Ultimate Fighter 12 Finale

[MMA_scientist]

Re: Ultimate Fighter 12 Finale

25%

Grove has good takedown defense sometimes. But then he gets taken down by the same guy he just stuffed. Reljic, Munoz, and Almeida all took him down. He also stuffed those guys some.

I think it will look like the Almeida fight, but more lopsided. Maia is better than Almeida in every way, including being bigger. Almeida has some horrible striking (Hughes dropped Almeida) and Grove never could get anything going... So I don't think he will be hurting Maia. Reljic passed his guard. I think Grove is going to be on the defense the entire time.

Maia is going to walk through him IMO.

[edman5555]

Re: Ultimate Fighter 12 Finale

Yeah I was really thinking Maia would sub him but then I hear King MO on MMA Live saying he thinks Grove will win a Decision. My instinct is Maia. He took down Miranda and got his back many times. I see him subbing Grove honestly, I don't do BJJ though. What do you think? It seems like he should be able to grab one of those long ass limbs and crank it.

On another note. Johnny Hendricks has a good looking line.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: Ultimate Fighter 12 Finale

King Mo also said that James Toney was a good wrestler and subbed him. At this point, I really think Maia is competitive standing with Grove. Miranda was just balling up and trying not to get subbed the whole time, it really hard to sub a guy that does that, and Miranda is a damn fine grappler in his own right, aside from Maia and Palhares, he is probably the best grappler in that division.

Maia goes for the choke a lot more than he goes for limbs and long limbs are sometimes harder to submit as well, because they are usually more flexible and the leverage point is off where you are used to it being. But he went for several armbars on Miranda. I think it is about 50/50 whether he subs him or wins by decision. I put Maia at about -300 and Grove at about +300. So it is a no bet for me. But Grove by decision is interesting @ nearly +500, because I seriously doubt Grove can stop him.

Aside from all of the technical aspects, Maia is a step up in competition for Grove. He has never fought a top 10 guy, and he has not been looking particularly good lately. He was even talking about retirement not too long ago. SD scored the Grove/Reljic fight for Reljic, FWIW. http://www.sherdog.com/news/r/UFC-116-R ... Play-25286 He is 12-7 overall (but could easily be 11-8). He is 4-4 in his last 8, and could be 3-5. He just is not that good. he gets beat by Munoz, takes a split from Reljic, and loses to Maia-lite, I don't see why he should beat Maia. But he does show flashes...

[edman5555]

Re: Ultimate Fighter 12 Finale

Yeah he has some power in his hands and reasonable takedown defense.

[edman5555]

Re: Ultimate Fighter 12 Finale

The only good lines on Damien are props. This one is hard. I don't see him knocking out Grove. The sub is a def pos though.

[edman5555]

Re: Ultimate Fighter 12 Finale

I am thinking Bonnar might be good bet but I am not sure how good Pokrajac is at wrestling. I know he is a greco roman wrestler, but how good. This is important because Bonnar's main weakness is his wrestling.

[poopoo333]

Re: Ultimate Fighter 12 Finale

Just watched Grove/Munoz...Munoz was unable to take Grove down once. Grove ended up on his back in round 2 because he caught Munoz with a knee on a TD attempt, worked for an armbar and Munoz escaped so Grove ended up on his back before getting pounded out... just pointing that out because I think I read Scientist saying Munoz was able to take Grove down.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: Ultimate Fighter 12 Finale

You might want to watch round 1 again. Munoz takes him down with a double leg on the first try. Grove got back up after a couple of shots, but still.

[poopoo333]

Re: Ultimate Fighter 12 Finale

You might want to watch round 1 again. Munoz takes him down with a double leg on the first try. Grove got back up after a couple of shots, but still.

God damnit you're right. It was quick but Munoz hanging onto Grove's leg for 90% must have taken that out of my mind.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: Ultimate Fighter 12 Finale

Yeah, Munoz was getting his ass kicked for sure. And after the first TD, which only lasted a second, he resorts to his usual technique of clinging to a leg while he gets punched repeatedly.

[Luke]

Re: Ultimate Fighter 12 Finale

I am thinking Bonnar might be good bet but I am not sure how good Pokrajac is at wrestling. I know he is a greco roman wrestler, but how good. This is important because Bonnar's main weakness is his wrestling.

That would be nice to know considering Bonnar got outwrestled by a 100 year old Coleman

[Ludo]

Re: Ultimate Fighter 12 Finale

Yeah but if it's Greco the shot isn't much of a concern and the shot is the real weakness here. Bonnar does just fine in the clinch.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: Ultimate Fighter 12 Finale

MOst of the international wrestlers dont have the top control like Americans do. International wrestling styles (freestyle and greco) barely have any mat wrestling in them. I think Bonnar will be able to get to his feet if he is taken down. Plus Bonnar actually has a really good ground game, which he should use more often.

[Ludo]

Re: Ultimate Fighter 12 Finale

MOst of the international wrestlers dont have the top control like Americans do. International wrestling styles (freestyle and greco) barely have any mat wrestling in them. I think Bonnar will be able to get to his feet if he is taken down. Plus Bonnar actually has a really good ground game, which he should use more often.

Except for Kamal Shalorus.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: Ultimate Fighter 12 Finale

Except for Kamal Shalorus.

I dont remeber Shalorus ever being on top for any extended period of time. The only fight I can think of that he went to the mat is his fight with Jansen, and he couldn't hold Jansen down at all. Shalorus actually helps prove my theory. He is really good at getting takedowns, not so much at grappling on the mat. It is just not a part of those sports. There is no "riding" in international wrestling. There are no escapes or reversals to speak of... they just get takedowns and then try to lift or roll the guy while the other guy lays on his belly and tries not to get lifted or rolled.