2010 Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC 117

Religion was to be a belief in what is true, not a pop psychology self-help system.

For me, the philosphical truth was always more important. I figured we will never have teh answers to out more universal questions- where did we come from, etc. So anyone's guess is as good as the next guy's. So if I can find teh other kind of truth, then I can get over the hump of the literal truth... it really doesn't matter to me that much. As I said, I have no idea and neither does anyone else. Anyone that claims they do is just blind and thet is all there is to it.

I eventually came to the conclusion that there's no such thing as free will, at least in terms of the classical biblical notion.

I have thought about the free will/determinism issue a lot. There are basically three ways to approach it. 1. Like you do- there cannot be free will. 2. Like Pascal approached. alot of people have heard of Pascal's Wager. Basically it poses the question of whether it would be better ot believe and be wrong or not believe and be wrong. But Pascal was posed with the same problem- we can't choose to believe something. His remedy was obedience. He basically said, just be obedient, fake it. If you seek the truth, it will come to you. I like that and it certainly fits with the christian theology. 3. You have to look at free will and time in plane that we fail to grasp. Free will exists, but to an eternal being, there is no time, there is no forward and backward... we can say infinity, but we cannot truly grasp the idea of forever and ever. For us, there is always a beginning and always an end. When we were kids, we would ask how far does space go... forever, but what is at the edge... now we say teh universe is expanding, but we still wonder what was there before the bang, what is at the edge of teh expansion. We just cannot get it in out tiny little human brains. So teh concept that we ever decide anything is sort of moot for a being that exists at all times past present and future. I like this one because it fits with my Socratic philosophy that I know and understand nothing (unlike Ludo who has inexplicably somehow figured the universe out definitively despite having a pea sized brain and tiny penis).

Retarded.

It doesn't really add up. We agree there

I believe some people are perfectly fine without God. Some speak of it as whether you have the "God gene" or you do not.

I agree that some are fine without God, will be happy. But I think that anyone who ponders these things is by definition seeking. I think no one will be happy without seeking some answer in their life... I personally believe that it is universal. Its just a personal theory. Some people haven't thought about it the you talk to them and realize they just did not know how to frame the issues in thier own minds. Again just a theory.

Like you, I seek the truth and actually get quite a weird feeling when I don't. I am happier this way and better off for it. Even if it turns out to be in vain, the unexamined life is not worth living

[Ludo]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

Well now doesn't this seem like a case of deja vu? Patience has nothing to do with things. Belief in some unseen unheard entity as the all creator that somehow finds time between creation and keeping the universe in order to intervene on a single persons behalf now and then. That analogy about a kid with an ant farm and all.

I suggested something to the contrary of popular belief, perhaps something that does indeed offend and mean to do so. It is meant with a pair of "go fuck yourself" and "GTFO nobody cares about what you think"'s. So sorry to have interrupted the off topic thread with something loosely connected to the current discussion so as to possibly break up a subject that may indeed make some uncomfortable which clearly was the case, and no it wasn't Me. This suggestion is met with hitler like response as though I told ya'll Jews weren't bad or something.

Could ya'll be any less over yourselves here? Do some work on wanting for nothing and want for no more elitist words while your at it. Here we go with the Deja Vu thing again, isn't that wierd?

[SPX]

Re: UFC 117

For me, the philosphical truth was always more important. I figured we will never have teh answers to out more universal questions- where did we come from, etc. So anyone's guess is as good as the next guy's. So if I can find teh other kind of truth, then I can get over the hump of the literal truth... it really doesn't matter to me that much. As I said, I have no idea and neither does anyone else. Anyone that claims they do is just blind and thet is all there is to it.

Well we're kind of slipping into the knowability of anything which is a real rabbit's hole. Ultimately, we could all be in the matrix and not know it. Or we could be in a holographic universe that is nothing more than a creation of consciousness, as some quantum physicists have suggested. Or we could be being tricked by an evil genie, as Descartes suggested. But getting past all of that. . .

I think that, for me, human life is borderlined un-endurable. There's so much darkness and fucked up shit that goes on that I feel like we have to find a way out, and it's probably not going to be a solution that we can come up with through purely conventional means. If that's true, then we'll need the intervention of a superbeing to help elevate us to the next level, and in order for that to happen the superbeing will have to exist and give a fuck.

