UFC 128 Newark, NJ March 19 Rua vs Jones

[Mr. IWS]

I used to always give the athletes the benifit of the doubt in anysport, I figured most were clean. Ever since that Balco shit dropped, I suspect everyone is doing it now. Those dudes were beating the olympic drug testing, so those bullshit commission tests are probably so easy to beat, some college kid probably already has shit out there for these athletes.

There is too much money at stake in all sports, not just MMA. And these dudes will always look for an edge. It sucks, but using Maia as an example, If he is on something, its probably because he knows everyone else is doing it, and he will fall behind if he doesn't.

[edman5555]

Right. X just said he gained 15 pounds, not 15 pounds of muscle. But no one is pointing the finger at a guys who just got fatter...

I always chuckle (on the inside) when I hear people worrying about bulking up. It is quite difficult to add muscle mass. My wife thinks if she lifts a 10 pound dumbell she is going to look like Hulk Hogan.

What would you guys say are the most effective muscles to build for the various arts? BJJ, Wrestling, boxing, kickboxing..

[MMA_scientist]

I take back what I said about Maia. i thought i remembered him looking a lot bigger.

Old Maia:


New Maia (last fight):




That is a doable change in physique. Kingsbury, Alves, Overeem- not so much. Doesn't mean he (Maia) is clean, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt for the time being.

FTR, it is absolutely rampant in sport bjj. They don't test for it, and I am sure 95% of the top guys are using something.

[SPX]

Right. X just said he gained 15 pounds, not 15 pounds of muscle.

Right. I want to point out a few things, actually:

1. When people say "lean mass" they almost always think that means muscle, but lean mass really just means anything that's not fat: muscle, water, bone, etc. One thing about creatine is that it volumizes the muscles and helps them retain water, which gives them a larger, fuller look. So building actual muscle tissue is only one component of getting bigger and/or more muscular.

2. Most bodybuilders usually shoot for a 2:1 or even 1:1 ratio between muscle and fat when adding size. In fact, you do want to gain SOME fat. Can you imagine gaining 50 pounds of pure muscle while your fat deposits stayed the same? It would push your bodyfat percentage into unhealthy, perhaps even dangerous, levels (provided you were already lean to begin with).

3. A lot of people also fall into the "illusion of big" category. That's where they actually lose weight, but the weight they lose is mostly fat, so they actually appear bigger because there muscles are much more defined.

Take this guy. Would you believe that he is 15 to 20 lbs LIGHTER in the after pictures?

[MMA_scientist]

What would you guys say are the most effective muscles to build for the various arts? BJJ, Wrestling, boxing, kickboxing..

Honestly, you really don't have to be very strong to be a good wrestler or bjj grappler. Muscle endurance is way more important. But if you are going for power, legs are constantly over looked in the grappling arts, IMO. No one works the glutes, hamstrings... but they help a lot in grappling, especially takedowns. Most grapplers have more than enough upper body strength, because you build it grappling. But the legs are neglected.

[SPX]

This would still be difficult WITH steroids. When people use steroids and say they gained 20 lbs, that is A LOT of water retention.

I think that a lot of common wisdom on gaining lean mass is incorrect. We have a lot of "bro science" myths that go around without anyone really knowing WHY they're repeating these things.

There are plenty of stories of guys who have put on a lot of weight (and not fat weight) in short periods of time. Perhaps some of them are lying. Certainly some are juicing. But I don't believe all are.

Take this guy for instance. He claims to have gained 34 pounds of muscle in 4 weeks. Maybe he's lying, but he's known through his website (and his book 4 Hour Workweek) for doing these "lifestyle experiments" where he tries random shit to see what kind of results he can get:

http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2007/04/29/from-geek-to-freak-how-i-gained-34-lbs-of-muscle-in-4-weeks/

[edman5555]

Yeah I would think Flexibility would be as important as strength. I guess it depends though. Jacare is strong as hell but Roger Gracie is a skinny looking dude.

[SPX]

My wife thinks if she lifts a 10 pound dumbell she is going to look like Hulk Hogan.

LOL

I get that with women a lot. I suggest that they weight train to sculpt their body and they always come back with "but I don't want to get big and bulky." They don't understand that they don't have the testosterone to do so.

[MMA_scientist]

Right. I want to point out a few things, actually:

I agree with most of what you are saying. With regard to the illusion of size photo, issue with these guys is that they are not just leaning out and looking ripped and bigger. They are still weighing in at the same weight (or in Alves or Overeem's case, more) depsite being dehydrated and shredded. Kinsbury was 205 on TUF, and he is still 205. If he came in all ripped and weight 185, I would just think he dropped fat and exposed his muscles more.

But I agree that there is some definite jumping to conclusions going on. And all the guys I think are dirty probably are not... but I like to speculate anyway.

[MMA_scientist]

Yeah I would think Flexibility would be as important as strength. I guess it depends though. Jacare is strong as hell but Roger Gracie is a skinny looking dude.

Yeah, it really depends on your style (or really your style depends on your build). You see wrestlers that are long and lean like Cael Sanderson, then other guys that are short and powerful like Brent Metcalf. Same thing in bjj, Marcelo Garcia is a stocky midget, but Roger is 6'6 and both are at the top of the world.

[SPX]

I agree with most of what you are saying. With regard to the illusion of size photo, issue with these guys is that they are not just leaning out and looking ripped and bigger. They are still weighing in at the same weight (or in Alves or Overeem's case, more) depsite being dehydrated and shredded. Kinsbury was 205 on TUF, and he is still 205. If he came in all ripped and weight 185, I would just think he dropped fat and exposed his muscles more.

But I agree that there is some definite jumping to conclusions going on. And all the guys I think are dirty probably are not... but I like to speculate anyway.

Well I guess that's true about weight cutting. It is an interesting phenomenon, though.

I do think that the body is capable of more lean development than most people believe.

[zY|]

Can't niggas just gain weight anymore without being accused of using steroids?

I gained 15 pounds in the last two months. Eat like a motherfucker, train hard, and properly supplement your diet with basic legal shit and you can put muscle on.

Haterz gonna hate.

Overeem gained 30 pounds of muscle in like 3 years. GARR steroids!!11

[edman5555]

LOL

I get that with women a lot. I suggest that they weight train to sculpt their body and they always come back with "but I don't want to get big and bulky." They don't understand that they don't have the testosterone to do so.

Is testosterone a key component for building muscle mass?

[zY|]

Is testosterone a key component for building muscle mass?

Absolutely it is. The whole point of anabolic steroids is to mimic the effects of testosterone.

[MMA_scientist]

Is testosterone a key component for building muscle mass?

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