UFC on Versus 2 odds

[Mr. IWS]

Re: UFC on Versus 2 odds

^^^^^^^LOL

Nice job all you guys that won last night. I know Vlad is old as fuck now, but that shit was impressive the way Bones got him out of there so fast.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC on Versus 2 odds

I don't think either side of the Okami/Munoz has any reason to be gloating. It was a close fight and both guys looked like shit. It could have gone either way... whether you think there was value is totally subjective. On one hand, Okami stuffed his takedowns repeatedly. On the other hand, Okami had very little offense himself. On the other other hand, Munoz was closer to finishing the fight. Bottom line, judges could have easily given round 1 to Munoz, but they didn't. Okami won, it was not a bad bet on Munoz, it was not a bad bet on Okami... but it was brilliant on either side either.

Let's move on.

[SPX]

Re: UFC on Versus 2 odds

Scientist:

I know one of your reasons for thinking Munoz had value was that "Okami has never beaten a decent wrestler." So has Okami beaten a decent wrestler now or, because of last night's performance, is Munoz not as good of a wrestler as you previously thought?

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC on Versus 2 odds

Scientist:

I know one of your reasons for thinking Munoz had value was that "Okami has never beaten a decent wrestler." So has Okami beaten a decent wrestler now or, because of last night's performance, is Munoz not as good of a wrestler as you previously thought?

Yes, Munoz is still a very good wrestler. Okami showed a good sprawl.

I still think Okami will struggle with great wrestlers though. He was not able to implement his own gameplan against Munoz either. I actually think Munoz had a striking advantage and I have no idea why he kept shooting that single. Munoz's shot style does not translate that well, he plays the front headlock game... which is great for wrestling, not great for MMA. Still, I thought he would have an easier time taking him down.

A lot of it was also based on that fact that I knew Okami would not be able to hold Munoz down. I did not have a clear picture of how the fight would go down, but I knew Okami would have to win it with striking. I thought they would be close to even in that department and Munoz would have a wrestling advanatge- which is pretty much how the fight played out. I think Munoz lost because of his inability to change course mid fight. Maybe that is experience. But @ +175, I would bet Munoz again of they fought next week.

[SPX]

Re: UFC on Versus 2 odds

But @ +175, I would bet Munoz again of they fought next week.

Hmm. . .

I dunno, man. If they fought again, I might just stay away, depending on the line. I would most likely take Okami again at -145. Maybe Munoz at +200. But all in all I think that, even if it's close, Okami will win a good 60% or even 70% of the time.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC on Versus 2 odds

But @ +175, I would bet Munoz again of they fought next week.

Hmm. . .

I dunno, man. If they fought again, I might just stay away, depending on the line. I would most likely take Okami again at -145. Maybe Munoz at +200. But all in all I think that, even if it's close, Okami will win a good 60% or even 70% of the time.

I still feel like it is close to a coin toss, which is how I saw it before. Now, I think Okami would be favored, but only slightly. Whereas before I thought Munoz would be favored, only slightly.

[zY|]

Re: UFC on Versus 2 odds

LOL sideloaded.

As far as Okami/Munoz, I didn't think the fight was that close. Okami didn't look quite as good as I expected, but then again Munoz looked even more clueless than expected. I'd certainly take Okami again.

BTW Munoz went 1 for 15 on takedowns. His wrestling hasn't translated to MMA in the slightest.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC on Versus 2 odds

BTW Munoz went 1 for 15 on takedowns. His wrestling hasn't translated to MMA in the slightest.

I don't think his inability to take down one of the better wrestlers @ MW is an indicator that his wrestling has failed... There is more to wrestling than takedowns. Munoz has not been controlled on the mat by anyone. And he has finished a lot of guys with gnp. He would still take down almost any non-wrestler with relative ease.

I agree though, his takedowns in mma do not match his wrestling pedigree. I think he should start considering another strategy. He should go Hendo style and just let his hands fly, he clearly has a lot of power.

