2010 Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

[SPX]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

Lets go out on a limb and say, for the sake of argument, that if there is no "line" as far as age of consent beyond cultural boundaries then things like murder, torture, and or slavery are also entirely culture based mindsets. If we're going to get into that line of thinking we might as well go back and reconsider our stance on the ideals of Hitler and his beliefs, as well as how he applied them. We might also take a look at Stalin's activities other than the tunnels built around Moscow, the African rebels/quasi military groups brutalizing many cities as we speak, and even the Taliban's place in the world if we are to begin thinking this way. Where is the line? Who decides where it stands or who ends up on which side of it? What is the criteria separating a "good" person from a "bad" one?

I actually would agree with you and argue that ANY sort of morality is culturally based, or at least based within the individual minds of a single human being. Your "common sense" is more shaped by your culture that you believe.

I can't prove that murder, torture, or slavery is wrong. But I FEEL that it is wrong. Someone else may not. Can I prove that they are wrong? No.

So if I oppose murder, torture, or slavery--which I am apt to do--then I have to at least admit that I am transforming myself into a mini-dictator and forcing my own views of morality and goodness on others.

[zY|]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

Well now you're taking the discussion somewhere else. The motives of adults. I agree that there are a bunch of 18+s who would make it their mission to fuck the shit out of as many kids as they could if they could get away with it.

I'm more talking about a younger person's ability to make decisions in the face of a sincerely affectionate individual. Personally, I place it at 14. Because I think that at 14 a person has the mental faculties to run his/her own life if necessary (hold a job, pay bills, etc.). Sure, they may make stupid decisions, but the thing is that people make stupid decisions forever.

Like I said, everyone has their own criteria and will disagree over the actual age, but you're agreeing that there should be an 'age of consent'. That's really all my argument was. I don't care to quibble over 14-18 or whatever. However, I sure as fuck don't want 14 year olds driving. Good lord.

And I'm happy to see that Ludo has invoked Godwin's Law.

[Ludo]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

Lets go out on a limb and say, for the sake of argument, that if there is no "line" as far as age of consent beyond cultural boundaries then things like murder, torture, and or slavery are also entirely culture based mindsets. If we're going to get into that line of thinking we might as well go back and reconsider our stance on the ideals of Hitler and his beliefs, as well as how he applied them. We might also take a look at Stalin's activities other than the tunnels built around Moscow, the African rebels/quasi military groups brutalizing many cities as we speak, and even the Taliban's place in the world if we are to begin thinking this way. Where is the line? Who decides where it stands or who ends up on which side of it? What is the criteria separating a "good" person from a "bad" one?

I actually would agree with you and argue that ANY sort of morality is culturally based, or at least based within the individual minds of a single human being. Your "common sense" is more shaped by your culture that you believe.

I can't prove that murder, torture, or slavery is wrong. But I FEEL that it is wrong. Someone else may not. Can I prove that they are wrong? No.

So if I oppose murder, torture, or slavery--which I am apt to do--then I have to at least admit that I am transforming myself into a mini-dictator and forcing my own views of morality and goodness on others.

Bingo. There are only two kinds of positions here. Lions and Lambs.

[SPX]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

Like I said, everyone has their own criteria and will disagree over the actual age, but you're agreeing that there should be an 'age of consent'. That's really all my argument was. I don't care to quibble over 14-18 or whatever. However, I sure as fuck don't want 14 year olds driving. Good lord.

I do agree that there should be a cut off . . . but I can't prove it as a moral absolute.

And I'm happy to see that Ludo has invoked Godwin's Law.

LOL

[SPX]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

Bingo. There are only two kinds of positions here. Lions and Lambs.

A fair and interesting observation.

I think it's 100% true. We force our own viewpoint.

What happens when you get part-lion, part-lamb, though?

Humanity finds itself in a yin-yang situation, in my view. We're all a little of both.