So considering these real-world, practical concerns, it's obvious why I'm more focused on literal realities rather than merely philosophy. Philosophy won't keep the earth from being incinerated by the sun in a million billion years. I'm sure you see what I'm getting at. . .

I have thought about the free will/determinism issue a lot. . .

Yeah, this has been the cause of lots of arguments for me. Most people believe firmly in free will. I believe it's a surface illusion that seems obvious at first, but when you look more deeply at the situation, you're forced to reverse your conclusion.

It's really not that cut and dry, though. Because at the same time we're obviously not robots. I mean, I make the choice to raise my hand . . . and I do. Or did I? Make the choice, that is. . . It certainly seems like I did. But perhaps that choice was inevitable from the day that I came into the world and there's really no mystery to it. Again, it's an extraordinarily confusing and complex issue.

I remember reading about the idea that if you knew of every single determinant at work in the universe, and you had a computer that could sufficiently process this information and determine how these determinants will interact with each other, then you would be able to absolutely predict the entire future of the universe and everything in it. Is that true? I can neither confirm nor deny. . .

. . . unlike Ludo who has inexplicably somehow figured the universe out definitively despite having a pea sized brain and tiny penis).

LOL

Like you, I seek the truth and actually get quite a weird feeling when I don't. I am happier this way and better off for it. Even if it turns out to be in vain, the unexamined life is not worth living

I actually wish I was a moron when it comes to this kind of shit. I find it distressing. I find it necessary and unavoidable--I am certainly not content when I try to just be a normal person--but I also envy simpler people with simpler concerns.

Watch this trailer. I agree with the guy who essentially says that it might be possible to be happy if you're a fucking idiot, but other than that, it's pretty damn hard.

http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/inde ... existence/

[Luke]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

.......

[SPX]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

Belief in some unseen unheard entity as the all creator that somehow finds time between creation and keeping the universe in order to intervene on a single persons behalf now and then.

All I can say is, "Who knows?"

I have plenty of arguments against God, but I also have plenty of arguments for him/her/it. The very fact that the universe exists, and we have no explanation for it existing, is enough to tell me that the idea of God is alive and well. If in fact matter can neither be created nor destroyed, then how did the original matter get here? If there was a big bang, how did what banged happen to be there to bang in the first place?

On top of that, you have literally thousands and thousands of reports of experiences in which people have encountered something otherworldly. These reports come in a vast variety of forms, but they are there nonetheless, and the old explanations of hallucinations, lies, and an overactive imagination, while undoubtedly true in many of the cases, can't explain them all.

[SPX]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

.......

You crack me up, Luke.

You literally have me sitting here laughing at nothing more than a string of dots.

[Svino]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

These reports come in a vast variety of forms, but they are there nonetheless, and the old explanations of hallucinations, lies, and an overactive imagination, while undoubtedly true in many of the cases, can explain them all.

Finally, something we can agree on.

[SPX]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

Finally, something we can agree on.

You asshole, that's a cheap shot.

[Luke]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

.......

You crack me up, Luke.

You literally have me sitting here laughing at nothing more than a string of dots.

Well I wanted to contribute to the thread topic somehow but I'm too lazy to read the previous 4 pages because I'm trying to watch boxing . I didnt want to be left out so I posted that

[SPX]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

Well I wanted to contribute to the thread topic somehow but I'm too lazy to read the previous 4 pages because I'm trying to watch boxing . I didnt want to be left out so I posted that

There's some very interesting reading there. You're missing out.

[Svino]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

Finally, something we can agree on.

You asshole, that's a cheap shot.

Rule of life man: always take the cheap shots.

[Luke]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

There's some very interesting reading there. You're missing out.

I'll read it later

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC 117

Well we're kind of slipping into the knowability of anything which is a real rabbit's hole.

I live in the rabbit hole. Seriously that's where every thought about cosmic or spritual things eventual ends. I would think as Kierkegaard fan /Existentialist that you would have given up your search for a univeral law.

