Eddie Bravo Interview

[MMA_scientist]

Just sayin'. Japanese outfit.

yeah, true. No one hides the Japanese roots. My gi has a japanese flag on it right next to the brazilian one.

[Vandelay]

What about guerilla jiu jitsu? Does camirillo teach his own style of jiu jitsu or is it basically the same as the rest but with a different name?

[SPX]

American JJ is just Jake Shields' attempt to repackage and sell bjj as his own creation. Look, every practioner has his own style of bjj... it is highly individualized to the body and preferences of the grappler... but they are not all their own art. In short, Shields is hoping to make a buck.

I heard that there was a guy--someone well known in the grappling community--who was actually teaching "American jiu-jitsu," and Shields was his student. I haven't heard that Shields created it or that he claimed to.

Catch wrestling is different. That is its own art that took a separate and distinct path. The philosophy is different and the origins come out of a different branch of grappling. CSW is Paulson's spin on catch wrestling. My gym used to offer CSW, and it was basically our no-gi bjj course, it is not quite as standardized as bjj though, IME (you really don't know what you are getting). I have done CSW, it is fine, great. No problem with CSW or Paulson at all.

There was a school in Minnesota that I checked out and they had a CSW course. I had never heard of it before and still don't know a whole lot about it.

Regarding standardization, that's kind of surprising to me. Did Paulson not create a specific curriculum that tells you what you have to know in order to ascend the ranking ladder?

Yes, BJJ is basically highly specialized Judo newaza. And I somewhat agree with that argument against BJJ (it is basically a re-packaging and selling of Judo newaza). But I think the contributions to the ground game that Helio and Carlson made are sigificant enough that it can be called its own thing. But even more than that, BJJ players are just better on the ground these days than judoka (and not by a little, by a mile). So it comes down to conceding the historical point to get quality training. So far 10thplanet is actually totally and massively inferior to bjj (in both grappling and MMA)... so I am unwilling to join the revolution.

I blame the Olympics for the over-emphasis on the standing portion of judo play. I don't know how many people I've talked to who, when talking about judo, only think of it as a throwing art. I never thought of it that way at all, and I wasn't really taught that way either. This may be because we also had BJJ classes so my instructors were very familiar with the importance of groundwork. But I'd say that in a good class there should be probably a 70/30 split. 70 standing, 30 on the ground.

By the way, what do you know about Kosen Judo, and how different is it from BJJ? Do you know of any Kosen Judo guys who have entered BJJ tournaments?

[SPX]

yeah, true. No one hides the Japanese roots. My gi has a japanese flag on it right next to the brazilian one.

Well that's cool about repping the Japs on your uniform.

I was mostly having fun with his use of the phrase "Japanese outfit" over and over. You didn't actually read the interview, did you?

[edman5555]

American JJ is just Jake Shields' attempt to repackage and sell bjj as his own creation. Look, every practioner has his own style of bjj... it is highly individualized to the body and preferences of the grappler... but they are not all their own art. In short, Shields is hoping to make a buck.

Catch wrestling is different. That is its own art that took a separate and distinct path. The philosophy is different and the origins come out of a different branch of grappling. CSW is Paulson's spin on catch wrestling. My gym used to offer CSW, and it was basically our no-gi bjj course, it is not quite as standardized as bjj though, IME (you really don't know what you are getting). I have done CSW, it is fine, great. No problem with CSW or Paulson at all.

Yes, BJJ is basically highly specialized Judo newaza. And I somewhat agree with that argument against BJJ (it is basically a re-packaging and selling of Judo newaza). But I think the contributions to the ground game that Helio and Carlson made are sigificant enough that it can be called its own thing. But even more than that, BJJ players are just better on the ground these days than judoka (and not by a little, by a mile). So it comes down to conceding the historical point to get quality training. So far 10thplanet is actually totally and massively inferior to bjj (in both grappling and MMA)... so I am unwilling to join the revolution.

Alright well you know much more about BJJ than me so maybe I should just take your word for it. What caught my attention was the emphasis (Seemingly) that positions/moves are based around MMA in the sense that they practice the positions/moves as though they were being struck. For instance, they would consider strikes from bottom if they were on top in guard position. I do really like the No Gi idea, but I can see how that can be used as a marketing tool too. "we are training you for a real fight" as opposed to wearing a GI which would look like a funny suit to most people.

[edman5555]

You know whats going to happen with Eddie Bravo though right Scientist? He has like 30 schools now, he'll probably have like 500 someday. He will be just like mcdonalds.

[Luke]

Catch wrestling FTW

[MMA_scientist]

What about guerilla jiu jitsu? Does camirillo teach his own style of jiu jitsu or is it basically the same as the rest but with a different name?

