UFC 115 discussion/odds

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

I also had a prop bet on Macdonald/Condit going the distance....the ref stepped in with 9 seconds to go.

that right there is a bad beat.

That blows. I would have been enraged.

[poopoo333]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

I also had a prop bet on Macdonald/Condit going the distance....the ref stepped in with 9 seconds to go.

that right there is a bad beat.

That blows. I would have been enraged.

I got it @+260 too!!

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

^^ At least you can take comfort in the fact that you correctly capped the fight.

My one and only bet was so wrong that I have no comfort at all. I do feel I correctly capped every other fight on the card though. Frustrating.

[Svino]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

. But I think Tyson would have done a lot better on the mat if he would have engaged in a little grappling instead of trying to "anti-grapple" Dunham and get away from it. Of course, I could be wrong, maybe Dunham is just that much better than Griffin on the mat. I just find it hard to believe though, because Efrain was doing better than Tyson on the mat.

Is Tyson really that good as a wrestler? I wouldn't have even thought he was necessarily better than Escudero.

I support Dunham though. I support training in the gi, and so it is just another confirmation of my grappling belief system. Gi training > no gi training.

In what sense? Do you think gi training prepares you better for no-gi competitions than no-gi training does?

[poopoo333]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

^^ At least you can take comfort in the fact that you correctly capped the fight.

My one and only bet was so wrong that I have no comfort at all. I do feel I correctly capped every other fight on the card though. Frustrating.

I was one click away from putting 5u down on Pyle, I was very confident he would get the submission, but then that thought of "maybe he is @+105 for a reason" came over me, and I x'd out of 5dimes. I actually predicted all but 3 of the fights right (I was wrong on Chuck, Barry, and Thiago).

[SPX]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

I support training in the gi, and so it is just another confirmation of my grappling belief system. Gi training > no gi training.

Why is that, exactly?

[Thewiseman]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

I also had a prop bet on Macdonald/Condit going the distance....the ref stepped in with 9 seconds to go.

that right there is a bad beat.

That blows. I would have been enraged.

I had it @ +350!!

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

Is Tyson really that good as a wrestler? I wouldn't have even thought he was necessarily better than Escudero..

No, I think Escudero is a better wrestler. But Tyson is better than Dunham, or I should say he has more wrestling experience and accolades. I was saying that Tyson is a better all around grappler than Dunham, haging been a purple belt with Cesar Gracie before moving to Extreme Couture.

In what sense? Do you think gi training prepares you better for no-gi competitions than no-gi training does?

Yes. It is an issue that is hotly debated among grappling nerds, but I think the proof is in the pudding. Name the best grapplers and they ALL train in the gi. Even the very best no gi grappler in the entire world (Braulio Estima) only trains one day per week without he gi. Roger said that he does the same, even leading up his MMA fight, he only trained once per week without the gi.

There are a few exceptions, Jake Shields doesn't train in a gi, and he has technical grappling. Hughes has never trained in a gi, but I wouldn't say Hughes is really that great of a grappler. All time great no gi grapplers and MMA grapplers are all gi trained. Who are the best grapplers in each weight class? Whoever they are, they train in the gi.

Why is that, exactly?

Well, like I said, it is debateable. The counter argument is that all the best grapplers are gi grapplers simply because it is more available and therefore, just the odds are that the best grapplers train in a gi. If those same guys would have dedicated to no gi, they would still be the best.

Personally, I believe in the gi. I come from a wrestling background and did a lot of no-gi before I started training in the gi. I think the gi makes you more technical. It makes everything tighter, especially your defense and posture.

It slows the game down considerably, and takes the athleticm away a little. You can't pull out of an armbar very easily in the gi. There is no sweat, and you just death grip the sleeve. You have to figure out how to escape the proper way. With posture, if your posture is bad, you get collar choked. You have to have very good posture to be good at gi bjj. But if you sit too far back, you get swept. It just makes the game more technical and makes everything tighter. This is my belief and pretty much the belief of anyone that has actually committed to gi training.

The counter argument goes that it makes it too easy to get subs, and then you wont be able to sub a slippery explosive guy. That makes sense, but it doesn't bear out. I find that the gi also makes it easier to escape certain subs. For example, you rarely see guillotines in gi bjj. I think they are ridiculously easy to defend. But in a gi, you can grap the sleeve to slow down the arm that is choking.

Alot of noise is made about transitioning and grips, etc. I find that to be just a load of crap by guys that don't want to wear a gi and get beat.

