Strikeforce Los Angeles June 16th Card

[SPX]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

Me and Jeff Blatnick are the bet judges in MMA.

You ride with C-Peeps.

Hey, that's not very nice. . .

[zY|]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

Blatnick is the man for realz though.

[Svino]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

But from what little I can gleam, they didn't allow head strikes on the ground, and fights are judged by attempts to finish.

Yes, that's what I remember. The irony of Fedor's early career is that RINGS rules were really poorly suited to him in that way. That's how Sobral managed to take Fedor the distance. Sobral couldn't stay standing and Fedor couldn't punch to his head, so he just had to beat Renato in the stomach and ribs for the whole length of the fight.

If I had my preference as to how fights were scored, I would award no points for pure position. The point of getting a mount is supposed to be that it's a better platform for striking or submission attempts. If you can't or won't use it for that - no cookie. Takedowns should be worth a lot, though - especially violent ones. The only reason guys aren't dead from some of those is because they're on a mat. They should be worth at least as much as a heavy punch. Also, I would award a lot for "near finishes" including nearly completed submissions. And any fighter that ever gets "saved by the bell" should be all but totally exempt from a decision win.

On the other hand, I might just prefer no judging. Finish the fight or it's a draw. I'm old-school that way.

[Luke]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

I think me and MMAscientist are a perfect example of how one judge scores a fight one way and the other gives it to the other fighter

Me and Jeff Blatnick are the bet judges in MMA.

You ride with C-Peeps.

Best judges that dont get the score right

I scored the Fedor fight right ,you're the one that had the wrong score giving all rounds Arona


I bet you scored Machida-Sho Gun 5 rounds to 0 for Liddell

[MMA_scientist]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

zY, Blatnick really is the man. They should just him be the judge alone, because he is the only judge that knows how to score a fight.

Svino, I disagree. Mount is supposed to be a better offensive position, and thus its superiority in the positional hierarchy... but when there is little damage done by either fighter, positional dominance shows that fighter was in control. But aside from that, you definately cannot be hurt while in mount. There are no submissions or strikes that the bottom man can perform, so you have totally immobilized any chance of offense. It is difficult to score on damage, or even sub attempts though. You have no idea how much something hurts a guy or how close a submission is. Like Fedor's guillotine- it was not even a thought that he would submit from there. Its barely even possible, let alone against a top grappler like Arona. But if you are scoring attempts, you would have to give him credit... I like the bjj advantage system. An attempt is not as good as a point, but it counts if the guy has to defend it. It is still discretion though. I am a purist too though. I understand the need for time limits, but I am in favor of 1, 15 minute round, no standups. But if you want to talk about reality, Fedor would probably still be under that mount if there were no time limits or rounds.

Luke, we are never going to agree. I see your point and a lot of people agree with you. I just disagree and will continue to do so until my death.

[Luke]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

^^^^^^you know in my last post I'm just messing with you right?

[Luke]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

I'm in favor of 15 minute rounds until :someone is KO'd,submitted or throws in the towel

This shit of people gassing out in 1-2 rounds is a freaking disgrace and joke.They shouldnt even fight 3 round fights.

[SPX]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

I am a purist too though. I understand the need for time limits, but I am in favor of 1, 15 minute round, no standups.

That would be boring as fuck.

All sports are entertainment businesses as well, and the rules reflect that. It's not just MMA.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

^^^^^^you know in my last post I'm just messing with you right?

yeah, i picked up on that.

[Svino]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

I want to get back to Fedor for a bit. First off - let me admit that I consider myself a Fedor fan, so start the shouts of bias now. You've gotta admit that the guys is a unique fighter, not just in terms of his record, but in fan response to him. He's just so unbelievably polarizing - I don't know how to begin to say whether he's overrated or underrated on the whole. Personally, I'd put him #2 for current P4P champ after GSP, but everyone's got a different idea of what P4P means anyway. I do know that there are a lot of things people try to slam Fedor with that I think are completely unfair.

