UFC 118 Penn-Edgar 2 Toney-Couture

[Luke]

Re: UFC 118 Penn-Edgar 2 Toney-Couture

I hope James Toney stuffs Randy's takedowns, drops him with strikes, and wins by rear naked choke.

That would be the most hilarious.

I'd piss my pants laughing if that happened .No doubt he'd call out Lesnar right after

[Luke]

Re: UFC 118 Penn-Edgar 2 Toney-Couture

Can I do a Toney/Beltran parlay for the contest?

LOL the contest is over before this event happens

[Luke]

Re: UFC 118 Penn-Edgar 2 Toney-Couture

Damn I cant find any Toney by submission odds

[edman5555]

Re: UFC 118 Penn-Edgar 2 Toney-Couture

Damn I cant find any Toney by submission odds

Toney by submission probably pay out 100 times what you bet.

[SPX]

Re: UFC 118 Penn-Edgar 2 Toney-Couture

In all seriousness MMA fans are way worse than boxing fans. There are MMA people that think Silva-Sonnen (R-Or) was a fixed fight .Nuff said

So boxers never think a fight is fixed?

superior how? know you sound like the internet people you're complaining about

Superior for the same reason that everyone knows BJ Penn would beat the shit out of Mayweather 9 times out of 10 if they met each other on the street.

So you think Silva would be a good boxer now ?

Why wouldn't he? He's obviously phenomenally talented and he would've had 14 years to focus on nothing but boxing.

[Luke]

Re: UFC 118 Penn-Edgar 2 Toney-Couture

Superior for the same reason that everyone knows BJ Penn would beat the shit out of Mayweather 9 times out of 10 if they met each other on the street.

LOL you got to be kidding .Thats how you define the superior sport? Street fighting ? Just so you know street fights are suppose to be fought on ones feet .Come SPX you sound just like the people you're complaining about

Why wouldn't he? He's obviously phenomenally talented and he would've had 14 years to focus on nothing but boxing

I meant if he switched sports today do you think he'd be a good boxer ?


There's no such thing as a superior sport imo.Its like comparing basketball to football

[SPX]

Re: UFC 118 Penn-Edgar 2 Toney-Couture

LOL you got to be kidding .Thats how you define the superior sport? Street fighting ? Just so you know street fights are suppose to be fought on ones feet. Come SPX you sound just like the people you're complaining about

Not superior sport . . . superior as a combat form. I'm saying that combat obviously becomes more pure as you strip away the rules and limitations. MMA then will obviously produce better FIGHTERS, generally speaking. Okay, so BJ and Mayweather face each other at UFC 1 and BJ wins.

In terms of sports, I agree that it's not a valid argument. But then, really, boxing and MMA are no better than taekwondo or Shotokan or whatever else.

I meant if he switched sports today do you think he'd be a good boxer?

I'm sure he wouldn't be a champ, but I think he could hang with mid-level guys at least.

In any case, the argument boxing fans use this for is to say that boxers are better fighters because Silva got knocked out in a boxing match 14 years ago . . . his very first boxing match ever . . . before he even fought in an MMA match.

Really?

[edman5555]

Re: UFC 118 Penn-Edgar 2 Toney-Couture

John Salter - Dan Miller.

JS is NAIA wrestling nat champ.
JS is winner of 2007 NAGA Nationals (No-Gi, middleweight) Expert Division, as well as the 2007 Casca Grossa (No-Gi, 175lb and up) Professional Division

7-0 amateur record. 5-1 professional.

1 loss to Gerald Harris. JS was a last minute replacement for this fight. If you read the play by play the first two rounds were very close. Harris caught him in the third, one play by play I read stated that the stoppage may have been premature.. I have not watched it yet but this Salter guy seems like he might be ok.

I know Dan Miller fairly well. BB in BJJ and decent standup. He wrestled up into high school.

I think Salter has a good shot at winning the takedown game here. High school vs NAIA wrestling champion. But Dan miller is a BJJ black belt that has submitted a lot of people and has way more experience. He will be the best ground guy Salter has ever faced.

So my questions are as follows:

Where does NAIA stand compared to D1, D2, D3?

What can you guys tell me about NAGA? How good do you have to be to win those tournaments and where does that stand when compared to a BB from Jamie Cruz?


