2015 Off Topic Thread

[Svino]

Justin Wren, the MMA fighter who found redemption among the Pygmies

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/sep/16/justin-wren-the-mma-fighter-who-found-redemption-among-the-pygmies

Interesting to see what he did after the UFC. Maybe he can train one of them and they can fight Demetrius Johnson.

[Mr. IWS]

Conclusion

I think a strong case can be made for the demon theory. There is definitely some good evidence to suggest that M. Night had a few tricks up his sleeve with this script and there's a hidden narrative within the main story. The detracting evidence, however, is strong I think. While less voluminous than the supporting evidence, it nonetheless punches some pretty big logical holes into the demonic interpretation. (Although one could argue that demons are masters of deception.)

One thing that is definitely true is that the demon theory allows you to resolve certain narrative problems like, "Why would the demons come down without protective suits on?" and "Really? WATER?!"

Personally, I think that one's own openness to the theory will depend on how much weight you place on certain factors. If you just can't get over the detracting evidence, then that's understandable. On the other hand, if you find the supporting evidence to be strong enough that you clearly feel like Shyamalan is trying to say SOMETHING that's not obvious on the surface, then I can definitely understand that as well.

For me, I think the movie works (albeit imperfectly) as a film about an alien invasion. I also think it works (albeit imperfectly) as a movie about demonic forces at work. And I know that I'll never be able to watch it again without interpreting it on both levels, regardless of what the director intended. Though I will say this: If the theory is correct, and M. Night intentionally encoded this hidden story-within-a-story in the movie, knowing that only a few would ever see this hidden meaning, then he is a GENIUS and Signs stands as an even better movie that I previously gave it credit for.

Really good shit man

[SPX]

That actually doesn't address the main problem with the water at all (ie: the whole atmosphere and most of the planet is water).

A few things here. . .

First, there are a lot of things that are safe for humans in small amounts but fatally toxic in high doses. It could be the same for these aliens, which is why the atmosphere does not bother them. Also, there's a lot of water on the planet, but there's also a shitload of land. If they have the intelligence and technology to get here in the first place, surely they have the ability to simply stay away from large bodies of water.

I think the bigger issue is rain. But even that can be worked around. For instance, it would make sense for the aliens to be able to forecast and understand the weather and simply operate on the surface when rain is not a threat.

But I think the biggest thing we have to think about here is that we never really know their motivation. Why exactly are they here? Perhaps they're in desperation mode. In any case, it seems they deemed the risk-to-reward ratio to be worth it and now they're here. That's all we need to know for the story to work.

As far as the higher power comments, I'm not sure how to describe why I don't like it. I mean it's definitely cliched, but I think my problem is it comes across to me as ham-fisted and clumsy. Maybe even a bit childish and naive how neat and tidy everything comes together. If that makes sense.

"Swing away, Merrill" is the best part of the film though. The climax is cool if you can get suspend your disbelief over the water allergies.

I think that's just M. Night's style. He is a bit on-the-nose with things. It doesn't bother me. I actually kind of like it because there's an open sincerity there. I guess if that is a bother though, then his films just aren't for you.

[zY|]

She is definitely special. If there is any single point that you can look to for this it's the scene that I pointed out earlier where she says, "There's a monster outside my room. Can I have a glass of water?" I didn't really pick up on this until someone tipped me off about it, but she's very clearly asking for something that she knows will protect her here. She's not saying she's thirsty. By this point, water had never even been mentioned in the story so what we're really being told is that she has some sort of secret knowledge and/or special abilities.

Even if the demon theory is totally wrong, there is still something objectively special about her character.

Maybe. I'd have to rewatch it to really say, which I'm probably not going to do, haha. Even still, it's pretty obscure as it isn't explained.

first off, I think that Signs is an awesome film regardless. I loved it before I had even run across the demon theory. I just love it more now. So it's brilliance certainly does not rely upon anything more than a surface reading of the film.

We're just going to disagree here. It's an aight movie, with some well done aspects, but as a whole it just doesn't come together for me.

