would likely give Carwin more trouble. He only got hurt when he lunged in for a punch and got countered. If he sat back and let Carwin do the charging in he could likely get a counter of his own or change levels for a takedown.