BJ Penn Vs Nick Diaz - UFC 137

[SPX]

I remember when I went through basic training that I ran lots of miles and then marched a lot more than I ran. I won't say that I trained as hard as an MMA fighter, but it was a fuckload of exercise, and when it was over with I was definitely in BETTER shape but I have little doubt that even then I probably would be pretty damn tired even after one active MMA round, even at that point in my life.

I've never had great cardio, though. Ever. So I definitely think that some people are just naturally more physically inclined toward having good cardio, just like some people are more naturally inclined toward building muscle and having superior strength.

[poopoo333]

It seems to work for Diaz, but triathlon type training won't always carry over for fighters to have superior cardio in a fight. You have guys who can run 10 miles without a problem come into a BJJ class and get exhausted two minutes into rolling. Obviously BJ can be way better conditioned, but to come to the conclusion that anybody that trains hard for 12 weeks is going to be a "cardio machine" is just silly.

[MMA_scientist]

Your telling me someone who should be running multiple miles a day, doing sprints, swimming, etc. cant last 15-25 minutes in a cage every 3 or 4 months. I'm sorry but any athlete should be able to condition themselves to last that long.

I will say that it is more tiring than you would think by watching. You see college wrestlers gassing out badly in 6 minute matches. They train all the time with a full time coach and many of them still gas out in what is equivalent to 1 round of MMA. That said, BJ can definitely do better, he has shown better cardio in the past... he is just lazy and doesn't work it as hard as he should. Diaz works hard and looks like he probably has a physiological advantage (lots of red muscle fibers, not so many white, etc.)

[MMA_scientist]

So when exactly was "prime LW BJ"?

Basically every fight he had at LW. except Edgar. Even now, I think only Edgar could beat him @ LW, but many people think BJ won the first fight. Re: BJ's cardio, he was clearly superior in Rd 1, no one could have scored that for Diaz. But in Rd 2, did he just get less skilled? Did his takedowns just suddenly become sloppy dives? He gassed out. As to your close fight thing, he stayed with Fitch for 2 rounds before wilting... he had the fight won, all he had to do is not get totally pounded for 5 minutes and give up a 10-8... he just didn't have it left in the tank, he wasn't mentally broken after clearly winning 2 rounds.

I don't care about Condit's feelings either though, just think that DFW is a douche.

[Vandelay]

Looks like a good photoshop to me.

[Mr. IWS]

Do any of us really know what BJ does in training, though?

I know that nigga picks up boulders and runs under water with Justin McCully.

Like a boss

[Mr. IWS]

Your telling me someone who should be running multiple miles a day, doing sprints, swimming, etc. cant last 15-25 minutes in a cage every 3 or 4 months. I'm sorry but any athlete should be able to condition themselves to last that long. Now maybe their are other factors such as anxiety or improper breathing patterns or something, but theres no reason a professional athlete who gets paid to fight can't be conditioned. Conditioning isn't something thats fun, it's something that is required to succeed in a sport.

100000000000% agree

[SPX]

Do any of us really know what BJ does in training, though?

[Vandelay]

Your telling me someone who should be running multiple miles a day, doing sprints, swimming, etc. cant last 15-25 minutes in a cage every 3 or 4 months. I'm sorry but any athlete should be able to condition themselves to last that long. Now maybe their are other factors such as anxiety or improper breathing patterns or something, but theres no reason a professional athlete who gets paid to fight can't be conditioned. Conditioning isn't something thats fun, it's something that is required to succeed in a sport.

[poopoo333]

Condit will probably fight GSP next, Diaz is gonna fail his drug test for smoking weed

[Mr. IWS]

Kinda sucks for Condit here.

-GSP gets hurt, so he doesnt get his title shot Saturday night
-The way Penn looked, condit probably would have beat him if he would have kept that fight originally
-Now he doesnt get a win over penn to strenghten his resume, and doenst get his title shot.

[poopoo333]

To be fair, can you give any real evidence for this?

I mean, can everyone lift weights (and even take steroids) and look like Arnold Schwarzenegger? Don't you think that genetics plays a role in regard to a person's body?

I agree, not everybody can reach the same level of conditioning. Some people are more gifted than others.

[Mr. IWS]

So when exactly was "prime LW BJ"?

I think it's far more simple. When BJ wins, he dominates and looks awesome. When he fights someone with the skills to compete with him, he wilts, looks like shit, and quits. The cardio angle is a huge fallacy imo. No, he's never going to have the conditioning of a Nick Diaz or a GSP(solely physiologically, I'd say), but he never gasses when he's winning fights. He didn't even look a little tired vs Florian or Diego, fights that went long with both guys trying to tire him out. He didn't gas vs Uno or Pulver 100 years ago. When he's in a competitive fight he ends up mentally checking out and just stands there not doing a whole lot. Quick, when's the last time BJ Penn won a close fight? Matt Serra back in 2002?

I just think he's losing to better fighters. He got shutout by Frank Edgar in the rematch, conditioning had nothing to do with it. Got thrown on his head twice in the first round. Actually his best moments of that fight were in the 4th and 5th with his takedowns and back control.

That said, clearly he's not in great shape at welterweight and he never belonged there to begin with. He has the offensive skills to compete for awhile but he can't hang around long term with guys at that weight. I wonder how differently his career would've gone had he not gotten his signature victory over Hughes in 2004 and decided he was invincible.

Also getting your ass kicked tires you out.

For a second there, I thought you where talking about Mir.

[SPX]

Bullshit conitioning is a physiological issue. If bj went through diaz' training his conitionion would be just as good.

To be fair, can you give any real evidence for this?

I mean, can everyone lift weights (and even take steroids) and look like Arnold Schwarzenegger? Don't you think that genetics plays a role in regard to a person's body?

[Vandelay]

Bullshit. conitioning has nothing to do with someones physiological makeup. If bj went through diaz' training his conitionion would be just as good. He obviously just doesnt give a shit about it. Mayb he should of stuck wtih the marinovich guy. Once he dumped him he wasnt as good physically.