Frankly this:

He was getting pummelled, he threw a haymaker with his head down, and Arlovski just happened to be jumping into him at the time.

is one example. I can honestly say as a Fedor fan watching that fight that I was not concerned at any point[*]. Arlovski was landing a few more strikes (though not as many more as people seem to think), but he was not doing much damage. More importantly, he was clearly not fighting the kind of fight that would allow him to keep the whole match standing up, and I was confident of Fedor's advantage on the ground. Finally, as for the finish, let's take a look at it. I won't inline it, but it's one of the gifs on this page.:

http://www.mmaforum.com/affliction/5082 ... -pics.html

I agree that Arlovski went in because he thought he had an advantage to press. Key word is thought. His mistake was trying to press home an advantage that existed mainly in his head. Fedor wasn't nearly as affected by the body shots and push-kick as Arlovski might have believed; he was controlling his bounce off the ropes to come back into Arlovski and time his punch. The other interesting about that finish is Fedor's left hand, not the right hand that ended the match. 1) Fedor had it positioned to block the knee. Arlovski's attack had been read and was going nowhere, even if he hadn't fallen asleep in midair. 2) Fedor followed the KO right with a fast swinging left that makes me think AA was very lucky to fall the way he did. We'd have had Arlovski's funeral if both connected. MMA may be more like poker most of the time, but that moment was chess, and Fedor was like Garry Kasparov playing against one of those dumb kids who used to show up at chess club and say "No fair! You made two moves!" when you castle on them.

Also, to say an event is luck is to say it has no predictive power, but look at what happened in each of their next fights, and against a common opponent no less! AA found another way to let an opponent punch him hard in the chin, and Fedor found a hole in Roger's defence in the way he threw one of his punches, then waited for it, timed it, and ended the fight. Arlovski has a pattern of letting guys hit him - Fedor has a pattern of great fight instincts. The KO may not have been guaranteed, but it sure wasn't unlikely.

Yes, Fedor has been in some rough spots before, but I think you've got it backwards. People make a much bigger deal over Fedor's near losses than they do over anyone else's. It's only natural of course, with Fedor being Fedor. But he's the only fighter where you can get famous just by getting him in a little bit of trouble.

However, as far as your greater point goes, I absolutely agree that Fedor has been lucky. You don't need to watch any fights to know that. It is simply impossible to go 33-1 against good competition without luck. Just like it is impossible to go 16-0 in the NFL regular season without luck. (I don't think you can ever predict a team to better than 12-4 and even that is rare.) If that weren't the case, you would expect Fedor to be a 97% betting favorite against a "median Fedor opponent", which he certainly would not be. I'd say, like many dominant champs, he's maybe an 80% favorite against most challengers, and maybe 95% against a scrub pro-fighter?
[*] In contrast, I admit to going "oh shit" when Rogers threw those GnP bombs down on Fedor. Still, Fedor won that round convincingly. He landed the biggest shots, had the takedowns, and submission attempts. The Sherdog guy that gave it to Rogers was on crack.

[SPX]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

[Luke]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

In contrast, I admit to going "oh shit" when Rogers threw those GnP bombs down on Fedor. Still, Fedor won that round convincingly. He landed the biggest shots, had the takedowns, and submission attempts. The Sherdog guy that gave it to Rogers was on crack.

I also scored round 1 for Fedor

I would say Fedor has been lucky too but I think alot of the "luck" is instinct.I've said before everyone gets in trouble its what you do when in trouble(panic or stay calm and think) that determines whether you win or lose

[Luke]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

LOL I read it all but I've yet to read that novel you posted yesterday

[SPX]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

LOL I read it all but I've yet to read that novel you posted yesterday

Me either.

I probably actually READ half of it and scanned the rest.

It was just too much. What the fuck was he thinking writing an article that long?

[Luke]

Re: Strikeforce Los Angeles June Card

Cliffnotes :

Fedor never in trouble against AA

Fedor has been somewhat lucky to get 33-1

Fedor always has a great gameplan for the fighter he's fighting