UFC 117

[sbjj]

Re: UFC 117

Let me be more clear: It wasn't a good analogy FOR YOU. I agree that you are not like that.

But it was a clever analogy IN GENERAL, because we all know that those types of guys are out there.

Well he was refering to me in that analogy and saying thats the kind of person I am .Instead of defending me you said "i thought it was a good analogy"

I'm always the first person to admit to being wrong and the first to congratulate the other side and had I bet on Silva I would have hated winning the way he did .So I'm not even close to the person he was describing and took offense to it

It was sort of a joke actually. Sorry if you took offense. but the fact that some in here lost 100s of dollars(actually thousands)if they would have won. and some guys are typing..."Well, you lost" does kinda seem like that type of guy to be honest.

[Mr. IWS]

Re: UFC 117

I could tell by the text

LMAO. I think it went:

SILVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[SPX]

Re: UFC 117

Well he was refering to me in that analogy and saying thats the kind of person I am .Instead of defending me you said "i thought it was a good analogy"

My bad, brother. Didn't mean to come off that way. Let me fix it:

sbjj, you fucking punk ass piece of shit! Luke is NOTHING like what you described! You fucking pull that shit around here again and you're gonna get drilled in the ass harder than an 18-year-old white kid in San Quentin!

Got it? Good.

Fucking bitch.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC 117

He could make that argumant, but it would be wrong...He beat Filho, who is brazilian. so the argumant would not be factually based.

I think the fact that the sub happened in the last minute means everything. If Sonnen (R-Or) wanted to pull a Siva in the rematch, he could clearly win the first 3 rounds, and then just bear hug him the last two, throwing the occasional body shot to not get stood up. his problem the last round, is that he must have not have known he already set the record for strikes landed. he should have just been more careful the last round, something he might be able to adjust in the rematch.

True about Filho, but he also got subbed by Filho in pretty much the exact same way this fight happened (and Filho was in space in II).

You are getting into subjective territory again though... my point is that the argument could be made. You see it as though Sonnen got tired, whatever... someone else might see it differently (and I think at least somewhat validly). Sonnen may not be able to win the first 3 rounds without getting subbed again. I could make the argument that the sub will come quicker next time because he has figured out Sonnen's defense, just as well as you can argue that Sonnen will do XYZ in order to survive the full fight next time.

That's my point, these post fight analyses are subjective. It is the same skill that makes you a successful capper. There is no right or wrong like there is math based games like poker. There is only what happened and how YOU see it.

[Mr. IWS]

Re: UFC 117

To me, fuck the right side, fuck the wrong side. I am having a fucking brutal year betting MMA, i dont care if Ed Soares got tagged in and finished Sonnen. Gimme my bread nigga!

[Mr. IWS]

Re: UFC 117

Well he was refering to me in that analogy and saying thats the kind of person I am .Instead of defending me you said "i thought it was a good analogy"

My bad, brother. Didn't mean to come off that way. Let me fix it:

sbjj, you fucking punk ass piece of shit! Luke is NOTHING like what you described! You fucking pull that shit around here again and you're gonna get drilled in the ass harder than 18-year-old white kid in San Quentin!

Got it? Good.

Fucking bitch.

Me and sbjj vs You and Luke for the WWE Tag titles muthafuckas

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC 117

I think Sonnen (R-Or) was tired and probably also a little comfortable, so he got caught sleeping. So I disagree with this hypotethical man that the sub could've come at any time, or at least that it is as likely to come earlier as later.

Also, something else I think about is that if it were a 3-round non-chamionship fight then Sonnen (R-Or) would've won. All that would have to happen for that to be the case is for Vitor to dethrone Silva and then have Silva rematch Sonnen (R-Or) for a title shot. We now KNOW that Sonnen (R-Or) can beat Silva in a three round fight, because he already has.

you are probably right... but my point is that there is no true right or wrong. There is only your perception of what happened. In poker, there is a true correct and incorrect play.

[Luke]

Re: UFC 117

you are probably right... but my point is that there is no true right or wrong. There is only your perception of what happened. In poker, there is a true correct and incorrect play.

Poker deals alot more with luck though imo.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC 117

you are probably right... but my point is that there is no true right or wrong. There is only your perception of what happened. In poker, there is a true correct and incorrect play.

Poker deals alot more with luck though imo.

