UFC 158 MArch 16th

[poopoo333]

I think we are going to see Ellenberger vs Maia next.

Who does Condit fight next? Marquardt? Saffiedine?

[SPX]

Brawling works pretty well in MMA. I think "technical" striking is kind of overrated in MMA. And I hate to say this, but technical grappling is overrated too. A boxing match is 12 rounds, the damage adds up. A grappling match is scored on nuances, so having a foot here as opposed the there matters. But in MMA, it seems like you need a basic level of technique, and some power. I would say the biggest upside to "technical" striking in MMA is that you avoid getting hit, not so much that it helps you deliver more. The same with grappling, really technical grapplers are less prone to ending up under mount or side control, so it helps defensively, but in MMA, where the rules don't force you to engage, I think being powerful is more important for actually imposing your grappling.

Some interesting thoughts. . .

I guess the way I see it is that being aggressive and being a brawler will always be effective, but only to get you to a certain point. For instance, if a division is a mountain, maybe you'll get a third of the way up. So there will be a lot of guys you can beat and you can certainly find a place in the sport. But the guys at the very top will always be the guys who have mastered the technical aspects . . . your GSPs, Silvas, Cruz's, Aldos and JDS, etc. That's just the way it seems to work out.

If someone who just "throws hard punches" gets lucky and gets a belt, they don't don't to hang onto it very long.

. . . and GSP is getting more and more cautious with every outing.

GSP . . . Gotta Score Points

[MMA_scientist]

I think we are going to see Ellenberger vs Maia next.

Who does Condit fight next? Marquardt? Saffiedine?

Sadly, I think you are right. I don't want that fight at all, but it makes sense as a title eliminator. I would like to see Maia get a fight against a non-wrestler at some point in his career. I would like to see Condit/Maia and Ellenberger/Rory.

They may put together Condit/Rory. Although, I want to see Rory fight at least 1 wrestlebrawler... he is getting the Dan Hardy treatment. While Hendricks, Fitch, Pierce, Ellenberger, Koscheck all have to fight each other, Rory is somehow avoiding this gauntlet. He hasn't had to fight 1 wrestler.

[SPX]

I think we are going to see Ellenberger vs Maia next.

Who does Condit fight next? Marquardt? Saffiedine?

Ellenberger's power makes that interesting.

As for Condit, I dunno. Maybe Marq. Saff would be interesting but wouldn't be loser vs loser (not that it always works out that way).

[poopoo333]

I think Maia beats Ellenberger. I think they will give Condit someone he SHOULD beat...maybe a Kampmann rematch (although he lost the 1st fight). I just don't see him losing 3 in a row.

They should give Rory MacDonald a fight against Rick Story.

[MMA_scientist]

Some interesting thoughts. . .

I guess the way I see it is that being aggressive and being a brawler will always be effective, but only to get you to a certain point. For instance, if a division is a mountain, maybe you'll get a third of the way up. So there will be a lot of guys you can beat and you can certainly find a place in the sport. But the guys at the very top will always be the guys who have mastered the technical aspects . . . your GSPs, Silvas, Cruz's, Aldos and JDS, etc. That's just the way it seems to work out.

If someone who just "throws hard punches" gets lucky and gets a belt, they don't don't to hang onto it very long.

I agree with most of that. But I don't know if Cain is an exceptionally technical striker. Jon Jones is long, but I wouldn't say he is an excellent kickboxer. I don't know, it seems to me the most important factor in dominance is being able to force your strength on your opponent, whatever that may be.

I do agree that guys that are not as technically sound tend to come and go much quicker. If Hendricks wins the belt, I don't think he will defend it more than once. One one hand, he has only lost once, and that was close... but on the other hand, he couldve lost to Kos and Condit, and Pierce. I wouldn't favor him much over Kos, Pierce, or Condit in a rematch, if at all. I would favor him over Story now, but I wouldn't rule out Story beating him.

[MMA_scientist]

I think Maia beats Ellenberger. I think they will give Condit someone he SHOULD beat...maybe a Kampmann rematch (although he lost the 1st fight). I just don't see him losing 3 in a row.

They should give Rory MacDonald a fight against Rick Story.

I hope you are right, I would love to see Maia in a title fight again. I think Ellenberger might blast him though. I want Maia against someone he can take down for sure, that's why I want Maia/Condit. I would even take Maia/Diaz, though Diaz needs to fight someone who will talk shit with him. It is hard to shit talk Maia, and he won't respond.

WW is by far the deepest division. Lawler, Kampmann is in there somewhere too, Diego, Woodley, Saffidiene, Koscheck, Pierce, I guess Hathaway is back in the picture... there are bunch of fights at WW I would like to see. WW is awesome.

