Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

[zY|]

Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

The belly is going to beat him.

[Svino]

Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

If--and that's a big if--Fedor is forced to lose to someone, then it must truly be a great fighter, and not someone barely hanging on to the top 10.

I'd like that to be true, but Fedor's going to be a significant favorite against anyone he fights. In all probability, his first "real" loss will be to a fighter worse than him who happened to be having a good night.

One way to rank fighters is by accomplishment - where you could be totally finished (or dead) and still be high on the list, if you had a great career. Another way is by current talent, where as you say, you could have zero fights and still be a great fighter. The standard way of ranking fighters like Sherdog does is to use kind of a weird mix of the two.

It always seemed to me that the best way to make money betting on MMA is to be able to figure out the difference between the two different lists - to be able watch the fight footage of two guys who are 10-0 against weak fighters and figure out which one is truly great and which one won't be able to beat serious opposition. Or to see which which fighters with great accomplishments are still good, and which just don't have it any more.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

You have a very loose definition of "great fighter" if it includes Overeem and JDS. JDS has put together 2 nice wins. I wouldn't put him in the annals of history just yet.

Overeem could just overwhelm Fedor with size and aggression.

As for JDS, you can be a great fighter and have 0 fights. Being a great fighter is really about ability and nothing else. A lot of people thought Werdum would beat him and he didn't . . . they thought Cro Cop would beat him and he didn't . . . they thought Yvel was going to knock his head off and we see how that worked out . . . then they thought Gonzaga would beat him and he didn't . . .

Keep doubting.

Like I said, he has 2 nice wins (GG and Werdum). Crocop was already done when he fought JDS. Yvel is not even close to being relevant, and no one thought he would beat JDS. Also JDS was the favorite in every one of those fights except Werdum, so I don't really see him as this big underdog that keeps defying the odds.

I am just saying that a couple of wins over guys clinging to the bottom rung of the top 10, makes you a great fighter. You have to win over a sufficient period of time to be considered great, IMO. Otherwise, Sokodjou would be great. Ray Mercer would be great. JDS has the potential for greatness, but he still has a few fights to win.

I am not saying that JDS couldn't beat Fedor, in fact, I would give him a good chance to do so. Same thing with Overeem. But I just take issue that a win by either of them would be somehow more fitting than a loss to Werdum.

The funny thing is that I don't really even like Werdum. He doesn't fight in a way that pleases me, I really wish he would take more risks to try to finish, especially when he is behind on the cards. But I can still recongnize that he is a good fighter and worthy opponent. He is probably going to get KOd, but that just makes him like any other Fedor opponent in the last 3 years...

[SPX]

Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

I'd like that to be true, but Fedor's going to be a significant favorite against anyone he fights.

Yeah, but not like this. I mean shit, I think Bodog has him at -1100. Fedor was only around -500 against Brett Rogers and -300ish against AA and Tim Sylvia.

[MMA_scientist]

Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

I'd like that to be true, but Fedor's going to be a significant favorite against anyone he fights.

Yeah, but not like this. I mean shit, I think Bodog has him at -1100. Fedor was only around -500 against Brett Rogers and -300ish against AA and Tim Sylvia.

Its because Werdum is not as well known and moreso because of his style. All the other guys were strikers that could KO Fedor, which everyone seems to think is the way to beat him. Personally, I feel that his striking is more dangerous than his grappling.

Werdum is definately an big underdog, but no more so than Rogers. I would put Fedor @ -400, -500 at the most.

[Luke]

Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

[quote=MMA_scientist]

So what you are saying is that you admit Werdum does not suck.

Dude, my mother could beat Werdum. Hell, YOUR mother could beat Werdum.

Ok, so you are gay for Overeem.

Also, your mother was has not been proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law, but we all know she likes the brazilian peeni. I suppose you are going to claim ignorance on that one too. Until someone actually shows you a photo of her taking a brown one in the poop chute, she is innocent, right?[/quote:1h3hp207]

[Luke]

Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

You can't knock what Fedor has done, and who he has fought. He has fought tough guys. He can't go running to the UFC every time they present some new flavor of the month.

When Tim and AA were the cream of the UFC, everyone said he was afraid of AA. We saw what happened there. Now they have round robin of wrestlers, and supposedly he is afraid of them. I like Cain an Carwin, but they haven't done anything. Brock beat Mir and and a 47 year old 205er. Fedor is the man, and personally I think Strikeforce's HW's are better than the UFCs. I would put Fedor, Overeem, Werdum, Bigfoot, Rogers and Arlovski against JDS, Brock, Carwin, Cain, Nog and Mir any day.

