UFC on Versus 4

**poopoo333** · 06-28-2011, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by Luke

read again..........You act like its just fine for someone with low testerone to get roids because low testerone puts them at an disadvantage .......well why shouldnt someone with bad cardio or small muscles be able to get roids also ? Bad cardio or smaller muscles put fighters at a disadvanage and roids would help them. Why is it ok to help one person at an disadvantage but not another?

So next time your idiotic ass calls someone dumb maybe you should open your chinese eyes a little further and read what they wrote

Still not a comparison. And I said that was a dumb comment, I didn't call you dumb. And my eyes are barely slanty. And a person can fix their "bad cardio and small muscles", people cannot just tell their bodies to produce normal testosterone levels.

Also,

**MMA_scientist** · 06-28-2011, 01:55 PM

Poopoo, when did you start taking the juice?

**poopoo333** · 06-28-2011, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by MMA_scientist

Poopoo, when did you start taking the juice?

I just know about that stuff because I've read up a lot on it.

**MMA_scientist** · 06-28-2011, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by poopoo333

Still not a comparison. And I said that was a dumb comment, I didn't call you dumb. And my eyes are barely slanty. And a person can fix their "bad cardio and small muscles", people cannot just tell their bodies to produce normal testosterone levels.

I am not taking sides in this debate, I admit I know nothing about TRT... except that it is for pussies.

But I think Luke's comparison is sound. Some people have a genetic advantage to have better cardio or bigger muscles. Even though I may be able to improve upon on my small muscles and weak cardio through effort, I can never fix it to level of some guys that are just genetically advantaged in those areas. So Luke is saying that having low testosterone is the same as having a genetic weakness lung capacity or muscle building capacity. You just play the hand you were dealt, you don't play chemist with it and then whine about it when it throws everything off because you could not tinker it to the exact level needed.

**poopoo333** · 06-28-2011, 02:02 PM

Yeah I see where you are coming from. Thanks for not throwing a temper tantrum Scientist, it was easier for me to comprehend that way.

**sbjj** · 06-28-2011, 02:04 PM

I think these guys are trying to find away to game the system with this low test. bull crap.

**Luke** · 06-28-2011, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by poopoo333

Still not a comparison. And I said that was a dumb comment, I didn't call you dumb. And my eyes are barely slanty. And a person can fix their "bad cardio and small muscles", people cannot just tell their bodies to produce normal testosterone levels.

You win ........I don't honestly care

Maybe had you said "what do you mean?" instead of "dumb comment" I would have come off a little less harsh

**SPX** · 06-28-2011, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by MMA_scientist

I am not taking sides in this debate, I admit I know nothing about TRT... except that it is for pussies.

But I think Luke's comparison is sound. Some people have a genetic advantage to have better cardio or bigger muscles. Even though I may be able to improve upon on my small muscles and weak cardio through effort, I can never fix it to level of some guys that are just genetically advantaged in those areas. So Luke is saying that having low testosterone is the same as having a genetic weakness lung capacity or muscle building capacity. You just play the hand you were dealt, you don't play chemist with it and then whine about it when it throws everything off because you could not tinker it to the exact level needed.

Yeah, but if you want to take that argument to its logical conclusion, then you could say that a fighter shouldn't take antibiotics on fight night if they're sick. Because at that moment their body's natural state is to be sick. So altering that is cheating.

Also, where do you draw the line? A fighter can't supplement with test, so maybe they shouldn't try to increase their size by eating more, taking creatine, or increasing their protein intake? Maybe they just shouldn't be able to lift weights or run?

Everything fighters do is to increase the way they are able to perform, whether it's a form of exercise, or it's a substance like creatine or protein, or it's sleeping in a hyperbaric chamber.

It seems that a lot of people, like yourself, get hung up when it comes to a substance that is synthetic. If it comes from the earth, it's not cheating to use it. If it was created in a lab--even if it's simply a synthetic version of something your body already produces--then it's cheating.

Why is that?