Do you guys think that Salter can stifle Dan Millers BJJ if he gets him down?
Because I think he might be able to and Salters most definetely going to be an underdog.

Bumping my own thread here to keep the non "yo mama" part of it going. I just rewatched Gray Maynard Nate diaz and I'm glad I did. I was wrong when I said before that Nate Diaz won it. Gray definetly deserved the decision. He is actually really quick on his feet with his punches.

I also noticed something about Kenny Florians record. He gets most of his wins by submission. From what I remember he typically beats them up and then gets them down for the sub. Gray was a top of line D1 wrestler, Kenny most likely isn't getting him down unless he really stuns him. I also don't think Gray will be afraid to take kenny down like he was with nate diaz, he doesnt have to worry about those crazy triangles. I'm not saying Kflo isnt dangerous off his back but I'm not certain he will end it there.

I'm starting to lean towards Gray. He has decent striking, power and he can dictate where the fight goes..he is also the Udog now.

Nate diaz/marcus davis. I'm actually thinking about taking Davis, maybe Davis by Decision for a small amount of money. I think he might be able to outbox Nate diaz for two rounds without getting taken down. I'd only do a small play on this though because Nate is good in my opinion.

So far:

I am on Nik Lentz already for 4u.

Thinking about Ozi, Gray Maynard, Marcus Davis, and Greg Salter.

No longer thinking about Mario Miranda. Damien is just too nasty on the ground to bet against.

[Luke]

Re: UFC 118 Penn-Edgar 2 Toney-Couture

Not superior sport . . . superior as a combat form.

.

correct

In terms of sports, I agree that it's not a valid argument. But then, really, boxing and MMA are no better than taekwondo or Shotokan or whatever else

.

This is the statement I agree with most . I dont consider MMA,boxing ,BJJ etc to be better than TKD, Karate or anything else .Each are different and in my mind need to be treated that way

In any case, the argument boxing fans use this for is to say that boxers are better fighters because Silva got knocked out in a boxing match 14 years ago . . . his very first boxing match ever . . . before he even fought in an MMA match.

Really?

People as a whole are stupid and you need to remember that

[Luke]

Re: UFC 118 Penn-Edgar 2 Toney-Couture

Bumping my own thread here to keep the non "yo mama" part of it going. I just rewatched Gray Maynard Nate diaz and I'm glad I did. I was wrong when I said before that Nate Diaz won it. Gray definetly deserved the decision. He is actually really quick on his feet with his punches.

I also noticed something about Kenny Florians record. He gets most of his wins by submission. From what I remember he typically beats them up and then gets them down for the sub. Gray was a top of line D1 wrestler, Kenny most likely isn't getting him down unless he really stuns him. I also don't think Gray will be afraid to take kenny down like he was with nate diaz, he doesnt have to worry about those crazy triangles. I'm not saying Kflo isnt dangerous off his back but I'm not certain he will end it there.

I'm starting to lean towards Gray. He has decent striking, power and he can dictate where the fight goes..he is also the Udog now.

Nate diaz/marcus davis. I'm actually thinking about taking Davis, maybe Davis by Decision for a small amount of money. I think he might be able to outbox Nate diaz for two rounds without getting taken down. I'd only do a small play on this though because Nate is good in my opinion.

So far:

I am on Nik Lentz already for 4u.

Thinking about Ozi, Gray Maynard, Marcus Davis, and Greg Salter.

No longer thinking about Mario Miranda. Damien is just too nasty on the ground to bet against.

Sorry we're off topic so much but this is 15 days away so I havent really got serious about it yet . We have a WEC event and SF before this so I'll have to look at them first

[SPX]

Re: UFC 118 Penn-Edgar 2 Toney-Couture

Bernard Hopkins Doesn't Believe in Toney. . .

There are many, many reasons for James Toney to feel uncomfortable in the Octagon on August 28, but there are two factors that aren’t getting a lot of play: gloves and shoes. One is shrinking, and one is disappearing.

Boxers wear shoes for traction: they plant their feet and throw, driving up from the ground to generate power. If you spend two decades wearing shoes and then begin throwing punches without them, I guarantee it’s going to feel alien. Toney had them, and now he doesn’t.