And the water twist, in my opinion, is still defensible on its own. The movie ultimately asks this question: Is everything random and meaningless or is there a higher power with a grand plan at work? Are coincidences in life just that or do they mean something?

Bo's weird water habits just seem like a strange quirk at first, but in the end they are the key to overcoming the creature that invades their house. By the end:

Bo's birth
The mother's death / Ray Reddy falling asleep at the wheel PRECISELY when he did
Bo's water habits
Morgan's Asthma
Merrill's baseball career

. . . all come together in the vanquishing of this evil that has come into their lives. Even if we take the film solely at face value, I am still impressed.

That actually doesn't address the main problem with the water at all (ie: the whole atmosphere and most of the planet is water).

As far as the higher power comments, I'm not sure how to describe why I don't like it. I mean it's definitely cliched, but I think my problem is it comes across to me as ham-fisted and clumsy. Maybe even a bit childish and naive how neat and tidy everything comes together. If that makes sense.

"Swing away, Merrill" is the best part of the film though. The climax is cool if you can get suspend your disbelief over the water allergies.

[SPX]

We should both go see Everest this weekend and report back

I'm down.

[SPX]

Jesus H, did you write all those posts or get them from somewhere else? If you wrote them, you should be writing on your own movie website. Well done(if thats the case).

I did write it, and thanks. I re-watched the movie on Sunday night and took most of yesterday putting the post together. I HAVE actually thought about trying to do a movie site or blog, and have also wanted to maybe get something going on YouTube. Need a camera for the latter though and I don't have one.

Anyway, I think you can make an arguement for demons or aliens, its according to your mindeset and what "you" see in the movie. I have to admit, I havent seen the movie in 10 years either. I think the biggest arguemebt for demons is the Bo and the water. Its almost like shes the holy one who was put there to protect everyone.

The fact they call them aliens, they come from the sky, and they are doing things to protect themselves from aliens gives the arguement they are acutally aliens and they are just putting faith in god to protect them

I would have to watch the movie again to give a better opinion, but don't think there "needs" to be a definte answer to what they are. The fact people talk about it still is good enough for the film makers, imo

good post

I mostly agree, though demons are fallen angels, and angels are also thought of as coming from the sky. But in any case, you should re-watch the movie with this theory in mind. It's a pretty interesting experience.

Personally, Signs is my #2 in the M. Night canon. The Village is my favorite (which seems to be a controversial opinion).

[SPX]

Why is Bo special? Is she? Maybe she's just meant to be creepy and weird. This is M Night Shymalan after all. And both of the kids are pretty damn weird, to be honest.

She is definitely special. If there is any single point that you can look to for this it's the scene that I pointed out earlier where she says, "There's a monster outside my room. Can I have a glass of water?" I didn't really pick up on this until someone tipped me off about it, but she's very clearly asking for something that she knows will protect her here. She's not saying she's thirsty. By this point, water had never even been mentioned in the story so what we're really being told is that she has some sort of secret knowledge and/or special abilities.

Even if the demon theory is totally wrong, there is still something objectively special about her character.

Why don't the alien craft show up on radar? Maybe because they're technologically advanced enough to invade another planet.

Which I acknowledged.

Three cities from the Middle East? Ok, sure, but it's just a throw-away line reinforcing the theme of faith.

Well as I mentioned, it's not just the bit about three cities in the Middle East, it's that combined with them having found a "primitive method." I think it's curious that never--ever--do any news broadcasts say anything about water. The only mention of the humans' defense is a "primitive method" discovered in the Middle East.

So that's at least interesting if nothing else.

If the demon theory is to be believed, then M Night is living and dying by his "water twist", which is ultimately my main problem with this theory. If your intention is to craft a film that relies so intensely upon an esoteric metaphor that overlooking it relegates your film from 'genius' all the way down to recycle bin status. . .

Well first off, I think that Signs is an awesome film regardless. I loved it before I had even run across the demon theory. I just love it more now. So it's brilliance certainly does not rely upon anything more than a surface reading of the film.

