UFC 115 discussion/odds

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

(not counting HW- though I still can't think of any).

Frank Mir

Or is he not world class?

Definately NOT world class... he has never won anything in bjj that I am aware of. He just got his blackbelt not too long ago... also Heavyweight

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

HOW BOUT OUR BOY GETTING TOOLED BY JOEY BELTRAN?

edit, forget he is a HW.

He didn't get tooled or controlled on the ground, he got lit up on his feet. Beltran is not a wrestler. Rolles is not even close to world class. He has never competed that I am aware of.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

How bout GSP controlling Serra in the second fight.

GSP is more bjj than wrestler. He is a blackbelt under Renzo. He uses his wrestling to get takedowns, then his posture is all bjj. He doesn't stay in guard. He rocks his bjj gi to the cage.

Here is one though: Matt Hughes controlled Serra. Even though Hughes would not have been able to do any of that without the years of submission training. How many wrestlers do you see hitting far side armbars...

There is one. Personally, I don't consider Serra world class, but he did get 2nd in ADCC even if it was 10 years ago. I also consider Hughes as one of the very few that learned the ground game some...

So there is one.

[zY|]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

Actually, I thought Serra did most of the controlling. I remember Matt Hughes not being able to move.

[Mr. IWS]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

Joey Beltran owns IWS.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

Oh nvm. He's going to be a politician about anyone you pick.

What are you talking about? How am I being a politician? Sakuraba never wrestled in his life... I think we all know that we were talking about "wrestlers." Not "catch wrestling" which is basically what bjj is, with a slightly different emphasis. If you want to include all grappling ever, sure, I can give some examples. Sambo is wrestling too... but I think we know Luke was talking about sport wrestling.

Renzo and Royce never did shit in bjj. No one with any knowledge has ever claimed that either of them are world class.

I don't see the problem. If you want to concede the point, I accept.

I will be happy to give you a laundry list of high level wrestlers getting controlled and submitted by bjj guys.

[SPX]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

He rocks his bjj gi to the cage.

I could be wrong, but I've always thought that coming out in his gi was supposed to be a tribute to his Kyokushin background.

[Luke]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

[quote=MMA_scientist]

Oh nvm. He's going to be a politician about anyone you pick.

What are you talking about? How am I being a politician? ... ISakuraba never wrestled in his life think we all know that we were talking about "wrestlers." Not "catch wrestling" which is basically what bjj is, with a slightly different emphasis. If you want to include all grappling ever, sure, I can give some examples. Sambo is wrestling too... but I think we know Luke was talking about sport wrestling.

Renzo and Royce never did shit in bjj. No one with any knowledge has ever claimed that either of them are world class.

I don't see the problem. If you want to concede the point, I accept.

I will be happy to give you a laundry list of high level wrestlers getting controlled and submitted by bjj guys.[/quote:2xkdv9ey]



LMAO he doesnt consider 6th and 7th degree black belts world class .

Royce didnt beat Sakuraba the first or second time. The first time he lost and the second time a roided,cheating Royce got a decision

Sakruaba started out as a wreslter and then later learned catch far from never wreslting in his life:

Sakuraba began his career as a wrestler at the age of 15. A high school stand-out, he finished as high as 2nd in the nation before joining the wrestling squad Chuo University, a team which had counted Olympic gold medalists Shozo Sasahara and Osamu Watanabe amongst its ranks. He won the East Japan Freshman championship in his first year and served as their team captain thereafter. In his senior year, he finished fourth place in the All-Japan tournament. Amongst his notable wins was a defeat of future Olympic bronze medalist Kat Ota

[SPX]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

That's some good detective work there, Luke. . .

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

He rocks his bjj gi to the cage.

I could be wrong, but I've always thought that coming out in his gi was supposed to be a tribute to his Kyokushin background.

Well at UFC 111 he was wearing an Atama. Atama is probably the most common brand of bjj gi and I rock one myself.

You can see it clearly at 1:34 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz_6N8Z66F8

[sbjj]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

Actually, Rolles has competed plenty.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

LMAO he doesnt consider 6th and 7th degree black belts world class .

the number of stripes on your balckebelt have nothing at all to do with your skill level. Once you acheive your blackbelt, you get a stripe every 2 years as long as you stay active either teaching or competing. So that just means he got his blackbelt 12 years ago. BFD. If Royce is a world class bjj stylist, then I am a world class wrestler, seeing as I wrestled for 24 years. Its just time. My instructor is a 3rd degree, and he is a white guy you have never heard of.

If you guys are going to call every guy named Gracie world class, I guess we can't do this. Royce is DEFINITELY DEFINITELY not world class. I didn't want to shit on his name, but there are guys out there that think Royce doesn't deserve his black belt. Marc Laimon said he rolls at the blue belt level. I doubt that, but he is not a world class practioner. Its not a matter of opinion, he just isn't.

Sakruaba started out as a wreslter and then later learned catch far from never wreslting in his life

Well, I didn't know that. Still, he doesn't get his submission skills from his wrestling background.

Fine. I will count the Royler win. Even though Royler is a FW and it was 11 years ago, I didn't put any parameters on it other than wrestler and world class bjj...

[edman5555]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

Rolles

Achievements[1]
Jiu-Jitsu

No-Gi Pan-American Champion (2008)
3-time Pan American Champion (1996, 2000, 2006)
Ranked #1 North America (2005)
1st Place, Grapplers Quest Copa Atlantica (2005)
Brazilian Teams Champion (2000)
3rd Place World Championships (1999)
2-time Brazilian National Champion (1996, 1999)
2nd Place, World Jiu-Jitsu Championships (1998)
3-time Rio de Janeiro State Champion (1989, 1991, 1993)
Judo

Gold Medal, Sunshine States Games (1998)
Gold Medal, Miami Dade Open (1998)


Also a silver medal at ADCC

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

Rolles

Achievements[1]
Jiu-Jitsu

No-Gi Pan-American Champion (2008)
3-time Pan American Champion (1996, 2000, 2006)
Ranked #1 North America (2005)
1st Place, Grapplers Quest Copa Atlantica (2005)
Brazilian Teams Champion (2000)
3rd Place World Championships (1999)
2-time Brazilian National Champion (1996, 1999)
2nd Place, World Jiu-Jitsu Championships (1998)
3-time Rio de Janeiro State Champion (1989, 1991, 1993)
Judo

Gold Medal, Sunshine States Games (1998)
Gold Medal, Miami Dade Open (1998)


Also a silver medal at ADCC

Didn't know all that. I put him in the same boat with Ralek.

Rolles counts (well he would if weren't a HW) also he has never lost to a wrestler or been controlled on the ground.

[SPX]

Re: UFC 115 discussion/odds

Once you acheive your blackbelt, you get a stripe every 2 years as long as you stay active either teaching or competing.

There's not any sort of testing process?