.

I also agree here .

The UFC has alot of talent but their fighters are still raw imo (JDS,Cain,Carwin,Brock)

[Luke]

Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

They know you're not fighting the best unless you're fighting in the UFC. Which is largely true. Though I would like to see him fight Overeem after that ass whipping Brett Rogers got.

Kind if disagree here bro. UFC has the best division in everything but HW. In fact until 2 years ago the UFC's HW division was a joke. Sylivia Mir,and AA ruling it .Joe Rogan would be completely out of cum from cumming over Fedor if he had been in the UFC 2005-2008

[SPX]

Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

Kind if disagree here bro. UFC has the best division in everything but HW. In fact until 2 years ago the UFC's HW division was a joke. Sylivia Mir,and AA ruling it .Joe Rogan would be completely out of cum from cumming over Fedor if he had been in the UFC 2005-2008

I think that Strikeforce has Fedor. That's it. Fedor.

Wedum is good, but not a contender in the UFC. Overeem? Shit, maybe he could make some waves, but there's only one way to find out. Bigfoot? Again, good, but not a contender. AA? Well. . . Unfortunately, we see where he's at right now. Anyone wanna see AA vs JDS, Cain, or Brock? We know that might not end well for AA.

Who else? Brett Rogers? I actually like Brett Rogers. He's pimp! But he's not beating the top of the division.

I'll just put it this way: There's a reason why the UFC has more top 10 HWs than any other org and that, aside from Fedor, they also have the highest ranking guys as well.

[Luke]

Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

I think that Strikeforce has Fedor. That's it. Fedor.

Wedum is good, but not a contender in the UFC. Overeem? Shit, maybe he could make some waves, but there's only one way to find out. Bigfoot? Again, good, but not a contender. AA? Well. . . Unfortunately, we see where he's at right now. Anyone wanna see AA vs JDS, Cain, or Brock? We know that might not end well for AA.

Who else? Brett Rogers? I actually like Brett Rogers. He's pimp! But he's not beating the top of the division.

I'll just put it this way: There's a reason why the UFC has more top 10 HWs than any other org and that, aside from Fedor, they also have the highest ranking guys as well.

I just think we have to see down the road how good Brock ,JDS,Cain ,and Carwin actually are. They maybe the best in the UFC but none of them really have alot of experience you know what I mean. These top guys maybe the future of MMA or they maybe be the Sylvia ,Mir,and AA of a few years ago. The only way to tell is put them against each other or just let time tell

[zY|]

Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

SPX polishes Dana White's balls on the regular.

[Luke]

Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

SPX polishes Dana White's balls on the regular.

I think Dana White has a strangle hold on Las Vegas. No casino had odds for the Overeem-Rogers strikeforce event and none of them were showing it. Really odd if you ask me


But yes I think SPX likes the UFC way too much

[Ludo]

Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

I think he's said before that Vegas is his town. Not like in the mafia sense, but just that he's so ingrained into just about everything over there, and people know the fertittas so well that the "unholy three" hold alot of clout in Vegas.

[SPX]

Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

But yes I think SPX likes the UFC way too much

I just think that the UFC is on the top of the MMA heap and to argue otherwise seems to be just an attempt at being cool and edgy, or perhaps just an attempt to be a contrarian. I remember hearing one Japanese fighter who got the chance to compete in the UFC describing it as competing in "the Olympics" because they are simply the top org.

That's not to say that I don't like other orgs. I like Strikeforce. The DREAM stuff that I've seen has been pretty cool. And absolutely some of the very best fighters are in other orgs, like Jacare, and Overeem, Aoki (despite the fact that he just got completely owned), Hellboy, Mousasi, etc.

But as a whole the UFC has more top talent than anyone else.

[Luke]

Re: Strikeforce: Fedor VS Werdum

I think he's said before that Vegas is his town. Not like in the mafia sense, but just that he's so ingrained into just about everything over there, and people know the fertittas so well that the "unholy three" hold alot of clout in Vegas.

I believe Dana thinks its his town. Like I said NO ONE was showing strikeforce and none of the casinos even had odds on it .I never even heard of shit like that,it was like no one even knew the event was on.