And the water twist, in my opinion, is still defensible on its own. The movie ultimately asks this question: Is everything random and meaningless or is there a higher power with a grand plan at work? Are coincidences in life just that or do they mean something?

Bo's weird water habits just seem like a strange quirk at first, but in the end they are the key to overcoming the creature that invades their house. By the end:

Bo's birth
The mother's death / Ray Reddy falling asleep at the wheel PRECISELY when he did
Bo's water habits
Morgan's Asthma
Merrill's baseball career

. . . all come together in the vanquishing of this evil that has come into their lives. Even if we take the film solely at face value, I am still impressed.

And as I said about the demon theory, I don't necessarily believe it. I mostly just think it's interesting and it gives me a new way to watch the movie. But I DO think it's plausible and COULD very well be true. If nothing else, I would not be surprised if M. Night intended for the film to generally be watched in the usual way, with the surface level interpretation, but also meant for it to be able to be interpreted alternatively as well.

I actually sent links to this to a friend of mine. He's a very skeptical type--a former Jehovah's Witness turned atheist who demands evidence for everything. And he had this to say:

I enjoyed this. You actually have me convinced that M. Night definitely wanted the audience to flirt with the idea of demons. He didn't overtly insist that they are demons, but there are elements that demand we at least compare demons with the aliens, given the religious context.

It's a shame we don't have M. Night here to weigh in on this.

[zY|]

The fuck happened to Eire? That dude showed up, posted like a thousand times in a week, and then disappeared.

He just wanted to be immortalized in your sig.

[Luke]

I want to see all of those but Everest is first on the list. Then probably Black Mass.

We should both go see Everest this weekend and report back

[Luke]

Conclusion

I think a strong case can be made for the demon theory. There is definitely some good evidence to suggest that M. Night had a few tricks up his sleeve with this script and there's a hidden narrative within the main story. The detracting evidence, however, is strong I think. While less voluminous than the supporting evidence, it nonetheless punches some pretty big logical holes into the demonic interpretation. (Although one could argue that demons are masters of deception.)

One thing that is definitely true is that the demon theory allows you to resolve certain narrative problems like, "Why would the demons come down without protective suits on?" and "Really? WATER?!"

Personally, I think that one's own openness to the theory will depend on how much weight you place on certain factors. If you just can't get over the detracting evidence, then that's understandable. On the other hand, if you find the supporting evidence to be strong enough that you clearly feel like Shyamalan is trying to say SOMETHING that's not obvious on the surface, then I can definitely understand that as well.

For me, I think the movie works (albeit imperfectly) as a film about an alien invasion. I also think it works (albeit imperfectly) as a movie about demonic forces at work. And I know that I'll never be able to watch it again without interpreting it on both levels, regardless of what the director intended. Though I will say this: If the theory is correct, and M. Night intentionally encoded this hidden story-within-a-story in the movie, knowing that only a few would ever see this hidden meaning, then he is a GENIUS and Signs stands as an even better movie that I previously gave it credit for.

Jesus H, did you write all those posts or get them from somewhere else? If you wrote them, you should be writing on your own movie website. Well done(if thats the case).


Anyway, I think you can make an arguement for demons or aliens, its according to your mindeset and what "you" see in the movie. I have to admit, I havent seen the movie in 10 years either. I think the biggest arguemebt for demons is the Bo and the water. Its almost like shes the holy one who was put there to protect everyone.

The fact they call them aliens, they come from the sky, and they are doing things to protect themselves from aliens gives the arguement they are acutally aliens and they are just putting faith in god to protect them

I would have to watch the movie again to give a better opinion, but don't think there "needs" to be a definte answer to what they are. The fact people talk about it still is good enough for the film makers, imo

good post




edmann

[SPX]

A lot of good movies coming out this week: Pawn Sacrifice , Black Mass, Everest, and Sicario. Will definitely hit up the theater this weekend. Probably gonna watch Everest or Black Mass

I want to see all of those but Everest is first on the list. Then probably Black Mass.