Same thing. Camarillo is a gracie jj black belt and judo black belt. His training is done in the gi as well. The emphasis of Camarillo's system is transitions from the standing takedown into a submission. It really is a good concept, but nothing new really. He does focus on it specifically more than most judo players or bjj stylists, but it is a marketing gimmick imo. The reason no one gives Camarillo a hard time is that he has backed his shit up in competition and he has actually produced some quality fighters. Bravo has never placed in major tournament and has never had an mma fight. Yet he and his students talk like the 10th planet system is some revolution that is going to take over. I don't have a problem with guys attempting to brand their style, in an of itself. It is all the other shit that Bravo has done that turns me and 90% of other serious grapplers off. Aside from that, most serious blackbelts have said that the system is pretty much retarded. Some guys like it, fine, hell guys were playing "rubber guard" in the 80's. You can see Royce doing some foot grabbing in the early UFCs.

If you go over to underground there is a long thread where Caio Terra (a roosterweight) Cesar Gracie student challenges Bravo to a grappling match and they had a guy put up $10k. Any time he is challenged, he just says "I am into my music now..." Then Caio said he would fight ANY one of Eddie's black belts at ANY weight... and no one would step up. To be fair, Caio is a fuckin bad ass and everyone knows that he would humiliate Eddie, including Eddie. The guys at Cesar Gracie HATE 10th planet and basically make fun of them and taunt them constantly... even though it is like a senior picking a fight with junior high kid, they still do it. Cesar's has experienced success on every level, while 10thpl has experienced no success on any level.

[MMA_scientist]

I heard that there was a guy--someone well known in the grappling community--who was actually teaching "American jiu-jitsu," and Shields was his student. I haven't heard that Shields created it or that he claimed to.



There was a school in Minnesota that I checked out and they had a CSW course. I had never heard of it before and still don't know a whole lot about it.

Regarding standardization, that's kind of surprising to me. Did Paulson not create a specific curriculum that tells you what you have to know in order to ascend the ranking ladder?



I blame the Olympics for the over-emphasis on the standing portion of judo play. I don't know how many people I've talked to who, when talking about judo, only think of it as a throwing art. I never thought of it that way at all, and I wasn't really taught that way either. This may be because we also had BJJ classes so my instructors were very familiar with the importance of groundwork. But I'd say that in a good class there should be probably a 70/30 split. 70 standing, 30 on the ground.

By the way, what do you know about Kosen Judo, and how different is it from BJJ? Do you know of any Kosen Judo guys who have entered BJJ tournaments?

As far as I know, Shields has only trained with Cesar Gracie and he has coined the term American JJ to describe his top centric style.

I don't know much about Kosen Judo, other than it was more open and inclusive. I train Judo to this day... whaty I do is probably more like Kosen Judo, because we do all the forbidden techniques.

I have rolled with a ton of Judo blackbelts, I don't want to shit on Judo, because I train Judo myself... but I have yet to roll with a judo balck belt that gave me any trouble whatsoever on the ground. Most of them could probably get a hold down on me (25 second pin outside the guard) if they could get to the position, which they can't. I am only a purple belt, and even as a blue belt I pretty much dominated the judo guys on the ground. This is fo course sport grappling. Takedowns is of course much more competitive. There is one guy that was a nationally ranked judo player, that just flat decimated me with takedowns, even if I tried to stay low and wrestle him, he still found a way to uchi mata me every time I shot. His balance was just amazing. I respect the shit out of judo players now. Like a lot of wrestlers, I thought I could dominate all judo guys... it isn't true... there are just a lot more wrestlers than judo players in America so the talent pool is deeper. But judo guys are tough as nails.

[MMA_scientist]

Alright well you know much more about BJJ than me so maybe I should just take your word for it. What caught my attention was the emphasis (Seemingly) that positions/moves are based around MMA in the sense that they practice the positions/moves as though they were being struck. For instance, they would consider strikes from bottom if they were on top in guard position. I do really like the No Gi idea, but I can see how that can be used as a marketing tool too. "we are training you for a real fight" as opposed to wearing a GI which would look like a funny suit to most people.

Almost every bjj school does that. And especially the gracie academy, all they do is focus on a fighting scenario. As for what simulates reality better, gi or no gi, I think that is debatable... generally people are wearing more than shorts though. If you mean MMA, when 10thplanet produces a single solitary mma fighter worth mentioning, I might start paying attention. Until then...

[MMA_scientist]

You know whats going to happen with Eddie Bravo though right Scientist? He has like 30 schools now, he'll probably have like 500 someday. He will be just like mcdonalds.