[zY|]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

[quote=SPX]

Like I said, everyone has their own criteria and will disagree over the actual age, but you're agreeing that there should be an 'age of consent'. That's really all my argument was. I don't care to quibble over 14-18 or whatever. However, I sure as fuck don't want 14 year olds driving. Good lord.

I do agree that there should be a cut off . . . but I can't prove it as a moral absolute.

And I'm happy to see that Ludo has invoked Godwin's Law.

LOL[/quote:15rlj4lx]

You can't prove what as a moral absolute? That some 10 year old wanting to bang some middle aged dude isn't wrong? Perhaps it's not. He's just a naive child. But I can guarantee the reasoning behind it is because kids are extremely impressionable and the adult is a predatory asshole.

[SPX]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

You can't prove what as a moral absolute? That some 10 year old wanting to bang some middle aged dude isn't wrong? Perhaps it's not. He's just a naive child. But I can guarantee the reasoning behind it is because kids are extremely impressionable and the adult is a predatory asshole.

Agreed. On all counts.

[zY|]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

You can't prove what as a moral absolute? That some 10 year old wanting to bang some middle aged dude isn't wrong? Perhaps it's not. He's just a naive child. But I can guarantee the reasoning behind it is because kids are extremely impressionable and the adult is a predatory asshole.

Agreed. On all counts.

So wtf are we supposed to talk about then?

[Ludo]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

There can't be a middle ground though. Because inevitably there is someone else who finds even that to be unacceptable. This creates "enemies". That of course provides us with a much more complicated spectrum simply because morality applies even there. After your done differentiating between the right and wrong, then the tolerable and intolerable, the enemy and friend, and finally what parts of the above apply to enemies and friends.

While it may not be acceptable to rape/murder/torture/molest an innocent person in this line of thinking, is it so for a non innocent? Why or why not. Unfortunately this is kind of like a nuclear bomb. The more you look into it the more it grows exponentially.

[Ludo]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

[quote=zY|]

You can't prove what as a moral absolute? That some 10 year old wanting to bang some middle aged dude isn't wrong? Perhaps it's not. He's just a naive child. But I can guarantee the reasoning behind it is because kids are extremely impressionable and the adult is a predatory asshole.

Agreed. On all counts.

So wtf are we supposed to talk about then?[/quote:2qfkas9u]


How about quantum physics?

[SPX]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

So wtf are we supposed to talk about then?

Ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, I don't know. We can keep going. I gave up moral absolutes when I gave up Christianity.

I actually got into a discussion about child abuse not too long ago. Personally, I FEEL that child abuse is wrong. I would fight against it. But I can't prove that it is wrong. I said as much on a date that I was on and it turned into this big shit that ended up ending horribly.

[zY|]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

There can't be a middle ground though. Because inevitably there is someone else who finds even that to be unacceptable. This creates "enemies". That of course provides us with a much more complicated spectrum simply because morality applies even there. After your done differentiating between the right and wrong, then the tolerable and intolerable, the enemy and friend, and finally what parts of the above apply to enemies and friends.

While it may not be acceptable to rape/murder/torture/molest an innocent person in this line of thinking, is it so for a non innocent? Why or why not. Unfortunately this is kind of like a nuclear bomb. The more you look into it the more it grows exponentially.

That's why I just prefer to think about more pragmatic things. That kind of open-ended philosophy just wastes so much time.

[doublearmbar]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

Evolution forces us to make enemies and destroy them because we want our genetics to dominate. Why I'm not sure.

[zY|]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

So wtf are we supposed to talk about then?

Ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, I don't know. We can keep going. I gave up moral absolutes when I gave up Christianity.

I actually got into a discussion about child abuse not too long ago. Personally, I FEEL that child abuse is wrong. I would fight against it. But I can't prove that it is wrong. I said as much on a date that I was on and it turned into this big shit that ended up ending horribly.

LOL.

Mr. Smooth

[zY|]

Re: Off topic thread(basketball,movies,etc whatever)

So wtf are we supposed to talk about then?

How about quantum physics?

Relax, Matt Horwich.