[zY|]

The demon theory is an interesting fan theory, but it seems like just that: a fan theory. To me, it is nothing more than an attempt to explain away the parts of the movie that don't make sense and try to ascribe a deeper meaning to something that doesn't exist.

Two things:

1. I don't think M Night is that clever. He's a guy who writes a good, entertaining thriller and likes to shock people with a twist, but he's essentially a one-trick pony whose trick worked so well one time that it defined his career and he's been chasing it ever since. All of the 'evidence' for the demon theory reads like <insert your favorite conspiracy theory here>. That is, they are either red herrings, or attempts at over-explaining plot minutia.

Why is Bo special? Is she? Maybe she's just meant to be creepy and weird. This is M Night Shymalan after all. And both of the kids are pretty damn weird, to be honest. Why don't the alien craft show up on radar? Maybe because they're technologically advanced enough to invade another planet. Three cities from the Middle East? Ok, sure, but it's just a throw-away line reinforcing the theme of faith. Maybe this film was hamstrung in production and the story was changed or cuts were made. It is under 2 hours, after all. The point is none of this is very compelling, and I'm not going to make huge logical leaps and read into something that isn't there.

2. The overarching theme of faith you mentioned is fairly obvious, and not particularly disputable. If you did, however, somehow gloss over it while watching, your overall enjoyment of the film would not be adversely affected too considerably.

This is the complete opposite of the demon theory. Most great films with underlying meanings stand as good to great films on their own, even without comprehension of deeper implications. If the demon theory is to be believed, then M Night is living and dying by his "water twist", which is ultimately my main problem with this theory. If your intention is to craft a film that relies so intensely upon an esoteric metaphor that overlooking it relegates your film from 'genius' all the way down to recycle bin status, and your skill at conveying this metaphor is so inept or subtle that the vast majority of your viewing audience miss it, then I'm sorry, but you have failed.

But I don't think that's the case here. Occam's Razor. No hidden masterpiece, just an OK idea that was never fully fleshed out, some shaky writing, and probably some unfortunate edit cuts.

[Luke]

A lot of good movies coming out this week: Pawn Sacrifice , Black Mass, Everest, and Sicario. Will definitely hit up the theater this weekend. Probably gonna watch Everest or Black Mass

[Luke]

Went and saw The Visit. 7/10

Good but not great. Kind of slow to ramp up and really get going, but overall I enjoyed it.

Had some good moments of humor and moments of suspense.

I wondered how that was. The trailer looked okay to me, but rotten tomatoes rated it decent. I'll check it out when it comes to blu ray

[SPX]

Conclusion

I think a strong case can be made for the demon theory. There is definitely some good evidence to suggest that M. Night had a few tricks up his sleeve with this script and there's a hidden narrative within the main story. The detracting evidence, however, is strong I think. While less voluminous than the supporting evidence, it nonetheless punches some pretty big logical holes into the demonic interpretation. (Although one could argue that demons are masters of deception.)

One thing that is definitely true is that the demon theory allows you to resolve certain narrative problems like, "Why would the demons come down without protective suits on?" and "Really? WATER?!"

Personally, I think that one's own openness to the theory will depend on how much weight you place on certain factors. If you just can't get over the detracting evidence, then that's understandable. On the other hand, if you find the supporting evidence to be strong enough that you clearly feel like Shyamalan is trying to say SOMETHING that's not obvious on the surface, then I can definitely understand that as well.

For me, I think the movie works (albeit imperfectly) as a film about an alien invasion. I also think it works (albeit imperfectly) as a movie about demonic forces at work. And I know that I'll never be able to watch it again without interpreting it on both levels, regardless of what the director intended. Though I will say this: If the theory is correct, and M. Night intentionally encoded this hidden story-within-a-story in the movie, knowing that only a few would ever see this hidden meaning, then he is a GENIUS and Signs stands as an even better movie that I previously gave it credit for.