Nah, they are already fading away. Most people know they are bit Mcdojo-ish. They have some good grapplers at these schools, but most serious students will drift away to a legit place eventually. It probably helps the sport in the long run by attracting people that wouldn't otherwise be attracted to grappling. There is nothing inherently bad about the system, it is just bjj, and they try to sell a gimmick with every position. Also they emphasize an attribute (flexibility) based system, which is sort of counter to the bjj philosophy of not needing any special tools.

[MMA_scientist]

Catch wrestling FTW

I know you are just trolling but...
I think catch is a good style. It is more aggressive than bjj (they train a lot of stupid ass moves that won't work though- CSW got rid of most of that stuff though). But there just isn't the quality of training partners and teachers you have with jj.

As much as you guys think I am, I am not a Gracie fan boy. I hate Rorion (AKA Whoreian) and a few of the other Gracies with the same gusto I hate EB. I am an equal opportunity hater.

[edman5555]

Whats wrong with flexibility? I would think that would be very important. BTW, how long does it take to get really flexible? Any stretching guides you know of?

[MMA_scientist]

Whats wrong with flexibility? I would think that would be very important. BTW, how long does it take to get really flexible? Any stretching guides you know of?

There is nothing wrong with flexibility. But one of the main tenants of Gracie JJ is that it is not reliant on physical attributes, it is what allows the smaller weaker man to beat the bigger stronger man. It is about leverage and technique. EB specifically says that if you can't do the moves, then go stretch. I don't see the difference between that and saying, if you can't finish the move, go lift weights and gain weight until you are strong enough to just muscle it. It is not about becoming physically gifted, if the position requires extraordinary capabilities, then there is something wrong with the move, not with you. Aside from that, your physical attributes will leave you as you age, no matter how hard you fight it. Technique stays with you.

As for stretching guides, EB has a long stretching guide in Mastering the Rubber Guard. But there is plenty of crap on youtube for free.

I don't know how long it would take to get flexible, I am not very flexible, never have been. I stretch a little here and there, but I know that I am genetically just not able to get gumby type flexibility so I don't really spend a lot of time on it.

[SPX]

As far as I know, Shields has only trained with Cesar Gracie and he has coined the term American JJ to describe his top centric style.

Not sure how true it is, but someone posted this on Sherdog regarding American jiu-jitsu:

According to Cesar Gracie (paraphrasing):

In Southern California, the BJJ technique is superb and the wrestling ability is lacking in fighters. In Northern California/Oregon, the wrestling technique is fantastic but the BJJ gets the short end of the stick -- more of a "submission wrestling" concentration.

BUT, in the middle (from San Francisco up to about Sacramento or so) there is a hybrid that Cesar and his camp refer to as "American Jiu-Jitsu".

It includes the elements of wrestling such as an oppressive top game, lighting fast hips, great strength/cardio/endurance, great takedowns and takedown defense and the inherent aggressiveness in wrestling.

The aforementioned wrestling components combine with these elements of Jiu-Jitsu: a technical guard game, high level BJJ submission/position knowledge (not just guillotines and arm triangles that wrestlers cling to), sweeps, and overall being able to compete off your back in MMA. This can or cannot include gi work, but in most cases it doesn't.

In essence, American Jiu-Jitsu is the bastard child of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu masters and high level wrestlers, keeping all of the advantages of both but nullifying the inherent weaknesses known to each type of grappler.

I don't know much about Kosen Judo, other than it was more open and inclusive. I train Judo to this day... whaty I do is probably more like Kosen Judo, because we do all the forbidden techniques.

I have rolled with a ton of Judo blackbelts, I don't want to shit on Judo, because I train Judo myself... but I have yet to roll with a judo balck belt that gave me any trouble whatsoever on the ground. Most of them could probably get a hold down on me (25 second pin outside the guard) if they could get to the position, which they can't. I am only a purple belt, and even as a blue belt I pretty much dominated the judo guys on the ground. This is fo course sport grappling. Takedowns is of course much more competitive. There is one guy that was a nationally ranked judo player, that just flat decimated me with takedowns, even if I tried to stay low and wrestle him, he still found a way to uchi mata me every time I shot. His balance was just amazing. I respect the shit out of judo players now. Like a lot of wrestlers, I thought I could dominate all judo guys... it isn't true... there are just a lot more wrestlers than judo players in America so the talent pool is deeper. But judo guys are tough as nails.

My understanding of Kosen Judo is that it is primarily focused on ground work. I think there are some vids on YouTube, but I remember them being really old and maybe in black and white.

Why do most wrestlers feel like they can dominate all judo guys? Is that only because judo is done in the gi?