[zY|]

Re: UFC on Versus 2 odds

Yeah but he doesn't have the best chin and he's been knocked down by every single UFC opponent.

I think he just needs to shore up his standing defense and learn to mix his game up better. His takedowns suck because all he does is shoot from the outside with no setup. He could barely get Kendall Grove down.

[Svino]

Re: UFC on Versus 2 odds

I don't think either side of the Okami/Munoz has any reason to be gloating. It was a close fight and both guys looked like shit. It could have gone either way... whether you think there was value is totally subjective.

Yeah, it seems like even a 15 minute fight didn't really settle the debate. I think we need a rematch.

Edit: and FWIW, Fightmetric does have stats up:

http://fightmetric.com/fights/Okami-Munoz.html

[sbjj]

Re: UFC on Versus 2 odds

To be completely honest, the only people I have read that actually think this fight was close are on this site. Most people seem ashamed that it was a split decision. Okami dictated the fight for 95% of its duration. You can not fault him that Munoz just grabbed onto his leg and held on for dear life.

And I find it amazing that anyone would actually think that Munoz had the striking edge in that fight...Why? because he landed ONE punch that knocked Okami down. Munoz was losing the stand up big time which was the reason he desperately went for takedowns.

Okami actually landed the best takedown of the fight after he himself was knocked down. I think in all honesty, the fight really was not that close. Its just that one judge gave Munoz the 1st for dragging Okami to his butt for 2 seconds of the round.

[Luke]

Re: UFC on Versus 2 odds

^^^^LOL I think they both suck. Munoz for having no chance at a takedown and keep trying like a goof to get one for 15 minutes and Okami for not being that much better at striking than Munoz.

[Havis Jr]

Re: UFC on Versus 2 odds

The fight was close regardless of what fanboys from other sites think. Neither really had a striking advantage, I think Munoz strategy was terrible and his takedows imo have suffered since he joined blackhouse. He needs to rethink his strategy going forward. His wrestling is still better then most at MW, and scientist is right wrestling is more then just takedowns.

I was very impressed with Riddle and I'm pissed I didn't bet more on Volkman. I saw what kelly did to Veach and it made me hesitant. From now on unless its Hathaway I'm betting big on the ncaa d1 aa when fighting a brit striker.

Congrats on your wins everyone!

[SPX]

Re: UFC on Versus 2 odds

To be completely honest, the only people I have read that actually think this fight was close are on this site. Most people seem ashamed that it was a split decision. Okami dictated the fight for 95% of its duration. You can not fault him that Munoz just grabbed onto his leg and held on for dear life.

I didn't think it was particularly close . . . but I thought it was closer than I had hoped.

I agree that Okami dictated the fight, but the problem if you never know how the judges are going to see things, obviously. Will Munoz be given credit for "aggression" and "octagon control" as he works his takedowns, or will Okami be given credit for defending the takedown and landing a billion hammerfists in the sprawl?

You never know.

No, it really wasn't particularly close, but Munoz did at least win the 2nd round, so it was no blowout either.

And I find it amazing that anyone would actually think that Munoz had the striking edge in that fight...Why? because he landed ONE punch that knocked Okami down. Munoz was losing the stand up big time which was the reason he desperately went for takedowns.

You'll have to talk to Scientist about that shit. He's the only one who said any shit like that.

They both dropped each other one time. Other than that, Okami landed like 10 times as many strikes. Literally.

Okami actually landed the best takedown of the fight after he himself was knocked down. I think in all honesty, the fight really was not that close. Its just that one judge gave Munoz the 1st for dragging Okami to his butt for 2 seconds of the round.

C-Peeps

[zY|]

Re: UFC on Versus 2 odds

It was only "close" in the since that Okami was too passive. Munoz couldn't do shit and had a puncher's chance.

1 for 15 takedowns says it all.