**MMA_scientist** · 06-28-2011, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by poopoo333

Yeah I see where you are coming from. Thanks for not throwing a temper tantrum Scientist, it was easier for me to comprehend that way.

Well like I said, I don't know anything about it... I just don't believe that all these fighters have naturally low testosterone levels and require TRT. At one point I think all of the original Team Quest guys (Hendo, Couture, Lindland) were on TRT. That would have to be one hell of a hypogonadal coincidence.

I was just saying, from a logic standpoint, it makes some sense...

Anyway, When Sonnen and Marquart fought, I wonder how much testosterone was in the cage.

I told you guys about the guy at my gym that started TRT, and then suddenly was awesome. Well, he had all sorts of problems like 2 months later and he would just crash and feel like he was having a hear attack. And then he quit. He had 10 years in, went on TRT, got in magic shape, then it all came crashing down.

**poopoo333** · 06-28-2011, 02:19 PM

BOL

@nathanmarquardt you are a cheater, not once but frequently. Stop cheating, come to bellator and I will crush you. @bjornrebney

-Ben Askren

**Ludo** · 06-28-2011, 02:21 PM

I have heard(and like Scientist I don't know much about this either way so bare with Me) that having low Testosterone levels can drastically decrease energy for even normal everyday things. If thats the case why wouldn't someone get on some kind of treatment to even be able to work as hard as a person with normal levels? I agree that the whole concept is subjective and that different doctors may read the test results differently and alot like medical marijuana it could become out of hand. But it's not like having bad cardio where you will fade because you don't work hard enough at it, you'll start to fade because you CAN'T work hard enough.

I remember reading something about wrestlers commonly suffering from low testosterone levels because of the constant weight fluctuation from cutting weight and putting it back on rapidly. If that is true then I could see plenty of fighters having a need for TRT but at the same time again, how many of them are milking it?

**poopoo333** · 06-28-2011, 02:22 PM

^^yeah, there are just regular average people out there on HRT because they are always tired, moody, and aren't able to fuck girls with a rock hard boner.

**MMA_scientist** · 06-28-2011, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by SPX

Yeah, but if you want to take that argument to its logical conclusion, then you could say that a fighter shouldn't take antibiotics on fight night if they're sick. Because at that moment their body's natural state is to be sick. So altering that is cheating.

Also, where do you draw the line? A fighter can't supplement with test, so maybe they shouldn't try to increase their size by eating more, taking creatine, or increasing their protein intake? Maybe they just shouldn't be able to lift weights or run?

Everything fighters do is to increase the way they are able to perform, whether it's a form of exercise, or it's a substance like creatine or protein, or it's sleeping in a hyperbaric chamber.

It seems that a lot of people, like yourself, get hung up when it comes to a substance that is synthetic. If it comes from the earth, it's not cheating to use it. If it was created in a lab--even if it's simply a synthetic version of something your body already produces--then it's cheating.

Why is that?

Like I said, I am not agreeing or disagreeing, just pointing out that the argument has some merit.

But to answer your question, I would draw a distinction between eating and working out and drug therapy because eating and exercising are things we have to do to live (or function at least). Those are the natural requirements of living as a human, and to do it more or better that is what sport is about. We do not have to inject synthetic testosterone into our bodies. Or there may be some people that do, but not Marquart or Sonnen. As for creatine vs. TRT, I think you make a valid point, I don't know much about it though (creatine). One is just more effective that the other.

That is just my opinion, my position, it is not a fact, but that is the distinction that I draw. I have never taken creatine either FWIW.

**MMA_scientist** · 06-28-2011, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by poopoo333

BOL

@nathanmarquardt you are a cheater, not once but frequently. Stop cheating, come to bellator and I will crush you. @bjornrebney

-Ben Askren

Hell yes. I love Askren.

**Mr. IWS** · 06-28-2011, 02:44 PM

The whole thing is BS to me. You shouldnt be allowed to put shit in your body to make you better. I dont care if a Dr. prescribes it or not.

UFC on Versus 4

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