UFC 164

[MMA_scientist]

When Rothwell came back after his layoff, I told everyone he was on roids. You could tell by his physique. So I think we have seen TRT Rothwell 3x now.

[Luke]

Anyone know if Reem had one for last fight?

Nah, he didn't

[Luke]

I'm still waiting for Vera to hold belts in two divisions.

Could you imagine him beating Cain or JDS? BOL!

I'm still waiting on him to win two fights in a row

[poopoo333]

This could make a huge difference. We saw what TRT did to fighters like henderson and belfort.

Such an overrated part of MMA.

There is a difference between TRT and Overeem's situation. A huge one.

[Luke]

Such an overrated part of MMA.

There is a difference between TRT and Overeem's situation. A huge one.

Explain.

[poopoo333]

Explain.

When I get to a keyboard...on phone now

[trotterz]

Such an overrated part of MMA.

There is a difference between TRT and Overeem's situation. A huge one.

Belfort isn't in Overeem's situation. Only TRT, same with hendo

[poopoo333]

Basically what I am saying is this:

With Overeem he was taking a lot of shit for a long period of time without being regulated by the commission. He was actually fighting these guys with his 14:1 ratio or whatever it was at any given time without being monitored by anybody. Then he comes over to the UFC and faces drug testing and actually gets a random test for the JDS fight and pops. If he is indeed off of everything right now that explains his "dangerously low testosterone" against Bigfoot. Once you take stuff, especially in high dosages and for the period of time Reem did..you don't recover to your natural levels. Your levels plummet lower than they should be naturally because you aren't receiving the exogenous testosterone.

Ok how is this different than guys with TRT exemptions?

Let's take a fighter with a known TRT exemption. Let's say Dan Henderson because I have read an article that had his actual testosterone level #s in it. With TRT, guys are taking a prescribed dosage of testosterone to keep their levels in the "normal" range. Read this:

Henderson has been granted a TUE or has at least been permitted to use TRT by athletic commissions in Nevada, Ohio, Georgia, Tennessee, Missouri, Illinois and California, according to a document he submitted to the Nevada Athletic Commission when applying for a TUE for the since-canceled UFC 151 event last September.
For his license application for UFC 151, Henderson submitted several test results of his testosterone levels he had done at Quest Diagnostics, all of which came in the normal range. The reference range is 250-1100, meaning anything less than 250 is low and greater than 1,100 is high.
Henderson submitted results taken in West Hills, Calif., while he was using TRT. He scored 338 on July 23 and 413 on Aug. 3, both in the normal range.
In 2010, he quit taking TRT for two months and scored 168.
Dr. Karen Herbst, an endocrinologist at the University of San Diego with a specialization in testosterone issues in men, reviewed Henderson's blood tests from 2007-2011. She wrote, "It is my conclusion that Dan Henderson is suffering from hypogonadism with chronically low testosterone levels and is currently receiving the appropriate course of treatment for his condition."

Ok so as you see Hendo is being monitored and his testosterone levels WITH TRT were around 338 when tested. 338 is actually quite damn low, but given his age that's not bad. If somebody like X, Luke, Scientist, etc went into the doctors to get our testosterone levels checked it wouldn't be out of this world if these guys were testing at 700. Henderson's levels for fights with a TRT exemption are on par with the average human being. With someone like Reem who was using testosterone (along with other steroids most likely), he was fighting guys with levels over 1500..I guarantee it.

I hope you guys see what I am getting at here: TRT exemptions let guys with naturally low testosterone (see Hendo's 168 score off of TRT) stay in a normal range. Guys like Overeem are just fighting at "superhuman" levels of testosterone.


And the argument of "guys use more testosterone than they should during training camp and lower it come fight time and that gives them a huge edge". If this were the case I highly doubt they would have a high edge. In fact, I guarantee it would fuck with them. When your hormone levels plummet from an extremely high level to low or even normal ranges, your body and mind go on a down-slope.

..speaking of the above little paragraph...are guys with TRT exemptions monitored throughout their training camps or just before the fight and after it?


As for the "TRT is cheating vs not cheating" argument...that's not what I am trying to get at here. I am just saying people like Hendo, Rothwell, etc don't have that huge advantage like Reem did in terms of hormone levels like the public thinks.

Oh and speaking of TRT and the whole "Belfort fighting out of Brazil thing on TRT" aspect...people need to stop saying Vitor Belfort is on TRT when he fights in Brazil. He isn't on testosterone replacement therapy. He is taking testosterone and not at prescribed dosages. He isn't sitting with testosterone levels of 500. If he truly is not being tested for his fights in Brazil, do you honestly think he is going to give himself what a doctor would prescribe a 35 year old man that could work as a damn home depot clerk? TRT Belfort is a myth. Unfair advantage Belfort is the truth.

