UFC 129 toronto GSP-Shields

[Ludo]

I don't know. I just have never been that impressed by Howard. Yes, he has had his moments, but he looked like shit again the Barncat, was 10 seconds away to losing to Hallman, and arguably lose to Charlie Brenneman right before he came to the UFC.



Well Rocha destroyed McCray, who you could argue just beat Hathaway, who beat Diego and Rick Story.

That's MMAth, I know.

Hathaways hype train got derailed by Mike Pyle, so McCray beating him doesn't mean a whole lot.

[SPX]

Thats not really a fair assessment on the Howard fight. Ellenberger isn't a world beating striker and he's by no means a Muay Thai guy. Howard caught him and he has monster power in his strikes. It could have happened to anybody. He had to strike for a while to set up a takedown because if he became a one trick pony he had no shot.

I don't know. I just have never been that impressed by Howard. Yes, he has had his moments, but he looked like shit again the Barncat, was 10 seconds away to losing to Hallman, and arguably lose to Charlie Brenneman right before he came to the UFC.

Rocha I think looked better than he actually is simply because his jui jitsu is so dangerous it more or less forced Ellenberger to stand. Rocha looked cool because he was throwing all kinds of flashy ass kicks and stuff because he didn't care about getting taken down.

Well Rocha destroyed McCray, who you could argue just beat Hathaway, who beat Diego and Rick Story.

That's MMAth, I know.

[SPX]

SPX your PM box is full so I can't reply to you.

Try again.

[edman5555]

He is really active and powerful from what I have seen. I don't know that he can take Nate down... but he may be able to beat him standing anyway. He looks a little more dynamic than Nate on the ground, but I would put my money on Nate in a grappling match, he has some of the best finishing skills in the UFC. He has a sick guillotine and he has that triangle. I think Nate will catch him in a guillotine personally.

Alright I will stay away from him.

[MMA_scientist]

Is Rory's BJJ really that good? I know people talk about him like he is the next big thing and I think he could be but can he avoid a Nate Diaz triangle?

He is really active and powerful from what I have seen. I don't know that he can take Nate down... but he may be able to beat him standing anyway. He looks a little more dynamic than Nate on the ground, but I would put my money on Nate in a grappling match, he has some of the best finishing skills in the UFC. He has a sick guillotine and he has that triangle. I think Nate will catch him in a guillotine personally.

[edman5555]

Is Rory's BJJ really that good? I know people talk about him like he is the next big thing and I think he could be but can he avoid a Nate Diaz triangle?

[edman5555]

Anyone know how big Rory Mcdonald is?

[edman5555]

Thats not really a fair assessment on the Howard fight. Ellenberger isn't a world beating striker and he's by no means a Muay Thai guy. Howard caught him and he has monster power in his strikes. It could have happened to anybody. He had to strike for a while to set up a takedown because if he became a one trick pony he had no shot.

Rocha I think looked better than he actually is simply because his jui jitsu is so dangerous it more or less forced Ellenberger to stand. Rocha looked cool because he was throwing all kinds of flashy ass kicks and stuff because he didn't care about getting taken down.

Yeah good point about the strikes and not caring about getting taken down. Another thing is Rocha is amazing on the ground. That is clear. Pierson is not going to present any kind of threat like that so I don't really think its pertinent. Either way, Ellenberger did win that fight. It was only close because EB thought he could hang with Rocha on the ground and learned his lesson. After that he used his wrestling and striking to sprawl and brawl to a close decision. Had he understood how good he was on the ground I think he could have fairly easily sprawled and brawled his way to a victory. He had a really close fight with Condit that could have gone either way and I have a really high opinion on Condit(he can be outwrestled but Jake almost TKO'd him). Aside from that fight he TKO' Mike pyle and John Howard. He does have a loss to Rick Story which atm makes me think pretty highly of Rick Story. Though he did beat Mike Pyle who beat John Hathaway who beat Rick Story. MMAmath win.

I hear what PP is saying though, we don't know much about Pierson. I don't think he is on Ellenbergers level though. He was good enough to stuff Riddle when he shot. I'm not sure Riddle was shooting a lot in their fight though( I only read PBP). I think he basically won the fight by outstriking Riddle but something tells me Riddles striking sucks. Anyways Ellenberger seems more like a pro where I think Pierson isn't quite on that level. I think Ellenberger takes it.

[MMA_scientist]

Aldo is going to smash Hominick easily IMO. It is probably his easiest title defense to date.

Ellenberger is going to win. I arbed it out, but I still think he will win.


SPX your PM box is full so I can't reply to you.


Havis Jr.... Welcome back, where did you go?

[Ludo]

Thats not really a fair assessment on the Howard fight. Ellenberger isn't a world beating striker and he's by no means a Muay Thai guy. Howard caught him and he has monster power in his strikes. It could have happened to anybody. He had to strike for a while to set up a takedown because if he became a one trick pony he had no shot.

Rocha I think looked better than he actually is simply because his jui jitsu is so dangerous it more or less forced Ellenberger to stand. Rocha looked cool because he was throwing all kinds of flashy ass kicks and stuff because he didn't care about getting taken down.

[SPX]

Ellenberger looked just fine against Howard. He got hurt real bad early on and Howard more or less tried to stall him out anytime it got to the ground which forced him to really work hard just to get those shots off that ended up fucking Howards eye up.

You could make the argument that if Ellenberger's really the shit then he should've never gotten hurt in the first place. I honestly expected him to blow right through Howard and he ended up taking a lot more damage--and just looking generally unimpressive--than I expected.

I remember when I placed that bet that I was thinking, "Easy money."

The Rocha fight was terrible though.

It was, but I'm not sure why.

Did Ellenberger not bring his A-game, or is Rocha just that good? I'm tempted to think that Rocha might just be that good.

[Ludo]

Ellenberger looked just fine against Howard. He got hurt real bad early on and Howard more or less tried to stall him out anytime it got to the ground which forced him to really work hard just to get those shots off that ended up fucking Howards eye up. The Rocha fight was terrible though.

[SPX]

Ellenberger slows down, but so does Pierson.

So, like wrestling, the gassing should cancel out.

[poopoo333]

Just a feeling I have. I think Ellenberger will slow down in rounds 2 and 3, kind of like he did in all of his fights except for the Mike Pyle beatdown. I don't know, I am probably wrong, but I just think it's gonna be a close fight and Pierson is going to have the momentum. I also don't feel comfortable betting against a guy I have only seen one fight of

[SPX]

Do we know Ellebergers wrestling is better than Piersons?

Pierson's fight with Riddle is the only one I've seen. He did a pretty good job of stuffing Riddle the few times Riddle shot, but Riddle's shots were slow and few. Also, Riddle did get a hold of him at the end of the second in the only real ground fighting that was done in the whole fight and Riddle was clearly in control.

Ellenberger's wrestling is pretty damn good. I think that if he puts some effort into it, he'll take Pierson down and end up on top.