[poopoo333]

I think Maia could take Ellenberger down..did you see what he did to Fitch? Granted...Fitch has shown shitty defensive wrestling in the past, but Ellenberger does not have the best cardio. I think if Maia forces a grappling match for 1.5 rounds or so, Ellenberger will tire and his power won't be as effective.

[MMA_scientist]

I think Maia could take Ellenberger down..did you see what he did to Fitch? Granted...Fitch has shown shitty defensive wrestling in the past, but Ellenberger does not have the best cardio. I think if Maia forces a grappling match for 1.5 rounds or so, Ellenberger will tire and his power won't be as effective.

Yeah, just Ellenberger hits a lot harder than Fitch. I think Ellenberger might be slightly better wrestler too. I will say that Ellenberger had his hands full with Rocha when they fought. But Maia gets tired too, he gasses out about midway through round 2 in virtually every fight. He didn't gas against Fitch though, so maybe it was an issue of fighting bigger guys.

[SPX]

I agree with most of that. But I don't know if Cain is an exceptionally technical striker. Jon Jones is long, but I wouldn't say he is an excellent kickboxer. I don't know, it seems to me the most important factor in dominance is being able to force your strength on your opponent, whatever that may be.

I would say in terms of technical striking ability, Cain is probably at the bottom of the list of all the champs. But I have still seen some things from him that required a lot of precision, like the combo he landed on Nog to knock Nog out.

As for Jones, I definitely think he is very technical. Seems like almost anything he throws lands.

I do agree that guys that are not as technically sound tend to come and go much quicker. If Hendricks wins the belt, I don't think he will defend it more than once. One one hand, he has only lost once, and that was close... but on the other hand, he couldve lost to Kos and Condit, and Pierce. I wouldn't favor him much over Kos, Pierce, or Condit in a rematch, if at all. I would favor him over Story now, but I wouldn't rule out Story beating him.

That's interesting, coming from you. But I think I agree. Maybe he'd defend it twice.

I thought Kos beat him, though.

[MMA_scientist]

As for Jones, I definitely think he is very technical. Seems like almost anything he throws lands.

I guess. I think his length helps him a lot, and the fact that you can't get to close to him or he will throw you on your head. He certainly doesn't win striking exchanges with his power. I guess you could say he is technical, but he doesn't have a very classical technical style... I don't think he moves his feet that well, and he doesn't roll with punches or evade real well. I don't think he has ever dropped someone has he?

That's interesting, coming from you. But I think I agree. Maybe he'd defend it twice.

I thought Kos beat him, though.

Well he would probably fight Rory in his first defense, and he would most likely lose that or immediate rematch with GSP. So I guess it would depend who he fought.

[poopoo333]

Speaking of Jones...serious question here. Will Chael be able to put him on his back at least once? I don't think we have really seen anybody actually try/commit to a takedown on Jones more than once.

[SPX]

I guess. I think his length helps him a lot, and the fact that you can't get to close to him or he will throw you on your head. He certainly doesn't win striking exchanges with his power. I guess you could say he is technical, but he doesn't have a very classical technical style... I don't think he moves his feet that well, and he doesn't roll with punches or evade real well. I don't think he has ever dropped someone has he?

Yes, well I'd say it sounds like you're kind of approaching it from a "boxing" standpoint. Think about Machida. I certainly don't think you'd say he employs a "classical technical style" in the boxing sense, but you certainly couldn't say he's not technical.

As for Jones dropping someone, not that I can think off the top of my head. But Edgar doesn't drop a lot of guys either.

[MMA_scientist]

Yes, well I'd say it sounds like you're kind of approaching it from a "boxing" standpoint. Think about Machida. I certainly don't think you'd say he employs a "classical technical style" in the boxing sense, but you certainly couldn't say he's not technical.

As for Jones dropping someone, not that I can think off the top of my head. But Edgar doesn't drop a lot of guys either.

But you would say that Machida is employing a classical karate style. I don't think I have seen many guys striking like Jones, so I would say he is an unorthodox striker. I suppose he is more effective than I originally gave him credit for. Cruz is the same way I guess.

[SPX]

I guess we should maybe define "technical." The way I see it is that if a guy is able to throw accurate strikes that land where he intends them to while employing good defense in the process, then he is a pretty good technical striker. This is, of course, in comparison to someone like Leonard Garcia who throws a lot of wild shit, misses a lot, and basically just hopes something will land.

With Jones, I definitely think he's unorthodox, but he lands a very high percentage of his strikes while not getting hit much in return. Regardless of how it is that he's doing it, he's getting it done.