[Svino]

Oh and speaking of TRT and the whole "Belfort fighting out of Brazil thing on TRT" aspect...people need to stop saying Vitor Belfort is on TRT when he fights in Brazil. He isn't on testosterone replacement therapy. He is taking testosterone and not at prescribed dosages. He isn't sitting with testosterone levels of 500. If he truly is not being tested for his fights in Brazil, do you honestly think he is going to give himself what a doctor would prescribe a 35 year old man that could work as a damn home depot clerk? TRT Belfort is a myth. Unfair advantage Belfort is the truth.

Not being tested? I thought the UFC did their own testing for overseas events. They have busted guys before, like Leben in England.

[trotterz]

Poopoo, Inderstand everything you say. It all looks good in theory. My concern ia that since thwy have the TRT exemption, some of them are the best that they have even been o all of their career. Additionnaly, I read sonewhere that theat you take TRT supllements could make the usagw of PEDs un noticeable. Therefore, with the TRT, they could take something else as well without being caught.

[trotterz]

Poopoo, Inderstand everything you say. It all looks good in theory. My concern ia that since thwy have the TRT exemption, some of them are the best that they have even been o all of their career. Additionnaly, I read sonewhere that theat you take TRT supllements could make the usagw of PEDs un noticeable. Therefore, with the TRT, they could take something else as well without being caught.

What I just said is kind of confusing so I will pull a Edman out of me and answer myself.
Actually, what I thnk is unfair about TRT is that someone as Henderson, can still fight like a 24 years old man, but with the experience, knowledge and years of training of a 45 years old man.

[poopoo333]

Not being tested? I thought the UFC did their own testing for overseas events. They have busted guys before, like Leben in England.

I admit that was an unfair thing for me to say and to throw that accusation out there. But if all the ramblings about "The UFC only has Vitor fight in Brazil so he can avoid a real commission" are true, than that is probably the case. For all we know, he is fighting in Brazil truly because he is a big draw there (according to Dana) and if he is avoiding the issue of not being able to get a TRT issue..maybe the UFC is actually keeping tabs on him for these fights.

I will go on and say this though: I think it's insane that people are acting like Vitor has transformed into some crazy fighter since he "got on TRT". He beat two guys and one of them happened to get caught with a flashy kick. I really think he is being extremely overrated right now based on being "TRT Vitor". Am I the only one that feels this way?

Poopoo, Inderstand everything you say. It all looks good in theory. My concern ia that since thwy have the TRT exemption, some of them are the best that they have even been o all of their career. Additionnaly, I read sonewhere that theat you take TRT supllements could make the usagw of PEDs un noticeable. Therefore, with the TRT, they could take something else as well without being caught.

Yeah, I think that a lot of these guys with TRT exemptions have used testosterone illegally in the past. Although there are men out there with naturally low testosterone levels at an older age that live a sedentary lifestyle, you almost have to thing that somebody in an athletic sport for such a long time have experimented with some sort of hormone altering drug(s) that have damaged their systems making it so they have to get this treatment to maintain normal levels of testosterone. I think if anything, a lot of these TRT guys that actually "need" the exemption due to really low levels of testosterone get a huge mental edge in the sense that they went from being sluggish and not being able to recover from training to being able to feel great and recover better.

As for the usage of testosterone masking other steroids in tests...that's not true. The other steroids fighters can take are made up of a different compound and do other things besides just elevating your testosterone levels. Speaking of these drugs, it is interesting to note that certain steroids (off the top of my head: boldenone and nandrolone) can stay in your system up to over 24 months after using them. Sherk, Baroni, Royce, Bigfoot, Bonnar, Marquardt and more are some fighters that have tested for this. It's interesting to me that when their results are reported they are only noted for taking these drugs and elevated levels of testosterone are not reported. I am willing to bet that these guys that are popped for these other steroids are also taking testosterone (even in low dosages). Why? Because with these other steroids, they can really fuck you up if you aren't also taking testosterone. The drug nandrolone will shut people down hard of their natural test levels and these guys more than likely will have a dick that can't go up at the sight of someone as hot as Ronda Rousey sitting on their kitchen table naked fingering herself.

What I just said is kind of confusing so I will pull a Edman out of me and answer myself.
Actually, what I thnk is unfair about TRT is that someone as Henderson, can still fight like a 24 years old man, but with the experience, knowledge and years of training of a 45 years old man.

I see your point. I'm not really getting into the fair vs unfair thing with TRT here because it's a totally different subject. However, I think that analogy is a little skewed because a fighter that is 45 years old regardless of their hormone levels is going to have a lot more wear and tear on their body than a 24 year old fighter.

[MMA_scientist]

Some guys are fat, some guys are short, some guys are stupid, some guys have low T. TUE is bullshit.

[poopoo333]

Some guys are fat, some guys are short, some guys are stupid, some guys have low T. TUE is bullshit.

Yeah I am not disagreeing there or even talking about whether it's right or wrong...just trying to give more of an explanation of the process. I see too many people on twitter and shit talking like these fighters are taking a drug actually called "TRT".

[trotterz]

Great explanation PP