It does, because it is a game on incomplete information. You don't know the other guy's cards. You can still calculate pot odds based on the information you have though, and you should be able to decide if it worth a draw or not. There are a lot of variables though, that is for sure.

[sbjj]

Re: UFC 117

[quote=MMA_scientist]

you are probably right... but my point is that there is no true right or wrong. There is only your perception of what happened. In poker, there is a true correct and incorrect play.

Poker deals alot more with luck though imo.

It does, because it is a game on incomplete information. You don't know the other guy's cards. You can still calculate pot odds based on the information you have though, and you should be able to decide if it worth a draw or not. There are a lot of variables though, that is for sure.[/quote:qnfx1orc]

But, if you use your subjective argument. a guy could say every time he loses that the other fighter got lucky. I actually believe Hughes win over Ricardo was luckier than Silvas over Sonnens. i firmly believe that was pretty much a lucky shot that he hit Ricardo with, and that he looked like complete shit before that shot.

[Luke]

Re: UFC 117

My bad, brother. Didn't mean to come off that way. Let me fix it:

sbjj, you fucking punk ass piece of shit! Luke is NOTHING like what you described! You fucking pull that shit around here again and you're gonna get drilled in the ass harder than an 18-year-old white kid in San Quentin!

Got it? Good.

Fucking bitch.

thats what I was looking for lol

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC 117

But, if you use your subjective argument. a guy could say every time he loses that the other fighter got lucky. I actually believe Hughes win over Ricardo was luckier than Silvas over Sonnens. i firmly believe that was pretty much a lucky shot that he hit Ricardo with, and that he looked like complete shit before that shot.

That is true... you could say everything was luck. You would probably be a terrible capper. Then at the other end of the spectrum, there is a guy who thinks nothing was luck, or low percentage (ie the smart play is always the guy that won)...

Then in between you have a whole array of opinions. But the bottom line, is that what is a "correct" play depends entirely on how you "see" a fight. Some opinions are more popular than others... but just like setting a line, it is not an exact science and you never really know if you valued a fight correctly.

As far as Hughes goes, I think the shot was a little flukey, but Almeida should have known he was getting choked. I picked Hughes to win, it definitely did not play out how I thought, but I still think Hughes was the play. I don't think Silva got lucky at all.

[SPX]

Re: UFC 117

I don't think Silva got lucky at all.

I just don't think he had some grand plan to wait until the last minute to win. If Chael could go 23 minutes avoiding the subs then you know he had the skill to go two more. So if nothing else, the fact that Chael got too comfortable, thinking he had the thing won, and left the opening was a lucky break for Silva.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: UFC 117

I don't think Silva got lucky at all.

I just don't think he had some grand plan to wait until the last minute to win. If Chael could go 23 minutes avoiding the subs then you know he had the skill to go two more. So if nothing else, the fact that Chael got too comfortable, thinking he had the thing won, and left the opening was a lucky break for Silva.

I agree, he just made a mental mistake and took his foot off the gas. That said, you could just as easily argue that Chael got lucky to avoid the subs for the first 23 minutes... and that if Silva had the skill to sub him in the 5th, he has the skill to sub him in the 1st. Submissions are frustrating like that, they often come from the guy that is "losing"... and you always wonder, could he do that again? He just caught him...

[SPX]

Re: UFC 117

I agree, he just made a mental mistake and took his foot off the gas. That said, you could just as easily argue that Chael got lucky to avoid the subs for the first 23 minutes... and that if Silva had the skill to sub him in the 5th, he has the skill to sub him in the 1st. Submissions are frustrating like that, they often come from the guy that is "losing"... and you always wonder, could he do that again? He just caught him...

I see what you're saying. As I kind of alluded to earlier, though, I think I'd have an easier time with it if Silva had subbed him within the first three rounds. The conditions of a three round fight and a five round fight are, in sense, despite the fact that one is specifically for championship fights, somewhat arbitrary. I mean, WHY are championship fights 5 rounds? Just cuz, is the reason.

So it's weird, because we know Sonnen beat him for 3 rounds . . . the length of most MMA fights . . . so if this had been a 3 round fight, Sonnen would've won. And the thing is that 5 round victories aren't put in any special category. It's a win, either way. So it was just a twist of fate that Sonnen did not get a standard win.

Really, I wonder how many fights in the history of MMA would've had different endings in every fight was the same length, regardless of whether it's 3 rounds or 5.