The boxer is also moving from the big foam clubs to four-ounce grappling mitts, and while that’s usually a sign of sadism -- if he can maul with bigger gloves, imagine what he can do without -- it’s also going to affect Toney’s defense. Boxers can protect themselves with the same tool they use as a weapon. If Toney instinctively puts his hands up expecting coverage, a hand is going to slice through.

These are not points Bernard Hopkins brought up during an interview with Hardcore Sports Radio (and uncovered by Cagewriter) this week, but the argument is still the same: Toney is out of his element.

"When you step out into a situation where, against a legend too in his own sport. I believe, and I'll go on the record, that the best MMA guy or UFC guy go up against the best boxer in the world in their arena, in their arena gets their ass kicked,” he said. “I don't care who it is, whether Floyd, Pacquiao, Bernard Hopkins, they get their ass kicked. That is not what we do."

Hopkins is 90% there. Two kinds of boxers would have modest success in MMA: the highly athletic and the highly aggressive. Mike Tyson had the fuel injection momentum of Melvin Manhoef without the kicks, and Manhoef has earned wins despite having no ground aptitude whatsoever. Sometimes a guy’s sheer steamrolling is enough.

The second contingent would resemble the early Mirko “Cro Cop” Filipovic: a hyper-athletic striker who can pick up defensive wrestling quickly. A few years ago, maybe the Klitchkos could’ve pulled it off.

I’m not willing, as Hopkins is, to totally dismiss any boxer’s chances in MMA. But Toney, with his plodding, gut-slop style, ain’t the guy.

[Svino]

Re: UFC 118 Penn-Edgar 2 Toney-Couture

In terms of sports, I agree that it's not a valid argument. But then, really, boxing and MMA are no better than taekwondo or Shotokan or whatever else

.

This is the statement I agree with most . I dont consider MMA,boxing ,BJJ etc to be better than TKD, Karate or anything else .Each are different and in my mind need to be treated that way

I guess it depends on what you mean by better. While I love MMA, a lot of what I like about it is how close it is to a "real" activity like fighting. As a pure sport, I think it has a lot of flaws, like the fact that organizations promote and schedule fighters based on their entertainment value as much as on their ability to win, and that the sport relies on subjective judging. (How many guys have you heard use a similar complaint to say that diving, gymnastics, or figure skating aren't "real" sports?)

And there's definitely a big difference between combat sports in terms of the talent they attract. Some sports just draw a lot more top-quality athletes and therefore provide a higher level of competition in that respect. I don't know how boxing and MMA would stack up here, but I'm sure one of the big reasons wrestlers do so well in MMA is that wrestling makes up such a huge pool of good athletes. A top wrestler is someone who has proven that they can climb to the top of a much bigger pyramid than (say) a kyokushin or sambo champ has.

[Luke]

Re: UFC 118 Penn-Edgar 2 Toney-Couture

Bernard Hopkins Doesn't Believe in Toney. . .

From what I remember Toney and Hopkins dont like each other.


Toney is not the right guy to make the jump to MMA. Toney is wayyy out of shape .He might come in 220-230+ for the fight and his best weight is 185.
Toney has zero footwork so its going to make him it easier to take him down.

Toney is not an offensive fighter ,he's a counter puncher so he's use to standing sideways instead of a conventional MMA/Boxer stance

Toney is not a power puncher like say Mercer was when he beat Sylvia

Toney is lazy ,he hasnt trained hard for a fight in 10 years so I really wonder how serious he's taking this.Even if Toney can sprawl he'll probably still get stuck up against the cage and pinned there like Vera did

So he shouldnt stand a chance against the former 205 and HW champ

[poopoo333]

Re: UFC 118 Penn-Edgar 2 Toney-Couture

This fight I don't really care about the lines. Ive went back and value betting based on lines is losing me money. I'm just betting straight who I think is going to win regardless of the odds. I'm going to see how that works out over the next few ufc events. I started it on Bellator taking Megu at -800. So far it's working.

Are you going to bet on Randy?

[sideloaded]

Re: UFC 118 Penn-Edgar 2 Toney-Couture

This fight I don't really care about the lines. Ive went back and value betting based on lines is losing me money. I'm just betting straight who I think is going to win regardless of the odds. I'm going to see how that works out over the next few ufc events. I started it on Bellator taking Megu at -800. So far it's working.

Are you going to bet on Randy?

Yes big.