Anyway, call it what you want, but I believe in the gi. And there has never been a real awesome badass grappler that did not train in the gi. Alot of high leve guys say that you have to do it in the beginning more because that is when your habits are set. I have heard blackbelts that think you don't need the gi after blue belt (a purple belt is supposed to be an expert in bjj)

[SPX]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

Sounds logical, Scientist. Thanks for the detailed reply.

One thing you said was interesting: a purple belt is considered an "expert" in BJJ?

Coming from my background, that's an odd thought because I know that in TKD and Karate, a blackbelt is supposed to mean, essentially, that you have mastered the basics and that deeper instruction can now begin.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

Sounds logical, Scientist. Thanks for the detailed reply.

One thing you said was interesting: a purple belt is considered an "expert" in BJJ?

Coming from my background, that's an odd thought because I know that in TKD and Karate, a blackbelt is supposed to mean, essentially, that you have mastered the basics and that deeper instruction can now begin.

I can talk bjj for days.

Not to shit on other MA's, but it takes about 5-6 years over regular training to get a purple belt in bjj. Even in another grappling art like Judo, you would be a blackbelt in 5 years of regular training.

An "expert" might be the wrong word... you represent your academy at purple, you are supposed to have mastered the basics and be able to execute them on a resisting opponent. To a whitebelt, a purple belt will feel about the same as a blackbelt. And in fact, in bjj a lot of purples compete with balckbelts.

I have heard it compared to writing a lot:

White Belt-you are learning the alphabet and beginning to form actual words.
Blue Belt-you can put some basic words together and start to make small, primitive sentences.
Purple Belt-you are making full sentences and stringing them together. Holding actual conversations.
Brown Belt-you are a proficient writer. You can write an entire book and help others with their writing.
Black Belt-poetry.


The jump from blue to purple is probably the biggest jump. Some new guys can sort of hang with blue belts. In the history of time, there has never been a legit whitebelt beating a legit purple belt, it just doesn't happen.

The funny thing is talking to you on here, you would love bjj. Its the most addictive thing in the world, especially for smaller guys. Unlike karate or TKD, there is no chance at all that a big athletic new guy is going to give trouble to a small skilled guy. It has a lot of team comraderie and there is usually a big element of respect for the art. If you started training, in 6 months you would be defending bjj to the grave... but you have to find a legit school. There is such a difference between real schools and knockoffs. It is just huge.

[poopoo333]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

"The jump from blue to purple is probably the biggest jump. Some new guys can sort of hang with blue belts. In the history of time, there has never been a legit whitebelt beating a legit purple belt, it just doesn't happen."

This is very true. After almost a year of being a white belt I was holding my own/even subbing blue belts, but whenever I rolled with a purple...I died.

[poopoo333]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

Real quick. Dunham/Sherk...who takes it?

I think this fight will happen

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

Real quick. Dunham/Sherk...who takes it?

I think this fight will happen

I would pick Sherk to win a top control special.

[SPX]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

The funny thing is talking to you on here, you would love bjj. Its the most addictive thing in the world, especially for smaller guys. Unlike karate or TKD, there is no chance at all that a big athletic new guy is going to give trouble to a small skilled guy. It has a lot of team comraderie and there is usually a big element of respect for the art. If you started training, in 6 months you would be defending bjj to the grave... but you have to find a legit school. There is such a difference between real schools and knockoffs. It is just huge.

Like I said before, I used to do Judo and they also taught BJJ classes with a very credible instructor, so I've been exposed to it. I don't dislike BJJ and I'm down with ground fighting. I wouldn't mind training in it, but I feel that it's of somewhat limited use in terms of self-defense. Personally--and this is just me--I think Judo's better for SD because of the damage a throw can do on a bar room floor, and I think that at a good judo school you learn enough ground work to handle yourself there against an unskilled opponent if that's where the fight goes.

But yeah, I would like to study BJJ. There's just only so much time in the day for training MA though, and the truth is that my grappling is better than my striking, so I want to work on not being complete shit on the feet.

I had an interesting encounter the other day with a TKD instructor--the details of which I will not bore you with--but it looks like after 17 years away from formal training in the style, I am back in (hence the sig, that's my new "white belt") and I've found an instructor and a group who takes it pretty seriously. Supposedly my job now, as it's been posed to me, is to train my ass off with them and be ready for a tournament in September.

[SPX]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

I would pick Sherk to win a top control special.

After what I saw this weekend, I think Dunham would actually win if this fight were to happen.

With that said, I'm not convinced that Sherk hasn't retired.