I think that, for me, human life is borderlined un-endurable. There's so much darkness and fucked up shit that goes on that I feel like we have to find a way out, and it's probably not going to be a solution that we can come up with through purely conventional means. If that's true, then we'll need the intervention of a superbeing to help elevate us to the next level, and in order for that to happen the superbeing will have to exist and give a fuck.

That's some depressing shit. We don't share that view. I am generally a happy person, and extremely stoic. I just look at things from a very broad, almost cosmic perspective. So when a kid gets run over, I just think that millions of kids have died under worse circumstances. I am really horrible. I actually fear the day when someone close to me dies or gets sick, because I am terrified my emotional response is going to be so wrong.

I feel the same way about my own death. Why I am special so that it is such a big deal when I die to me? Literally every single thing that has lived will die. For some reason it makes it seem ok. Fine, I am going to die. i am ok with that.

At some point you can dwell on things too much and you just have to say fuck it and decide to live your life in a certain way. I spent my college years dwelling, and as I have gotten older, I have just decided to let it go some. The answers are not there. I am at peace about most of this stuff now. I have just made a decision and stuck to it.

Give me a heads up if you are going to kill yourself.

Yeah, this has been the cause of lots of arguments for me. Most people believe firmly in free will. I believe it's a surface illusion that seems obvious at first, but when you look more deeply at the situation, you're forced to reverse your conclusion.

It's really not that cut and dry, though. Because at the same time we're obviously not robots. I mean, I make the choice to raise my hand . . . and I do. Or did I? Make the choice, that is. . . It certainly seems like I did. But perhaps that choice was inevitable from the day that I came into the world and there's really no mystery to it. Again, it's an extraordinarily confusing and complex issue.

You have been reading too much Kierkegaard. I don't really buy the existentialist thoughts on free will and relativism. We obviously make choices. The issue is the perspective of the viewer. If God is omnipresent, time does not exist, then on some level out choices have already been made. It has already played out. In which case, why were you created? The argument about free will only exists if you consider God or some other supernatural being. Without that, I don't see the issue.

I

I actually wish I was a moron when it comes to this kind of shit. I find it distressing. I find it necessary and unavoidable--I am certainly not content when I try to just be a normal person--but I also envy simpler people with simpler concerns.

Watch this trailer. I agree with the guy who essentially says that it might be possible to be happy if you're a fucking idiot, but other than that, it's pretty damn hard.

http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/inde ... existence/

this is one area where I think you can actually choose your destiny. I used to be a brooding type myself. Now I am what you would probably call a happy moron. I am ok either way. If I have no purpose, fine, at least we are all in it together. If I have one, great! I would like to know what it is.

For me, its about the journey and the relationships I build along the way.The struggle is futile. All you can do is seek... but like a vacation, I like the trip there the best.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

Well now doesn't this seem like a case of deja vu? Patience has nothing to do with things. Belief in some unseen unheard entity as the all creator that somehow finds time between creation and keeping the universe in order to intervene on a single persons behalf now and then. That analogy about a kid with an ant farm and all.

I suggested something to the contrary of popular belief, perhaps something that does indeed offend and mean to do so. It is meant with a pair of "go fuck yourself" and "GTFO nobody cares about what you think"'s. So sorry to have interrupted the off topic thread with something loosely connected to the current discussion so as to possibly break up a subject that may indeed make some uncomfortable which clearly was the case, and no it wasn't Me. This suggestion is met with hitler like response as though I told ya'll Jews weren't bad or something.

Could ya'll be any less over yourselves here? Do some work on wanting for nothing and want for no more elitist words while your at it. Here we go with the Deja Vu thing again, isn't that wierd?

I literally have no idea what you are saying.

[Luke]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

Without reading the last 4 pages (because I am lazy) I believe there is something out there . If there wasnt how did we all get here?

I try not to worry about things like this but find myself doing it sometimes when I cant sleep. Even if there is a god we still have free will .We have the choice to do right or wrong but have to pay for our decisions someday.

I think I'll worry more about it when I get older.


SPX you're looking for a meaning in life .We all wonder what the point is sometimes.All I can say is find the right women and have a kid. Things dont make someone happy ,memories do.

thats all I got right now without reading all this I will sometime when I get bored but not tonight